Allegheny2-6-6-6 "Mix my paint and thin with alcohol.....paint starts shooting like silly string" I had to come and add this, I was in my shop shooting some walls for a structure and it hit me what you said about adding alcohol. Why? your using acrylic paints so all you can add is water. The Alcohol will evaporate way too fast and may even possible react with the paint.
"Mix my paint and thin with alcohol.....paint starts shooting like silly string"
I had to come and add this, I was in my shop shooting some walls for a structure and it hit me what you said about adding alcohol. Why? your using acrylic paints so all you can add is water. The Alcohol will evaporate way too fast and may even possible react with the paint.
My reasoning for using alcohol was....the water caused the paint to run, and I knew that alcohol would evaporate much faster so maybe the paint wouldn't run. I had no idea you aren't supposed to thin acrylics with alcohol.....
In regards to thinning....2 different theories have been proposed. One respondent said "70% paint and 30% water"....and the other said "33.3% paint and 66.6% water".....leaving me just as confused.
I really appreciate all of the advice and answers provided thus far....and I hope others are learning from this discussion as well.
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
Make sure that there are no pinches in the air line please----it becomes very frustrating when it comes out in spatters/sputters----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
First off relax we all make mistakes, you did the msart thing by using water based paints. If you caught your runs/mistakes early enough all you needed to do was wipe the tank off with a wet cloth and then dry it.
I am not sure what method you are using to mix your paint but I have a sure fired tried & true way of doing it. After using an airbrush professionally for over thirty years you pick up a few tips along the way.
Go to Radiop Shack or any science supply website and get yourself an electronic balance aka digital scale. Also go to AC Moore or Micheals crafts and get yourself soem 1oz. glass bottles for your mixed paints. I also like to use one of those cheapy battery operated paint mixers Micromark sells to mix up my water acrylics. Ok now your set to go, place your empty bottle on the balance and tear it. By this I mean you will zero out the scale subtracting the weight of the glass bottle. So the only thing appearing on the readout will be the actual weight of the paint and the water. Lets just say your mixing at a 3 to 1 ratio you pour in .33oz of paint and then the rest water.Depending on how accurate of a balance you get 3 or 4 place aka number of digits. Your looking to put in 33.3% paint and 66.6 % water. Yes this is not eaxctly 100% but like I said depending on weather or not you feel like spending about $2500 or $50 you get a 3 place as opposed to a 4 place balance.
When you mix paint by weight rather then by volume you get the exact same mix every time. This is critical to flow or viscosity as well as coverage, and color matching. Acrylics are very forgiving when it comes to color matching but as you get better with your air brush you'll want to expand on to solvent based paints.
Ok you have your paint all mixed correctly now put that bottle on to your air brush and dial the regualtor down to about 20 psi. Now spray the color on to a test piece of soe kind. even a cardboard box will do. All your trying to do is see your spray pattern, color, coverage, flow etc. You may need to make adjustments at this time to your air pressure, needle or nozzle to adj. your flow and fan size.
Make sure what ever your spraying is wiped clean and free of all dirt and contamenants. I like using tak cloths or tak rags. but you can use Isopropyal Alchohol with two clean cotton or old T shirts rags. No paper towels as they leave fibers behind. Cotton works the best. One rag to apply the cleaner the other to wipe it off taking all grease, poils etc. off your subject. Your now ready to paint. Start or push the trigger on the air brush while NOT on the subject you do the same when stopping or releasing the trigger. This prevents blotching or splattering . Nice even flowing strokes back and forth, I alway wear latex gloves when I paint and some times you will need to move a subject or piece but I recomend you let things dry before you change the position of pieces.
Testors has a video out that is kinda basic but it will give you a good foundation to learn. I do suggest that you go to your LHS or yard sales and pick up a slew of thos eold cheapy dollar pieces of rolling stock. You know the old horn hook around the Christmas tree "toy" train cars. Use them to practice your air brushing in stead of a nice $45.00 Intermountain or KD box car. Trust me you will constantly be honing your skills once you've over come your fear of the air brush. It's one of the best ools you'll own. I have a big collection of those freight cars and old non working engines and shells. Some with some really nice weathering and paint jobs on them and some that look like science experiments gone wrong
Hope this helps
I had to come and add this, I was in my shop shooting some walls for a structure and it hit me what you said about adding alcohol. Why? your using acrylic paints so all you can add is water. The Alcohol will evaporate way too fast and may even possible react with the paint. All I have ever done is mix it as discribed above and for clean up just keep a bottle of clean water near by. When your done shooting imedately switch bottles and shoot straight water through the airbrush until nothing but water comes out. I do a complete cleaning on my acrylic air brushes about once a month.
RangeroverAnother problem is beginners don't PRACTICE for even an hour and wind up ruining a project.
Rangerover,
This also adds to my frustration...I did practice with the paint before shooting it on the project. I used a piece of white foamcore board to see how the tip was adjusted and to make sure I was not getting runs by having the tip too close to the board, etc. I had a good mist of paint coming out of the gun, kept the tip moving and I then decided to shoot the project.
That's when the silly string effect started coming out of the gun. I rinsed off the paint really quick, dried the project and figured the paint was too thick. Added more thinner, then the blobs started appearing as if I was shooting wallboard texture.
I will try again with the #5 tip and see if I can get better results.....
Two more things Don. Are you straining your paint and turning your air pressure up? I run a little higher than others do. About 40psi for acrylics.
Don Z,
I'm an airbrush genius.....I've never attempted to take mine out of the box. But one of these days........
loathar Right, 50 cents for Wally World craft paint.( Anitas, Apple Barrel, etc...) That's what I use on my structures. I don't really have the problems you described when using Polly Scale. I have to thin Badger modelflex a little bit or I have problems. A #5 should work better for larger areas and water based paint. I really do a good clean up after I use acrylics. I usually soak the tips and caps in Goo Gone and use a pipe cleaner. (or even a can of spray carb cleaner) Oil based is just such a no brainer compared to acrylics, but if your like me and don't have a Floquil store near by, you make do with what's available.
Right, 50 cents for Wally World craft paint.( Anitas, Apple Barrel, etc...) That's what I use on my structures. I don't really have the problems you described when using Polly Scale. I have to thin Badger modelflex a little bit or I have problems. A #5 should work better for larger areas and water based paint. I really do a good clean up after I use acrylics. I usually soak the tips and caps in Goo Gone and use a pipe cleaner. (or even a can of spray carb cleaner)
Oil based is just such a no brainer compared to acrylics, but if your like me and don't have a Floquil store near by, you make do with what's available.
Me too! I do believe the biggest problem with air brush's is that new people who pick up an air brush get frustrated with mixing and not using the proper needle and tip. You can't push water base acrylics through a Paasche #1 needle and tip, a #3 or even a #5 for heavier pigment paints is what you must use to achieve desired results and practice on a piece of cardboard to see if the paint is mixed properly and strained, especially acrylics. Make sure you have sufficient air pressure and the line dyrer is empty and do not use the in line oilers when spray painting or even the same hose oil has been used to lube your air power tools. Some of these paints don't like to be mixed with anything not recommended by the manufacturer.
Another problem is beginners don't PRACTICE for even an hour and wind up ruining a project. It takes practice and experience and sometimes a lot of patience to paint with an airbrush. I guess I'm lucky I learned many years ago, back in the 50's, my dad was a painter and used the airbrush's, Paasche, to paint goldleaf lettering on firetrucks, police cars and ambulances. LOL, they didn't have decals for that back then like today. I still have and use my dad's old Paasche, single action. I also have picked up new in the past 10 years the Paasche VLS double action and one of the Paasche pro's that will paint a hair thin line. Needless to say yeah even I practiced with the new Paasche double action brush's on intermittent days for an hour or so to get used to the brush.
Some guys also don't like to clean up after use. These airbrush's need to be cleaned immediately after use. I only run water through them, if using acrylics, only if I'm changing color. when I'm completely done I strip it down and clean it and it only takes about 5 minutes with the help of an old tooth brush and a pipe cleaner.
loatharAre you using a #3 tip? (or #5 for larger projects)
I was using the #3 tip in my airbrush. I do have the #5 tip...do you think that would give me better results? 50 cents for paint? Are you referring to the acrylic paint? Pollyscale and Floquil run about $5.00 for a 2 ounce bottle at the LHS.
Driline As a noobie I would use oil base paints like floquil first before you attempt to use waterbase. Oil base thinned with 50% laquer thinner works best. I only use Pollyscale paint when I use acrylic water base. It takes alot more time and practice to use water base.
As a noobie I would use oil base paints like floquil first before you attempt to use waterbase. Oil base thinned with 50% laquer thinner works best. I only use Pollyscale paint when I use acrylic water base. It takes alot more time and practice to use water base.
If your spraying something large like that tank, oil based is a better bet. It just flows and covers easier. I have fair luck using artist acrylics on structures. Usually have to do 2-3 coats cause it goes on pretty thin. I know what you mean about the texture and silly string effect.Are you using a #3 tip? (or #5 for larger projects) It can be frustrating, but consider the cost of the paint. 50 cents local compared to $5 + S&H if you don't have an LHS. I'd never using acrylics to do an engine or rolling stock. Just structures. Stll helps to use some type of cheap primer too.
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
Oil base works great, too. But use a good primer as the solvents may attack raw plastic. And use a good ventilation system.
First, you gotta use water..........
70 percent is paint. 30 percent is water. You're the math whiz....My bottles are all marked with a line for water and a line for paint/water mix. And frankly, I mix large batches of the stuff I use the most, like the custom green for the SP coaches. When I do that, I measure in eye dropper drops....70 drops and 30 drops. For smaller batches, how about 35 drops of paint and 15 drops of water? Or any other multiplier? Slow and tedious, but hey, it's better than getting an ear beating when my wife finds the teaspoon is messed up. A lot of my stuff is done by "old locomotive engineer eye", so like my great grandma's molasses cookie recipe, I couldn't tell you anything but an approximation. Sometimes you just gotta "thin to taste"....
The regulator setting is fine.
Another tip: remember that the paint mixture is just an approximation. Adjust it according to how the paint flows out of the brush, etc. Use old foam core board to test the color, consistency and flow. Also, as you have already done, buy an espresso mixer at IKEA for about two bucks (the silver handled cheapo one) and remove the spring on the tip. Then use what's left to mix the raw paint in the jar, so that all the pigment is held in suspension. Once the raw paint is mixed, make your water/paint mixture in a clean bottle and use the mixer again. Let it rest for about 30 seconds and remix every two or three minutes.
Remember, water..............
4merroad4man Thin the paint 70-30 with distilled water.
This is the stuff that drives me crazy....does that mean 70% of the mixture is paint or water? How do I tell how much water to put in if I'm measuring the paint in drops?
My regulator was set to show about 30psi while the air was flowing through the airbrush.
That is what I needed to see---tnx for that info!!
Don,
Do not thin water-based paint with anything but.....water! Alcohol immediately begins to set the paint up inside the air brush. Did the airbrush clean up okay? I ask this because a layer of dried or rubbery paint may exist inside the thing.
First rule....do not use the type of acrylic you mentioned earlier in the week. Use PollyScale White and PollyScale Rock Island Blue to get the shade you desire. Thin the paint 70-30 with distilled water. Set the compressor pressure in the 30-34 pound range, keep the brush around 8 to 12 inches away, depending on the air/paint mix and constantly in motion. Use a minimum of three VERY light coats.
Acrylic artists' or craft paints are much too thick out of the tube or bottle, and when thinned with alcohol, react just as violently as any other water based product.
If you like, give me the tank and I will go ahead and see what I can do with it, or hold a little one on one clinic. Or, I believe there is a Kalmbach book on airbrush painting.
The only air brushing video I ever seen was one I picked up in a speed shop and I STILL could not quite get the hang of it. I think someone has to be a visual learner to master the thing via videos/DVD's. Some of us have to slog it through-----in the meantime I'm hacking up some 1 1/2" ABS and just going mad at it----
Okay, I give up, I quit, I'll never touch another airbrush again......if it's not molded in the correct color, it will just have to do as is.
All I wanted to do was paint a styrene tank to look like this water tank...
I mixed white paint (acrylic) into the blue paint (acrylic) to get the shade correct, then thinned the paint with distilled water so I could spray the mixture through my Paasche H airbrush. First attempt - too thin, runs everywhere...add more paint, then it's too thick to spray. Sand off the runs with 800 grit paper and try again today. Mix my paint and thin with alcohol.....paint starts shooting like silly string, then looks like drywall mud being sprayed for texturing a wall......looks like anything but a smooth layer of paint.
So, to all of you who paint successfully with an airbrush....
Can anyone recommend a book or video to help me learn how to tame the beast known as my airbrush?
Thanks,