Okay, I give up, I quit, I'll never touch another airbrush again......if it's not molded in the correct color, it will just have to do as is.
All I wanted to do was paint a styrene tank to look like this water tank...
I mixed white paint (acrylic) into the blue paint (acrylic) to get the shade correct, then thinned the paint with distilled water so I could spray the mixture through my Paasche H airbrush. First attempt - too thin, runs everywhere...add more paint, then it's too thick to spray. Sand off the runs with 800 grit paper and try again today. Mix my paint and thin with alcohol.....paint starts shooting like silly string, then looks like drywall mud being sprayed for texturing a wall......looks like anything but a smooth layer of paint.
So, to all of you who paint successfully with an airbrush....
Can anyone recommend a book or video to help me learn how to tame the beast known as my airbrush?
Thanks,
Don Z.
Research; it's not just for geeks.
The only air brushing video I ever seen was one I picked up in a speed shop and I STILL could not quite get the hang of it. I think someone has to be a visual learner to master the thing via videos/DVD's. Some of us have to slog it through-----in the meantime I'm hacking up some 1 1/2" ABS and just going mad at it----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Don,
Do not thin water-based paint with anything but.....water! Alcohol immediately begins to set the paint up inside the air brush. Did the airbrush clean up okay? I ask this because a layer of dried or rubbery paint may exist inside the thing.
First rule....do not use the type of acrylic you mentioned earlier in the week. Use PollyScale White and PollyScale Rock Island Blue to get the shade you desire. Thin the paint 70-30 with distilled water. Set the compressor pressure in the 30-34 pound range, keep the brush around 8 to 12 inches away, depending on the air/paint mix and constantly in motion. Use a minimum of three VERY light coats.
Acrylic artists' or craft paints are much too thick out of the tube or bottle, and when thinned with alcohol, react just as violently as any other water based product.
If you like, give me the tank and I will go ahead and see what I can do with it, or hold a little one on one clinic. Or, I believe there is a Kalmbach book on airbrush painting.
That is what I needed to see---tnx for that info!!
4merroad4man Thin the paint 70-30 with distilled water.
This is the stuff that drives me crazy....does that mean 70% of the mixture is paint or water? How do I tell how much water to put in if I'm measuring the paint in drops?
My regulator was set to show about 30psi while the air was flowing through the airbrush.
First, you gotta use water..........
70 percent is paint. 30 percent is water. You're the math whiz....My bottles are all marked with a line for water and a line for paint/water mix. And frankly, I mix large batches of the stuff I use the most, like the custom green for the SP coaches. When I do that, I measure in eye dropper drops....70 drops and 30 drops. For smaller batches, how about 35 drops of paint and 15 drops of water? Or any other multiplier? Slow and tedious, but hey, it's better than getting an ear beating when my wife finds the teaspoon is messed up. A lot of my stuff is done by "old locomotive engineer eye", so like my great grandma's molasses cookie recipe, I couldn't tell you anything but an approximation. Sometimes you just gotta "thin to taste"....
The regulator setting is fine.
Another tip: remember that the paint mixture is just an approximation. Adjust it according to how the paint flows out of the brush, etc. Use old foam core board to test the color, consistency and flow. Also, as you have already done, buy an espresso mixer at IKEA for about two bucks (the silver handled cheapo one) and remove the spring on the tip. Then use what's left to mix the raw paint in the jar, so that all the pigment is held in suspension. Once the raw paint is mixed, make your water/paint mixture in a clean bottle and use the mixer again. Let it rest for about 30 seconds and remix every two or three minutes.
Remember, water..............
As a noobie I would use oil base paints like floquil first before you attempt to use waterbase. Oil base thinned with 50% laquer thinner works best. I only use Pollyscale paint when I use acrylic water base. It takes alot more time and practice to use water base.
Oil base works great, too. But use a good primer as the solvents may attack raw plastic. And use a good ventilation system.
~G4
19 Years old, modeling the Cowlitz, Chehalis, and Cascade Railroad of Western Washington in 1927 in 6X6 feet.
Driline As a noobie I would use oil base paints like floquil first before you attempt to use waterbase. Oil base thinned with 50% laquer thinner works best. I only use Pollyscale paint when I use acrylic water base. It takes alot more time and practice to use water base.
If your spraying something large like that tank, oil based is a better bet. It just flows and covers easier. I have fair luck using artist acrylics on structures. Usually have to do 2-3 coats cause it goes on pretty thin. I know what you mean about the texture and silly string effect.Are you using a #3 tip? (or #5 for larger projects) It can be frustrating, but consider the cost of the paint. 50 cents local compared to $5 + S&H if you don't have an LHS. I'd never using acrylics to do an engine or rolling stock. Just structures. Stll helps to use some type of cheap primer too.
loatharAre you using a #3 tip? (or #5 for larger projects)
I was using the #3 tip in my airbrush. I do have the #5 tip...do you think that would give me better results? 50 cents for paint? Are you referring to the acrylic paint? Pollyscale and Floquil run about $5.00 for a 2 ounce bottle at the LHS.
Right, 50 cents for Wally World craft paint.( Anitas, Apple Barrel, etc...) That's what I use on my structures. I don't really have the problems you described when using Polly Scale. I have to thin Badger modelflex a little bit or I have problems. A #5 should work better for larger areas and water based paint. I really do a good clean up after I use acrylics. I usually soak the tips and caps in Goo Gone and use a pipe cleaner. (or even a can of spray carb cleaner)
Oil based is just such a no brainer compared to acrylics, but if your like me and don't have a Floquil store near by, you make do with what's available.
loathar Right, 50 cents for Wally World craft paint.( Anitas, Apple Barrel, etc...) That's what I use on my structures. I don't really have the problems you described when using Polly Scale. I have to thin Badger modelflex a little bit or I have problems. A #5 should work better for larger areas and water based paint. I really do a good clean up after I use acrylics. I usually soak the tips and caps in Goo Gone and use a pipe cleaner. (or even a can of spray carb cleaner) Oil based is just such a no brainer compared to acrylics, but if your like me and don't have a Floquil store near by, you make do with what's available.
Me too! I do believe the biggest problem with air brush's is that new people who pick up an air brush get frustrated with mixing and not using the proper needle and tip. You can't push water base acrylics through a Paasche #1 needle and tip, a #3 or even a #5 for heavier pigment paints is what you must use to achieve desired results and practice on a piece of cardboard to see if the paint is mixed properly and strained, especially acrylics. Make sure you have sufficient air pressure and the line dyrer is empty and do not use the in line oilers when spray painting or even the same hose oil has been used to lube your air power tools. Some of these paints don't like to be mixed with anything not recommended by the manufacturer.
Another problem is beginners don't PRACTICE for even an hour and wind up ruining a project. It takes practice and experience and sometimes a lot of patience to paint with an airbrush. I guess I'm lucky I learned many years ago, back in the 50's, my dad was a painter and used the airbrush's, Paasche, to paint goldleaf lettering on firetrucks, police cars and ambulances. LOL, they didn't have decals for that back then like today. I still have and use my dad's old Paasche, single action. I also have picked up new in the past 10 years the Paasche VLS double action and one of the Paasche pro's that will paint a hair thin line. Needless to say yeah even I practiced with the new Paasche double action brush's on intermittent days for an hour or so to get used to the brush.
Some guys also don't like to clean up after use. These airbrush's need to be cleaned immediately after use. I only run water through them, if using acrylics, only if I'm changing color. when I'm completely done I strip it down and clean it and it only takes about 5 minutes with the help of an old tooth brush and a pipe cleaner.
Don Z,
I'm an airbrush genius.....I've never attempted to take mine out of the box. But one of these days........
Two more things Don. Are you straining your paint and turning your air pressure up? I run a little higher than others do. About 40psi for acrylics.
RangeroverAnother problem is beginners don't PRACTICE for even an hour and wind up ruining a project.
Rangerover,
This also adds to my frustration...I did practice with the paint before shooting it on the project. I used a piece of white foamcore board to see how the tip was adjusted and to make sure I was not getting runs by having the tip too close to the board, etc. I had a good mist of paint coming out of the gun, kept the tip moving and I then decided to shoot the project.
That's when the silly string effect started coming out of the gun. I rinsed off the paint really quick, dried the project and figured the paint was too thick. Added more thinner, then the blobs started appearing as if I was shooting wallboard texture.
I will try again with the #5 tip and see if I can get better results.....
First off relax we all make mistakes, you did the msart thing by using water based paints. If you caught your runs/mistakes early enough all you needed to do was wipe the tank off with a wet cloth and then dry it.
I am not sure what method you are using to mix your paint but I have a sure fired tried & true way of doing it. After using an airbrush professionally for over thirty years you pick up a few tips along the way.
Go to Radiop Shack or any science supply website and get yourself an electronic balance aka digital scale. Also go to AC Moore or Micheals crafts and get yourself soem 1oz. glass bottles for your mixed paints. I also like to use one of those cheapy battery operated paint mixers Micromark sells to mix up my water acrylics. Ok now your set to go, place your empty bottle on the balance and tear it. By this I mean you will zero out the scale subtracting the weight of the glass bottle. So the only thing appearing on the readout will be the actual weight of the paint and the water. Lets just say your mixing at a 3 to 1 ratio you pour in .33oz of paint and then the rest water.Depending on how accurate of a balance you get 3 or 4 place aka number of digits. Your looking to put in 33.3% paint and 66.6 % water. Yes this is not eaxctly 100% but like I said depending on weather or not you feel like spending about $2500 or $50 you get a 3 place as opposed to a 4 place balance.
When you mix paint by weight rather then by volume you get the exact same mix every time. This is critical to flow or viscosity as well as coverage, and color matching. Acrylics are very forgiving when it comes to color matching but as you get better with your air brush you'll want to expand on to solvent based paints.
Ok you have your paint all mixed correctly now put that bottle on to your air brush and dial the regualtor down to about 20 psi. Now spray the color on to a test piece of soe kind. even a cardboard box will do. All your trying to do is see your spray pattern, color, coverage, flow etc. You may need to make adjustments at this time to your air pressure, needle or nozzle to adj. your flow and fan size.
Make sure what ever your spraying is wiped clean and free of all dirt and contamenants. I like using tak cloths or tak rags. but you can use Isopropyal Alchohol with two clean cotton or old T shirts rags. No paper towels as they leave fibers behind. Cotton works the best. One rag to apply the cleaner the other to wipe it off taking all grease, poils etc. off your subject. Your now ready to paint. Start or push the trigger on the air brush while NOT on the subject you do the same when stopping or releasing the trigger. This prevents blotching or splattering . Nice even flowing strokes back and forth, I alway wear latex gloves when I paint and some times you will need to move a subject or piece but I recomend you let things dry before you change the position of pieces.
Testors has a video out that is kinda basic but it will give you a good foundation to learn. I do suggest that you go to your LHS or yard sales and pick up a slew of thos eold cheapy dollar pieces of rolling stock. You know the old horn hook around the Christmas tree "toy" train cars. Use them to practice your air brushing in stead of a nice $45.00 Intermountain or KD box car. Trust me you will constantly be honing your skills once you've over come your fear of the air brush. It's one of the best ools you'll own. I have a big collection of those freight cars and old non working engines and shells. Some with some really nice weathering and paint jobs on them and some that look like science experiments gone wrong
Hope this helps
"Mix my paint and thin with alcohol.....paint starts shooting like silly string"
I had to come and add this, I was in my shop shooting some walls for a structure and it hit me what you said about adding alcohol. Why? your using acrylic paints so all you can add is water. The Alcohol will evaporate way too fast and may even possible react with the paint. All I have ever done is mix it as discribed above and for clean up just keep a bottle of clean water near by. When your done shooting imedately switch bottles and shoot straight water through the airbrush until nothing but water comes out. I do a complete cleaning on my acrylic air brushes about once a month.
Make sure that there are no pinches in the air line please----it becomes very frustrating when it comes out in spatters/sputters----
Allegheny2-6-6-6 "Mix my paint and thin with alcohol.....paint starts shooting like silly string" I had to come and add this, I was in my shop shooting some walls for a structure and it hit me what you said about adding alcohol. Why? your using acrylic paints so all you can add is water. The Alcohol will evaporate way too fast and may even possible react with the paint.
I had to come and add this, I was in my shop shooting some walls for a structure and it hit me what you said about adding alcohol. Why? your using acrylic paints so all you can add is water. The Alcohol will evaporate way too fast and may even possible react with the paint.
My reasoning for using alcohol was....the water caused the paint to run, and I knew that alcohol would evaporate much faster so maybe the paint wouldn't run. I had no idea you aren't supposed to thin acrylics with alcohol.....
In regards to thinning....2 different theories have been proposed. One respondent said "70% paint and 30% water"....and the other said "33.3% paint and 66.6% water".....leaving me just as confused.
I really appreciate all of the advice and answers provided thus far....and I hope others are learning from this discussion as well.
All these mixing ratios are a good place to start from, but I've never opened 2 bottles of Polyscale in a row and found exactly the same paint thickness in each bottle. What's more important is the final result of thinning and for any water-based acrylics and a #3 (medium) airbrush tip you want to end up with a paint consistency of 2% milk. You should be able to shoot that with an air pressure of 25 to 35 psi, I'm usually right around 30 psi. Anything higher and you risk getting a "sandpaper finish" as the paint tends to dry before hitting the subject. The lower your air pressure the less overspray there is and the less paint you use/waste.
With acrylic paint ratios, the lower number is the thinner. With PS thinner is usually between 25 - 35%. Modelflex often doesn't require any thinner and if it does, no more than 10%. With oils, thinner is usually more like 50/50 to paint.
You must screen or strain your paint once it is thinned, I use discarded nylon stockings. No matter how careful you are, every time you open a bottle some of the dried paint in the cap will fall down into the paint. Strain, Strain, Strain.
Isopropl alcohol shouldn't be used for thinning by noobes, it has it's uses in special situations, as you get comfortable with your airbrush you can experiment with using alcohol.. You can however, add a drop or two as a wetting agent to help cut surface tention and help the paint from beading up and help get it to flow into corners and crevices, (you can also use a small drop of dish detergent instead for this purpose).
Paasche has a good beginners guide and paracticing tips in their owner's manuals. It takes a good 10 to 20 hours of practice to get competent with an airbrush, so, Practice, Practice, Practice.
Jay, custom painting (for a living) since 1989.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
modelmaker51 All these mixing ratios are a good place to start from, but I've never opened 2 bottles of Polyscale in a row and found exactly the same paint thickness in each bottle. What's more important is the final result of thinning and for any water-based acrylics and a #3 (medium) airbrush tip you want to end up with a paint consistency of 2% milk. You should be able to shoot that with an air pressure of 25 to 35 psi, I'm usually right around 30 psi. Anything higher and you risk getting a "sandpaper finish" as the paint tends to dry before hitting the subject. The lower your air pressure the less overspray there is and the less paint you use/waste.
Jay,
Thanks for the information...regarding use/waste of paint: How do you determine how much paint to mix in order to paint the project at hand? For example, this is the item I'm trying to paint:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3168
One tank, 6" diameter and 6.25" tall. It seems like there will be a lot of paint being wasted until I get the hang of using the airbrush.....will it take 1/2 ounce of paint and who knows how much water to get the paint to the correct consistency? These ratios are going to make me lose my mind....
Well, here's more confusion...several people here have told me to not use alcohol as a thinner. I just watched the newest episode of Cody's Office where he shows how to airbrush. Guess what he used to thin his Pollyscale paint.....70% alcohol! He is gearing this airbrush seminar towards us newbies.....do you experienced airbrush painters stand by your advice to avoid the alcohol for thinning acrylic paints?
Don ZWell, here's more confusion...several people here have told me to not use alcohol as a thinner. I just watched the newest episode of Cody's Office where he shows how to airbrush. Guess what he used to thin his Pollyscale paint.....70% alcohol! He is gearing this airbrush seminar towards us newbies.....do you experienced airbrush painters stand by your advice to avoid the alcohol for thinning acrylic paints? Don Z.
100% stay away from the alcohol, as I mentioned I've been using an airbrush for over 39 years and have never seen the need to use anything other then water when applying acrylics. After all that how you thinned the paint in the first place? Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but trying to adjust the mixture ratio of your paint once you've started spraying is like trying to put the Genie back in the bottle. I have always simply followed the direction from the manufacture regardless of what type of paint I am spraying. I use some pearls and candy colrs that are well over $100 a quart so believe me the chemist who came up with the formula knows a heck of a lot more about that paint then I do, same with acrylic model paints.
All it takes is lots of practice, your not going to get good in one or two shootings. If you do it's just dumb luck.One way of controlling an airbrush you might want to try is simply by moving it closer or farther away from the subject. Just get yourself a note book in the dollar store and make a journal of mixing ratios, air pressure settings etc. It will prove to be invaluable in the future. I happen to like acrylics for several reasons. If you screw up just wipe it off fast with hot water and your good to go. I also like how it has a semi or almost flat finish. You don't want a glossy or high gloss finish on anything in model railroading. Even when custom painting a bike tank or a set of ghost flames on a hot rod you get all your get all your gloss form the top coat or clear coat when using an airbrush. All your looking for is nice even consistent coats, no runs no drips no errors after all your more then likely going to weather it and hit it with dull coat by the time your finished with it.
Good luck and practice practice practice
Alcohol-What I do is mix up a bottle of thinner. 70% water/30% alcohol and use this to thin my paint. Seems to help break the surface tension like with scenic cement. If you add the alcohol straight to the paint it causes it to separate and chunk up. Some people use Windex in some dilution to thin their acrylics, but I never saw the sense in adding a soap-like substance to my paint. The alcohol seems to help with drying and runs too.
Loathar,
I think I'm going to stay away from using alcohol with acrylic paint. My goal for this week is to fire up the compressor, mix up a batch of paint and practice spraying on a sheet of white foamcore board until I get the hang of it. If I waste 4 or 5 bottles of paint on the journey, so be it. While researching this topic, I read of some people using windshield washer fluid to dilute acylic paints.....what don't they use??
Lacquer thinner!
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Phil,
Thanks for the information. I think the main reason I haven't ventured into using solvent based paints is because of the clean up process. Cleaning water based materials is just so much easier (to this uninitiated user) at this point. I'm amazed you can spray at such low pressure.....I've used MEK in the past while building aquariums, so I'm familiar with the material. I guess I now have a new method to test and practice with....
To be perfectly honest, if I were painting those tanks, I would just use some Krylon rattle can paint to paint them. Almond looks like a good color.
To get back to airbrushing.
Some of my basics: I use the paint cup rather than the bottles to paint loco and car size objects. The paint cup is easier to clean and is perfect if you're changing colors a lot, like when weathering. And it's only one thing to clean, instead of bottle, cap & siphon tube.
I use small 1/2oz and 1oz plastic cups to mix, thin and strain my paints. A free source is Mc Donalds little condiment cups, I usually grab a stack when I visit. The 1oz cups are sold at many hoppy shops, look in the glue section, they're also used to measure & mix epoxy. These are made of polyethelene so they also ok with solvents. Another source is Softco or restaurant/catering supplies stores, you can get 500 1oz cups for less than 3 or 4 bucks, you can find lids there too.
As I mentioned earlier and Lothar reiterated, I do use a little alcohol in my thinner. Using a PolyScale or ModelMaster acrylic thinner bottles, filled 70-80% water and the rest with alcohol. This formula aids in paint flow and cutting surface tension (static electricity sort of). The paint goes on easier and smoother and does not cause any issues with gumming or stringing or drying in the airbrush. We used to use a product from Kodak called PhotoFlow for the same purpose, but it's become harder to find with the advent of digital cameras.
As I also said earlier, the ratios of thinner to paint are just to get you in the ball park, what you're really after is a paint consistency of 2% milk. That's why I like the used up Paint thinner bottles, as you can more easily control how much thinner you add. Add some thinner, stir it in, then slosh it around and if it looks like 2%milk you're there, (in the beginning you might want to keep a little glass of milk handy to compare to), If not add a little more water and repeat, if too much add back a little more paint, etc. With some repition, you'll get nack of it. If you're using a paint jar/bottle, fill it about a third with paint. and to get a better feel for it, take a sharpie and divide the paint into thirds and mark another egual section above the paint, fill up to that mark with thinner and stir thoroughly and compare to the 2%milk, (you can use this method for any amount of paint until you can guage it by eye).Add small amounts of thinner or paint until the consistency is about the same as the milk.
With your air brush set at about 25 to 30 psi, hold the airbrush about 8 inches from the object and start spraying, moving back and forth, each pass for a six inch long object should take onethousandoneonethousandtwo. If the paint is puddling or running, turn down the paint flow on the airbrush (single action brush: turn the cone inward - towards you). If the paint is going on dry and flat, turn the paint flow up (turn the cone outward - away from you). Keep your hand/airbrush parallel to the object. the paint should look semi-shiny when it lands on the object, not too wet/not too dry. I know that's not very precise, but you'll get a feel for it the more you practice. It does take soem time to develope your own technique and you have to put the time in to get there, (10-20 hours to get decent)
Practice different distances from theobject and different paint flow and air pressure settings, but the above is a good place to start. I hope some of this is of use. Jay.
There are certain dos and don'ts that come into play with airbrushing; the very first is the type of tip, the pressure, the mix. Ensure that all are correct.
The second is that, as a practise, one should always prime plastic. Your buddy said not to? Hey, this isn't going on your buddy's layout, now is it? Listen to me here; I know from whence I cometh!
Priming sets up both a uniformity as well as "tooth" to the surface; and if you are priming, use an enamel-based primer-or a laquer-based one. You don't have to go bananas either; simply coat the model with a light to medium lay of primer, let it dry thoroughly, and then make sure ther eare no dog hairs, cat hairs, lumps bumps or clumps are clinging sneakily to places you will not like to see them being on a finish coat!
Mix your finish paint thoroughly, then strain it (old pantyhose works really good for this. my girlfriend is only too happy to donate hers) into your container. Next, ensure your pressure medium is clean, with no moisture, oil, etc, in it; also check your pressure. if it is too low, you will likely splatter the paint onto the surface. This really is not a good thing as it will most likely ruin your day.
Lastly, I will say that you should at least give a manual a cursory read, then PRACTISE, PRACTISE PRACTISE!!!!!
Yellowjacket EF-3