I was reading the latest MRR and saw an ad for a MTH HO N&W J class 4-8-4. It looks very nice.
But, there is nothing on MTH HO's site............
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
I would be willing to bet that it is VERY similar in appearance to the BLI J.
Hopefully it will be VERY similar in appearance to N&W 611, on display in Roanoke.
I'm a little surprised that the Forum's nasty-language checker didn't **** the second word in the thread title - or did we lose that 'feature' in the last upgrade? H0 is a model scale, frequently printed HO. The word above is used to describe someone the Vice Squad might want to interview...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - including an establishment where lonely men might find companionship...)
Thanks for the heads up Chuck! I'm going to change the o to an capital O!
Warning MTH loco's can't be programmed on DCC ecept for the adress. DCS programming works, but since there are basically two decoders inside the loco, it wont effect DCC operations.
It'll probably bleep it out if you try to use "***" meaning one who models in HO-Scale as aitch-oh-er. I got the word "Class" bleeped one time when I inadvertently left a space between the "l" and the "a".
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Actually, its Half Zero... But We don't call "O Scale" "Zero Scale." Way back in the day, gauges were numbered... Number 3 was the largest, Number 2 the second largest, Number 1 still exists (45mm guage track), and eventually number 0 came into the picture when smaller gauge trains were produced. Zero eventually fell out to "O," but if you want to be super picky it would be "Half Zero," or "H0."
Alex
I don't have the latest MR but if MTH does offer the N&W J, they are missing out on some great markets for other models that have not been produced recently. The C&O 4-8-4 would be a great model to have in die cast metal or plastic along with at least ten other 4-8-4's that have not been offered except in brass.
If MTH continues to produce models that have already been offered by BLI recently, it would seem there is something still going on between their companies and that leaves us with fewer choices if they both produced different models. MTH got the tooling for several models including the PCM Big Boy and many of the diesels from the lawsuit settlement. I would expect them to offer those models in the near future also.
Just a thought.
CA
CAZEPHYR ... If MTH continues to produce models that have already been offered by BLI recently, it would seem there is something still going on between their companies and that leaves us with fewer choices if they both produced different models. MTH got the tooling for several models including the PCM Big Boy and many of the diesels from the lawsuit settlement. I would expect them to offer those models in the near future also. Just a thought. CA
...
I don't see how there could be anything still going on between them...it's over. BLI had to cough up some settlement assets, and MTH is doing what it always does...marches on to its own drum. That includes taking advantage of the settlement. If nothing else, it should indicate just how well BLI's standards meets or exceeds MTH's...right?
BLI has gone on to their Paragon 2, and their hybrid models seem to have been generally well received. They have the usual quality control issues now and then, but generally they are good models.
I do think it would be really good for the various manufacturers to eschew the current trend toward rubber tires and get back to properly weighted, and metal diecast, engines where the drivers get the proper balancing and weight for tractive purposes. The trend, thankfully, is also leaning toward really good detailing, and that will never be a bad thing. If MTH leads the way, more power to them...somebody has to goad the others into progress.
-Crandell
Crandell
I own about forty five of BLI/PCM locomotives product and believe they are among the best for my money, no doubt. I have two of the N&W J's and A and Y6b, all with sound. I tend to sell of my older brass when a good die cast model or equivalent detailed model is available that runs well. I do this since most of the older brass will not work that well running DCC. The newer models pick up on both sides for most of the engine and tender and the old brass models do not work as well picking power up one side only for the locomotive and tender.
It seems to be an ongoing back burner type thing that is going on if indeed MTH is going to offer the J. I know they have offered the J and many other models in their O line so they might just be using the same basic drawings rescaled to save money. I am well aware of the settlement and would have hoped the PCM/ BLI GS4 was offered with the Daylight cars. They are working on it, but the market must be much smaller now that the MTH GS4 was offered recently. I also own the # 1 scale Daylight and the Challenger by MTH. This is not a for or against type of comment to one company since I own the DCS system also for the #1 scale.
If my money was risked to build a model, I would want a waiting market, not one that someone else had filled with some still available from Trainworld. It seems like the C&O Greenbiar would be a good choice since it ran more recently on trips out of New Jersey. There are so many of the great locomotives that have not been offered except in brass that I am surprised when more than one of the same locomotive is offered when either company makes a decent model. I only skipped the MTH GS4 since they used the same sized drivers for the GS4 and the GS6. The GS4 should have 80" drivers and the GS6 should have 73" drivers. MTH choose to use 77" for both. I have several brass models of the GS 4 series and I would not replace them with models that are not close to scale.
Certainly both companies must offer what they feel best and we the model train users must pick from what we think is best for us. My thought is many of the great locomotives have not been built and there is a good chance they would sell rather well. We have been asking for the DM&IR M3 or M4 along with the B&O EM1 constantly on most forums, but do we have them?? Lets hope both companies will continue to offer good products and we have the money to purchase them.
CZ
tomikawaTT I'm a little surprised that the Forum's nasty-language checker didn't **** the second word in the thread title - or did we lose that 'feature' in the last upgrade? H0 is a model scale, frequently printed HO. The word above is used to describe someone the Vice Squad might want to interview...
Great... Now we won't be able to describe the sound of Santa's laugh.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
In adddition to the N&W J coming MTH also had a HO UP 4-12-2 on display for 2009 release. ------------------------------------------------ Ken McCorry
I agree, we don't need another J on the market as it is well covered. like the Big Boy. I already own an older Bachmann J, duh, pancake motor!
If I ever buy an MTH engine most likely I will pull the decoder and put a standard DCC decoder in it.
But if they duplicate already produced models I prolly would not buy with a DCS decoder.
If they want to do the hobby some good dig in and make some off the regular path engines that will help vary the current rosters of equipment.
Owning 24 or so Big Boys is one thing, having a 4-10-2 or 4-12-2 would help expand someones roster.
I like the Triplex they did, just not my line (Virginian) or I would buy it.
This is prolly why I miss the MDC steam kits, mod the to your line.
CZ, I share your views about several things. I too have brass which I have not attempted to convert to DCC. The old motors pull too much current in some cases for existing decoders, the drive trains tend to be noisy, and the pickups are too sparse, all of which makes for either a lot of work or dissatisfaction. So I have bought a number of BLI's and P2K's to run. There are a few Bachmanns I like, but the drive systems seem underpowered. I have a few Trix and Athearn steam also, which seem fine once the cheesy decoders were swapped for Tsunamis.
The MTH/BLI settlement has me a little suspicious that there is more than meets the eye. MTH seems to be coming out with some engines which are echos of BLI's with their own decoders. Engines which BLI either stopped producing or may never produce, such as the GS-4. More worrisome to me is the fate of the BLI SP cars; they have been advertised by BLI forever, but the availability date keeps moving. Are they not being candid? If MTH gets out a reasonably prototype set, could it not KO both BLI's and Athearn's plans for SP? In theory, I think I'd rather have the BLI's because they might be better models, but we may never know. My impression is that MTH is in good financial shape, but BLI may not be.
And yes, I am also waiting for an M3 or EM1.
Hal
prolly an idea to switch the old brass motors with a modern can motor as they draw less and be as powerful.
But there should be a decoder out there to handle legions of current, they have to for O scale and large scale.
My guess is that in the future, we will see companies wait until they are pretty far along in the process before they officially announce an engine. I am still amazed as how much copying there is when a lot of desired engines have yet to be made. here is my list of engines that should be made:
DMIR Yellowstone, B&O EM1, UP 2-8-0, PRR H9 2-8-0, PRR L1 2-8-2, Milw Little Joe, Milw Bi-Polar, SRR Ps-4, SP 4-6-2, SP 2-8-2, Frisco 4-8-2, correct ATSF 2-10-4 (note that the Pennsy leased some these engines), UP 2-8-2.
Eric
Please forgive my ignorance. I remember:
MTH vs.QSI
MTH vs. Lionel
and was there a MTH vs. Williams.
When was there a "MTH vs. BLI"?
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Guilford Guy Actually, its Half Zero... But We don't call "O Scale" "Zero Scale." Way back in the day, gauges were numbered... Number 3 was the largest, Number 2 the second largest, Number 1 still exists (45mm guage track), and eventually number 0 came into the picture when smaller gauge trains were produced. Zero eventually fell out to "O," but if you want to be super picky it would be "Half Zero," or "H0."
That's very interesting, learn something new each day. We should go back as that makes more sense than letters.
AntonioFP45 Please forgive my ignorance. I remember: MTH vs.QSI MTH vs. Lionel and was there a MTH vs. Williams. When was there a "MTH vs. BLI"?
This may not be fully correct, but the moulds for some of BLI's engines were not owned by them, but by the Korean supplier, KTM (I think those initials are right, but close otherwise...). The differences between KTM and MTH left BLI, when settled in MTH's favour, as a victim of sorts. Part of the settlement was that MTH was awarded some of the assests, and some of those awarded assets were the moulds for a few of the engines that BLI marketed. This in a nut shell.
From what I understand, MTH has the GG1 molds as well. Hence the second run never coming out.
Selector
You are close but the name of the company is Model Korea Trading Company,, not KTM. KTM built many brass models for Max Gray, Balboa and Westside to name a few and is not involved with that lawsuit. I have not seen any models from them since the early 1980's.
The quote below is directly from the BLI announcement on August 15, 2008 and explains the settlement overall.
ORMAND BEACH, Fla, AUGUST 15, 2008 – Broadway Limited is pleased to learn of the settlement of a long-running lawsuit between its primary manufacturer, Model Korea Trading Company and Mike’[s Train House (MTH). While Broadway Limited was not directly involved in the suit, the company cooperated with the settlement to ensure the financial health of its supplier. As part of the settlement, Broadway limited delivered 5 sets of tool for some of its older products to its manufacturer in exchange for 5 new tools to be delivered at a future date. The first of these is the HO Pennsy I1sa, which will be delivered next month.
The tools involved are the HO Union Pacific Big Boy, HO Pennsylvania GG-1, HO Alco PA and FA diesel and HO EMD F3/F7 diesel. Broadway limited will no longer produce products made with these old tools, but would not rule out creating updated version of these products in the future. No other products are affected.
Guilford Guy
The expression that HO is half of O scale is just a misinterpretation and is only used as a general comment. If it was half of O scale, it would be 1/96 scale, not 1/87. Many explanations have been written on this issue including MR magazine in the past. Our track width distance is the same as the UK uses for their 1/76 scale if I remember correctly. Their models are larger in scale than ours but run on the same width track giving the impression that their engines are larger than they really are in comparison to the USA common locomotives. I wanted to purchase the A4 and some of the other models while in the UK but realized the difference.
Thanks for the correction, CZ. I was obviously a bit fuzzy on the details, but was glad to have the gist of the case correct.
KemacPrrIn adddition to the N&W J coming MTH also had a HO UP 4-12-2 on display for 2009 release. ------------------------------------------------ Ken McCorry
A 4-12-2? I'd love to see one in HO, but who could run the beast? It would probably need 8 blind drivers, or a rubber frame.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
I own 2 of MTH's HO offerings and you better have perfect track work. The engines have allot of features and great sound but the engines have no forgivness on track work. I have engines that do have large drive wheels but still can handle tight curves. The MTH GS-4 needs perfect 22" raidus or larger and the MTH Mikado is a little better on most turnouts but does not like the short "Y" in your track work. I do enjoy them but I wonder how large the J types drivers will be. The BLI J type has small drivers and will stick to the track on tight radius. I doubt the MTH will do the same. I understand that large radius is best for performance and a traditional look but not all of us have the space for such curves. So I stick with 22" curves and all my steam has no issues at home. I will wait for the reviews and MTH's listing of the product before ordering. If they annouced now it will be 6-12 months before you see it anyway.
IIRC they also got the tooling for the Lionel HO Challenger and Veranda Turbine out of the deal.
I am happy MTH has decided to build something that should sell about 10,000 copies or more.
I have one of the last run Key 9029 built by Samtech and it is one of the best detailed models built. It has one set of blind drivers but the real prototype in later years did not have any blind drivers. They were built new with one set like the model but the Union Pacific found all flanges worked well. On the model however, a 40" radius is very tight and a 46" radius is much better.
The new ad states they will work on 22". We will see.
Here is the announcement on MR about the two new MTH models.
A 22" min radius for a 4-12-2? I don't think so. They are 2 great locos, but the 4-12-2 better have 12 blind drives to make a 22" radius.
I'm not sure what to make of all this. MTH has some decent engines marketed to date, but all long since done! I do think, finally, that they will see some strong interest in the 9000 series. I see already, here and on other forums, that people are comparing MTH's offering with Key and other brass engines, and not all that favourably detail's-wise. Well, no poop! The Key would have gone for at least three times as much, and you would have expected a few more baubles soldered onto it for that difference.
I would bet that the middle two axles have blind drivers.