vsmith shayfan84325 For me it was the Keystone 2 truck shay with an NWSL powering kit. I finally gave up and the shay kit is back in its box and the powering kit components went on to power other models. It was assembling the trucks that pushed me over the edge. Has anyone out there succeeded with making one of these actually run? Same for me, Keystone 2 truck Shay in HOn30... AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!! Anyone who thinks the old MDC/Roundhouse Shay kit was a PITA to put together hasnt got a clue to the true meaning of that phrase. Imagine building the easy by comparison MDC Shay, only its in white metal, and getting all the white metal parts to stick togetherm then getting all the metal moving parts together without sticking, then while your trying to unstick those stuck moving parts, having all the parts that are supposed to stick together not...AAACCCKK!!! I think this model was the straw that broke the camels back for me in HOn30, I walked away from this scale in frustration a short time after putting all this POS kit back into the closet.
shayfan84325 For me it was the Keystone 2 truck shay with an NWSL powering kit. I finally gave up and the shay kit is back in its box and the powering kit components went on to power other models. It was assembling the trucks that pushed me over the edge. Has anyone out there succeeded with making one of these actually run?
For me it was the Keystone 2 truck shay with an NWSL powering kit. I finally gave up and the shay kit is back in its box and the powering kit components went on to power other models. It was assembling the trucks that pushed me over the edge. Has anyone out there succeeded with making one of these actually run?
Same for me, Keystone 2 truck Shay in HOn30... AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!!
Anyone who thinks the old MDC/Roundhouse Shay kit was a PITA to put together hasnt got a clue to the true meaning of that phrase. Imagine building the easy by comparison MDC Shay, only its in white metal, and getting all the white metal parts to stick togetherm then getting all the metal moving parts together without sticking, then while your trying to unstick those stuck moving parts, having all the parts that are supposed to stick together not...AAACCCKK!!!
I think this model was the straw that broke the camels back for me in HOn30, I walked away from this scale in frustration a short time after putting all this POS kit back into the closet.
It is only fair to mention that the Keystone kit is for a STATIC model. It's really the NWSL powering kit that is such a struggle.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Perhaps it was because I was relatively new back into the hobby, but assembly of a Mantua 2-6-6-2 logger steam engine was my most frustrating kit so far. This is way back in the later 1980's and I didn't have a whole lot of money to spend on the hobby. So instead of paying $65.00 for an assembled engine, I chose to "save" $10.00 by buying the $55.00 kit. Big mistake!
The instructions were bad, and confusing. Some steps/parts weren't correct. There was a small bag of screws/bolts/washers/rivets/etc. that were to be used in assembling the engine. These little parts were not identified. So when the instructions said to use screw #ASM3/4 (or something like that), I had to figure out which one they meant. I made the wrong guess a few times, and had to go back and remove previously assembled parts to get the proper fitting.
I had to assemble the complicated valve train for the 2-6-6-2 - this meant four sets! The moving parts had to be fitted together with the supplied rivets. They had to be gently hammered together not too tightly or the moving pieces would bind. That was fun!
I did manage to get the loco together, but after running it for a while, it stopped working. Had to take it apart, and discovered one of the segments of the motor armature had actually fallen out! I sent away for a replacement motor and got one, all marked and scratched up as if it had been kicked around the floor for a while. But it worked OK.
To add insult to injury, I was peeved that my finished model did not look like the model shown in their ads promoting the kit. Many of the parts were not included, and many of the parts were a lot heavier than those on the model. Really strange. A year or so later I read in one of the magazines that the model wasn't ready when they needed advertising photos, so they used a brass version! Boy that ticked me off! I bought the model based upon the photo in their ads! Really felt cheated, especially with all of the work I had to do. Never bought another Mantua product again!
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Shayfan:
Ahah! Now I've found out how I can reach the Absolute Pinnacle of Frustration: I will get a Keystone Shay, the NWSL parts to power it, and build a bunch of Proto 2000 boxcars for it to haul, LOL!
Then I can get my mail sent to "The HOME".
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
ARTHILL The John English Yard Bird engine kit was not so bad, but the valve gear kit was a challenge and the superdetailing kit was a bit much and putting a sound and an engine decoder in it with lights was also too much. It still awaits a paint job, but it runs. I started this in 1950 and finished it last month. I will not get another one finished.
The John English Yard Bird engine kit was not so bad, but the valve gear kit was a challenge and the superdetailing kit was a bit much and putting a sound and an engine decoder in it with lights was also too much. It still awaits a paint job, but it runs. I started this in 1950 and finished it last month. I will not get another one finished.
That was a career!
The assembly task I dread the most is stringing the cables on scale model crane kits, such as the Kibri Leibherr Litronic, Kibri Menck dragline, and the Walthers American MOW crane . It's like I need 4 hands to do the job, yet the thread is so tiny I can't use my Helping Hands(tm) alligator clips to hold it. The MOW crane uses two separate, side-by-side spools for raising and lowering the boom, but somehow I ended up wrapping the thread tighter on one of them - one side is always too loose when the boom is down, but if I try to cut it I won't be able to raise the boom to its full height!
-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
I think I agree with a lot of folks on the shay kit. But something interesting to me is I also do a bit of scratch building structures. In many cases I've found it easier to start from balsa and paper to make a finished model than assemble the kit. The Walters Cornerstone kits make nice models when finished, but are difficult to put together. I don't think it's the number of parts, since I've done model cars and scratch built as well. Rather it seems two fold -- minimal instructions which means a lot of "I think this is the part," and parts that don't quite match where they're supposed to. Don't know if it's the case for RTR models, but I wonder if they first build a set of assembly jigs and fixtures so the kit will go together the same way everytime. Whereas we're looking at an exploded drawing showing 40 zillion parts all pointing to the same place and it really does matter which part goes in first.
jmbjmb,
You hit the nail on the head about Walthers kits, I would pay extra, say 5 to 10 dollars more if the kit came with a DVD video showing a Walthers guy building the kit, so it's more like "monkey see, monkey do!" LOL!
It wouldn't be a bad idea sure ould be better than paper illustrations.
TheK4Kid
just think of them as educational toys for adults. some kits do prepare you for life. no matter what you do, it just won't work out. as Homer Simpson said "trying is the first step on the road to failure" i remember years ago when i wanted a fleet of 40' box cars. I bought up a bunch of Walthers kits in the IC paint scheme and figured on renumbering them. it was a small issue but all the roofwalks were warped and were about twice as thick on one end as the other. not a big deal since i could file or shave them down but you would thing someone somewhere would have noticed that all these plastic castings were coming out screwed up and caught it before they sent thousands of them out. just like the local drive through fast food places, order more than 3 items and they will get something wrong. guess we should be glad these people are making model kits and flipping burgers instead of building aircraft or working in a pharmacy where they could kill you.
let's take this in a positive direction. what kits have you been happiest with? i particularly like most of the American made Bowser stuff. they have decent detail for the price and build up into a good looking model that operates well.
grizlump
I had two kits that just kicked my butt!
The first was a Boyd Models Green Bay & Western 2-6-0 kit. It was way over my head at the time. I would be able to handle all the drilling & soldering required now but when I got it back in 1972 I had few real usable modeling skills.
The second was a R.Robb Ltd (Grandt Line) D&RGW drop bottom gon. I tried and tried and it never made it to completion. It was a well made kit but there were too many fine detail parts for me.
On the other side of this discussion I'd have to say my Gould (Tichy) crane kit was the most fun kit I've ever built. Everything went together just as designed and it looks great.
Roger Huber
Toughest? Probably my Suncoast F-M Coaling tower.
It's technically a craftsman kit but closer to "scratchbuilt in a box". Parts of the directions were a challenge to decipher and I had to convert all the scale drawing dimensions to HO-scale. I probably spent about 100 hours assembling, painting, and wiring it up with lights.
I've built some other challenging kits but I can't necessarily say that I've been frustrated enough not to finish them. With that said, I still have a few kits laying around still needing to be finished.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Proto 2000 time saver.
What a waste.
It is easier to get the RTR version and place it to service than it is to assemble a time saver correctly with all the grabirons etc with tools and accessories cost far exceeding these crazy gabillion little beeny kits.
I bought a RTR shay two trucker thinking HAH... Ive turned a corner. Well a year hence I had trouble with it's slow speed which was failing at the trucks. It got sold at a big loss and good riddiance. Shouldve coughted up a few more bux and got a bachmann.
Finally I take medication to steady nerves on some of the bigger plastic kits requiring only brute strength and level surface to build. And still gaps appear to be filled. S I G H.
I have a list of cars that were difficult:
1. P2K mill gon kit (parts broke when being cut off the sprue, and warped weights)
2. Walthers CB&Q wood caboose (the basic version, very spartan out of the box, has a bunch of modeler applied parts)
3. P2K flat car kit (same as gon kits)
4. Athearn BB ACF covered hopper (was assembled poorly by previous owner, I took it apart and put it together right; Yeah, I had trouble with a blue box )
5. Walthers 100-ton hopper kit (easy except for those tiny latches and the way the trucks go on [makes them poor performers unless weighted])
As for builgins, I've only had one that was frustrating: The life-like police station, warped walls.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
Am I reading this right?
You started this kit in 1950 ???
59 years to finish it????
This has to be some kind of WORLD RECORD for a bad kit
And its STILL not painted...
Have fun with your trains
shayfan84325 vsmith shayfan84325 For me it was the Keystone 2 truck shay with an NWSL powering kit. I finally gave up and the shay kit is back in its box and the powering kit components went on to power other models. It was assembling the trucks that pushed me over the edge. Has anyone out there succeeded with making one of these actually run? Same for me, Keystone 2 truck Shay in HOn30... AAAARRRRGGGHHH!!! Anyone who thinks the old MDC/Roundhouse Shay kit was a PITA to put together hasnt got a clue to the true meaning of that phrase. Imagine building the easy by comparison MDC Shay, only its in white metal, and getting all the white metal parts to stick togetherm then getting all the metal moving parts together without sticking, then while your trying to unstick those stuck moving parts, having all the parts that are supposed to stick together not...AAACCCKK!!! I think this model was the straw that broke the camels back for me in HOn30, I walked away from this scale in frustration a short time after putting all this POS kit back into the closet. It is only fair to mention that the Keystone kit is for a STATIC model. It's really the NWSL powering kit that is such a struggle.
Yes, until some smart-aleck at NWSL convinced someone that they could convert it to a powered model, just how many hours were wasted creating that nightmare powering kit I wonder???
I still dabble in HOn30 and have considered giving this kit a whirl again (yes I am a masochist) however I will NOT even attempt to reuse the NWSL kit, or even the original trucks, I would instead try using N gauge diesel trucks with dummy plastic drive rods or just reusing the cab, boiler and bunker and make a faux-Heilser on a standard dismal chassis. dont know yet, but I'll figure something out if I do it.
Without hesitation...the Keystone Shay with the NWSL powering kit, in HOn3. I ended up "welding" the bottom plates of the trucks in place with my soldering iron to get them to stay, and ended up tossing the mounting posts for them in favor of good old screws (00-80 for the front truck, and 2-56 through the frame for the rear). Getting the mechanism itself to work right wasn't terribly difficult for me, though. And then I had to improvise a way to mount the couplers, since the trucks took up so much room under the frame that there was no way to mount the couplers at the right height. I ended up fabricating frame extensions at each end just so I could mount Kadee #714's.
And this wasn't even for me...it was for a friend who wanted to model a cedar logging line out of Lometa, TX! I have vowed never to touch one of those beasties again.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
oldline1 On the other side of this discussion I'd have to say my Gould (Tichy) crane kit was the most fun kit I've ever built. Everything went together just as designed and it looks great. Roger Huber
Let me chime in with Roger on the Tichy kits--I've built quite a few of these--reefers, the crane, some boxcars and a couple of wood gons, and they're an absolute pleasure to build--somewhere between intermediate and craftsman, depending on the particular kit, but everything goes EXACTLY where it's supposed to go.
I REALLY like'em!
Arjay1969 Without hesitation...the Keystone Shay with the NWSL powering kit, in HOn3. I ended up "welding" the bottom plates of the trucks in place with my soldering iron to get them to stay, and ended up tossing the mounting posts for them in favor of good old screws (00-80 for the front truck, and 2-56 through the frame for the rear). Getting the mechanism itself to work right wasn't terribly difficult for me, though. And then I had to improvise a way to mount the couplers, since the trucks took up so much room under the frame that there was no way to mount the couplers at the right height. I ended up fabricating frame extensions at each end just so I could mount Kadee #714's. And this wasn't even for me...it was for a friend who wanted to model a cedar logging line out of Lometa, TX! I have vowed never to touch one of those beasties again.
I think we might be approaching a consensious about a specific "worst kit"
I'm actually amazed someone actually managed to get one to work!
Any feedback on how long it lasted in actual use
Hi,
This has been one of the most interesting group of postings I have read on this Forum. I've built model kits since the mid 1950s, and have built (or attempted) most all kinds. On the higher scale of difficulty for rail cars, Intermountain has been one of the best (imho). The older craftsman kits (Ambroid, Silver Streak, Ulrich, etc.) are more difficult to me, probably because you are dealing with wood and metal parts instead of just plastic. Ha, I have built some of these, but sold most all of my "hoard" the last two years on Ebay as I just don't want to deal with them. I guess in my old age I am starting to be very careful in not over-reaching my capabilities when I get a new kit.
A major surprise for me was the Branchline boxcar kits I bought awhile back. Some of the crucial parts (doors and ends as I recall) were on overly large sprues that screwed up the parts when they were cut off - showing some black unpainted plastic. I made three attempts to get the correct boxcar brown paint color from Branchline, and they would not return my correspondance or emails. I made a reasonable match for the paint, but that soured me on Branchline.
In closing, its a bit disconcerting that I have sitting next to me some kits (which are on your list) to build for my new layout - including the Walthers HO modern coaling tower, Walthers cabeese, etc.
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Wow you did a great job on this kit...
I would like to try one i like the box of sticks kits but the price on the box is ......
mobilman44 In closing, its a bit disconcerting that I have sitting next to me some kits (which are on your list) to build for my new layout - including the Walthers HO modern coaling tower, Walthers cabeese, etc. ENJOY, Mobilman44
Mobilman:
Take it from me, the Walthers coaling tower isn't THAT bad, just takes time and care, and you'll probably be pretty proud of the results. I like mine a lot.
The Walthers cabeese kits, on the other hand----SHEESH! Can you get an exhange or a REFUND?
Grizlump asked about the positive. These aren't kits, but when you consider the material he used, and the state of model railroad technology at the time, the old E L Moore structure articles produced some pretty interesting buildings. His style of writing and sense of humor made for a great read and very easy to follow directions. Wonder what he would have done with today's materials???
jmbjmb Grizlump asked about the positive. These aren't kits, but when you consider the material he used, and the state of model railroad technology at the time, the old E L Moore structure articles produced some pretty interesting buildings. His style of writing and sense of humor made for a great read and very easy to follow directions. Wonder what he would have done with today's materials???
j:
His own thing, for sure. Heck, in using balsa he was a maverick back then. (is it safe to say "maverick" again?) I bet he'd like the downloadable brickpaper and ink windows we can get.
I'm curious to see some of your balsa-paper buildings - I have used that technique as well, somewhat.
The worst kit I ever attempted was an Arbour 4-6-0. I started by melting a crosshead guide trying to solder to it, and it went downhill from there. Usually I cause my own troubles by impatience, but that kit was EVIL, pure and simple.
I gave it away to a local jeweler, unfinished.
My Keystone ran for about 2 months.
The Rocky Crag branch line had about 60' of track, so at a scale 5 mph, it worked pretty hard. It was a pretty strong little guy, but I guess it just got tuckered out. The 'issues' about which I spoke amounted to it throwing off some pretty important parts, so it's retirement was necessary.
My next project is building 2 Roundhouse Atlantics and a 2-6-0 old timer.
Gary
vsmithI think we might be approaching a consensious about a specific "worst kit" I'm actually amazed someone actually managed to get one to work! Any feedback on how long it lasted in actual use
I think so.
I do have to admit, though...the layout that it was built for has never been constructed, so it has remained a "Box Queen". It's only been on the rails for testing purposes. Heck, the wee beastie hasn't even been painted yet! But as the instructions themselves say, you can't expect this mechanism to perform like a brass model.
CadizRRfanThe 'issues' about which I spoke amounted to it throwing off some pretty important parts, so it's retirement was necessary.
If I may ask, which parts? I'd like to know for future reference.
I'll put in a vote for the P2K Hopper kits of a few years ago, these build into awesome cars, but I could knock out three IM kits in the time it took to build that one...
The guilty parts were basically the drive line, some of which became part of the scenery. If I remember correctly, I was able to recover all but a few, but those few were lost in the yonder woods, never to be seen again. I imagine some future HO scale archeologist will discover them... no wait, since it was about 19 years ago... and with a fast clock, that would be... hmmm lemme see... 114 years, he may already have.
jeep35A friend of mine asked me to assemble about six Walthers 25' wooden cabooses for him. Each one of these has about 50 holes that need drilling in order to install all the grabirons and safety appliances
Tip 1:
Replace the queen post on top with brass ones. They are a little out of scale, but greatly save on frustration.
Tip 2:
Buy one of these pin vises if you don't have one. After using this particular pin vice from micromark, I'll NEVER go back to a regular twist type pin vise!
http://www.micromark.com/MICRO-HAND-DRILL,7045.html
Tip 3:
Dril with a #79. The post go in a lot easier. Secure each post with a drop of liquid testors (the kind in a bottle with a brush. The 3 point grabs at the end are the hardest. Secure the end points with glue first. Let them dry. Then use a mini tweezer to insert the last eye loop.
Tip 4:
Buy more eye loops. They are cheap. And I use them when assembling my Walthers heavyweights. Those parts go flying as well!
Tip 5:
Autoclosing tweezers are nice, unless it's a real small part. If they snap close (which they do a lot with small parts) your part will go flying (as you have discovered)
Tip 6:
When cutting small parts from the spru, put painters tap across the part to keep it from flying. Use a gentle one directional sawing motion with a #11 blade. Don't press down or you could snap it! Do not use rail nippers! They bend delicate parts (ie: hose lines, queen post), and can possibly cause them to snap.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
By far: The Walthers blast furnace...then kitbashing it! The molds NEVER fit, requiring filling and sanding. And parts were broken right out of the box, and some were missing. Unfortunately at the time I assembled my two they were out of production. So replacement parts had to be scratch built.
Close seconds: DPM's city classics. I hate painting on long narrow, < 0.5 mm details (window sills, columns etc) of 1 piece mold kits.
Gate 5