My friend Lisa got me an N scale box car and "Cricket's Saloon" by DPM (kit #511) for Christmas (and I love her for it). I wouldn't have expected her to know the better quality kits from the lesser quality ones, and once again DPM has proven to be one of the worst (at least in N scale anyhow) that I usually avoid.
The plastic is extremely brittle and difficult to work, the castings are sloppy with excessive flash and, for whatever reason, DPM always seems to have trouble producing chimneys or cornice halves that match-up decently (3 out of the 4 chimney halves were badly shaped and didn't meet-up at the edges, and if you file or sand them you lose brick texturing). They provide you with slanted edges with the excuse that "draft angles" are a necessary part of the molding process, yet there are plenty of better quality kits that certainly don't.
What really killed me was this quote from the instruction sheet (I had to read it twice to ensure they really said this):
"If you want to make the building exactly square, sand both edges of the rear wall to remove about .02 inches in width. In the real world, few buildings are exactly square - you might decide to skip this step."
Uhhh, if the builder who built my house in Minnesota told me, "few buildings are exactly square", he wouldn't be my builder! What an assanine statement! I spent about 30 min. sanding-down the rear wall's edges to get the structure perfectly square, because without that effort, "Cricket's Saloon" would've looked off-kilter from across the room let alone up close. Plus, who the heck can measure .02 inches on an N scale structure??
I got past all this and the kit is looking acceptible now (to be renamed "Lisa's Lounge"), but DPM is a pretty sad excuse for Made In USA quality.
There's one reason to buy DPM. Price. You get what you pay for. With DPM kits, you get four walls, the roof, window glass and not much else. At the price you pay for them, you can't expect much more than that. DPM kits have a place on my layout as fillers on the back edge of the layout. They aren't going to be showpieces and aren't going to have a prominent place up front. If you want more quality, expect to pay a higher price.
I haven't touched a DPM kit in years. Model Power's quality is better and that's being generous.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I feel your pain with the DPM structures, I try and get them as close as possible when I assemble them. And I can be understand your feelings.
Real quick though, you said if your builder of your home ever stated that your home was not perfect in being square, he would not be your builder. I've built quite a few homes and allot of garages over the years. And if a builder can say a structure he built is perfect as far as being square in the home built market, he would be lying through his teeth. If a builder can get it within an inch from corner to corner, he is doing great. Expansion and settling will play a major factor in being square also.
I live in a 120 year old Victorian home which sits 13 inches off on one side of my large lot, in otherwords it was eye balled to be square with our brick street out in front. This showed up a few years ago on the GPS servey that was done. We have a room upstairs that is 7 inches wider from one end to the other, so it isn,t even close to being square. I have never measured the outside wall to see any difference in it, don't want to either. I'm afraid of what I'll find.
Last one I got (Front St. Building) had recessed doorways that where all completely warped and unusable. Since I got it for $12 with no S&H, I'm not complaining too much. I can make it work. If it weren't for DPM, Smalltown and the like, my city would cost me 5 times more than I want to spend.
I'm not going to grumble about DPM kits. I like them. I don't see a kit as a self-contained work of art. Instead, it's a template, almost a blank canvas. For the price, you get a decent casting of 4 walls. After that, it's up to you. Doing something with a DPM kit separates the men from the true modellers.
We've come to expect too much from kits. Sure, it's nice to have all the little details in the box, but it's even better to make your own scene. Search the web for some signs. Print some decals, and put them in the windows. Install lighting, and a second story with some figures inside, barely seen through the windows.
It's my layout, not theirs. Every one of my DPM buildings is a unique structure, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Yeah, I'd like them to be square, too. But, it's a DPM quirk I've learned to live with. I measure and re-cut the buildings. No big deal.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I actually enjoy building DPM kits, I have several, and they all were pretty easy to do, the plastic held up great.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
WIARI spent about 30 min. sanding-down the rear wall's edges to get the structure perfectly square, because without that effort, "Cricket's Saloon" would've looked off-kilter from across the room let alone up close. Plus, who the heck can measure .02 inches on an N scale structure??
WIAR,
You spent a half hour sanding the edges? Did you use the method outlined on the DPM instruction sheet? That really speeds up the "squaring up" process immensely.
Since I'm in HO, I can't speak for the N-scale kits. However, the DPM kits I've put together have been good quality kits. Yes, you have to sand some of the edges so that the walls are flat to one another but they do walk you through the process. And, because of the thickness of the walls, I've found the HO kits to be very sturdy.
I think the brick and window detailing on the newer kits is quite nice for the price. The only thing that I don't care for with the older DPM kits are the window encasements. They're too thick and bulky.
Lastly, besides purchasing a pair of calipers (which an inexpensive pair can be picked up for ~$20), if you want a quick and dirty method for measuring minute measurements, use a piece of paper. Most 8-1/2 x 11 paper is 3.5- to 4-mil (0.0035-0.004") thick. For calculating 20-mil (0.02"): Stack 5 - 6 sheets of paper on top of each other. Voila! 0.02"
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
over the years i have built a number of DPM kits
there are compromises made in the design and tooling to keep the price down
with a moderate amt of average quality work very nice models can be constructed at a very reasonable cost. Yes, i too have had trouble with their recessed doorways, but when all factors are considered it comes down to where else can you get that many semi urban structures without breaking the bank?
you have never had it so good.
I love DPM kits. They're very affordable, and also very easy to work with. The designs are basic, so you can apply a lot of creativity to bashing them. I also really like the large windows on the first floor stoor fronts, which open up a lot of possibilities for interiors.
The sanding and squaring is not rocket science, and using some tape to make masks, you can even paint them in a hurry.
As for warped parts, DPM kits are packaged in a zip loc bag, and can easily be inspected before purchase. Take a moment and look the parts over before putting your money down.
Maybe we've become a little too accustomed to buying built up kits (at exhorbitant prices) and not building models ourselves. Take some time to develop some skills, and you'll come to really appreciate DPM.
I just wish their new overlord at Woodland Scenics would create some new designs to add more variety to the line.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I model in HO as well as many previous posters. My only real problem with DPM kits are that they seem to take FOR-EV-ER to paint! It's like 10-minute assembly then 10-day painting. I've assembled several of the 100-series kits and am looking forward to a few of the 200s as I believe they have separate window castings. That should make the painting go a lot easier... fire up the airbrush and have at it.
dlm
My layout is littered with DPM's N scale kits. I love them. Sure you have to sand a little, but I mean gee whiz... For the price, you can't really beat them.
A DPM factory (embellished with some additional detail):
A street with a mix of DPM, Atlas, and Walthers kits:
DPM stores round out my town in this construction scene:
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
danmerkelI model in HO as well as many previous posters. My only real problem with DPM kits are that they seem to take FOR-EV-ER to paint! It's like 10-minute assembly then 10-day painting. I've assembled several of the 100-series kits and am looking forward to a few of the 200s as I believe they have separate window castings. That should make the painting go a lot easier... fire up the airbrush and have at it. dlm
I remember a tip posted either on here or another forum that suggested painting the whole model the trim color, then going back with the brick color.
As long as you use a good square edge on DPM kits, you shouldn't have any trouble with them lining up well. But then, I suppose that's a good rule for any model kit you'd make.
I've had a few DPM kits that I put together--don't seem to have too much trouble with them.
I think though what with the quality of the higher priced kits out there comes the reflection that lower priced kits pull up the quality as well. It just seems to be the nature of the beast as it were, but to ask that there be a near 1:1 quality level when DPM sells for ~$20 vs any kit made by BTS or some such at a $60 level would be a bit much--- then again, what if someone thought this possible? -----hhmmmnn---(chin stroking time) ----hhhmmn
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
tstage WIARI spent about 30 min. sanding-down the rear wall's edges to get the structure perfectly square, because without that effort, "Cricket's Saloon" would've looked off-kilter from across the room let alone up close. Plus, who the heck can measure .02 inches on an N scale structure?? WIAR, You spent a half hour sanding the edges? Did you use the method outlined on the DPM instruction sheet? That really speeds up the "squaring up" process immensely. Since I'm in HO, I can't speak for the N-scale kits. However, the DPM kits I've put together have been good quality kits. Yes, you have to sand some of the edges so that the walls are flat to one another but they do walk you through the process. And, because of the thickness of the walls, I've found the HO kits to be very sturdy. I think the brick and window detailing on the newer kits is quite nice for the price. The only thing that I don't care for with the older DPM kits are the window encasements. They're too thick and bulky. Lastly, besides purchasing a pair of calipers (which an inexpensive pair can be picked up for ~$20), if you want a quick and dirty method for measuring minute measurements, use a piece of paper. Most 8-1/2 x 11 paper is 3.5- to 4-mil (0.0035-0.004") thick. For calculating 20-mil (0.02"): Stack 5 - 6 sheets of paper on top of each other. Voila! 0.02" Tom
Yep - I sure did use the flat sanding sheet technique DPM suggested, and it was about 30 min. while watching Iowa hand South Carolina their lunch in the Outback Bowl. Maybe I was stopping too often to check the fit, and maybe the sandpaper was too fine a grit, but it did take that long.
Maybe you do get what you pay for, and I'm certainly not averse to doing some kitbashing and scratch detailing work to enhance a kit's final result. But I've worked with several DPM products and their quality is consistently poor, especially with the casts of the smaller pieces. When the castings are for textured surfaces that are supposed to match-up and form a seamless joint (like brick work), you can only do so much to make it look right when sanding/filing will obliterate detail.
Oh well, it was worth the price I guess since it was a gift. If you consider a kit to be basically the "foundation" for your own unique detailing work (which I do - no disagreement there), with DPM you have to put more effort into getting that foundation to look right than what I think is acceptible. I want to put the bulk of my effort into that detailing work, not correcting manufacturing errors in the kit's components.
WIARUhhh, if the builder who built my house in Minnesota told me, "few buildings are exactly square", he wouldn't be my builder! What an assanine statement! I spent about 30 min. sanding-down the rear wall's edges to get the structure perfectly square, because without that effort, "Cricket's Saloon" would've looked off-kilter from across the room let alone up close. Plus, who the heck can measure .02 inches on an N scale structure?? I got past all this and the kit is looking acceptible now (to be renamed "Lisa's Lounge"), but DPM is a pretty sad excuse for Made In USA quality.
All you young whippersnappers in the midwest and far west are way too spoiled. What do you want next - a level floor? I'd love to walk through your house with a square and a level. I'd bet a brass loco that I could find a corner out of square somewhere in your building.
Unless you're in a frost free, earthquake free, bedrock stable environment, or you have an engineered 30 foot deep basement, odds are good your building is going to move after construction.
I've assembled a couple of DPM kits (in HO), and love them. Great price, and visual detail is good. Sanding edges took me 5 minutes, if, as noted, you follow their instructions. I also used a magnetic gluing jig that I've had for years from Micro Mark. This is a god send for setting up buildings - as the old saying goes, if you don't start from a square edge....well...it's kind of hard to end up there.
I'd honestly recommend this tool to anyone who models. Oh yeah, that's a DPM freight depot in there.
I'm trying to model 1956, not live in it.
Let's keep this in scale, shall we? Yes, were you to wander my house with a square you would indeed find places where corners are not perfectly square. Those out-of-square cases would be a matter of inches, not several feet, they would surely be the result of settling, and were an exact replica of my house as it stands today were to be built, imperfections and all, those imperfections would not be clearly noitceable to the naked eye on an N scale layout.
This kit's rear wall, if the sanding were skipped as mentioned in the instructions, would've caused the structure to appear so out-of-square (by roughly 2 ft. on either side) it would've looked ridiculous.
WIARLet's keep this in scale, shall we? Yes, were you to wander my house with a square you would indeed find places where corners are not perfectly square. Those out-of-square cases would be a matter of inches, not several feet, they would surely be the result of settling, and were an exact replica of my house as it stands today were to be built, imperfections and all, those imperfections would not be clearly noitceable to the naked eye on an N scale layout. This kit's rear wall, if the sanding were skipped as mentioned in the instructions, would've caused the structure to appear so out-of-square (by roughly 2 ft. on either side) it would've looked ridiculous.
Well so much for my attempt at humor.
Now I feel compelled to ask the million dollar question -
why would you skip part of the instructions, and than complain about the outcome? If you don't like the kits, that is certainly your prerogative, but it seems odd to raise an issue with something that they have clearly corrected and defined as a step in their assembly process.
Another possibility would be to suggest what if the area that an out of plumb building is on is soft ground? Example; an area in my city---London ON--- has about 4 houses that are kind of leaning toward/away from each other--in N scale they would look out of plumb noticeably In some of the older parts of town we could see buildings that are not necessarily in good shape so one could model that approach as well---but still if you are going to do any modelling first attempts are not going to be masterpieces. That is why the first pieces I made are in the older, or more delapitated parts of town---or abandoned-- another example would be in places where mine shafts and such would/could have collapsed---I'm thinking about those possibilities as well because these earlier attempts at modelling buildings still would be useful---not make the person crabby at DPM for issues---
Out of square by 2' on both sides? Methinks you were assembling it wrong. Typically on a DPM kit, the front wall is attached to the edges of the side walls, while the rear wall is attached between them...
Also, sanding the proper edges would never affect the cast on details, because the joining edges are always blank. The problem is they might be at a bit of an angle, which is why the light sanding is required to square them up. You should never have to remove more than a millimeter of material.
Maybe you should post a photo of what you did so we can get a handle on why you were having the problems you had with this.
I would have to agree with Lee that it sounds like you assembled the model improperly. A 2' deviation from square is by no means likely for a properly built DPM model. In fact, I consider DPM as one of the great innovations in hobby kits introduced in the past quarter century, with regards to their quality and price (they started out at $7.98 as I recall). Most of the other available kits for similarly detailed buildings today run several times the price of DPM kits and usually require considerably more work to complete correctly.
CNJ831
Judging by your use of apostrophes and the word edge is plural, I would assume you are assembling the back wall correctly. I too chuckle at the don't have too sand line, because the bevel left on would leave a gap at the joint. Maybe you were using too small of grit. I know what you mean on the chimneys I have had a couple that just wouldn't match up. And regardless of the price that is frustrating when something will not work.
In DPM's defense. Very few kits of any brand or kind (building, train car or automobile etc), I've assembled did not need a touch with some sandpaper or a file. How about the spru larger than the part? Granted, generally DPM is just 4 walls. An arguement could be made that at least they could get the wall ends square. Most are not, and since you need to sand anyway, it's just a matter of how much. However the four walls that you get are, IMHO, extremely well detailed for the money. I've never experienced a brittle wall or a warped door or anything. DPM is a very well detailed structure or starting point for a scene for the money.
All that being said I model in HO so maybe there is night and day differences between that and N scale. I would say don't buy anymore, but it sounds like you won't and probably wouldn't have this one but she bought it for you as a gift and is probably looking for it when it is done! Been there done that.
Disclaimer: The above comments are based on the writers personal opinions and experiences. Your experience may lead to a much different opinion.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
jeffrey-wimberly I haven't touched a DPM kit in years. Model Power's quality is better and that's being generous.
You must be kidding. Model Power is is the "K-Mart" of buildings compared to DPM. I've built at least 20 DPM buildings and I must say they are more realistic than most other kits after you paint and weather them. Our local HO club has hundreds of DPM wall, and structures littering the layout. This layout was almost featured in MR about 15 years ago.
I'm going to chime in with support for DPM. I work in HO, and have never had a warped or brittle wall. In fact, I've found the DPM plastic some of the most resilent plastic out there. Takes about 5 minutes to square up the walls.
Yes the kits are rather bare, but hay what do you expect for 10 bucks. I can build an entire block of DPM kits for what it costs to buy one new run Walthers building.
Nick
Take a Ride on the Reading with the: Reading Company Technical & Historical Society http://www.readingrailroad.org/
I like the fact that DPM's wall thickness is more prototypical for an early 20th century masonry building. And while the cast in windows are a challenge to work with, they are actually much more to scale and better detailed than many window castings, especially in N scale.
Of course, Model Power buildings do have the advantage of having the parts molded in color...
CNJ831 I would have to agree with Lee that it sounds like you assembled the model improperly. A 2' deviation from square is by no means likely for a properly built DPM model. In fact, I consider DPM as one of the great innovations in hobby kits introduced in the past quarter century, with regards to their quality and price (they started out at $7.98 as I recall). Most of the other available kits for similarly detailed buildings today run several times the price of DPM kits and usually require considerably more work to complete correctly. CNJ831
Nope. The kit was assembled quite correctly. The rear wall fits inside the two side walls (the rear wall has no texturing on the ends while the side walls do have brick texturing. There's no valid reason for the rear wall to be that much wider than is correct.
As for the earlier post regarding the suggestion to skip the step of sanding the rear wall's edges to make it perfectly square, that suggestion is stated in the instructions as I indicated in my original post. Instead of producing a better casting, DPM simply opted to instruct the builder on how to correct their mistake (which I suppose is cheaper than actually fixing their molds).
Fellas, if you're OK with poor quality at a low price, then fine - knock yourselves out. I like a challenge (and as far as that goes I've worked with more difficult kits than this one with 4 walls and a roof), and this one is turning out well enough to pass muster. I'm simply stating for those who might be considering buying a DPM kit that you will have plenty of work to do to make it look right.
If we're not supposed to say anything about bad quality simply because it's no worse than what you could get "back in the old days", or because it's cheaper than other brands, than I guess nothing is ever expected to improve in the industry. Forget about getting better products at a lower price - as long as the price is low quality can be overlooked.
Sorry, but I get somewhat worked-up when people start questioning a person's skills as a modeller because they raise an issue with a particular brand.
WIARFellas, if you're OK with poor quality at a low price, then fine - knock yourselves out.
Well, you certainly shouldn't expect high quality at a low price. You get what you pay for. You want a better-quality model, then prepare to spend some more money on it.
Oddly my 2 DPM kits went together nicely..
Not so with my Walthers George Roberts Printing.
Here's my song of woe.I been working on that building for the last 3 weeks including painting.The walls came loose-I use glue sparingly so,yesterday I re-glued one of the walls back and let it dry 24 hours and it to failed to stick.So,I will reuse the kit as kitbash fodder or a industrial flat..I usually don't give up this easily but,this building been a pain for the last 3 weeks with its warp window "glass" and walls.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Driline jeffrey-wimberly I haven't touched a DPM kit in years. Model Power's quality is better and that's being generous. You must be kidding. Model Power is is the "K-Mart" of buildings compared to DPM. I've built at least 20 DPM buildings and I must say they are more realistic than most other kits after you paint and weather them. Our local HO club has hundreds of DPM wall, and structures littering the layout. This layout was almost featured in MR about 15 years ago.
I agree. I have built N-scale DPM structures in the past and had no serious problems. They make very nice buidlings once finished.
Model Power structures, on the other hand...well... they're cheap and look it.