I just picked up a copy of the December MR. I canceled my subscription last year because I felt the magazine's quality had slipped and that it had become "dumbed down," but, from time to time, I check to see if the situation's been rectified.
Given that a major contributor this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case.
Midnight, your note is not addressed to me, but you have posted it in a public forum. If I were Andy, I'd be quite put out by your approach, making it a public disapproval rather than contacting him privately.
Seems a lot like posturing to me. I say this in the same public forum that you have used, and just as publicly, to let you know how I feel about your method. Hopefully I have made my point?
-Crandell
Does this mean Andy Sper - Spor - whatever is human?
Typo's are always easy to find by critics after the fact, as a simple club magazine editor, believe me, I know, and I am only on a club level!
Teditor.
Teditor
MR you may have opened a larger can of worms than you wanted, or maybe not. Taking a public pot shot at a popular person can be misunderstood as mean spirited, or maybe not misunderstood. And you are not even a subscriber to the magazine.
I suggest you post some pics of your layout, share some ideas on how to make better trees and leave the magazine editing to those who publish it and subscribe to it.
Actually didn't realise, but Midnight Railroader is using the initials of the magazine he is bagging, time for a new identity.
ARTHILL MR you may have opened a larger can of worms than you wanted, or maybe not. Taking a public pot shot at a popular person can be misunderstood as mean spirited, or maybe not misunderstood. And you are not even a subscriber to the magazine.
All this over simply mispelling someones name?
Sheesh if I counted all the times I misspelled something...
Have fun with your trains
selector Midnight, your note is not addressed to me, but you have posted it in a public forum. If I were Andy, I'd be quite put out by your approach, making it a public disapproval rather than contacting him privately. Seems a lot like posturing to me. I say this in the same public forum that you have used, and just as publicly, to let you know how I feel about your method. Hopefully I have made my point? -Crandell
vsmith All this over simply mispelling someones name? Sheesh if I counted all the times I misspelled something...
Have our standards dropped that much?
Midnight Railroader vsmith All this over simply mispelling someones name? Sheesh if I counted all the times I misspelled something... I don't get this--excusing a paid, professional magazine's unwillingness to get the very basics right. Have our standards dropped that much?
I just look at it this way, if he mispelled it 3 times, he must have honestly thought he was spelling it correctly, even if he wasnt, it wasnt intentional, so I'd be willing to let it slide, I cant tell you how many times I've unintentionally butchered people and place names, its sometimes very hard to get some one name right when they are one or two letters different from the most common spelling of a name, thats why I would let it slide this time.
Midnight,
Glad to see you tamed down your posting, but I wish you had just written directly to Mr. Sperandeo.
I've been a reader/subscriber to MR since Dec. 1955. I also subscribe to other train mags, but consider MR to almost consistently be the best.
As a retired financial analyst from a major oil company, I have written many documents that ended up in the hands of lots of high level folks. I know first hand that you will make "spelling errors", but I was never chastised for them as you did in your original posting.
Mr. Sperandeo is one of my MR heroes, and I am certain that he did not err in the spelling of the gentleman's name on purpose. Of course no one wants to see their name misspelled, and I am sure Andy understands that more than most folks. He, or the proofreaders or whoever, made an error.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
vsmith I just look at it this way, if he mispelled it 3 times, he must have honestly thought he was spelling it correctly, even if he wasnt, it wasnt intentional, so I'd be willing to let it slide, I cant tell you how many times I've unintentionally butchered people and place names, its sometimes very hard to get some one name right when they are one or two letters different from the most common spelling of a name, thats why I would let it slide this time.
This the heart of my complaint. Here we have a writer who simply guessed at the spelling of a name, didn't bother to check it, and no one else on the staff took the time either. The MR of old wouldn't have allowed that kind of sloppiness. These people get paid--it's a job. We ought to expect a quality product, whether we subscribe or buy a copy off the stand.
I just want "my" old Model Railroader back--the one that taught me much of what I know about this hobby.
One of the problems with typos these days is that they have a very insidious way of hanging around no matter what one tries to do about them. I've noticed them appearing more and more in newspapers, magazines and--yes, actual published books. I have a wonderful book on Rio Grande steam locomotives by Robert LaMessina, an author that I've always enjoyed, and the book is absolutely RIFE with typos. Not factual errors, but simple spelling errors that are pretty easy to do, if one is using a computer keyboard and working fast--God knows I'VE done my share--and with the speed at which things have to be turned out in this day and age, it seems harder and harder for a proof-reader to catch them all.
I hate to say it, but typos are fast becoming more and more, a product of our rapid technology. For myself, I've sort of learned to ignore them. Lord knows I've even had my share of them in some of the school memos that have come out from time to time--I've got two very simple names--Tom White--but you'd be amazed at some of the variations that have come out--'Bob' White being frequent. However the best one was "Tod Whytte." I was so intrigued by how they came up with THAT one that I almost ADOPTED it, LOL!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Well, you better not mis-spell my name, Louis Robert Van Hentenryck Sr.!!
In my former life (pre-retirement) I often wrote for "scholarly" journals; they would send me proof sheets that I would proof read and correct; I would send it back to them, and the mistakes would still make it into print. I know someone who's article in a professional publication was printed with the credit to another author entirely.
But I also worked in the graphic arts (printing industry) and was responsible for publishing error-free publications, and I can tell you it is almost impossible to do.
I've had my name spelled incorrectly so many times I don't much think about it anymore, unless its on a check!
Midnight, thanks. I hope you understand that I respect you. It was just your method. I have no opinion on your beef, as unfortunate as it is. I'm sure Andy is mortified...if he now understands his error. He deserved more credit in my opinion.
It is my belief that without the modern addition of spell checkers on our computers I would be writing from a random pile of letters that would only by chance happen to fall into the correct order to form a word or sentence that could convey any meaning to the reader at all.
Bruce
Midnight Railroader Given that a major contributor this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case.
I believe this quoted sentence should read:
Given that a major contributor TO this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
R. T. POTEET Midnight Railroader Given that a major contributor this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case. I believe this quoted sentence should read:Given that a major contributor TO this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case. IT INDEED APPEARS, SIR, THAT YOUR SYNTAX IS NO BETTER THAN HIS SPELLING!
True, and were I writing this for pay as part of my job, I'd expect to be taken to task for it.
Since I am not, however, the circumstances are very different.
Most publications have people - copy editors and proofreaders and such - who are supposed to catch and correct things like name misspellings before they get into print. The editor may have misspelled someone's name, but not catching it means someone else failed to do their job.
This, along with other errors I've noticed in the past few years in MR and other Kalmbach publications, simply shows that Kalmbach has cut their quality assurance department too much.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Brunton Most publications have people - copy editors and proofreaders and such - who are supposed to catch and correct things like name misspellings before they get into print. The editor may have misspelled someone's name, but not catching it means someone else failed to do their job. This, along with other errors I've noticed in the past few years in MR and other Kalmbach publications, simply shows that Kalmbach has cut their quality assurance department too much.
I agree that in the past such an error as this would have been caught by whom ever on the MR staff proof read their articles. However,I tend to think that, outside of Andy and Jim Hediger, there probably isn't anyone on the MR staff today who even knows who Minton Cronkhite was and what he contributed to the hobby!
CNJ831
Speaking as someone who has been writing for publication for well over 30 years ... when I started, I'd submit my copy, typewritten on a manual typewriter, and after an editor or two worked on it and corrected it, someone, somewhere, would retype it into printing proof format. If they were bright they'd correct typos or question grammar. Then it would be sent back for mandatory "read-ins" where one person would read from the printer's proof and another would listen and mark in corrections, changes, and other modifications. Our editor in chief and managing editor would also give it a reading. Many sets of eyes would see the piece at that stage.
That would be sent back for a second printer's proof and the same process would be followed, except that at the second read-in changes were much more expensive for the publisher and thus highly discouraged. But the end result was a scholarly publication that was as error free as we could make it.
Fast foward some 15 years. Writing for commercial, versus scholarly, publication, the re-typed printer's proof would be sent to the author for changes and corrections. The problem is, is that the mind corrects what is wrong on the page. (That surely explains the slight syntax error that is lampooned above. In his mind the writer "saw" the missing word. I suspect it might also explain the spelling error that brought about this thread in the first place.) The result was still fairly good since the author, the editor, the typesetter, and the author again all had a "go" at the piece.
OK, in today's world the author is the typesetter and very possibly is the editor as well. Spell check is wonderful but can be perverse. Especially troublesome can be systems that correct as you type so that even if your fingers hit the right key, what the page shows can differ. Those of us who still use the Christopher Columbus method of typing (find a key and land on it) aren't looking at the screen!. The editor is probably more concerned with page layout than with content. And frankly Mr. Bifocals here cannot see the screen as well as I can a printed page. What sees print might well be a first draft in a high pressure situation (and let's not forget that Andy Sperandeo was out of the office for some time due to a health concern; note that Great Model Railroads shows him as editor but someone else wrote the traditional introductory remarks on his behalf).
I see more typos in the New York Times and major magazines than ever before and I think it is because so many intermediate steps have been eliminated.
If someone is going to pick on the December issue, I'd focus instead on Neil Besougloff's editorial -- his wife tells him not to buy anything at a train show? Isn't that sort of his job? And anything he buys is tax deductible (even the milage driving to the show is!). Does the spouse of the editor of Astronomy tell him not to look at the sky on the way home?
The article on building the sector plate made the issue worth its price for me.
Dave Nelson
Ah, yes!
Just like Seinfeld... a thread about nothing!
-George
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Midnight RailroaderR. T. POTEET Midnight Railroader Given that a major contributor this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case. I believe this quoted sentence should read:Given that a major contributor TO this hobby's name was misspelled "Chronkite," and by a long-time editor, no less, I see this is not the case. IT INDEED APPEARS, SIR, THAT YOUR SYNTAX IS NO BETTER THAN HIS SPELLING! True, and were I writing this for pay as part of my job, I'd expect to be taken to task for it. Since I am not, however, the circumstances are very different.
'Midnight Poteet'
Reading, then rereading 'your' sentence, neither version makes sense. I'm afraid both fail to represent the facts correctly to me. It would seem you are saying that Andy is not a long time editor. I'll presume you meant Andy is a long time editor. And that such editors should know better. I fall victim trying to sort out your negative logic. I think it is something called double negatives.
It would seem that you also fall victim to complex sentences. Complex sentences have been at the root of my readability problems. And Midnight, your grammar is quite relevant when you elected to position yourself as editor.
Personally, I like MR very much. I entered the hobby in 2005. I found it valuable to buy older copies of MR. I find those prior to 1995 or so to be less valuable. I place value on content.
Writing is a major part of my work. I ask for a lot of feedback from peers. Generally I get a spell check. Grammatical feedback is of low value to me. The feedback I want is about the accuracy of my content.
My subscription to Model Railroader is paid through 2011. Only Scale Rails has provided similar value to me.
Somewhere in the last 4 or 5 paragraphs, I committed as least one grammatical faux pas. I'll apologize now.
Just my 2 cents,
Joe Daddy
Ah yes - the younger incompetent generation! I had a 19 year old HS grad working for me - he brought me wrong change and I asked him what's 7 from 10 - I gave up when he started to count on his fingers!!
The English language is far more complex than basic math - Kalmbach must have a H X X X of a time finding even marginally competent proof readers!!
I just want "my" old Model Railroader back--the one that taught me much of what I know about this hobby
What I find interesting is that the person who started this thread wants the magazine back that taught him so much about this hobby,but he does not want it to teach other people about the hobby.
Am I missing something here ?
joe-daddy...Writing is a major part of my work. I ask for a lot of feedback from peers. Generally I get a spell check. Grammatical feedback is of low value to me. The feedback I want is about the accuracy of my content....
You should give some or as much value to grammar as you do to whatever content you're writing about. I had a heck of a time trying to piece your sentence fragments together to get the gist of what you're trying to express.
In regards to what the thread is about, a misspelled word does not look as bad as misspelling someone's name. To me, it shows lack of respect to not take the time to ensure that a person's name is spelled correctly. I know MR usually faces up to a mistake in one issue by releasing a correction in the following issue. If they can do it for wrong prototype information or the way a diode is oriented in a given circuit, I'm willing to bet (for their own sake) that they correct the name in question.
TONY
"If we never take the time, how can we ever have the time." - Merovingian (Matrix Reloaded)
jasperofzeal joe-daddy...Writing is a major part of my work. I ask for a lot of feedback from peers. Generally I get a spell check. Grammatical feedback is of low value to me. The feedback I want is about the accuracy of my content.... You should give some or as much value to grammar as you do to whatever content you're writing about. I had a heck of a time trying to piece your sentence fragments together to get the gist of what you're trying to express. In regards to what the thread is about, a misspelled word does not look as bad as misspelling someone's name. To me, it shows lack of respect to not take the time to ensure that a person's name is spelled correctly. I know MR usually faces up to a mistake in one issue by releasing a correction in the following issue. If they can do it for wrong prototype information or the way a diode is oriented in a given circuit, I'm willing to bet (for their own sake) that they correct the name in question.
In this matter of grammar and syntax I am perhaps guilty of my desire to be a novelist. I tend to notice such things as grammar--I misspelled this word once and brother Brunton called it to my attention--and syntax because I would not want one of my manuscripts to bounce from a potential publisher because of poor grammatical discipline; I could live with it being unpublishable because of content--I would have considerably more trouble dealing with a submission that was rejected as being unreadable. Thirty years ago Brenda Peterson, the then writer-in-residence at ASU who had spent several years on the staff of The New Yorker magazine, said that more manuscripts got an immediate rejection because they were poorly written. Any publisher will expend the necessary time and monies with a proofreader if a submission has above average content but will not expend that time and monies on something at or below average. As an unpublished writer you must read--reread--and then read again before submitting a manuscript because about the time they strike the tenth grammatical error it is going to be headed back to your mailbox with a rejection slip!
I know this is a Model Railroad Forum and not an English 101 Forum because good ole Bergie informed me of that fact one time; nevertheless I find the contents of this forum much more enjoyable reading if I do not have to (mentally) punctuate sentences or (mentally) correct spelling while, at the same time, trying to decipher--another of those words I misspelled on an occasion and which got brought to my attention--the intellectual content of a posting.
Catt I just want "my" old Model Railroader back--the one that taught me much of what I know about this hobby What I find interesting is that the person who started this thread wants the magazine back that taught him so much about this hobby,but he does not want it to teach other people about the hobby. Am I missing something here ?
Yes, I think you are.
The MR of which I speak taught people how to be good model railrroaders, not how to buy ready-made products and plop them down on a sheet of plywood (or foam). It taught the basics in detailed articles with photos and text, not just pictures with call-outs.
MR should be teaching people how to do things, as it used to, not just how to buy things, as it does (primarily) now.
It seems so easy to complain and so hard to make a great Weeping Willow tree in HO. How about showing us some of the great modeling you have learned to do from those great old issues. I could use some help on applying the June, 1950 article on superdetailing a John English Yard Bird. That would be a better use of this forum from my perspective.