Cheap weight material for HO Freight and Passenger cars.

[fwright]

The issue about steel weights over uncoupling magnets is a non-issue until it happens to YOU.  I've learned (don't ask me how!) the following:

- HO scale cars such as Athearn that use steel weights.  Rarely a problem.  You have to have both very free rolling trucks and a very powerful magnet.  Usually, the accidental uncoupling is shrugged off or the magnet removed, unless you hapen to notice that it's always the same car.

- N cars with steel weights.  Often a problem as soon as you replace the trucks or wheels with something that is free rolling.  My best guess is the distance of steel weight to the magnet is the primary factor, with inertia of the car (related to weight) being a secondary factor.

- HOn3.  Haven't run across any cars with steel weights yet.  I expect problems similar to N.

- Lionel.  Once, using a higher than normal voltage on the uncoupling track, I watched a free rollling light weight operating car (with the iron plunger in the center) center itself over the uncoupling magnet.

Cures include:

- Not using permanent magnets for uncoupling.  However, the problem can foul up delayed uncoupling with electromagnets or pivoting permanent under the track magnets, too.

- use something besides iron or steel to weight your cars.  But removal after the fact can be quite difficult - tank cars come to mind.

- don't use free rolling trucks.  However, this impacts train length and the number of cars a loco can pull.

- use rare earth magnets mounted vertically beside and just outside rails, staggered slightly is even better.  The increased distance and the non-centerline component of the magnetic force on the car weight seem to cure the problem.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W

[AntonioFP45]

For the newbie's,

With added weight, metal wheels will really help those car track a lot better.

[Budliner]

that as funny snake
but I dont remeber saying that
now I too find car rim weight and have some shotgun shot
I dont use nickles anymore
K

[tomikawaTT]

I don't know why there's a fuss about weighting cars with steel. My cars, or at least a substantial percentage of them, ARE steel - real honest-to-Murgatroyd tinplate. They have been fitted with Kadee #6 couplers (fit the mounting pad better than #5,) and work perfectly well over Kadee uncoupling magnets.

What I would like to see is a skeleton flat of proper NMRA weight. I think it would have to be machined out of depleted uranium.

Chuck

[doctorwayne]

I get old wheel balancing weights from a local tire shop, if I arrive before the diving crew. I make moulds, using sheet aluminum, to suit individual cars or in predetermined dimensions to yield specific weights, then melt the lead using a propane torch. As noted previously, the main immediate hazard with lead is ingestion. The temperatures required to liquify lead do not release a significant amount of lead vapour: even so, I always wear an appropriate two-stage respirator. I spoke with several employees at a shop that produces ornamental items, such as planters and jardinieres, from molten lead, and none wore respirators, as health and safety rules deemed them unnecessary in those conditions. I also worked in a steel plant that on occasion rolled what we called leaded steel. Significant amounts of lead were used in the steelmaking process for this particular grade. When rolling of this material took place, all were required to wear proper two-stage respirators. I can assure you, the smell of lead at 2350 degrees Fahrenheit is very distinctive and noticeable. Not a hint of that smell in the lead casting shop.
I do my weight casting in my garage, a building separate from the house, and wash up thoroughly when I'm finished.
By the way, I went to the local Canadian Tire store to buy some BBs to use for weight in a sealed brass Vanderbilt tender: you know, drill a hole, pour some in, add some glue and seal it up. Well, you'd think I was buying nuclear missiles. They wanted my name, address, social insurance number, reason for buying, employer, blah, blah, blah. The bad guys can run around with rocket launchers but I get the third degree for trying to buy BBs for ballast. And they call me a train nut. Oh, Canada, you stand on guard against me??

Sorry,
Wayne

[Anonymous]

I use #9 Chilled Leadshot and a 25 pound bag is like a life time supply.

I am not concerned with hazards, if there was a fire in the house I would either die inside or get out alive one way or the other. The amount of chemicals (Cleaning supplies etc) in the home is already enough as it is.

I did try pennies but they did bulk up in the wrong places and raised the center of gravity too much.

[AntonioFP45]

ScubaTerry......

Great idea about drilling a hole in the bottom of tank cars and filling them with weight! I'm going to do that with mine.

Thanks!

(BTW: Pennies are too valueable. Recently my wife cashed in pennies she'd been tossing in a box for over a year. To our shock the amount came up to $28.00!! ......I'll stick to BBs!

[Anonymous]

#9 lead shot is the cheapest bang for the buck I've found. If you go to the right store it's $20 for 25 pounds. #9 is small enough that it fills better than BB sized ones.

Greg

[easyaces]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Snake

QUOTE: Originally posted by BUDLINER

why do I use nickels

Okay, I'll guess...

• You don't like the color of pennies.
• You want your cars to be worth more.
• Nickels are bigger than pennies and bigger is better.
• You like to add more than 2¢ worth.
• You like Jefferson's profile picture more than Lincoln's.
• You prefer the profile pictures that face left rather than to the right.
• You like Jefferson's house more than the Lincoln Memorial.
• You prefer metal alloys over pure metals.
• You think 3rd is a higher ranking than 16th. Jefferson was the 3rd president and Lincoln was the 16th.
• The Jefferson nickel has been minted since 1938, the first Lincoln penny was issued in 1909, the 100th anniversary of Lincoln's birth and you think newer (1938) is better than older (1909).
• You prefer "E PLURIBUS UNUM" a the top of the coin.
• You think "A penny for your thoughts..." sounds cheap.
• Your rich and don't know what to do with all your nickels.

[:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

NOW THATS FUNNY![:D][;)]

[jxtrrx]

Which weighs more? $2.00 worth of BBs or 200 pennies?

[Supermicha]

A friend of mine had another good idea. For balancing alloy wheel rims, car shops use small self adhesive lead pads. These lead pads are forbidden in Germany since this year beacause of new environmental rules, so the car shops have lots of them over. I got a big package from one, they come in 10 and 5 gram pads and are good for HO scale cars. Maybe you know what i mean, and i´m sure these pads are also used in the United States...

[scubaterry]

I'm a Scuba Inst and have lots of lead shot bags for my weightbelts that have worn out. The shot is about 1/3 smaller than BB shot. With my gondolas I turn them over and fill all the nooks and crannies with the lead shot and dribble glue over it to secure them. Once the glue dries and it is setting on the track the lead shot is not noticible. I have a couple of tankers that are RTR and not easily taken apart so I drill a small hole in the bottom of the tank and pour in the lead shot followed by a shot of liquid glue. I just make sure I don't pick my nose while working with it and wash my hands when finished.. Boxcars I usually use pennies as they are typically plentiful around the house.
Terry[8D]

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robenglandHow about depleted uranium? It has been done at least once in the past, in a HO diesel

As I read the various schemes above I wondered how long it would be before depleted uranium was mentioned, due to its greater density as compared to lead.

A good source would the many spent anti-tank projectiles scattered around places like Iraq! They are a concern to the military and civil authorities in such countries, even though only mildly radioactive. Deplete uranium was used in the counterweights for the C5 Galaxy aircraft, we had to take special precautions in machining and handling it.

If I had one of those HO diesels mentioned by Rob I would speedily hand it over to the appropriate authorities for proper disposal, like expired smoke detectors.

[TomDiehl]

An odd thing I found in the scrap at work is lead sheets in .010 and .030 inch thick. These are used as screens in the x-ray film cassettes, and has to be removed before the old cassettes are disposed. I cut the sheets to 1 inch width with a utility knife, and cut the strips to length with a pair of shears, so there's no lead dust from the cutting process. The .030 thick sheet weighs about .2 ounces per square inch. Just glue it inside the car.

[loathar]

As you know weight is a direct result from the magnetic pull of the earth. If you have a magnet mounted between tracks when a car using steel or other magnetic material passes over the magnet it becomes momentarily "heavier" due to the magnetic pull.
Ummm.. WEIGHT is proporsional to the Earths gravity.Not it's magnetic feild.
I've used drapery weights, hammered flat fishing sinkers and shot gun reloading shot.
(It's smaller and heavier than BB's)[2c]

[ndbprr]

I use plain old soupy plaster in box cars, tank cars, covered hoppers and hoppers that get loads. Just pour it in and it will form to the space available. Any that leaks out through seams can be wiped away with a damp rag after it dries. haven't tried it on passenger cars but no reason why the area between the center sills couldn't have some added.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mark_in_utah

For weight I've been using shotgun shot and mixing it with white glue mixed with water and alcohol. I was able to get 10 pounds of the stuff for less than $10. You can get it in lead or steel, and it's a LOT cheaper by the pound than BB's. For the best load density you want the smallest shot (largest shot number). #8's or 9's are good.
As for the dangers with lead, lead is "safe" as long as you don't ingest it! Make sure you thoroughly wash your hands after using it.
The proper weighting of cars is important in getting reliable operation of your cars. As I remember the rule of thumb is 1 ounce plus 1/2 ounce per inch of car weight for HO scale cars.
For coal cars, the best I've found is filling the car with coal and gluing it in place with the white glue mizture. What's better in modeling a coal train than hauling actual coal?? It makes the cars heay, but is that so bad? Mark in Utah

[#ditto]
I still have most of a bag I bought over ten years ago. It's a life time supply. Just be careful not to spill any. Have a catch tray under the project. They roll everywhere are a S.O.B. to find. I know, a few got away from me. As mark said, wash you hands after handling as you should with all lead products. Even solder that contains lead. Keep it in a tight, break proof container and out of reach of children and pets.

[bgrossman]

As a retired chemist, I'd like to put my two cents in on the lead/depleted uranium weight issue. The problem with lead is not its immediate hazard, but its ultimate disposal. Sad as it may be to think about it, but the cars may end up in a landfill or incinerator where the lead may get into the environment through leaching or vaporization. Steel or other metals are the safest bet.

Depleted uranium still has some residual radioactivity, and uranium can act as a heavy metal poison. Google the issue of expended depleted uranium munitions in Iraq or Kuwait to see more about this.

Bernie

[jwr_1986]

I have access to a sheet metal shop that makes duct work. They do specialty work and a whole 4X8 sheet is laid on a plasma cutter. The plan for the parts loaded into a coputer and the machine cuts out the pieces beutifully. the problem, what to do with the sprue (to put it into modelling terms) thats left over. A local scrap dealer gets it but a corner here and there is certainly not missed. The 26 Ga. steel is easily cut with tin snips and can be glued and stacked together for the desired weight. it have to say I think I would prefer #6 lead shot and I might switch to that.

Jesse

[Anonymous]

I have been using fishing wieghts. 50 cents for 4 ounces[:D] I looked for BBs but could only find a little carton about the size of a roll of quarters and it cost $2.50. 5 packs of fishing wieghts are much heavier than one little carton of BBs

[underworld]

BBs are a great idea! I've used solder scrap myself.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[RdgLines2124]

There is another material that can be used for adding weight if space is limited, but it doesn't meet the "cheap" criteria. Golfsmith (www.golfsmith.com) sells tungsten powder for use in weighting golf clubs (another of my hobbies is building golf clubs). Tungsten is 1 1/2 times as dense as lead. The price is $16.95 for a 1/2 pound jar. Like I said - not cheap!

[mcouvillion]

Why don't you guys use the adhesive lead weights and get them at auto supply houses? You can get a box (7-8 lbs) for about $22.00, they are stamped in either 1/4 oz or 1/2 oz sections on each piece, they have adhesive backing already attached, and you can stack them on top of each other in the rolling stock. It's not like you are handling a huge amount of lead dust, you barely need to touch them to place them where they are needed. Simple, quick, accurate (for NMRA recommended practice), done. You are not going to get that much lead on your fingers. You probably inhale more lead as fumes when soldering than you will pick up on your fingers by handling the weights!

Mark C.

[Anonymous]

Modern clip on wheel weights used in the automitive industry are coated with a plastic sealer to prevent damaging corrosion to alloy rims. Most local tire shops will be happy to give a few handfulls of used weights to a potential customer (or even better a current customer). Pep Boys and possably other national chains have recyceling programs and do not give the old weights away.

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

What problems are you having with the Kadee track magnets? Basically, cars loaded with steel metal weights shouldn't interfere with the magnet at all if the weights are secure, be it flat or ball bearing.

Could you give us some details please? I would like to know of any potential problems.

The problem with steel weights and Kadee uncoupling magnets is most noticeable if you try to drop a single car at the magnet location (two or more don't seem to be a problem). If that car is at all free-rolling, it will "chase" the engine that's spotting the car -- sometimes fast enough to recouple as the engine moves away. I've particularly noticed this phenomenon with hoppers. Maybe the angle of the weights relative to the track has something to do with it.

Chuck

[Virginian]

Mark has the correct answer. Lead shot. Since I was reloading shotgun shells before I was into model rr'ing I have used that since day one. As long as you don't eat it mixed with some kind of grit material so it gets broken up in your craw, or lick any dust off your fingers, lead shot isn't going to hurt you.

[Anonymous]

I usually use Polyfilla, a cellulose reinforced plaster used to fill holes in walls. Mix with water and spoon in enough - put the wagon on a scale, first, if you wish. Cheap, easy, safe and effective.

Allan Lees

[jimrice4449]

I'll second (or third or fourth) the bird shot. I bought a 25# bag decades (literally) ago and I've still got almost half a coffee can of the stuff left. I keep a supply of 1/4" styrene I beams around to build retaining walls for it and seal it with Envirotech resin. For hoppers I load an appropriate amount in the bottom of the hopper wells, seal it, and after the envirotech resin dries (sometimes days) I spray the interior with paint to match the exterior color and it pretty well disappears.

[AntonioFP45]

Mark_In_Utah,

O.K You offer an interesting point. Once I run out of BBs, I'll try the "shotgun shot" as from what you are saying, it is smaller and can fill addional nooks and crannies that BB pellets don't fit into.

Nice thing about this forum.................always good ideas to be found!!

Peace and thanks