Cheap weight material for HO Freight and Passenger cars.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Everyone,

I've read the threads from a few weeks ago covering weights. Very good input from many of you all.

Yesterday, I went to WAL-MART and from the Sporting Goods section, I found and purchased a carton of: DAISY 1,500 Premium Grade BBs. They come in a small, dark blue milk carton. This little carton is HEAVY! Cost $2.52! Since these BBs are "zinc plated", rust won't be an issue. IMHO, that's a pretty good deal.

These BBs are excellent car weight material! Today, I took apart one of my 85ft. Rivorossi passenger cars. Rivorossis, while great looking cars, are notoriously "featherweight". I filled in all of the pockets in the car floor with the BBs. I put the car on my test track. Results: Smoother rolling and no more bouncing. I plan on doing the same to my Athearn Center Flow and Covered Hoppers. Only other material needed is Elmer's glue mixed with water to hold the BBs in place.

In the past, I've often found in many cases that the flat steel weights from Athearn and MDC are not enough , so combined with the BBs (if there are floor pockets), it can work out pretty well! 

Hope this helps some of you going through similar car weight problems!

Peace out and God Bless!

[Anonymous]

Well, I had the same problem with Athearn cars so I wadded up some solder placed it on top of the metal plate and let a few drops of Gorilla glue flow over it. It glued solid overnight, metal to metal.
Bryant

[mvlandsw]

For covered hoppers or any closed car there is any even cheaper weight. I have used sand held in place with white glue. It takes a few days for the glue to harden but the weight is free. This works for loaded open hoppers too if you don't want to fill the entire car with the load material. Put the sand or even common dirt in the bottom and add a top layer of the expensive coal.

[Anonymous]

I've used BBs and small fishing sinkers-BBs are much cheaper-and attached them to the floor of the car w/ slow setting gap filling CA (super glue). If I need a thick layer I'll use 5-minute epoxy instead. This also works if anyone is building a model airplane w/tricycle landing gear-usually without any added weight , the plane will lift its nose wheel and sit on its butt; some bbs and CA or epoxy in the nose cures that quickly. I've also used automobile wheel balancing weights-both the clip on type and the newer stick on type for alloy wheels. Tire stores usually throw away any weights removed from a customer's car when the wheels are being rebalanced. Usually they're free for the asking. They are made out of a very soft alloy and can be easily rimmed to suit your needs. Often they will have the amount they weigh embosed on them, too.

[emdgp92]

I use the weights meant to align wheels on cars. You can find them near any pothole..and we dont' have a shortage of those here in PA :D

[dano99a]

I use penny's or a sling shot pellet.
Hey, it work's... [:)]

[rambo1]

You can even use weights that balance the tires on your car just becareful to wash your hands after handeling them they are lead! rambo1....

[Budliner]

why do I use nickels

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BUDLINER

why do I use nickels

Okay, I'll guess...

• You don't like the color of pennies.
• You want your cars to be worth more.
• Nickels are bigger than pennies and bigger is better.
• You like to add more than 2¢ worth.
• You like Jefferson's profile picture more than Lincoln's.
• You prefer the profile pictures that face left rather than to the right.
• You like Jefferson's house more than the Lincoln Memorial.
• You prefer metal alloys over pure metals.
• You think 3rd is a higher ranking than 16th. Jefferson was the 3rd president and Lincoln was the 16th.
• The Jefferson nickel has been minted since 1938, the first Lincoln penny was issued in 1909, the 100th anniversary of Lincoln's birth and you think newer (1938) is better than older (1909).
• You prefer "E PLURIBUS UNUM" a the top of the coin.
• You think "A penny for your thoughts..." sounds cheap.
• Your rich and don't know what to do with all your nickels.

[:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D] [:D]

[lyctus]

I have opted for the expensive sheet lead option available from a hardware store which looks after builders. The lead is used for roof flashing. I use it despite the dire warnings of brain damage 'cos it don't worry the under track magnets which I use for Kadee couplers. I do wash up after a cutting session to get lead off my hands. I paint the cut/drilled sheets and store 'em for use as I build cars. I would consider other form of weights if convenient/non-magnetic stuff was readily and economically available.
Lead is a dangerous material. Don't use it without being prepared to wash up after handling. Why do car manufacturers use magnetic material in their cars ? Bugs me that I have to use alternative stuff to reach recommended car weight.

[AntonioFP45]

Lyctus,

Lead is not very healthy to handle as I used to work with it in the transit business. I was happy when alternatives were adopted!

What problems are you having with the Kadee track magnets? Basically, cars loaded with steel metal weights shouldn't interfere with the magnet at all if the weights are secure, be it flat or ball bearing.

Could you give us some details please? I would like to know of any potential problems.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lyctus

Why do car manufacturers use magnetic material in their cars ? Bugs me that I have to use alternative stuff to reach recommended car weight.

Why do you have to use alternative stuff to reach recommended car weight?

Antonio said that BB gun bb's work well and are reasonably priced. BB's are made of steel (or they used to be), which can become magnetized like the end of a screw driver.

I thought lead was the preferred material as it is heavier for the mass, i.e. smaller pieces/amounts could be used to achieve the desired weight, and it is not attracted to magnetic uncouplers.

If you don't use magnetic uncouplers why not use steel bb's, as Antonio does, or some other material that is safer than lead?

I posted in a similar subject that, "you can get lead shot from your local gun shop". However, due to the hazards of lead, they also sell steel bb shot.

I use lead shot because of the weight/mass thingy and I use magnetic uncouplers. The benefits of using shotgun bb shot, lead or steal, is; 1. you can get smaller sized bb's which can be hidden easier in the under frame of rolling stock, and 2. It is cheaper than using pennies. The down side to buying shotgun reloading bb's is that in order to get it priced lower than using pennies you must buy a lifetime supply - 25 lb bag or more!!

See similar post "Car Weights" http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14065

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Lyctus,

Lead is dangerous as I used to work with it in the transit business. I was happy when alternatives were adopted!

What problems are you having with the Kadee track magnets? Basically, cars loaded with steel metal weights shouldn't interfere with the magnet at all if the weights are secure, be it flat or ball bearing.

Could you give us some details please? I would like to know of any potential problems.

You're right, lead is hazardous/dangerous and magnetic material does not interfere with the intended use of the magnet.

My [2c] ...

As you know weight is a direct result from the magnetic pull of the earth. If you have a magnet mounted between tracks when a car using steel or other magnetic material passes over the magnet it becomes momentarily "heavier" due to the magnetic pull.

IMHO, if you spend the time to weight your cars so they are the "correct" scale weight, then pass them over a magnet which will make them weigh as much as 2-3 times more, it seems useless to spend the time and money adding the weight in the first place.

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lyctus

I have opted for the expensive sheet lead option available from a hardware store which looks after builders. The lead is used for roof flashing. I use it despite the dire warnings of brain damage 'cos it don't worry the under track magnets which I use for Kadee couplers. I do wash up after a cutting session to get lead off my hands. I paint the cut/drilled sheets and store 'em for use as I build cars. I would consider other form of weights if convenient/non-magnetic stuff was readily and economically available.
Lead is a dangerous material. Don't use it without being prepared to wash up after handling. Why do car manufacturers use magnetic material in their cars ? Bugs me that I have to use alternative stuff to reach recommended car weight.

Or you could just use disposable, latex gloves like the Docs do.

[Jetrock]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Snake
As you know weight is a direct result from the magnetic pull of the earth. If you have a magnet mounted between tracks when a car using steel or other magnetic material passes over the magnet it becomes momentarily "heavier" due to the magnetic pull.

IMHO, if you spend the time to weight your cars so they are the "correct" scale weight, then pass them over a magnet which will make them weigh as much as 2-3 times more, it seems useless to spend the time and money adding the weight in the first place.

um, no, weight is not a result of the magnetic pull of the Earth--if this were the case, non-ferrous materials (like you and I) would be weightless! Weight is a function of gravity, which is a fundamentally different type of force than electromagnetism. The Earth also has a magnetic field (which is why compasses work) due to the large amount of iron spinning around in the Earth's core, but that doesn't have anything to do with gravity.

Your comment about magnets making things "heavier" doesn't replace weight added to the cars--this would only make sense if the entire underside of the layout was magnetized, which would probably have some pretty serious consequences for metal objects in the room, like electric motors in your engines, your hobby tools, your kid sister's braces, etcetera. Most people who use magnets under the track only use them as uncouplers in a few select places, rather than all over--so magnets certainly wouldn't replace weights in cars. Also, the action of magnets is not to make things heavier (gravity and electromagnetic force are not the same, remember) but to draw ferrous objects towards it--the car would be tugged toward the magnet when approaching it and tugged back in its direction when moving away from it.

[AntonioFP45]

By the way,

Guys, don't most Athearn Blue Box cars use a steel weight underneath their boxcars? Doesn't seem to cause any problems.

I ran trains with a friend back in the 70s. During switching operations trains ran smoothly over the magnets. When running at slow speeds, there was no hesitation or lurching from freight cars that had the factory steel weight from Athearn.

Remember, the Kadee uncoupling magnet that's placed into the track is not very powerful! It only has enough magnetism to move and uncouple the knuckle coupler trip pins..........that's it.

I'm continuing to fill my Center Flow and Covered Hoppers with BB shots. It's been working out well!

Peace!

[Anonymous]

For weight I've been using shotgun shot and mixing it with white glue mixed with water and alcohol. I was able to get 10 pounds of the stuff for less than $10. You can get it in lead or steel, and it's a LOT cheaper by the pound than BB's. For the best load density you want the smallest shot (largest shot number). #8's or 9's are good.

As for the dangers with lead, lead is "safe" as long as you don't ingest it! Make sure you thoroughly wash your hands after using it.

The proper weighting of cars is important in getting reliable operation of your cars. As I remember the rule of thumb is 1 ounce plus 1/2 ounce per inch of car weight for HO scale cars.

For coal cars, the best I've found is filling the car with coal and gluing it in place with the white glue mizture. What's better in modeling a coal train than hauling actual coal?? It makes the cars heay, but is that so bad?

Mark in Utah

[robengland]

An acquaintance of mine has been casting lead fishing sinkers weekly at home for 25 years. Recently tested for lead in his blood: normal levels. Don't file it, sand it or smelt it; wash your hands after playing with it; and you should be OK. We used to be too blase about substances in the past. Now I think sometimes we go too far the other way.
How about depleted uranium? It has been done at least once in the past, in a HO diesel

[AntonioFP45]

Mark_In_Utah,

O.K You offer an interesting point. Once I run out of BBs, I'll try the "shotgun shot" as from what you are saying, it is smaller and can fill addional nooks and crannies that BB pellets don't fit into.

Nice thing about this forum.................always good ideas to be found!!

Peace and thanks

[jimrice4449]

I'll second (or third or fourth) the bird shot. I bought a 25# bag decades (literally) ago and I've still got almost half a coffee can of the stuff left. I keep a supply of 1/4" styrene I beams around to build retaining walls for it and seal it with Envirotech resin. For hoppers I load an appropriate amount in the bottom of the hopper wells, seal it, and after the envirotech resin dries (sometimes days) I spray the interior with paint to match the exterior color and it pretty well disappears.

[Anonymous]

I usually use Polyfilla, a cellulose reinforced plaster used to fill holes in walls. Mix with water and spoon in enough - put the wagon on a scale, first, if you wish. Cheap, easy, safe and effective.

Allan Lees

[Virginian]

Mark has the correct answer. Lead shot. Since I was reloading shotgun shells before I was into model rr'ing I have used that since day one. As long as you don't eat it mixed with some kind of grit material so it gets broken up in your craw, or lick any dust off your fingers, lead shot isn't going to hurt you.

[cefinkjr]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

What problems are you having with the Kadee track magnets? Basically, cars loaded with steel metal weights shouldn't interfere with the magnet at all if the weights are secure, be it flat or ball bearing.

Could you give us some details please? I would like to know of any potential problems.

The problem with steel weights and Kadee uncoupling magnets is most noticeable if you try to drop a single car at the magnet location (two or more don't seem to be a problem). If that car is at all free-rolling, it will "chase" the engine that's spotting the car -- sometimes fast enough to recouple as the engine moves away. I've particularly noticed this phenomenon with hoppers. Maybe the angle of the weights relative to the track has something to do with it.

Chuck

[Anonymous]

Modern clip on wheel weights used in the automitive industry are coated with a plastic sealer to prevent damaging corrosion to alloy rims. Most local tire shops will be happy to give a few handfulls of used weights to a potential customer (or even better a current customer). Pep Boys and possably other national chains have recyceling programs and do not give the old weights away.

[mcouvillion]

Why don't you guys use the adhesive lead weights and get them at auto supply houses? You can get a box (7-8 lbs) for about $22.00, they are stamped in either 1/4 oz or 1/2 oz sections on each piece, they have adhesive backing already attached, and you can stack them on top of each other in the rolling stock. It's not like you are handling a huge amount of lead dust, you barely need to touch them to place them where they are needed. Simple, quick, accurate (for NMRA recommended practice), done. You are not going to get that much lead on your fingers. You probably inhale more lead as fumes when soldering than you will pick up on your fingers by handling the weights!

Mark C.

[RdgLines2124]

There is another material that can be used for adding weight if space is limited, but it doesn't meet the "cheap" criteria. Golfsmith (www.golfsmith.com) sells tungsten powder for use in weighting golf clubs (another of my hobbies is building golf clubs). Tungsten is 1 1/2 times as dense as lead. The price is $16.95 for a 1/2 pound jar. Like I said - not cheap!

[underworld]

BBs are a great idea! I've used solder scrap myself.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

I have been using fishing wieghts. 50 cents for 4 ounces[:D] I looked for BBs but could only find a little carton about the size of a roll of quarters and it cost $2.50. 5 packs of fishing wieghts are much heavier than one little carton of BBs

[jwr_1986]

I have access to a sheet metal shop that makes duct work. They do specialty work and a whole 4X8 sheet is laid on a plasma cutter. The plan for the parts loaded into a coputer and the machine cuts out the pieces beutifully. the problem, what to do with the sprue (to put it into modelling terms) thats left over. A local scrap dealer gets it but a corner here and there is certainly not missed. The 26 Ga. steel is easily cut with tin snips and can be glued and stacked together for the desired weight. it have to say I think I would prefer #6 lead shot and I might switch to that.

Jesse

[bgrossman]

As a retired chemist, I'd like to put my two cents in on the lead/depleted uranium weight issue. The problem with lead is not its immediate hazard, but its ultimate disposal. Sad as it may be to think about it, but the cars may end up in a landfill or incinerator where the lead may get into the environment through leaching or vaporization. Steel or other metals are the safest bet.

Depleted uranium still has some residual radioactivity, and uranium can act as a heavy metal poison. Google the issue of expended depleted uranium munitions in Iraq or Kuwait to see more about this.

Bernie