Do you belong to the NMRA?

[NEMMRRC]

So is Malcolm Furlow an NMRA member?
Jaime

[mfifer]

 Maybe if I hit those lucky 7 lotto numbers I'll become a lifer, if for nothing else to be an agitator in large scale

Now theres the spirit!

[vsmith]

I have N inside and G outside. I think the NMRA has done a fine job with N Scale and what they need most , is likely , participation by G Scalers who can make their case's.

I wouldn't disagree with that, as I said there are several avid large scalers high up in the NMRA today, but given the late start I fear its a "Sisyphean task".

At its current price of admission I'm also simply priced out, its way too high for my budget. Maybe if I hit those lucky 7 lotto numbers I'll become a lifer, if for nothing else to be an agitator in large scale

[Texas Zepher]

What an encyclopedic litany of excuses and justifications.....You don't want to join the NMRA? Fine -- fortunately for you the organization and its volunteers freely share the standards work so that everyone benefits. Just spare us the lame excuses and self-righteous posturing.

Yeesh, maybe I don't want to join!

[mfifer]

 With the demise of 1/22.5 LGB, 1/20.3 F and Fn3 scale will likely gain new product lines, as will the "not-correct" 1/29 scale which has become the defacto "standard" of standard guage. There will always be a presence by the remaining LGB product line, but the long term trend is that we will end up with less scales in the new product line, 1/20.3 for narrow gauge, 1/29 for standard gauge, some finescale 1/32, and a few beautique 1/22.5 items from Europe. But the NMRA I see as having almost no real impact on any of this, this even though many members are now today avid large scalers. Overall, I beleive they are just too focused on HO and N.

Interesting outlook.  I have been HO (basement) since my college days in the late 50's, so I am certainly focused on HO.  I have been building an outdoor large scale layout since 1989, and in fact just spent a good part of two weeks working on it, while the HO sits.  I find I can make time for two scales, two layouts, do my honey dos and still work at my profession.

I guess I am focused, but on the hobby itself.

Bob

I have N inside and G outside. I think the NMRA has done a fine job with N Scale and what they need most , is likely , participation by G Scalers who can make their case's. I know this is true with N Scale in ANY model railroad orgaization.

I personaly do not ask anything for my membership other than to offer the support and thanks to those who are meeting with the industry giants to standardize and iron out and establish answers to issues.

Thanks to all of you guys , in or out. This was meant to be for my own quriosity and not for a bash party.

WE ARE ALL MODEL RAILROADERS , LEST WE WOULD NOT BE READING THIS

[vsmith]

Hi Bob sent you a PM as not to the subject

[pastorbob]

 With the demise of 1/22.5 LGB, 1/20.3 F and Fn3 scale will likely gain new product lines, as will the "not-correct" 1/29 scale which has become the defacto "standard" of standard guage. There will always be a presence by the remaining LGB product line, but the long term trend is that we will end up with less scales in the new product line, 1/20.3 for narrow gauge, 1/29 for standard gauge, some finescale 1/32, and a few beautique 1/22.5 items from Europe. But the NMRA I see as having almost no real impact on any of this, this even though many members are now today avid large scalers. Overall, I beleive they are just too focused on HO and N.

Interesting outlook.  I have been HO (basement) since my college days in the late 50's, so I am certainly focused on HO.  I have been building an outdoor large scale layout since 1989, and in fact just spent a good part of two weeks working on it, while the HO sits.  I find I can make time for two scales, two layouts, do my honey dos and still work at my profession.

I guess I am focused, but on the hobby itself.

Bob

[vsmith]

NMRA, nope, like others have said, just not anything in it for me. Now that said a few caviets:

I'm indoors, building a traditional benchwork and scenery model train layout, but in large scale. The NMRA has almost always been 80% geared towards HO and N, the rest geared to O, and S scales. Large scale has always been treated by the NMRA like an orange haired orphan child that nobody wanted. If they had instead of disparaging large scale garden railways (Plastic in the Petunias, was the discription I most remember) way back in the very early days, late 1980's, maybe they could have had an impact on the myriad of scales that have since come to run on G guage track, but for the longest time they just didnt seam to take it seriously, until come the late 1990's early 2000's they find its grown tremendously, try to step in and impose some sort of a declaration of standards with the intention of hitching their wagon to the large scale horse, only to find the barn door open and the horse long gone. Pity, we could sure use some standardized practices, but the way they approached the whole LS movement I'm not surprised both the manufacturers and the hobbyiest themselves have turned a cold shoulder to them. As it is today they may be talking but nobody's hearing them.

Now like I said, I have not been able to find any reason for me to spend the money asked, to join an organization that still to this day appears to consider my scale a fringe, perhaps we are but I think large scalers will have better luck working with the manufacturers directly thru the market place to get some sort of standardizations applied. 

With the demise of 1/22.5 LGB, 1/20.3 F and Fn3 scale will likely gain new product lines, as will the "not-correct" 1/29 scale which has become the defacto "standard" of standard guage. There will always be a presence by the remaining LGB product line, but the long term trend is that we will end up with less scales in the new product line, 1/20.3 for narrow gauge, 1/29 for standard gauge, some finescale 1/32, and a few beautique 1/22.5 items from Europe. But the NMRA I see as having almost no real impact on any of this, this even though many members are now today avid large scalers. Overall, I beleive they are just too focused on HO and N.

[cuyama]

Sorry I offended folks with my earlier comments.

Here's what I probably should have said: On balance, I personally think the NMRA is worth the money and time for me. If you don't think so, you don't need any other reason. It's not at all my intention to be condescending to those who are not NMRA members. That's a personal choice everyone is free to make, no skin off my nose. My comments were ill-advised, but were directed at justifications for non-membership that I felt didn't hold up. Just my opinion and sorry that some felt personally insulted. Forums and email are a tricky medium sometimes.

Mark, I do recognize that there are other standards, for wheels and flanges, for example. But I think most would concede that the majority of modelers are reasonably well-served with the NMRA's RPs and standards. In my experience, most Proto:87 and other finescale modelers are not focused on building a medium-to-large layout and thus may have the time to devote to making these standards work. I've also seen a number of folks set out with great intentions in Proto:87 and have the whole layout project founder because of the additional challenges to smooth operation. In any case, if the RPs weren't there as a starting point, the hobby would be a lot less further along, IMHO.

Standards promulgation is messy, imprecise work. I've been involved with enough of it in the computer networking world to know that what comes out at the end is always less-than-optimal. Standards-setting in every field is as often a political as a technical process. But the fact that standards exist usually greatly benefits the consumer, even if they aren't the theoretically most perfect solution. I won't attempt to argue the point that the DCC standards are optimized. They're not, and they don't have to be to be helpful to the majority of modelers.

I personally receive a number of benefits from NMRA membership. I've met lots of great people. I've had a chance, through NMRA-sponsored layout tours, to visit some of the very best layouts in the world. The local region works with the Layout Design SIG and Operations SIG to put on a great annual meeting here in the bay area. The Regional NMRA convention is also very good every year. Many (not all) of the more creative and engaging modelers in this area are NMRA members, so it works well. It's a shame that not everyone has the same happy circumstance. I have also enjoyed the handful of National NMRA Conventions I have attended.

Beyond those benefits, the way I figure it, without some degree of standardization, the hobby would be a lot more expensive to me in time and money. So there's tangible value in my participation. Contributing to the NMRA helps the hobby, which helps me.

Bottom line, lots of good reasons to join. But you're still a fine person if you choose not to join. I've said more than my share and I'll leave you all to the debate.

[rogerhensley]

I've been a member for 28 years (1980). I was the NMRA Webmaster for a period of time and will say that the NMRA may not be for everyone. However, that said, I think that people need to have been a member before that can say that there is nothing in it for them.

 

Standards

DCC Standards

Division activities

Division and Regional Newsletters

Scale Rails

The "Introduction to Model Railroading" web site

The Achievement Program

 

And, yes, I could go on, but I think that is enough. :-)

 

[AlreadyInUse]

Absolutely. I joined before I even started building a layout. Scale Rails is an great magazine. I regularly attend division meetings and have learned a huge amount from the other members.

[wjstix]

I'm a Lone Wolf and an NMRA member (at least I think I am...come to think of it, I haven't seen a copy of "Scale Rails" for a while). Even loners like me go to train shows and flea markets, so it's no difference going once a year to a regional or local NMRA meet. BTW the set-up is different than in past years, joining the NMRA automagically makes you a member of your region. You don't have to do two set of dues etc. like in the past.

[jfallon]

  Yes, I have been a member for almost ten years now. The area in which I live has no nearby model railroad clubs with a "permanent" layout, so the Tidewater Division of the NMRA has filled that fellowship void. We have a modular railroad group in HO scale that sets up layouts several times a year. We run at train shows when they come down here (fewer and fewer), but get much more enjoyment setting up at area assisted living facilities. The trains are a big hit with residents and their families.

       In addition to the module group, division members have built display layouts at the Suffolk Visitors Center and at the Norfolk History Museum. These are maintained by the division, keeping them running and providing something for those who have no home layout somewhere to work and run trains. The division has also helped to build HO scale models of city areas for use in simulations training for the Virginia Beach Police Department. We are also active with the Boy Scouts, providing certification for the Model Railroading Merit Badge.

     The division's big activity for the year is our annual train show, usually held in September. This is our main revenue source for the division. We make a large donation of train sets to the Marine Corps Toys for Tots campaign at the show each year and provide display space for  other model railroad groups, Operation Lifesaver, and other community organizations.

     In short, I am an NMRA member because of the local division. While we do have disagreements with the NMRA national organization, we support the mission to promote the hobby. We have taken on the role as the face of the NMRA in our area and enjoy working towards that end.

[dwRavenstar]

No, I don't belong to the NMRA nor do I belong to the local club.  No reason for either situation, it's just not a path that suits me.

Some have stated thanks for the established Standards while others have pointed to them (the Standards) and explained reasons that thanks are due.

Don't the Standards serve the marketplace as well as the hobby as a whole?  The manufacturers develop and produce products hoping to turn a profit.  Growth of the hobby creates a need for those products.  If there were no Standards each producer would have to invest more money and effort into development and advertising than currently required, resulting in costs even greater than those we already face.  Competition in the market has already created better models, greater detail and new technology, all within the constraints of the Standards.  Lacking the accepted norms one might find a product that completely tops anything you currently have in use and your options would be either live without or ditch everything and start over.  Neither option would enhance or expand the membership of our hobby.

I don't view the Standards as dictating what I do with my layout but as answers to questions I'll never have because I won't have to face the situations that caused their creation.  Mother of invention and all that.  The life blood of this hobby is desire.  Stomp that into the ground by any means and all the Standards in the world won't be worth a twisted piece of brass track.

dwRavenstar

[CSXDixieLine]

Thank you--your post clearly reflects the exact tone that keeps me away from the NMRA. Jamie

Harsh. Unless you're looking for another excuse, I honestly can't see why my tone would keep you away. I personally don't care a bit if you don't join the NMRA. My comments were directed to those who trump up justifications not to join. But I guess any old excuse in a storm ....

Personally, I've put in lots of hours on NMRA- and SIG-related volunteer projects -- my choice, and I hope it helped the hobby in some miniscule way. You certainly don't have to -- it is a hobby after all. And like anything else that involves people, some contribute and some don't. Fine by me if one chooses not too ... I just wish folks would be more up-front about their reasons.

I am not trying to be harsh, just responding to your non-trivial accusation that non-members have been mooching off of the NMRA all these years. Your posts are highly condescending towards non-NMRA members, which is the exact welcome I have received from your peers consistently over the last 20 years since I first explored membership. You call us "sport." You label the reason for not joining as an "excuse," implying that you see membership as an obligation on our behalf. You call our reasons "lame." You discount our bad experiences as one time events from 20 years ago. All I did was quote your post and you labelled my response "harsh." Can you see how this feels from the other side of the table?

I am not trying to launch a thread battle here, so I won't prolong my point of view on this issue beyond this post. My point is very simple. The NMRA may be a great organization that I would really enjoy, but if so then your sales pitch needs a whole lot of work. Jamie

[el-capitan]

As I alluded in a previous post, the NMRA are not the only organisation to develop and promote wheel and track standards.

 Mark, could you expand on the other organizations that have these standards. I've always used the NMRA standards because they were in a binder that was given to me by my dad, but I am curious to know what else is out there.

 Thanks.

[marknewton]

Byron, if anyone is guilty of being self-righteous, it would be you, based on your comments. There's not one single response to the OPs question where the poster has claimed to be a rebel, so you're twisting people's words to support your position, as well.

There are modellers like myself, who aren't in the mainstream, for whom the NMRA doesn't offer anything that would make it worth our while to join, or support. That's not a "lame excuse", that's a fact. I have no interest in, or use for, conventions, layout tours, publications and the like, so these provide no incentive for me to join.

And whether you choose to acknowledge the fact or not, over the years the NMRA has been riven by factional feuds, infighting and politics, which many people quite reasonably find off-putting. When that reason is cited, dismissing it as a lame justification suggests to me that you're being less than open and honest yourself.

I don't use NMRA wheel and track standards, so your claim that I should "thank the NMRA -- and the volunteers who made it happen" doesn't stand scrutiny. As I alluded in a previous post, the NMRA are not the only organisation to develop and promote wheel and track standards. You have a very narrow view of the hobby if that's what you think the situation is.

And as far as standards go, I don't believe that RP-25 is anywhere near the optimum standard for HO anyway, so I couldn't really give a toss how much work the NMRA and it's volunteers have put into it. It's not the only game in town, as you seem to think.

As for command control standards, that's an interesting issue I'll happily debate in a separate thread. But if your attitude is typical of NMRA partisans, I can see why so many posters here are reluctant to become involved.

Cheers,

Mark.

[cuyama]

<deleted>

Sorry I offended some with my post.

[el-capitan]

... 

You don't want to join the NMRA? Fine -- fortunately for you the organization and its volunteers freely share the standards work so that everyone benefits. Just spare us the lame excuses and self-righteous posturing.

Byron, NMRA member since 1995 or therabouts

Thank you--your post clearly reflects the exact tone that keeps me away from the NMRA. Jamie

Ditto. He explained it alot better than I could have.

[CSXDixieLine]

... 

You don't want to join the NMRA? Fine -- fortunately for you the organization and its volunteers freely share the standards work so that everyone benefits. Just spare us the lame excuses and self-righteous posturing.

Byron, NMRA member since 1995 or therabouts

Thank you--your post clearly reflects the exact tone that keeps me away from the NMRA. Jamie

[cuyama]

<deleted>

Sorry I offended some with my comments. My follow-up post is further down the thread.

[NEMMRRC]

Isn't my homeowner's insurance enough?

Now that is a question you have to ask to your insurance agent.  I would guess the short answer is no.

Our MR club tried to get insurance through NMRA but because not every single member was an NMRA member they wouldn't do it.

Thanks Texas Zepher.

Jaime

[NEMMRRC]

...

I may look at membership again, if only for the insurance benefits.

Please explain how the insurance benefits work? Isn't my homeowner's insurance enough?

Jaime

Your homeowner's insurance may or may not cover your trains.  You would need to "schedule" them on your policy, ...

Thanks tin can.

Jaime

[Texas Zepher]

Isn't my homeowner's insurance enough?

Now that is a question you have to ask to your insurance agent.  I would guess the short answer is no.

Our MR club tried to get insurance through NMRA but because not every single member was an NMRA member they wouldn't do it.

[tin can]

...

I may look at membership again, if only for the insurance benefits.

Please explain how the insurance benefits work? Isn't my homeowner's insurance enough?

Jaime

Your homeowner's insurance may or may not cover your trains.  You would need to "schedule" them on your policy, which may cost additional funds.  Most homeowner policies have limits on contents; frankly, if I have a fire or theft situation, my trains are at the bottom of the list to get replaced.  Whatever, talk to your agent.  In a previous home, with a previous insurance company, my trains were not covered.  I bought train insurance from a vendor who used to advertise in MR.  When I opened my retail shop, all my stuff went to the shop, and it was covered under my business policy. 

The NMRA insurance is specifically designed for model trains; and the cost seems reasonable, so it makes sense, at least to me.

I have friends in the hobby who are in the NMRA, and friends in the hobby who aren't.  I understand the relevance of the standards, that's nice, but I'm not into achievement programs and the social side that seems to exist in the NMRA regions.  But that's just me; I have a bit of Lone Wolf in me....

[wm3798]

The NMRA has benefitted the hobby if for no other reason it brought DCC to the masses.  Without the standards they established, DCC would still be a boutique specialty with a bunch of incompatible parts.

Personally, I've never been a member.  I'm not into the quasi-competitive nature of the Master Modeler program, nor do I have the time or the budget to flit off to conventions.

Beyond that, as an N scaler, I've never gotten much in the way of warm fuzzies from NMRA members.

I'm glad they're there, and I'm glad they can get along fine without the likes of me...

Lee

[NEMMRRC]

...

I may look at membership again, if only for the insurance benefits.

Please explain how the insurance benefits work? Isn't my homeowner's insurance enough?

Jaime

[lilivalley]

I was a member for 25 years, when they split and I was required to join a regional, and they jacked up the dues, I split too.

[mobilman44]

Hi!

I've been a "non-active" dues paying member for around 10 years.  I almost dropped out a couple years ago when they raised the dues, but stayed on.  The monthly "Scale Rails" is a good mag, especially since Mr. Priest got involved with it.  Having said that, "Scale Rails" is certainly not worth the dues alone.

So why I am still a member?  Well, I love this hobby - one I have enjoyed since the mid-'50s - and the NMRA has done so much to promote standards and compliance.  Because of the NMRA, we not only have a lot of "good stuff" available to us, but also is compatible with most all the different manufacturers.  Frankly, we are the winners because of their efforts!

ENJOY!

Mobilman44