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Hobby Shops seem to be fading away

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  • Member since
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Posted by Shopcat on Friday, October 10, 2008 1:40 PM

In my business world, I work in two environments, one of which is retail heavy. It is daily remarkable that the same discussions, the same problems, the same grievances are extant. In the retail music business, music stores are disappearing. Whether musical instruments, or recorded intellectual property products, the retail brick & mortars are imploding, being replaced by online and by big boxes. Yet, in both music, and in MRRing, there are those who grow, prosper and continue. Why?

Could it be that good business people are good business people, no matter what the venue? Many excellent MRR stores are referenced in this thread. And the horror stories are aplenty as well. Same for retail music.

It seems that in music, many times a musician/model railroader (read: not a businessman) decides the best way to go is to "open up a little shop" and not understand what they are getting into. Then the economic rules begin to apply. And we see lots of times an older or semi-retired entrepreneur, sometimes grumpy, who doesn't understand business models, and the reality sets in. Now with that scenario, apply the new rules of internet and world economies. Its tough for smart good guys to be in biz....what about the marginal ones.

We could go down a list of retail channels that are imploding....hardware stores, car stores, retail clothing, paint, draperies, shoes (when do you ever see a private one owner shoe store?), business supply store, the list is long.

My gosh, we could include farms, gas stations, auto repair places, just about every retail commodity...

Its a tough business environment, and getting tougher by the day. Could you imagine going into a bank today and even with a great business plan, explain to a banker who is sitting at his desk sweating G scale sized bullets that you want a $250k loan so you can sell snap switches and paint? Or if you were a year or two in right now, and cash is drying up faster than water in Tehran, and you need a bridge loan? I didn't see any bailout for HO scale products this past week...

Here is my 2 cents. We need to show some love for those that are trying to hang on...good bad or indifferent. If for no other reason, we need to protect our sandbox. It is our club to lose...

 

Rick

 

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Posted by jfugate on Friday, October 10, 2008 2:52 PM

I think a lot depends on the business model and the savvy of the owner.

Model Railroader, for example, was started by Al Kalmbach in 1934 - the depth of the depression. If you wanted to talk about bad idea, there's one for you.

Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon

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Posted by Shopcat on Friday, October 10, 2008 2:55 PM
 jfugate wrote:

I think a lot depends on the business model and the savvy of the owner.

Model Railroader, for example, was started by Al Kalmbach in 1934 - the depth of the depression. If you wanted to talk about bad idea, there's one for you.

An excellent, excellent point and example to establish cred....


Rick

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Posted by Midnight Railroader on Friday, October 10, 2008 3:02 PM
 One Track Mind wrote:

But I do order from Walthers at least once a week, with a near 90% fill rate.

Why should I wait for you to call in your order a week from now, when I can order it myself from Walthers right now, over the internet? Or, if I go elsewhere, I can get it even cheaper.

How is that a viable business model?

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Posted by Shopcat on Friday, October 10, 2008 3:39 PM
 Midnight Railroader wrote:
 One Track Mind wrote:

But I do order from Walthers at least once a week, with a near 90% fill rate.

Why should I wait for you to call in your order a week from now, when I can order it myself from Walthers right now, over the internet? Or, if I go elsewhere, I can get it even cheaper.

How is that a viable business model?

 

You are right Scott, its not a viable business model. And that kind of seems to be the point.

If you can order directly from Walthers, assuming that said LHS also orders from Walthers, why should anyone use an LHS? Seems that Walthers the wholesaler is acting as Walthers the retailer. Not many in the business world like or can survive the double dipper. This brings up a really good question....is Walthers then actually killing its own golden goose just to get the eggs sooner? Are they strangling the LHS market? Is this good for them? This should make an interesting discussion.

Secondly, if you can order from another online place, and get it as fast or faster, what is the incentive for the LHS to continue to function? I will quickly acknowledge that many of us are savvy online citizens...hence the existence of this very forum. But, if what Scott says is true, where is the LHS owner's motivation?

Thirdly, if you can order from another online place and get it cheaper, again what is the LHS' motivation to continue? Did the online place get a better deal? Did the online place elect to make a lower margin? Did the online place simply have a lower overhead expense and could maintain margin and sell less? All of those don't equal a level playing field, do they?

So, given all of that, why should any LHS stay open? We can go somewhere else and get it faster, cheaper or better. Why shouldn't we? Is there any value to the LHS?

Does service and comraderie count for anything?

And is a double dipping Walthers a good or bad thing? (I think that is a very interesting question)

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Posted by One Track Mind on Friday, October 10, 2008 3:43 PM
 Midnight Railroader wrote:
 One Track Mind wrote:

But I do order from Walthers at least once a week, with a near 90% fill rate.

Why should I wait for you to call in your order a week from now, when I can order it myself from Walthers right now, over the internet? Or, if I go elsewhere, I can get it even cheaper.

How is that a viable business model?

 

Easy...

1. If I order from Walthers before cut-off time, I can have it in my store in less than 48 hours.
Do you get your items that fast?

2. Maybe I sell for a lower price than Walthers, maybe not, since answering your question is
definately bordering on advertising.

3. If it's not in stock at Walthers, perhaps, depending on the item, I can get from a number of
other suppliers.

4. I don't charge you shipping. On the other hand, I do have to charge sales tax, which is
generally less than shipping charges.

5. If your item comes in and it's not what you expected, I keep it. Or try to send it back.

6. If your item comes in broken, I take care of it.

7. Very little chance of any fraud occurring when you order from me.

8. You don't have to worry about damage by the shipping companies or anything being stolen
off of your porch.

9. If you get something and don't understand how it works, I might be able to help you with
it. If I can't, perhaps a customer in the store can help with an answer.

10. I can almost guarantee that you are going to get a pre-order as long as the order is placed before the ordering date. I hear a lot of complaints about internet places that don't always
fill their orders.

You want me to keep going? I might be able to think of some other reasons. And that doesn't
just apply to my store, that applies to a lot of good train shops.

It's a viable business model because it's been working for over 50 years.

 

 

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Posted by Shopcat on Friday, October 10, 2008 4:04 PM

OTM....a terrific response. Those are just the answers that need to be put out there....service must be important. The question remains....to how many? Its a tough world...

After reading OTM's response, I would wager to say that this is a LHS owner who works hard, cares and tries his level best to be not only a good merchant but a good mrr citizen.

Now...how many of you want to dismiss him and buy online and let his caring, compassionate, helpful (and hopefully profitable) business be eaten up by predatory practices of online, catalog and other non B&M services? Wanna see him fail? Buy elsewhere...

The marketing of model railroad retail, and the marketing of model railroading is in the dumper. The industry, or lack thereof, and the trades....need to circle the wagons and do some research into what is killing this industry...besides the lack of disposable income (that's another thread).

On the other hand...should it take a degree in business or economics or an MBA to run a hobby shop and try to maintain (as was posted earlier) a $600,000 annual gross sales operation.

What!?!? If someone is making $600,000 in a hobby store, that @#$%er ought to be rich and give me that stuff just for being a great guy! At $600,000 that poor slacker is just breaking even. Hope he doesn't have any kids heading for braces or college.

See that puppy in the upper left of my post? I can get her meds online (flea/tick, heartworm, and that stuff that settles her tummy) way less expensive than at the LHV (local vet). But when my dog is sick, that vet better be answering the phone. If I took all the business away from the vet, how can I count on them the day the Jack Russell Terrorist (I love that one...thanks to the guy I borrowed it from) eats a whole box of kleenex and blows up like a puffer fish? Personally, I look at my trains the same way. I have to dance with those that brung me.

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Posted by Autobus Prime on Friday, October 10, 2008 4:20 PM
SC:

I wish my LHS was like OTM. Unfortunately, it isn't. The owner's son has been running it for a while, and needs to get a clue fast. Here's what happened last time:

I ordered two Bowser kits, an Accurail kit, and a Lifelike kit. I knew these were in stock at Walthers. I could have mail-ordered, but I go by the shop pretty often, and as OTM said, no shipping cost is nice. Plus, I wanted to support my LHS, so I ordered them there. Because I wanted to help out a newbie, I told him to put them on the shelves and call me when they came in, to see if they were items anybody else was locally interested in. Trying to point the dude a way to cluesville, y'know? I try to be a good customer. I figured if they sold, no problem, I'll just order more.

It took the dude over a month to actually *place* my order. Once he placed it, it came in quick enough, but I never got a call. I did call myself about 3 times to see if the stuff had come in, but each time I was told that the order was "going to be placed this week/soon/whatever". I gave up. About nine weeks later, I stopped by the store, and finally my order was in. I bought it, because that's what you do, but I shouldn't have.

Is that any way to treat a customer? I think not.

I wish OTM ran my local store. I'd buy everything there if the place was well-run. Unfortunately, that isn't always the way these shops are.

Then there is the other LHS where they always acted like customers were a nuisance, to be gotten rid of as soon as possible, so the prop. could go back into the back room and do whatever he was doing on the computer...probably selling stuff online or watching Youtube. I don't know. Why the heck do you run a store if you don't want to deal with people?
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Posted by MisterBeasley on Friday, October 10, 2008 4:26 PM
 Midnight Railroader wrote:
 One Track Mind wrote:

But I do order from Walthers at least once a week, with a near 90% fill rate.

Why should I wait for you to call in your order a week from now, when I can order it myself from Walthers right now, over the internet? Or, if I go elsewhere, I can get it even cheaper.

How is that a viable business model?

From the customer's point of view, I have to echo One Track Mind.  If I see something in the Walthers catalog that I want, I send an e-mail to my LHS.  He orders it for me, and I generally have it the following Thursday.  I pay sales tax, but no shipping.  I don't have to worry that the UPS guy can't find my house (despite the large numbers on the mailbox) or that it will get left out in the rain.  I can order a $2 set of Details West MU Hoses if that's all I want.  No problem.

If it's a sale item, I get the sale price.  If not, I get a discount anyway.  And if it's a not-very-good-sale, I get the better of the sale or the discount price.  I don't pay for the item until it's in my hands.

Typically, I spend 20-30 minutes looking around the LHS every time I go, even though I know the inventory pretty well by this time.  But, it's just a place I like to be.  I feel welcome there, every time, whether I'm buying big or small, or nothing at all.

It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse. 

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Posted by Last Chance on Friday, October 10, 2008 5:22 PM

I will put a oar into the water for OTM and several other stores in my area.

I know I can communicate a order to OTM or any store in my area or the east coast at any time of day or night with the information gathered from the wathers web page or any other source and the precise item will be present without damage or loss at the store within a week, if not days.

As a customer, I will say that I have experienced just about 100% success in order fills. I think one baggage car arrived that were missing a door but not a problem because extra doors were present on another baggage car. That was such a minor problem that was solved on the spot at the counter.

If these stores were to close today where I am, I probably will fall back on the old MB Klein because THEY too fill orders rapidly and with precision. Nothing like a hometown store that has survived 75+ years of trains and one store demolition/move to new quarters.

Im picky, Im demanding, Im hard to please and sometimes completely out of no where on a order for something that is totally like 5 years past the discontinued date. But the stores know all about that. I dont spend much, trains is the bottom of my budget. But when I do want to buy trains, they make it happen.... FAST.

The biggest problem is actually filling a gas hog to GET to the store LOL and that is just real life with work and wife needs for the vehicles. No biggie.

As luck would have it; these fine stores like OTM and R&S has kept me in the hobby for years without hassle with crummy UPS shipping damage in my area. Commerical customers get good service while residental customers get it thrown onto the porch with neglect and distain from a tired driver ready to go home past sunset.

The most memorable orders were those that came from suppliers that were probably operating out of a house basement somewhere and had very little or no exposure on the National level with Model Railroading or other sources of exposure such as ebay.

Oh yes, Ive had it good. How long can it last? Well... we'll find out wont we? =)

 

Call me a very happy customer and the future is bright.

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Posted by aloco on Friday, October 10, 2008 10:09 PM
Where I live, there is only one hobby shop that handles model railroad equipment.  The owner is not a model railroader - he is into remote control model airplanes.  But I like the fact that he is an airplane guy because he handles things like paint, brushes, glue, small tools, and scratchbuilding supplies.  If I need any of that small stuff his store is handy.  I'd hate to have to mail order any of that stuff. 
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Posted by stebbycentral on Saturday, October 11, 2008 7:09 PM

Serveral weeks back I had a conversation with the owner of our local HobbyTown outlet.  The signs of impending closure were all there; dwindling stock, and a sale price on just about everything.  I confirmed in a conversation with him that he was getting out of the business. He said he was looking for a regular job, with health benefits.  As a small business owner he couldn't afford the cost of private health insurance for himself and his wife.  (And a note to Senator McCain; the figure he quoted to me doesn't even come close to the $5,000 tax credit you are offering.) 

Well today I dropped by to pick up some sheet brass for one of my son's school projects.  I found the doors locked and a realtor's sign in the window.  His operation never carried a good supply of MRR supplies.  But his was the closest LHS to where I live, and it was convienient for other items like glue, tools, building supplies and paint.  I will miss him.

 

 

I have figured out what is wrong with my brain!  On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!

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Posted by Shopcat on Sunday, October 12, 2008 11:54 AM

So this thread begs the question...

Is there a root cause? Has the expectation of low price, fast service, better selection trumped the need for personal care and service, and the value of the local relationship?

Or has the lack of loyalty and availability from other channels in the delivery chain chased good merchants from the marketplace, only to be now served by the myriad of dismal stories painted in this tread previously?

And lastly,

Does it matter? Does it matter enough to cause us all individually and collectively to alter our thoughts, habits and preferences?

And does the manufacturer/supplier level or the wholesale level care?

 

Rick

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Posted by Last Chance on Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:19 PM

I have had the joy of visiting many good stores in my life time.

Low Price, fast service AND Local Service exist in my area.

It does matter. The out of production limited runs forced by the Manufacters in the hobby has required changes in my hobby thinking to adapt and use resources including the internet to make purchases on wanted items.

However, I always try to give first consideration to the Hobby Shop. After all, they probably can get to it.

What does the supplier care? There are a number in the USA that ships orders on time within a week and I recieve them pronto at the store. They do thier jobs well enough.

 

Now there is one thing that did change. You probably can walk into a store and look over inventory on the shelf at any time. Kadee Couplers, paint etc...

The stuff I have purchased in the last three years or so never spent a moment on the shelf. It is either a internet webpage picture on a announcement, echo by MR's own announcement WEEKS later in the next issue (Ho hum, old news) and sold out and out of production before anyone NOT connected to the internet gets word or spots a new product either at the Clubhouse or running on a friend's railroad.

Sometimes does extra orders of a item I bought gets onto the shelf at the store. But you are not going to see too many 500 dollar engines with DCC and Sound sitting around on that shelf with certain companies blowing them out on internet sales less than half that price. Recently I did order some engines through the store and paid whatever they were. I like to do so once or twice a year and consider them high ticket, really big purchases at the store.

I say 50% of items in my train room were ordered months or weeks in advance and arrived off the UPS truck, sit behind the counter until I pay for it and take it right home in days or weeks.

Does the store order extras of the same items? Sometimes when there is a clamor from customers who likes the item. The recent 45 ton switcher from Bachmann is a fine example.

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Posted by shayfan84325 on Sunday, October 12, 2008 12:20 PM

I live in a town where the nearest retail business is 8 miles away.  We don't even have a gas station.  I presume that my fellow residents and I have adapted pretty well.  Of course none of us work in town, so we do frequent the retail businesses of nearby larger towns.  I estimate that 90% of my discretionary funds are spent online - between sales tax and the cost of gas, shipping costs are roughly a wash.  I enjoy model railroading with great satisfaction even though the nearest hobby store is 45 miles away.

My point is that a hobby store is really optional to me as a model railroader.  Sure, I'd like to have a retailer nearby, who provides the supplies that I need/want, and to keep as a friend.  It would make things a little richer, but it's not worth 2.5 gallons of gas per trip

I won't drive 45 miles to shoot the breeze with the not so local hobby shop owner - as noted earlier in this thread, I have driven that distance to find him out of what I need (yes I should have called first, but I wouldn't call Walmart to ask if they have a stock of white glue; I was there hor a regular stock item - it is reasonable to assume that stock items are kept in stock).  I would drive that distance if he offered services that I cannot get anywhere else.  I listed some suggestions, earlier in this thread.

I feel that my case demonstrates that a hobby store is optional, so the traditional approach to the business may no longer be enough.  It may be time to consider facets of the business that are of value, and currently under-provided.

Phil,
I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.

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Posted by stebbycentral on Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:09 PM

Here is something to think about, if hobby shops go away where will the hobbyist's of the future come from?  Yes, just about any hobby you want to name can be serviced reliably by any number of online retailers.  But how do you introduce a person to a hobby if they can't see, smell, and touch the hardware? 

How many of us were introduced to, or at least confirmed our interest in, model railroading as a result of the display layout in a LHS?  It gave you a real sense of the possibilities beyond that oval of track that comes in the box with your first train set. And, of course one could say the same about the shiny RC airplane hanging from the ceiling.  Or that carefully detailed squad of PanzerGrenadiers picking their way through the rubble of Stalingrad, as depicted on the diorama in the display case. 

Come to think of it, when's the last time you saw any activity promoted in a television ad that didn't have a joystick attached to it? I hope the demise of the LSH is greatly overstated, because I'm not sanguine about the future of pratically any hobby without them.

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Posted by Last Chance on Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:23 PM

That is where Clubs, Modular Layouts at Shows etc come in.

Society as a large has a small percentage of "That strange train man" who actually participate in the hobby. Not exactly prime time TV material.

Have you enjoyed the recent DVD series Dream Plan Build? Did you think some of the shows presented in that series are a bit dry? Or perhaps crammed with so much information over a hour?

Look at the Satellite TV in my house. They like to broadcast a movie in 7 minute bits with a 4 minute commerical followed by another 7 minute bit.

You aint going to delve into the nitty gritty on something like DCC and destroy the viewer's train of thought with a OXYTRACK CLEANER Commerical BLARED at 60% increase in volume. You can not teach viewers this way about the hobby.

HOWEVER... if a local clubhouse broadcast a commerical in 2 minutes airtime or less of a upcoming trainshow or event... people WILL come.

 

I did visit one hobby shop somewhere on the east coast. It was a beautiful day, sunshine in the spring time. Traffic was light and I was ahead of schedule. The moment I opened that front door, the jingle of the bell was followed instantly by a roar issuing from the high counter... WHAT?! &^%$#$ ANOTHETR GAW*&%^$#$ Person why Must....

I spun on heel and took off in search of better stores in the area. Maybe that person was having a very bad issue that moment in 60 years service but there aint no how I plan to go back to that store. Too bad because the window revealed a place filled with good train things to buy.

I recall another store that was good and well done while there was good foot traffic. Later on in the next decade of TV games, computer video games etc there was nothing but aged people buying a hobby on social security. That store faded into a room with just a few boxes in a wide open space and eventually closed for good. I think the customers who supported the store was old and died off in the area and the younger children were not exposed to a train club, train shows and had no reason to take a moment to visit a store obviously staggering towards foreclosure or worse.

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Posted by hobo9941 on Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:25 PM
I really don't see how they can make it. With rent or property taxes on the building, heat, water, electricity, insurance, and a couple employees, you have to sell a lot of stuff. My local hobby shop is very good, and has a good selection of model railroad stuff. But there doesn't seem to be very many people in there most of the time. A couple regulars are always hanging around visiting, but not buying anything. I try to shop there, but everything is MSRP, and if I can save $50 on a loco, buying it online, guess where I'm going to buy it.
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Posted by Last Chance on Sunday, October 12, 2008 1:31 PM

Rent? Utilties? Basic consumables? Everyone has to deal with that.

The internet aint a haven from billing either. Bandwidth, manhours supporting the webpage and sorting orders and following up on problems all cost money.

Dont count the people in the store. Take a look behind the counter and see the mountain of stuff on layaway. THAT is where the real business is LOL.

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Posted by Midnight Railroader on Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:30 PM
 One Track Mind wrote:
 Midnight Railroader wrote:
 One Track Mind wrote:

But I do order from Walthers at least once a week, with a near 90% fill rate.

Why should I wait for you to call in your order a week from now, when I can order it myself from Walthers right now, over the internet? Or, if I go elsewhere, I can get it even cheaper.

How is that a viable business model?

 

Easy...

1. If I order from Walthers before cut-off time, I can have it in my store in less than 48 hours.
Do you get your items that fast?

2. Maybe I sell for a lower price than Walthers, maybe not, since answering your question is
definately bordering on advertising.

3. If it's not in stock at Walthers, perhaps, depending on the item, I can get from a number of
other suppliers.

4. I don't charge you shipping. On the other hand, I do have to charge sales tax, which is
generally less than shipping charges.

5. If your item comes in and it's not what you expected, I keep it. Or try to send it back.

6. If your item comes in broken, I take care of it.

7. Very little chance of any fraud occurring when you order from me.

8. You don't have to worry about damage by the shipping companies or anything being stolen
off of your porch.

9. If you get something and don't understand how it works, I might be able to help you with
it. If I can't, perhaps a customer in the store can help with an answer.

10. I can almost guarantee that you are going to get a pre-order as long as the order is placed before the ordering date. I hear a lot of complaints about internet places that don't always
fill their orders.

You want me to keep going? I might be able to think of some other reasons. And that doesn't
just apply to my store, that applies to a lot of good train shops.

It's a viable business model because it's been working for over 50 years.

 

 

1. If. What if I miss your deadline? My order from the internet always arrives quickly, no matter when I place it.

2. But do you sell for a lower price than internet-based discounters? I doubt that.

3. Good. So can I.

4. That may be a push. Hard to say.

5. Never have experienced this problem, so I guess you win this  point.

6. So does the mail-order place.

7. I deal with reliable online retailers. Same chance of fraud.

8. True, but I have never had this happen to me.

9. Never have had this problem in 30+ years of model railroading. I've said that the "Yeah, but will the mail-order people fix your product or help you with it" argument does not always apply to everyone.

10. "Almost" guarantee? Those two words are mutally exclusive. Either you can guarantee it or you can't.

I am addressing primarily the multiple hobby shops that are NOT yours, that I've dealt with overr the years, that charge the full Walthers' price, make up a list and place the order once a week (or less frequently!), and have no good reply when my item does not arrive in the Walther's shipment (how do you deal with that by the way?)

Nope, if you want me to patronize your shop, you need to have what I want in stock or I'll order it myself.

But that doesn't sound like a problem in your case anyway.

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Posted by One Track Mind on Monday, October 13, 2008 6:53 PM

Well I suppose I could take the time to go through every point again, along with
some other comments about train shops on this thread, but frankly there is no point
in preaching to a member of the other church's choir.

Some see the benefits of a LHS, some don't. I think it is fair, however, that on the
many threads such as this one (with no offense intended to the OP) that a person
new to the hobby also needs to hear that there are still good train shops open.

I wish there was some way to offer an answer to some points on this thread, but
as always I am typing with one hand tied behind my back because to fully explain
the benefits of a LHS, I would be taking the chance of stepping over the "no
advertising" rule... and I think the moderators have already been lenient on this issue.

 

 

 

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Posted by tin can on Monday, October 13, 2008 8:30 PM
 Last Chance wrote:

Rent? Utilties? Basic consumables? Everyone has to deal with that.

The internet aint a haven from billing either. Bandwidth, manhours supporting the webpage and sorting orders and following up on problems all cost money.

Dont count the people in the store. Take a look behind the counter and see the mountain of stuff on layaway. THAT is where the real business is LOL.

 

But what the internet has changed is the margin.  In the good old days, a hobby shop could count on a 30 to 40 percent margin.  A hobby shop could afford to carry a large, varied inventory.  That margin has shrunk to 20 percent or less today.  The modern business model is all about inventory turns.

There is a world of difference in rent, too.  A retail storefront is going to be much more expensive than a warehouse/office set up for internet sales.  Or possibly a garage or a storage unit; I know of at least two internet hobby shops running out of residential garages that way. 

Remember the tin can; the MKT's central Texas branch...
  • Member since
    May 2008
  • 880 posts
Posted by Last Chance on Monday, October 13, 2008 10:46 PM

I dont know anything about Margins.

All I know is when I hunt for a item, I either get it at the Store or online at a price I can stand to pay for it. Birdie gets the early worm occasionally if you look around hard enough.

I remember buying a full train of Walthers Heavyweight cars at the store. One car would arrive a month or several months apart. It took me about 2 to 3 years to get all the cars in. At times I thought about selling off the cars on ebay and trying again with someone else's cars that are already availible.

Im into Rapdio cars now at another store for one every... 3-6 months. At this rate I will have a full train sometime within the next 5 years. Im just glad I dont have to buy em all at once on my allowance.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Lilburn, GA
  • 966 posts
Posted by CSXDixieLine on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 12:30 AM

I moved to Atlanta, GA from Columbia, SC in 1993, with one of the main reasons being the number of hobby shops in the area. For the record, the new job was the #1 reason for moving Wink [;)] Anyway, most of the stores from that era are no longer around, but the few new ones that took their place are much, much better. The net effect to me is that there is actually much better selection, supply and pricing today than there was 13 years ago. Jamie

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: AU
  • 713 posts
Posted by xdford on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 3:05 AM

These days I actually buy very few MR mags... saturation point being one of the reasons... but there used to be a note in the dealer directories which said "support your local hobby shop" and then Kalmbach do almost exactly the opposite.

One of my dealers here in Australia was paying US Cover price for MR then being undercut by the conglomerate distributor, you cannot access subscriber content if you do "support your hobby shop" which I don't claim to subscribe via the shop anyway, and MR's attitude seems to be anything but helpful. The previous dealer stopped dealing with Kalmbach for not really good service. The proprietor changed for the shop and resumed MR sales.

I do get magazines from the shop as my own purchases of models reflect a bit of saturation and it is the odds and sods that I want to do my bit to keep him (and her... its a husband and wife team) in business. Kalmbachs retailing strategy does not seem to reflect this support for the dealer for the hobby as a whole. 

This is not a flame for Kalmbach but I can understand if anyone reading this might feel that. I wish Kalmbach might at least recognise there has been a problem partly of their making and that while they are in the position they occupy, perhaps some balance is required in their further form of positive promotion of the hobby as a whole rather than just ensuring the company's own position which the "subscriber content" seems to push.

We are seeing hobby shops go out of business... I have witnessed about 15 or so in this country over the years I've been in the hobby in small populated areas ... and others take their place as well as the discount dealers. I feel Kalmbachs place in general should be more supportive to promote the hobby more widely and benefit us all in the long term. 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 6:01 AM
 One Track Mind wrote:

Well I suppose I could take the time to go through every point again, along with
some other comments about train shops on this thread, but frankly there is no point
in preaching to a member of the other church's choir.

Some see the benefits of a LHS, some don't. I think it is fair, however, that on the
many threads such as this one (with no offense intended to the OP) that a person
new to the hobby also needs to hear that there are still good train shops open.

I wish there was some way to offer an answer to some points on this thread, but
as always I am typing with one hand tied behind my back because to fully explain
the benefits of a LHS, I would be taking the chance of stepping over the "no
advertising" rule... and I think the moderators have already been lenient on this issue.

 

I been in many hobby shops over the last 50 years and they come in all stripes from the friendly to a Scrooge type owner.I made friends with several of the owners and no doubt made enemies out of some because I would pay above MRSP and was frank enough to tell them..I been in shops that reek of stale cigar smoke and been greeted by a dog that would jump up and look you in your eye while leaning on you and to make sure you knew you was welcome will give you a rather wet lick with his/her tongue.

I drove for miles to buy a kit only to find "my wife sold it yesterday"..I called why didn't he lay it back?

Another problem I can across was highly arrogant owners that also modelers.Then there was the other ignorant owners as well that knew very little about the very products he sold.

Some times those benefits of a LHS of which you speak means nothing especially if the shop is full MSRP and poorly stock or worst-stock with Bachmann as a after thought.

Now then..If a shop will offer me a fair discount or cut me some slack on large purchases then I would be happy to buy from his/her shop.

If I can save $30.00-35.00 per locomotive isn't that money worth more in my pocket instead of a LHS whose owner wouldn't cut me some slack on a purchase of 2 locomotives? Think about it..A savings of $30.00-$35.00 on each engine equals $60.00 - $70.00..See how it mounts up? Shipping? I didn't subtract that because that will be cover by gas it takes to drive 26 miles(56 miles RT) to get to my not so local hobby shop.

I do appreciate your LHS flag waving with good words and thoughts..Its a good cause  especially for the better hobby shops that offers a modest discount and fully understands the importance of his customers..After all that old school thought of us needing them is long dead.

As a interesting side note.The few bottles of paint I bought from on line shops is fresher then the paint I buy at my not so local hobby shop IF he has the color I need in stock.

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Prescott, AZ
  • 1,736 posts
Posted by Midnight Railroader on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:03 AM

With the substantial competition for online sellers, hobby shop owners need to be doing it better overall.

Better customer service, better inventory control, and better prices are just the start. We should not be hearing stories about surly shop owners or inconvenient hours.

While I don't necessarily agree that the customer is 'always right," today's LHS owners need to be learning heavily toward acting like that if they wish to stay in business.

  • Member since
    April 2001
  • From: US
  • 3,150 posts
Posted by CNJ831 on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:06 AM

Some points worthy of consideration in this discussion include the following.

While RR hobby shop owners are of every stripe, from good to bad, the existence of such shops has always been the foremost point of exposure of the hobby to the general public. Their disappearance, which seems inevitable, is going to seriously reduce the number of future hobbyists. In no way does the Internet replace the hobby shop as a method of hobby exposure to the general public.

Likewise, without RR hobby shops one looses the opportunity to see, touch  and try out some new item, as well as to gain some immediate practical advice and insight as to its suitability for the individual's potential application and/or layout. While many are agog over what they see as the vast wealth of advice available over the Internet, few consider the fact that they have no way of knowing the adviser's credentials and knowledge. I've seen just as much bad information/advice offered on forums as sound and practical advice.

While the seasoned hobbyist has no difficulties in being creative, the newbie faces so many pitfalls and hurdles, while burdened with so many questions, only a lengthy face-to-face exchange with someone knowledgable in the hobby is likely to get them through those difficult first years. The traditional approach to this problem has been for the newbie to spend time with the hobby shop owner, or to acquire from him the name of a local club, or someone known to the shop owner to be an experienced hobbyist willing to assist. Again, once this avenues is gone, it seriously curtails the potential for future hobbyists and in the longer term, the hobby itself.

In my immediate area there used to be 5 RR shops, most of which had a long history, including one of the largest in the nation. Today their is only one left...run by a knowledgable, very helpful owner. While he offers discounts, he freely admits he can not compete for much longer with Internet sales and that walk-in traffic is declining. To go the Internet route himself, to any considerable degree, would make the store a profit drain and he'd probably close it.

In the not very distant future, the economy is going to sound the death knell for a great many of the smaller shops that still exist. And when they are gone, whether you consider them dinosaurs or not, in more ways than one a large and important portion of the hobby will pass into history.

CNJ831     

  

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Prescott, AZ
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Posted by Midnight Railroader on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:34 AM
 CNJ831 wrote:

 To go the Internet route himself, to any considerable degree, would make the store a profit drain and he'd probably close it.

If he doesn't WANT to get into mail-order, that's his decision. But to claim it would be "profit drain" is simply untrue. On the contrary, it would be a new revenue stream for his store.

  • Member since
    October 2001
  • From: OH
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Posted by BRAKIE on Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:44 AM

 CNJ831 said: In the not very distant future, the economy is going to sound the death knell for a great many of the smaller shops that still exist. And when they are gone, whether you consider them dinosaurs or not, in more ways than one a large and important portion of the hobby will pass into history.

------------

Indeed...The old school shops where the faithful gathers every Saturday morning is fast becoming a relic of the past as us old farts die off or those shops close due to the owner retiring or passing.

Food for thought..Hobby shops are now in the hands of the "younger" generation of modelers and shop owners..

How will they handle the hobby shop legacy that has been past to them?

 

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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