This is my current setup. It is 15' x 24' and on a nice mushy carpet. The carpet is very easy on the back when working on the layout for any length of time and I would do it no other way. My last 10' x 5' setup was on porcelain tile and that was a killer. Also the carpet makes the room very warm, cozy place in the winter and makes the room a very nice place to be.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Finally, our designated train room is nearing completion. Please use your imagination to correct the goofy photo-merge angles. Windows on one side only, where direct sunlight will not enter the room. Track lighting around the entire ceiling with natural light type of bulbs. Room is approx: 17.5' x 19.5' and has heating & air. Two walls will be for my N scale. Wife will have a 4' x 8' table for her HO, but is now asking for an additional 3' of table. As long as she is happy.
Now the only question reemains, what kind of floor to put down. Wife wants tile. Guess I don't really care about the floor, as long as there is a comfortable chair with wheels when I just want to kick back and watch some trains run.
The thought of actually building the layouts is frankly a bit overwhelming. My own plans keep shrinking as project time draws nearer. Rob
Great post. Love the links to your super website. Many thanks for your contributing to the hobby often.
---15' x 24', that's like mine.
----For a bigger layout room I would suggest make a drawing. A drawing with your min radius and aisle width. This way you can meander the track with peninsulas and get an idea for your room.
I suggest you look at minimum radius, double it, add minimum 12" to each side. Then consider your aisle width; I recommend 48" (we aren't getting any narrower) if you want two operators to pass while holding radio (or worse, tethered) throttles, and more if you are considering multi-deck. Then look at your shelf width, probably 24-30".
2 shelves = 5' plus 2 aisles = 8' plus 1 peninsula = 7-8' (for 30" min R in HO) and you get a minimum room width of 21' for a room with one peninsula (including crew operating aisles). Wider for more (remember John Armstrong saying the most efficient use of space is one long, weaving peninsula rather than an E-shaped layout with multiple blobs). Also add in 7' less the 2' shelf = 5' more for your helix, and you're up to 26'.
Then it should be longer than wide, so start with 35' long.
But first, look at the traffic you want to model. Will you be country vs city? switching vs open running? passenger vs freight? branch line vs main line? modern vs transition vs turn of (the past) century? single vs multi deck to get the mainline run you want? how long will your trains be (determines minimum passing siding length and yard length)? how many yards do you need to support the traffic (determines shelf width)? TT&TO vs track warrants vs CTC? how many operators will you need to support the traffic and operating system (dispatcher, plus agents, plus yardmasters, plus yard jobs, plus hostlers, plus road crews (trend is toward 2 man crews), plus tower operators)?
Then, as pointed out already, detemine how you're going to get into the room (best is stairs to the center--no duckunders or gates to maintain)
In short, develop your list of (Armstrong's) Givens and Druthers, look at your available budget (especially time), then think about how big you want to make this thing.
Travers, BaltimoreTerminal, 10-29-08
We found ourselves in a similar situation when we added on to our house about six years ago. No, I didn't have an unlimited budget, but we had the entire upstairs of a two-car garage to work with.
Lighting? I'd go with track lights because you can re-aim them once things are done. In my case, I built the room before I planned the layout. I didn't know where I'd want lights.
Make sure you have plenty of electrical outlets. Not only for the train gear but also for the construction stuff like drills, saws & sanders. Make sure that they are rated high enough to handle that kind of current too.
Allow for plenty of aisle space. I have one register under the layout that doesn't do much but heat the benchwork. Had I had a bit more room, the register would have been unobstructed.
Maintenance... if you have those windows, make sure that you get ones that are easy to maintain. If you need to remove one for cleaning, glass replacement, etc, you want to be able to get to it easily.
Just my thoughts...
dlm
where the fascia board/ valence meet the floor have dimmed lights or florescents so your walkways are lite just so and that way you can have night/ day effect for your layout at shelf-table level with out make the making the operators work ing total dark nest and have under light for your shelfs in the fasica so you can work with your waybills and stuff on the jutting shelf, say during a night time shift on your RR. there was also a great artilce in 07 or 08 MR magazine that showed how to do sunset glow behind the mountains with christmas lights
BATMANTrack or pot lights?
Here's an idea for lights that you may not have run across.
We have a channel built around the top of the walls in our bedroom. The room has a tray ceiling. Think of 2x2s nailed horizontally about six inches below the wall/ceiling joint. Then nail 2x4s to the 2x2s, with the 2x4s on edge and flush with the bottom of the 2x2s. Cover the bottom and exposed face with sheet rock. This makes a roughly 2x2 trough. We have electrical recepticals installed in the corners, controlled by a dimmer switch by the door. We laid clear mini holiday lights in the trough and it looks really great, so great that two sets of friends did the same thing when they built new houses. We used the holiday lights because rope lights were EXTREMELY expensive when we built the house in 1992, and we didn't want flourescents. You always see the gaps between bulbs and most can't be dimmed. We are very proud of this lighting which we thought up ourselves. We have three strings of lights side-by-side all of the way around, a total of a dozen strings or so. The light is a little mottled, which is nice, and the mini lights make very little heat. LEDs would be even cooler and use even less power, but LEDs all of the way around a large train room could cost thousands.
You could hide strings of holiday lights behind a soffit, supported by hooks or nails. I'd use three sets, all on separate rheostats. One would be clear for daylight, one would be blue for moonlight and night illumination, and one would have red and some yellow to simulate dawn and sunset. You'd need more than one string of each to get enough light; we have three strings of clear to make beautiful light against the tray ceiling in our bedroom. I could see putting the whole thing under control so it would automatically move from daylight to sunset to evening to night to dawn to day again. You'd probably want to mix light levels as you transition from one part of the day to another. It might even be worth using a little clear light to supplement the blue night at night, particularly moonlit nights.
I envy your chance to design your space in advance. Most of the rest of us have to shoehorn our pikes into whatever real estate we can finagle from the powers that be, i.e., she who doth wield the sword makety the big decisions. Good luck with your building and layout.
Doneldon
I thought for a long time that a square train room would be just right. Turns out that I was wrong, at least for what I wanted to do. It made me try to put everything in the middle, which would have made for numerous duckunders, which I detest. So, we took my 25x25 room and cut it to 15x12.5, which worked out well in all aspects, since we had the storage space we so badly needed and I had a better train room.
We added on to our house a few years ago and my intention was to finally have a train room. It measures 22' 8" by 39' 4" and I had trusses built so there are no posts or beams to impede my creative juices.(just time) The one thing I may have done different would be I would have added another row of blocks to the basement walls to gain some ceiling height. The trusses hang down inside the walls, giving me a ceiling of about 6 1/2 feet. I would then have steps going down to the train room, and possibly some water problems, but I am sure both could be dealt with. Happy building
Im old enough to recall John Allen's Layout and fateful end in pictures and story. All the more reason to consider the very best risk management for a train room.
Fire isnt the only issue. You can have things like weight in the train room in certain house construction, number of people present in the space, wheel chair access etc
The bigger your train room, the more it's going to cost you in money, time and work to fill it. I tend to throw track down and get going.
Dean-58 wrote:How many of you old-timers like me, suddenly recalled that this was how the late John Allen's beautiful Gorre & Daphetid died a horrible death after John was gone: a short in the electrical system of John's un-California-like basement set fire to the house!
I hope no one recalls this, because it isn't true.
The reality is, a "helpful" friend who was at the house after his Allen's death turned up the thermostat, which activated a heater, covered with flammable materials, in the layout room. (Allen didn't use it, so he didn't worry about the fire hazard.)
A "short in the electrical system" had nothing to do with the fire.
When my wife and I bought my basement (it has a house covering the top), it took the real estate guy a little bit to figure out that the basement was critical. Once he did, he snapped his fingers and said, "I got it," and the next house he showed us had the perfect basement for a model railroad.
Now, that's service.
15' x 24', that's like mine.
For a bigger layout room I would suggest make a drawing. A drawing with your min radius and aisle width. This way you can meander the track with peninsulas and get an idea for your room.
But I've seen, a layout takes time to build. More time if you go with less cost. I will no more change my layout (I've had a few layouts every time when I recognized that the operation was not good.). I want to finish the layout and enjoy operation in a scenicked area! Now, about 50& are scenicked and I have op sessions.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
I paint outside on the porch subject to temperature, wind and humidity limits.
Ive done this since Spouse's sensitive to chemicals and odors. No painting in deep winter. So any other time of year is the time to paint with sprays and wintertime is using water based paints inside like Tamiya.
Keeping fumes out of the house is important because we have gas fired devices all over.
There is one other thing that I have decided to consider. Soundproofing. Ive gotten tired of the neighbors with thier 7000 dollar car stereos. I have two choices. Build soundproofing and isolate the train room or sell house and move out into the woods where there aint no cars within a few miles range... particularly those that like to hang about the street all day.
....for me would be a 12' wide hallway, with one door, no windows, and lots of lighting. Length should be in the 400' to 500' range.
Wayne
loathar wrote:My ultimate train room would be an old restored heavy weight passenger car in the back yard.(with money trees growing all around it!)
And the Big Rock Candy Mountain..
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
The perfect trainroom; no kids, no pets, no wife, all the space one could ask for as well as a fridge full of beer.
Jimmy
ROUTE ROCK!
Bikerdad wrote: Subpanel. If this space looks like a good contender for a future owner to use as a workshop, then put a subpanel in now. Not only will it help your resale value, but it will also allow you to shut the entire trainroom down at once. If you do put a subpanel in, make sure that one lighting circuit is off the main panel. That way you can "lock out" the layout, whatever tools may be in there, etc, while still having lighting. And if you trip the subpanel's breaker, you won't be in the dark.Have a small wetbar in there, with a small TV.That's all I have for now regarding the space itself. Good luck with it, grace and peace, BD
Subpanel. If this space looks like a good contender for a future owner to use as a workshop, then put a subpanel in now. Not only will it help your resale value, but it will also allow you to shut the entire trainroom down at once. If you do put a subpanel in, make sure that one lighting circuit is off the main panel. That way you can "lock out" the layout, whatever tools may be in there, etc, while still having lighting. And if you trip the subpanel's breaker, you won't be in the dark.
Have a small wetbar in there, with a small TV.
That's all I have for now regarding the space itself.
Good luck with it, grace and peace, BD
Ouch, there's something I've forgotten about for years, yet it's very important! MR has occasionally recommended a separate power panel for the model RR room, be it basement, attic, garage or spare room--as far back as Linn Westcott. How many of you old-timers like me, suddenly recalled that this was how the late John Allen's beautiful Gorre & Daphetid died a horrible death after John was gone: a short in the electrical system of John's un-California-like basement set fire to the house! I haven't seen anything about this in print for years, but it's well worth thinking about: as you leave the layout room you throw the master switch on the power panel and kill all electricity within the room. How often have you forgotten to switch off the layout's power after your latest session? Even a 12V short can start a fire!
-Morgan
Perfect train room? Hmm...
I would go for a drop ceiling with recessed lights. If money was no object, then I'd get natural-light type fluorescent fixtures. This can give your layout room Noon-type outside lighting. I'd use track lights sparingly to highlight various places if need be. Another option is to use variable lighting to simulate dusk and night conditions (maybe using blue light bulbs).
I'd also have the walls curve into the ceiling and into each other...no 90 degree wall corners anywhere. Smooth transitions make the room look bigger and more natural for a layout scene.
For HVAC, I would try to avoid forced hot air as you don't want the dust. Baseboard heaters would be better. A/C is also on the want list, of course, but I would try to keep it from blowing on the layout itself if possible (again, dust). If you keep the layout as dust free as possible, you'll find you won't have to clean track nearly as often. Perhaps some air filter/dust removers running would help. Oh, and if you live anywhere it gets humid, get dehumidifiers, too. A/C isn't enough to dry out the air unless it's running constantly.
I'd also want my workbench, paint booth and tool storage in there, too. I'd also want some kind of sink for cleaning up dirty hands, water for plaster, water for air brushing, etc. Maybe even a full restroom, instead.
Don't forget electrical outlets. I'd go heavy on these as we always seem to need to be able to plug in another accessory, or a drop light, a vacuum, or something that needs power. Instead of twin outlets, use quads...and put more of them around the room.
I'd probably use carpet for the floor, but I'm not 100% sold on that. I imagine dropping a part and never being able to find it. Not to mention spills and the like. I do like hardwood floors, or tile, or linoleum, but these can be cause to layout room to be a little noisier. (shrug) This I can go either way with.
I would equip the room with built-in display cases (lit up, of course) and shelving for books, etc.
I'd also install a TV for watching sporting events while modeling (something I do already).
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
HHPATH56 wrote: I use pull down shades (with scenery painted on them) so that I have continuous scenery around all four walls.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Had my ultimate train room. Upstairs in a house on 5 acres.
The upstairs was 24 x45 feet of unobstructed space, plus six 6 foot by 8 foot dormers, three on the front, three on the rear. The final additional space was a utility room of 10 feet by 8 feet.
I would recommend carpeting, and recessed compact fluorescent or Xenon lighting.
The space also had its own AC system, separate and apart from the rest of the house.
It was a nice space, but spaces like that are like hungry dragons in that they constantly need to be feed, in this case money, for the utilities they use, the materials (vast amounts) to build the layout and the immense investment in time as well.
Eventually we sold the house and property as it turned out that I was spending a good portion of my "train time and money" tending to the acreage! Now have something much smaller, and I am much happier with it.
colvinbackshop wrote: I have a fairly decent Trainroom set up in a stand alone building. This was a retro / after thought and it's not perfect, but it does work pretty well....However, a few things already mentioned and that I don't have, that I see as necessary are:A restroom and a crew lounge / entry to the Trainroom would be huge!
I have a fairly decent Trainroom set up in a stand alone building. This was a retro / after thought and it's not perfect, but it does work pretty well....
However, a few things already mentioned and that I don't have, that I see as necessary are:
A restroom and a crew lounge / entry to the Trainroom would be huge!
One of the things I hate about my workspace now, is that it;s detached. Which means to get to it, it;s slogging through 100 degree humidity, or 10 degree snow. It;s something to consider, if you have to go outside to get to the layout, live in moderate temperature area.
Good topic with excellent suggestions. Wife & I are building an 18'x20' designated train room bwlow a new master bedroom. (heating & air guys are working as I type) With the wife wanting a 4'x8' table for her HO circus/carnival layout, I'll be happy with an N scale shelf layout around 2 or 3 walls.
We have 3 larger "north facing" windows on the back side, so it will be rare that any direct light can find it's way in. Blinds can fix that easily enough. We're going with 1" of spray foam insulation with regular R13 over that. Sure made my studio quiet. We can see the cows mooing & horses whinnying outside, but can't hear a thing.
As for lighting, we are planning on track lighting and the more the better. Each track will have it's own dimmer switch. Hadn't thought about the heat issue, but with 9 1/2' (plus) ceilings, not sure if that would be a factor? I have track lighting in my studio and notice no heat from them, although the ceilings in that room are higher.
Considering our age and the fact we have no layouts yet, I suspect this smaller size train room will be fine for our lifetimes. Rob