The Perfect Trainroom

[BATMAN]

Well the wife and I are talking about moving to a larger acreage and designing our own house. With the economy sliding we think we can finally get a good contractor at a reasonable price. So out comes the architect program and away we go. First question is how big??? What size would you make it if you could choose a room size? My current layout is 15' x 24' and upon thinking about what I have accomplished and what I would like in a layout a 30' x 30' foot room would be good. I think I could have all the things I would want in a layout in that space and not have over extended my ability to complete the layout to a reasonably finished state. ( I know we are never finished but you know what I mean) So what about lighting? Suggestions please. Track or pot lights? Or some other type. I want lots of windows so I can look out over the countryside in the day when I like to work on the layout and at night when I just like to run trains the room light could still be well controlled through lighting. We are thinking of getting those windows that use power to darken them in the day if need be. I am looking for all ideas you may have that I have not thought of. The wife has her horse barn and dog runs all figured out so now it's my turn. The sky is the limit so let's have those ideas please.

Brent

[Texas Zepher]

So what about lighting? Suggestions please. Track or pot lights? Or some other type.

We went with track lighting and it made the room HOT.  The pot lights might keep the heat up in the ceiling.  However, I would suggest something with LEDs. Save power and not create heat.

I want lots of windows so I can look out over the countryside in the day when I like to work on the layout

Yipes!  My ideal layout room has zero windows.  I might suggest a "crew lounge" with windows & cool stuff in it separate from the layout.  Then if you really want the view while working on the layout make some sort of removable backdrop that could be removed for the scenery view while working and put in place for the layout.  

I am looking for all ideas you may have that I have not thought of. The wife has her horse barn and dog runs all figured out so now it's my turn. The sky is the limit so let's have those ideas please.

A crew bathroom.  A storage room.  A display area (non-running trains).  A workroom or shop.  Guest viewing balcony or alcove or something.

[pike-62]

A friend of mine who is not a modeler has what I think is the perfect train room in his house. When we built the house we used attic trusses for the roof which have a 14' wide x 9' tall opening in them. This runs the entire 44' length of the house. When we put in the staircase for this "room" we made it come up right in the center. One could build an around the room layout up there and do a couple of levels if so desired. I planned, in my head, a 3' wide shelf layout with 60" radius curves, a couple of yards and several small towns.

 

Dan Pikulski

www.DansResinCasting.com

[Flashwave]

Higher cielings. Especially if you want to go Mushroom or something, slopeing peakes prevent outside walkways.

Also go weith a s few support beams as possible.

[cowman]

I agree with Dan, whether you go up into the room or down into it, have the stairs in the middle.  The size of the room is up to how much you want.  One large yard can serve as both ends of a point to point, if you want.  Peninsulas can extend your length of mainline without having multi-levels, or can be a mix of both. 

Sounds like you have a lot of planning, building and fun in your future.

Good luck,

[loathar]

My ultimate train room would be an old restored heavy weight passenger car in the back yard.
(with money trees growing all around it!)

[Bikerdad]

If you want windows, then get windows.  I'm not sure if the auto-dimming feature is necessary up there in the gloomy Northwet, but you'd have a better sense of that than I.  Something I would add to EVERY room of any house I built is a Solartube or skylights.

For the windows, I'd make sure you have some way of covering them (drapes, blinds, newspaper and masking tape, whatever).  Incorporate as many "multi-use" features in the room as you can, because its probable that at some point in the future, the room will no longer be a train room.  Yer grandkids may curse you because the large salvaged boiler you put down there for "atmosphere" makes it impossible to sell the place, and too expensive to remove it.  (Just a possible fer instance, if ya know what I mean.)

When asking "how big", well, what scale are you talking about?  What sort of trackplans are you considering?  How much of your existing layout will be incorporated?  Operating sessions with a "crew", or solo layout?

I would make sure that there is a direct entry from the "utility room" (home of the utility sink) to the layout room.  Having running water and an area where you can make watery messes very close by will make life simpler for you.  Also, incorporate a dedicated vent to the outside that you can hook a paintbooth up to, if you plan on doing any airbrusing.

Make sure that you allow easy access for the building materials that will go into the layout.  That means being able to maneuver an 8' long x whatever wide chunka stuff in.

Consider varmint, dust and moisture control.  Neither varmint nor moisture control are much of a problem down here, but dust is an absolute nightmare.  Incorporate space and whatever other elements are necessary for filtration, dehumidification, etc as appropriate for your environment.

Noise.  Decide how much noise you want to allow between the train room and the rest of the house, considering both the heavy construction phase, and the quieter phases.

Electronics.  Wire for 'em.  Stereo, 'puter and 'Net, TV.

Subpanel.  If this space looks like a good contender for a future owner to use as a workshop, then put a subpanel in now.  Not only will it help your resale value, but it will also allow you to shut the entire trainroom down at once.  If you do put a subpanel in, make sure that one lighting circuit is off the main panel.  That way you can "lock out" the layout, whatever tools may be in there, etc, while still having lighting.  And if you trip the subpanel's breaker, you won't be in the dark.

Have a small wetbar in there, with a small TV.

That's all I have for now regarding the space itself.

 Good luck with it, grace and peace, BD

[Johnnny_reb]

The ultimate layout building?

Say 30 X 40 with a crew lounge, bathroom and a workshop along the long side.  With the workshop at one end, bathroom(s) at the other, entrance and crew lounge centered between them. large windows in the workshop and crew lounge areas, smaller ones in the layout area. 200amp electrical panel, Layout area, 30 X 30 Edit: 20 X 40 with electrical outlets every six feet, Overhead tube lights for general room lighting, LED rope lighting above the layout itself. Benchwork framing would be modular in design for easy repair/rebuilding of any section. Train control would be DCC with radio handhelds. Phones or intercoms installed aound the edge of the layout along with a phone and intercom to the house and crew lounge.

[Last Chance]

Im sitting in what I know is the future train room. The total space will be about 14 by 24 with the option to widen another 10 feet or so on one side. It's enough to accomodate my needs and ideas without getting too frankenexpensive.

A family member told me once long ago, acres of land free and clear without zoning problems gives one freedom to expand in any direction. Not something you will find on a 1/4 acre or less lot squished between houses 10 yards on either side.

So, my first rule of big train rooms and expansions. Get several acres of land to live on. Get out of the subdivisions and away from the kill-joy home associations and local towns. Get away from all of that restrictive stuff.

Dont build a layout you cannot maintain if you are aged and in a wheelchair. Think about the future.

Second rule, make access to the train room easy. Walk into it swinging a 4x8 sheet of plywood and see how you do. Keep everything ISOLATED from the rest of the house. If it means installing a large door that will seal the noise, dust and whatnot inside that room away from the living spaces.

Third rule. Fire safety. You might not want windows or that outside doorway. But you will want to get out of that room rather quickly if something goes bad. Consider a fast breaker panel that you can get to and throw the switch to kill the entire room without disrupting the rest of the home.

Forth, dont build a room so big that you see your heating and cooling max out and become inadequate for the rest of the home. It's not fun trying to stay warm on a little one ton unit that is feeding a place that tripled in size suddenly.

Fifth, think about the location of that room and how easy it is for a thief to get into it or out of it. Displaying 10 thousand dollar engines pulling 3 thousand dollar trains and miles of copper wiring for all to see from the street isnt very conductive to security.

Finally but not last. Keep that room generic. So if all your train stuff disappears and nothing but empty space in there, the future buyers might see it as something THEY can use instead of just a worn out choo choo train room.

[PASMITH]

So what about lighting? Suggestions please. Track or pot lights? Or some other type.

We went with track lighting and it made the room HOT.  The pot lights might keep the heat up in the ceiling.  However, I would suggest something with LEDs. Save power and not create heat.

I want lots of windows so I can look out over the countryside in the day when I like to work on the layout

Yipes!  My ideal layout room has zero windows.  I might suggest a "crew lounge" with windows & cool stuff in it separate from the layout.  Then if you really want the view while working on the layout make some sort of removable backdrop that could be removed for the scenery and put in place for the layout.  

I am looking for all ideas you may have that I have not thought of. The wife has her horse barn and dog runs all figured out so now it's my turn. The sky is the limit so let's have those ideas please.

A crew bathroom.  A storage room.  A display area (non-running trains).  A workroom or shop.  Guest viewing balcony or alcove or something.

When I was looking at houses in Memphis in anticipation of our company move from New York, the first thing that I looked for was a room with the least amount of windows. My existing railroad room was in the basement and the windows were few, high and out of the way. Memphis houses have no basements and it then began to dawn on me that windows would be a problem.

Peter Smith, Memphis

[HHPATH56]

       I have always considered my detached 24'x24' garage loft, (with inside stairway along one wall), as the perfect "dedicated train room, with no obstructions". As to windows, this room has small windows on the gable ends. I use pull down shades (with scenery painted on them) so that I have continuous scenery around all four walls. Before construction of any layout I installed a suspended ceiling, with 10 double tube shop lights, evenly spaced in three rows, with transluscent panels over the lights. This, of course, prohibits light dimming. My biggest problem is that I did not provide for adequate electrical amperage. Winters in Michigan are cold! I have a DCC Digitrax SuperChief, three heaters, and ,also,"need amperage for soldering irons, ( under table "tail light" circuit breakers), etc! I often wish that I could install a bathroom and an additional (pull-out workshop) I am going to install adequate additional electrical circuits, and divide the layout into four independent "Power Districts", each of which have probe controls for 24 of the 96 total turnouts, wyes, and reverse loops. Actually, my total layout was preplanned for expansion, from a simple one wall layout to and around the room layout with two staging yards, two harbors, and plenty of spurs and run-arounds, so that 6-8 trains can run simultaneously, over 18 different routes. Most fairly large layouts seem to be "point-to-point" or double loops, with no ability for trains to change direction, or choose different routes.  My intent was to maximize the switching, choice of direction and routes, with adequate lengthy "run-arounds", for different priority trains. Bob Hahn

[colvinbackshop]

I have a fairly decent Trainroom set up in a stand alone building. This was a retro / after thought and it's not perfect, but it does work pretty well....

However, a few things already mentioned and that I don't have, that I see as necessary are:

A restroom and a crew lounge / entry to the Trainroom would be huge!

[Midnight Railroader]

I want lots of windows so I can look out over the countryside in the day when I like to work on the layout and at night when I just like to run trains the room light could still be well controlled through lighting.

Wow, I specifically avoided windows in my layout room. They'd just have to be covered up.

[ndbprr]

I want a 10,000 square foot basement.  My wife wants at most an 1800 square foot house.  I said there was no problem.  We will build a pyramid. With the look I got I guess not.

[csmith9474]

Kegerator?

[Texas Zepher]

Kegerator?

That would be one of the "cool stuff"s I was talking about in the crew lounge.   Also, book shelves, wide screen monster TV for train videos, with surround sound of course.  Fire place, and table for cards & rail games like Avilon Hill's Rail Barons, Mayfair Silverton, etc.   Computer with broadband internet connection, and rail simulators/ design software.

[Cederstrand]

Good topic with excellent suggestions. Wife & I are building an 18'x20' designated train room bwlow a new master bedroom. (heating & air guys are working as I type) With the wife wanting a 4'x8' table for her HO circus/carnival layout, I'll be happy with an N scale shelf layout around 2 or 3 walls.

We have 3 larger "north facing" windows on the back side, so it will be rare that any direct light can find it's way in. Blinds can fix that easily enough. We're going with 1" of spray foam insulation with regular R13 over that. Sure made my studio quiet. We can see the cows mooing & horses whinnying outside, but can't hear a thing.

As for lighting, we are planning on track lighting and the more the better. Each track will have it's own dimmer switch. Hadn't thought about the heat issue, but with 9 1/2' (plus) ceilings, not sure if that would be a factor? I have track lighting in my studio and notice no heat from them, although the ceilings in that room are higher.

Considering our age and the fact we have no layouts yet, I suspect this smaller size train room will be fine for our lifetimes. Rob

[Flashwave]

I have a fairly decent Trainroom set up in a stand alone building. This was a retro / after thought and it's not perfect, but it does work pretty well....

However, a few things already mentioned and that I don't have, that I see as necessary are:

A restroom and a crew lounge / entry to the Trainroom would be huge!

One of the things I hate about my workspace now, is that it;s detached. Which means to get to it, it;s slogging through 100 degree humidity, or 10 degree snow. It;s something to consider, if you have to go outside to get to the layout, live in moderate temperature area.

[4merroad4man]

Had my ultimate train room.  Upstairs in a house on 5 acres.

The upstairs was 24 x45 feet of unobstructed space, plus six 6 foot by 8 foot dormers, three on the front, three on the rear.  The final additional space was a utility room of 10 feet by 8 feet.

I would recommend carpeting, and recessed compact fluorescent or Xenon lighting.

The space also had its own AC system, separate and apart from the rest of the house.

It was a nice space, but spaces like that are like hungry dragons in that they constantly need to be feed, in this case money, for the utilities they use, the materials (vast amounts) to build the layout and the immense investment in time as well.

Eventually we sold the house and property as it turned out that I was spending a good portion of my "train time and money" tending to the acreage!  Now have something much smaller, and I am much happier with it.

[stebbycentral]

...has a bar? 

[tatans]

You have the main criteria for the layout you want, money. And from some of the replies to this subject a few people seem to want to mix model railroading with heavy drinking, that's a new twist, isn't it???

[BATMAN]

       I use pull down shades (with scenery painted on them) so that I have continuous scenery around all four walls.

I really like this idea and have just seen a pull down shade that covers the whole wall instead of individual windows. You can have it made to any length you need. I will need to find a good artist though. Keep those ideas coming.

Brent

[Paul3]

Perfect train room?  Hmm...

I would go for a drop ceiling with recessed lights.  If money was no object, then I'd get natural-light type fluorescent fixtures.  This can give your layout room Noon-type outside lighting.  I'd use track lights sparingly to highlight various places if need be.  Another option is to use variable lighting to simulate dusk and night conditions (maybe using blue light bulbs).

I'd also have the walls curve into the ceiling and into each other...no 90 degree wall corners anywhere.  Smooth transitions make the room look bigger and more natural for a layout scene.

For HVAC, I would try to avoid forced hot air as you don't want the dust.  Baseboard heaters would be better.  A/C is also on the want list, of course, but I would try to keep it from blowing on the layout itself if possible (again, dust).  If you keep the layout as dust free as possible, you'll find you won't have to clean track nearly as often.  Perhaps some air filter/dust removers running would help.  Oh, and if you live anywhere it gets humid, get dehumidifiers, too.  A/C isn't enough to dry out the air unless it's running constantly.

I'd also want my workbench, paint booth and tool storage in there, too.  I'd also want some kind of sink for cleaning up dirty hands, water for plaster, water for air brushing, etc.  Maybe even a full restroom, instead.

Don't forget electrical outlets.  I'd go heavy on these as we always seem to need to be able to plug in another accessory, or a drop light, a vacuum, or something that needs power.  Instead of twin outlets, use quads...and put more of them around the room.

I'd probably use carpet for the floor, but I'm not 100% sold on that.  I imagine dropping a part and never being able to find it.  Not to mention spills and the like.  I do like hardwood floors, or tile, or linoleum, but these can be cause to layout room to be a little noisier.  (shrug)  This I can go either way with.

I would equip the room with built-in display cases (lit up, of course) and shelving for books, etc.

I'd also install a TV for watching sporting events while modeling (something I do already).

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[Flashwave]

On carpet: Go with a shorthair cheapy. You deal with spills, but you get something that will absorb the impact of falling parts, thus narrowing the range of where they hit, but not lose them in a jungle of thick matting to be found by your feet.I also recconmend a light color. Black screws and dark green linoleum should never meet.

[Dean-58]

Subpanel.  If this space looks like a good contender for a future owner to use as a workshop, then put a subpanel in now.  Not only will it help your resale value, but it will also allow you to shut the entire trainroom down at once.  If you do put a subpanel in, make sure that one lighting circuit is off the main panel.  That way you can "lock out" the layout, whatever tools may be in there, etc, while still having lighting.  And if you trip the subpanel's breaker, you won't be in the dark.

Have a small wetbar in there, with a small TV.

That's all I have for now regarding the space itself.

 Good luck with it, grace and peace, BD

Ouch, there's something I've forgotten about for years, yet it's very important!  MR has occasionally recommended a separate power panel for the model RR room, be it basement, attic, garage or spare room--as far back as Linn Westcott.  How many of you old-timers like me, suddenly recalled that this was how the late John Allen's beautiful Gorre & Daphetid died a horrible death after John was gone: a short in the electrical system of John's un-California-like basement set fire to the house!  I haven't seen anything about this in print for years, but it's well worth thinking about: as you leave the layout room you throw the master switch on the power panel and kill all electricity within the room.  How often have you forgotten to switch off the layout's power after your latest session?  Even a 12V short can start a fire!

[hcc25rl]

The perfect trainroom; no kids, no pets, no wife, all the space one could ask for as well as a fridge full of beer.

Jimmy

[Medina1128]

My ultimate train room would be an old restored heavy weight passenger car in the back yard.
(with money trees growing all around it!)

And the Big Rock Candy Mountain..

[clinchfield36]

i can't believe that nobody has said it yet, and it should probably go without saying, but while you're still building, make sure you at least put in provisions for a spray booth vented to the outside. i didn't on my previous layout and so i consequently spent bitter Michigan winter days outside praying that some paint would dry in the frigidity. NOT FUN.

[doctorwayne]

....for me would be a 12' wide hallway, with one door, no windows, and lots of lighting.  Length should be in the 400' to 500' range.  

Wayne

[Last Chance]

I paint outside on the porch subject to temperature, wind and humidity limits.

Ive done this since Spouse's sensitive to chemicals and odors. No painting in deep winter. So any other time of year is the time to paint with sprays and wintertime is using water based paints inside like Tamiya.

Keeping fumes out of the house is important because we have gas fired devices all over.

There is one other thing that I have decided to consider. Soundproofing. Ive gotten tired of the neighbors with thier 7000 dollar car stereos. I have two choices. Build soundproofing and isolate the train room or sell house and move out into the woods where there aint no cars within a few miles range... particularly those that like to hang about the street all day.