And you thought you were ripped off...

[Anonymous]

One solution I can see would be to go over to marketing US-built models as "premium" brands - Many people buy BMW/Audi/Mercedes cars because they are marketed as being "premium" - this has helped these companies to survive in a niche market. They survive despite competition from the rest of the world because of this. It is possible to buy a vehicle made in Japan that is, in engineering terms at least, the equal of any German product, but people still buy BMWs over Mitsubishis due to the clever marketing.

I'll admit I wince when I look on the back of the box and see "Made in China" - here in the UK we used to make some of the best model trains in the world - the old Hornby-Dublo and Hornby O ranges when Hornby was part of Mecanno. It seems that moving production overseas is now "necessary" to keep prices down, however, when problems occur, spares and repairs are harder to obtain. For example, a year or so ago Bachmann released a new OO-Scale model of an LNER A1 pacific. The first batch were recalled due to major problems with the drive system - they were overheating and unable to haul decent-length trains. Bachmann had to send all the recalled models on a return trip to their Chinese factory for remotoring, which took several months. It is also almost impossible to obtain body fittings for Bachmann locos as only complete shells and chassis are shipped over - not much help if you need a brake handle or other small component. As of now, there is only one sizable company producing model trains in the UK - Dapol. They have capitalised on the resulting shorter production times by specialising in limited-run and special-edition stock. My LHS has commissioned 4 freight wagons from them (these involve an existing tool but with custom painting, in this case the liveries of a few local companies). I have one of each, and they're excellent models.

The "Premium" approach might well be the best bet for keeping jobs in the US, as consumers will tend to accept the higher prices if they think they are getting a product that is in some way better: Example, apparently KFC introduced new "Extra-crispy" fried chicken, at the same price as their normal chicken, but sales were sluggish. When they upped the price and badged the same Extra-crispy chicken as a "Premium" product, sales soared!

[Anonymous]

Until and unless the current economic cycle is broken the situation we all find ourselves in will continue. And it is us that is to blame overall. We each and everyone of us have to become involved in our country at all levels.

And it won't be easy to do. There have to be more that care than do not. People have to be educated in many things. But take for example a family of four with Mom and Dad working to survive. How much time do they have to get involved in anything? Now multiply that by the middle class. Who does it leave to get the job done?

Look at some of the figures - one in 73 goes bankrupt, home foreclosures at their highest point ever. The list goes on and on.

On the new Medicare bill. Facts are coming out about the true cost of it. A hundred billion more to 500 hundred some odd. And Carl Rove is quoted as saying "much ado about nothing". Those hundreds of billions is tax money.

The corporate world is rife with the stench of wrongdoing caused by greed.

Even our government appears to be lying to us on many things. I am surprised about the many facts surfacing that the goverenment has not refuted. It is down right scary.

What really scares me how will my grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc. live in this world.

As I said - we have to have people that care and are willing to do something about this quagmire we are in. Talking alone will not get the job done.

BUT it can be done if we all want it badly enough.

[Anonymous]

To all of you who are truckers-yes, I know how truckers have to put up with their companies various rules, other drivers who don't realize you're supposed to be careful around semis... But if trucking companies had to build their own roads with their own money, I'd like to see how they would make out. I have no problem with short hual trucking and truck-train service. And I know why the ICC was created. In the 1800's it was probably a necessity but in the 1940's railroads had no such monopoly on the transportation industry. And no-one gripes about how much more fuel a Peterbilt with a 53 feet trailer uses than a SD-70M in porportion to how much they're carrying.

[Jetrock]

several things:

first of all, the roman empire didn't fall due to outsourcing its means of production. it began its collapse when it was no longer able to plunder neighboring regions for loot to pay for public-works projects. suddenly they lost their income source and had to raise taxes and decrese services.

it isn't the truckers' fault the railroads died off. The trucking industry grew because of the massive public-subsidized highway system could be used by them--amounting to a massive public subsidy--but the railroads got a similar subsidy in the 19th Century with all their land grants. Today's shipping is becoming more interdependent, depending on both rail and road transport due to the increased use of intermodal shipping.

why do people blame Mitsubishi for making the Zero but you don't hear people griping about how Porsche made the Tiger tank??

roadtrp: Service jobs are dropping in one notable sector--call centers. Many are being outsourced to India.

on Wal-Mart: Those fiends built their reputation on flag-waving patriotism--they used to boast about how they'd carry American-made products whenever possible, but failed to mention that this meant "we'll buy American products if you happen to have a T-shirt factory that pays its workers fifty cents a day, like the place we buy our T-shirts from now in southeast Asia..."

[Roadtrp]

We have no one but ourselves to blame. We all want our stocks to return 15% - 20% a year, and we want inexpensive goods in the stores. The corporations are only trying to give us what we want - large profits to keep our stock prices up and cheap goods.

Overall, we are still better off than any other country on earth. For the most part Americans have benefited more from the reduced prices of goods resulting from free trade than they have suffered from lost jobs.

Edited to add: The service sector of the economy (retail, restaurants, etc.) has had a HUGE growth in jobs over the past 20 years, and those jobs will NEVER be exported to another country. The problem is that for the most part those jobs don't pay much. We need government intervention in the form of a higher LIVABLE minimum wage, or Unionization to demand the pay and benefits that unions previously won for workers in the manufacturing industries.

[IRONROOSTER]

A couple of thoughts.

The ICC was formed because of abuses by the railroads in the 1800's when shipping rates were based on the number of railroads in your town. Government regulation may not be pleasant but is necessary to prevent abuse by big business (just look at Enron).

Yes manufacturers use cheap labor in China, it started with Japan, moved to Korea and Tawain, and now is in China and Vietnam. This is a direct result of the consumer (that's us) demanding the lowest possible price and the stockholders (that's your 401k or IRA plan) demanding the greatest profit.

The global economy is upon us. The changes are not well understood by anyone yet (a lot of PhD material here). I am hoping to get to retirement before my job gets outsourced to India or Ireland (two places where computer job are going). But if not, I'll have to adjust and adapt by learning new skills that are in demand here. I think the government is going to have to get more involved not to keep jobs, but to develop new jobs and retrain the workforce. Our edge is technology and to stay ahead we're going to have to invest in it through our schools and colleges.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Well before you no it nobody will have jobs here and a country we're not very friendly with gets more powerful.

[armchair]

I take great offense at your uninformed view of the trucking industry in this country. The rules and regulations on our driving jobs are unreal. The sacrifices made by truckers and their companies are overlooked by too many people . It is too easy to complain when your local store shelves are stocked with fresh produce and groceries. If it weren't for trucks you would starve. The goverment does not subsidize trucking companies I have worked for over the years they cost them as well as I great deals of money. I am surely tired of the negative attitudes of trucks as well as I am of people complaining about things they know nothing about...........................

[Anonymous]

The sad thing is that what all of you are saying is not only true, but its been going on for a long, long time. It didn't just happen during the last 3+ years of Bush 43, its been happening since the fifties. Cheap toys were imported from Japan by the boatload after WW II, then from China, South Korea and so on. The textile mills moved from the Northeast to the Southeast years ago to escape the Union shops and reduce labor costs. Since then there has been a steady migration to all corners of the globe (except the good ol' USA). Same is true for the tanneries and shoe makers. Look at the country of origin in your shirt, or in your shoes. More and more cars are imported every year, especially by the Big Three. If you drive a full sixe GM pickup its probably made in Canada, as well as many other GM products. When my old '84 Pontiac STE crapped its instrument panel, the replacement and failed original part were from Mexico-the car had been assembled in Canada. GMC Yukon XLs, Chevy Suburbons & Cadillac Escalades (long ones) are built in Mexico-yes the biggest, baddest Caddy is a Mexican import! All Chrysler LH cars come from Canada. At first I laughed and then got angry when Lee Iacocca spouted off in his book and in speeches against buying imported cars-esp. from Japan. (when he took credit for saving Chrysler) because every single Mitsubishi is a Chrysler product from -yeah Japan! And now the Germans own most of Chrysler. The American taxpayers bailed out Chrysler by the way. . . Automotive components are sourced-out all over the world. I'm now a self-employed furniture designer/cabinet maker and power tools that I purchase from Delta, Porter Cable,.Craftsman, Powermatic and Ridgid have moved all or most of their production of professional quality-not just weekend warrior stuff-to either China or Taiwan. This has been going on for years. We lost the entertainment industry-not Hollywood (although SONY owns a big chunk)-VCRs, DVD players, TV , stereo, etc. years ago; again to Japan and South Korea primarily. Kodak just got out of the instant camera business because the market died due to digital cameras: Kodak didn't think there was a market for them and failed to respond. Polaroid failed a decade ago. No cameras are made in this country any more. . .The computer you're using right now is either all or part from the Far East. And then there's our motorcycle industry except for Harley and a few specialty manufacturers that all went away a long time ago.. Kawasaki made fighter planes in WW II that sank our ships. (The Zero was a Mitsubishi product) Outsourcing of services-you know when you call up the customer non-service dept . for help and you can't understand the person who answers the phone - anyway thats the latest round of business going offshore. I spent years in sales and marketing management in the semiconductor industry in Silicon Valley (before becoming a self-employed furniture designer/cabinetmaker). Most of the fabrication production-silicon wafers, lead frames, etc. was moving off shore in the mid 70s, not something that just happened in the past 3 + years under Bush 43. Most of our test equipment and specialized production machinery was an import. It's not a Democrat or Republican exclusive thing - its big business catering to their bottom line and to their investors and/or shareholders. The Unions have been blamed for high wage and benefit costs, the American worker for indifferent quality, the US Gov't for high taxationand regulation and then deregulation, and the tree-huggers for strict and often absurd environmental craziness, like protecting snails, kangaroo rats and bugs. And to a significant degree, the blame is warranted. It's all about the cost of doing business. Yet we are the worst offenders because we buy all that stuff from overseas, especially from China. (If any President can be faulted for the onslaught of imports from China it's our 42nd one; someday all of the scary deals he made w/ China and North Korea will be made public-bet a lot of the trade issues we have know will come to light.) References were made to WalMart-it's not the same company founded by Sam, since he died (his kids are some of the wealthiest, greedy people in the world, however). What would Walt Disney think of the Disney organization if he suddenly arose from the dead?He'd be pixxxed! As far as model trains, it's a shame, in a perverse sort of way, that the Chinese imports--Broadway, Genesis, Proto1000/2000 and Spectrum, to name a few--are of such high quality. For the most part they are reasonably priced, and have, over the past decade, raised the bar for what we'll use to equip our layouts. What does one do? (I remove all references to 'made in China' just to feel better.) But I don't blame Bush, nor do I think he can necessarily correct it; nor does Kerry have a chance, either. You don't really think that Heinz is an American company do you? Some parts of the USA have been especially hurt by Chinese as well as other imports, ripping families apart due to financial hardship when businesses layoff or close down. Industry refers to it as down-sizing or out-sourcing. It's big business greed, and in a capitalist economy it's legal but not very nice. Tax breaks for business that do not source out production overseas, tax breaks for taxpayers at all income levels (and that is distorted election-year hype about how only the rich get a break-you got one didn't you?), and a hardline reassessment of our tariff policies are needed. The situations in Iraq and Afghanistan have no bearing on imports from China, jobs in the heartland, or US model train manufacturers not making their stuff onshore. Like I said at the start of this novelette, its been an ongoig, albeit worsening, scenario for over fifty years. It happened right in the communities we replicate on our model railroads-it wasn't just other modes of transportation that led to abandonment of routes by the railroads, but it was also changing economic conditions within those regions due to loss of market, consolidation of production facilities, gobbeling up of smaller competitors, and manufacturing moving to another locale, esp. offshore. Thanks for allowing me to vent my spleen , too.

[Anonymous]

Why is it that history must always repeat itself.

The Roman Empire was mighty and rich, until many resources were gathered outside of its empire. With this the people within the empire became poor and the government became corrupt and because of the monies being spent on feeding the poor the government went broke and the military could no longer remain strong and the rest is history.

Yes, there were other factors and the story is much longer, but these were major issues that contributed to the fall of Rome.

[Anonymous]

I gathered a list here as best as I could:
Models Mfg's. "Made in U.S.A.:
Bowser Manufacturing
Custom Model Railroads
Details West
Intermoutain kits ONLY (I can see why they don't make many kits now.)
Red Caboose
Kadee
Athearn Blue Box ONLY
Soundtraxx DCC
American Model Builders
Bar Mills
Model Die Casting
Microscale
Branchline Trains

The next list is the one I really hate to put down.
Model Mfg's. Importers (brass is left out as they always have and always will be imported.)
Life-Like
Bachmann Industries
Atlas Model RR Co.
Athearn Genesis and Ready-To-Roll ONLY
Model Rectifier Corp.
Walthers kits
Intermountain R-T-R ONLY
Custom Metal Works
Broadway Limited
Lionel
MTH
IHC

[Anonymous]

Yeah Paul , I've noticed that too. Kind of gives you a sick feeling. " Good ol cjm89 "kind of got me going now. I used to drive truck longhaul & I too would like to see more on the rails. But in Washingtons sake I'm trying to see things from their point of view , But I just can't seem to get my head that far up my A@$.

[Anonymous]

Hello!

Yes! Finally, people who think somewhat how I think. It's funny take wal-mart for instance....everywhere you turn wal-mart this and wal-mart that. It goes the same for other companies but since this can of worms has been opened by someone other than myself it is time for me to rant a bit.

How many of you are average workers? How many of you buy groceries at a grocery store that doesn't start with the name Wal? Most of us do at one time or another. It is coming to the point where a big store comes in the area who sells everything *except trains... their loss* and taking away consumers from already established stores in the area here is a prime example:

One summer Wal-mart decided to build a super store in a mid sized town with two already established grocery stores. So they build it andhave their grand opening. With in six months one of the stores is closing its doors can not compete....and in this coming spring the other will be closing its stores. This means jobs will be lost and the area I am in jpbs are becoming more and more scarce by the day!

Now we have or will have two closed stores combined employed well over 500 people. Now these 500 employees now have to spend time to find new jobs which around here could take awhile and that is time when no money is coming and so they do not have the funds to even go to wal-mart and shop!

No job, no money, means no shopping at wal-mart so not only did wal-mart get rid of their competition they also got rid of any new potential customers to shop at their store.

I call this shooting themselves in their own foot. Plus, if this keeps up with these kinds of companies it is going to come to the point where no one will be shopping Cause 1.) No Job, 2.) No Income and 3.) Prices are to high, and the reasons for the prices becoming high is because the volume of the consumers is going way down and instead of slashing prices so people can afford to buy stuff they raise them so they can still meet their quota of profits for that quarter.

I fore see a big economic flat line sad to say the rich become richer and the poor become poorer there is no middle ground and that is sad.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you are all right. I bet that when all of the founders of Red Caboose and even Kadee are retired and replaced, They'll move production overseas too. Makes me sick to think about it. Lionel trains by the way, are made in North Korea, not China. To think something as American as the Model Train is made by people who shot us down 50 years ago. There's no Americanism in our own country anymore. Dear Lord help our nation...[B)][V][:(][sigh]

[pbjwilson]

Ken,
I'm an old biker(Bicycle rider). Treks advertising when they first started all centered around the fact that their bikes were made in the U.S.
Not anymore. Just like all the rest everything is made in China. Look at Lionel - Made in China. Schwinn bikes - Made in China.

A friend of mine went to New York City last year and brought back a coffee mug from the statue of liberty. On the bottom of the cup - Made in China.

[Anonymous]

Hey cjm89, I know what you mean. We have a company (TREK) that makes bicycles that built an expensive plant here in our town just a couple of years ago. They are closing it & moving part of its operation 30 mi. away & the rest of it is going to.........you guessed it .China. Because of cheap labor. I bet their proffits rise now & the cost to us won't go down. Soon there won't be anyone around to aford to buy their products. The only ones who win are the "FATCATS" . It's only a matter of time & then we go belly up as a nation if things don't change.

[Anonymous]

Railroads in this country are probably the worst-treated companies for the lousiest reasons. In the late 1800's, the government put up the Interstate Commerce Commission, an organization that spent its entire life throwing out bull to railroads. It forced regulations left and right onto the lines, an action that if today was thrown on trucking lines, they would be whining and griping that it was unfair. The ICC didn't even allow the railroads to charge fair and competitive shipping rates for a time, mainly because all the ICC was cut out to be was a few trucking and airline lovers in fancy suits sitting around wasting taxpayer's hard earned money. And what does the government do after ICC was finally ended in the 1980's but subsidize trucking and airline companies and allow all of our industries to import from China! Here in Carrollton they're planning to build a 4-lane highway through this summer... Then the government brass's so-called Passenger Train Line, Amtrak, is wasting away from lack of funds. If Amtrak could recieve a penny off of the tax for every gallon of gas sold, they could have such excellent service to the point that branchline rail diesel cars could operate on Carrollton's KCS RR branch, and 100-mph rail lines would exist between all major cities. What no one in this country relizes is that WHO won both world wars for America and the world: THE RAILROADS. Who is commited to U.S. industrial development: THE RAILROADS. Who built America from the ground up and is cheaper and uses less fuel than any other mode of transportation: THE RAILROADS. But of course no one of any power in this country is going to fight for what's right... all they want is get filthy rich and kill off all of us "little guys". Then don't even get me started about globalization in this country... I saw an ad on TV yesterday showing a Chinese factory with Chinese railroads... the main pupose of the commercial was to point out every American should be against this sort of thing. That commercial made me mad to the point I was riled for the rest of the day. And yet I just ordered 3 Intermountain boxcars to find out that assembled Intermountain cars are imported from China. I'm not saying that they're poor quality models, many of them are top-quality models. But there's just something very sick and wrong about models of American machinery being made in other countries. The real railroads hurt from importing too. When Greene County, Illinois was still powered by the railroad, Carrollton had a steel fabricating plant, Roodhouse was the division point of the GM&O railroad, Hillview had a scale manufacturer... there were countless local industries. LOCAL INDUSTRIES, the very thing that we model on our layouts, just like everything else on the pike, they just don't exist any more. I suppose all of these industries have been moved to China or Mexico. And what does our president do, puts billions of dollars in the Middle East when people in the U.S. needed it. I imagine you think I'm blowing off more steam than a Pennsy RR Q-2, but what's going on in our country just isn't right. For those of you from Canada, England or elsewhere, hope you don't or don't already have the same problem.[V][V][xx(][:(][}:)][B)][:0]