Discuss: Things every layout should have.

[steemtrayn]

Mileposts. Most prototype railroads have them, few model RRs do.

[Geared Steam]

I thought you were just pulling my leg Chuck, thanks Jeff for clearing that up. I've been through that area many times but missed that old ROW, probably cause I was watching all the coal trains.  

[Ibeamlicker]

Every layout should have joy and passion,also happy trees(sorry Bob Ross).

[aloco]

At least one yard switcher.

If it's a steam switcher, it should be a small to medium sized loco without leading or trailing trucks.

If it's a diesel switcher it should be an end-cab loco (no short hood or low nose).

Just my opinion, of course.

[shayfan84325]

Only a few of you have mentioned figures.  I've come to find that they are critical for drawing viewers into the layout.  Folks seem to relate to a little person and the layout starts to become more real.  For me, people are in the top ten of must haves.

[Dean-58]

I had many visitors to my 4x9' HO scale Colorado Western--actually just the division point at Farley, CO, circa 1895.  I built the little town of Farley from plastic kits and a couple of scratchbuilt structures, with the main street running perpendicular to the edge of the table and a longer street running basically parallel to the main line.  At the eastern end of town, this street ended at the engine facility, with gallows turntable--in a timber turntable pit--preceded by the ash pit with bucket crane, 50 ton coaling station, and combination sand house/enclosed water tower.

The streets were lined with wood boardwalks and not only were there gas street lamps, but every building except the schoolhouse was lit up at night--though not every window showed light, as I'd added floors to 2 and 3-story (the Grand Hotel) buildings and partitioned all interiors.  The other end of the parallel street went past a scratchbuilt church and cemetery, turned toward the table edge and went past Orv's Western Woodcraft and Val's, a bawdy house, complete with red light.  The road crossed the tracks on a planked crossing and continued right to the edge.

What impressed my many visitors most?  They loved the "night," with the buildings and street lights glowing yellow from the oil lamps and the street lamps a little brighter because they were gas-lit.  In the daytime, they loved the outhouses and many rain barrels at the corners of buildings.  What surprised me most was how many of them noticed that each turnout had a switch stand, as I consider them de rigueur.  Although seldom seen, even on some of the most famous model RRs, I believe they transform even the most basic trackwork and make it seem much more prototypical.  They don't have to work, although it can be done, but just having them on head ties next to the turnout switch points makes your trackwork superdetailed!

(I spent many, many hours adding interior details and figures to the two saloons and the Grand Hotel dining room, but found that most people never noticed.  That said, however, be warned--or take notice!--that little kids invariably spotted the interior shortly after the town lights were switched on and the room went dark.)

[R. T. POTEET]

Chuck/tomikawaTT, I know this is PICKY! PICKY! PICKY! but neither I-10 nor the MILW goes/got anywhere near Tucumcari, New Mex; I-40 and The Rock does/did. And I-40 circumvents Tucumcari on the south and where the railroad passes underneath it was no longer The Rock but Sufferin' Pacific--although technically the line to Santa Rosa was built by and was owned by The Rock right up to its demise in 1980!

[marknewton]

Obviously, not everybody can have cribbing or tunnels, but if you are one of these people, what do you consider something a model railroad representing some area of Japan or Kansas ought to have, to be interesting and railroady in that Japan or Kansas way? 

G'day, AP!

I dunno about Kansas, but I have some thoughts about what would be interesting and railroady for a Japanese layout.

Instead of timber cribbing, which I don't think I've ever seen, I'd have a retaining wall or cutting sides faced with lozenge-shaped interlocking stonework - very common in Japan.

Tunnels on Japanese railways tend to be mainly in the countryside rather than the urban areas I'm interested in modelling. If I wanted a scenic break I'd probably use an overpass instead of a tunnel, either railway or road, as these are a distinctive urban scenic feature. But for a rural mountain scene, a typical tunnel mouth with an inscription above the keystone would be very "Japanese railroady".

Bridges are also a feature that could emphasise the Japanese aspect of a layout. Deck girder bridges are everywhere, often on cylindrical piers faced with cut stone, and painted in colours like bright oxide red, or often turquoise. A big truss bridge with grab irons and bright paint would also work well.

A tall wooden trestle wouldn't be appropriate. I've never seen one in Japan, even in old photos taken during the development of the network. So that's one thing I'll never have the challenge of building.

Some other distinctively Japanese railway features would include the grade crossings with their annoying electronic chimes and illuminated direction indicators, "safety first" signs on engine sheds, spring switchstands with blue and white "S" targets, spindly-looking catenary mast and portals, massively overbuilt versions of same, scissors crossovers, headmarks or nameboards on all types of trains, illuminated destination boards on station platforms, station nameboards in 3 different scripts, wicket gates, and pedestrian foot crossings between platforms, to name but a few.

As for structures unrelated to the railroad, geez, where would I start? Someone mentioned churches before - not too many of them in Japan, but temples abound. Some are enormous, others are tiny affairs, but all are very modelgenic, as are the torii at their entrances. A surprising number of Japanese private railways were built with the express purpose of connecting popular shrines with the government railway, or nearby towns and cities - "sangu" or pilgrimage railways" - so a temple is hard to beat as a typical lineside feature.

Outside the station there is often a bicycle stand or parking lot, often containing hundreds of pushbikes. There is also usually a number of vending machines, of all shapes and sizes, selling anything and everything. Land use regulation and zoning doesn't seem to be a big priority in Japanese cities and town, so it's very common to find residential, commercial and office buildings all intermixed on the one street.

Another very distinctive feature is the very narrow streets and lanes found in urban areas, and the insane ratmangle of utilty poles and overhead wires in every street. The streets should intersect at odd angles, and the corner building should be oddly-shaped to match. Any street with shops ought to be absolutely chockers with advertising signs, banners, posters and stands. Shops and dwellings should range from shiny and futuristic to decrepit, usually next to each other. Other buildings should look like they were built using whatever junk was to hand by a bunch of drunken brickies at the end of a three-day pissup. Older buildings often had storm shutters which were housed in permanently attached boxes on the wall next to the window.

Two non-railroad features I always like to include are the typical Japanese post boxes, and a "koban", which is a tiny one or two-man police station. Kobans are very often located near or next door to railway stations, and many of them have rather quirky designs.

I could keep going with this, but you get the idea...

All the best,

Mark.

[BlueHillsCPR]

What's up with the people who just can't seem to get past what specifically applies to their specific era, location, prototype, whims, etc. and apparently feel they need to critisize and/or shoot down ideas rather than contributing in the spirit that the O.P. intended?

Anyway.  I think this is a great thread and have seen some really good suggestions for things one might want to include in his or her layout. 

Every prototypical layout should have at least one freelanced area just to tick off the rivet counters.

BTW, power transmission, bus stations and wireless communications were ALL invented before 1900.  None of them were in widespread use or necessarily in the form we see today or in a specific area being modelled...but they had been invented. 

 

[markpierce]

Since my modeling interests lie in rural Texas; I would add a oil pump jack (aka a walking beam).  Models of these pop up from time to time; I have a couple to build.  In real life they vary in size, and the amount of time they actually pump is (or used to be) regulated by the Texas Railroad Commission (who's main function now is to regulate the Texas oil & gas industry).

About six years ago at Mexican Hat, Utah I saw an oil pump jack smaller than a loveseat.  The oil was being pumped into a small steel barrel (20-30 gallons?) on a tiny trailer.

Mark

[wedudler]

A cow.

Every layout should have at least one.

Here you're:

This pic is from my European station "Naumburg" at the FREMO meeting in Heinsberg 2008.

You know this special "cow"? Chocolate brand.  :angel:   

Wolfgang

[Autobus Prime]

Instead of timber cribbing, which I don't think I've ever seen, I'd have a retaining wall or cutting sides faced with lozenge-shaped interlocking stonework - very common in Japan.

mn:

Nifty! I've seen interlocking concrete walls here, but not stone. Do you have a photo or a link to one anywhere?

The vending machines somebody mentioned are a good idea, too. I guess anything people habitually use without thinking is good. Somehow, these things are extremely noticeable on a layout, when they're there, and really make it look like a familiar place...others might include trash cans, phone booths, fire hydrants, manhole covers, sewer grates, mailboxes, cellar doors, and electric and gas meters.

Did anybody mention old tires laying in ditches? It's hard to think of any layout in the post-car era that shouldn't have a few tires here and there.

Domestic flowers and shrubs are another good detail. A lot of our scale residences look barren.

[shayfan84325]

I think every layout should have something that is sort of toungue-in-cheek.  We've seen a few on the forums; one of my favorites is the Heartbreak Hotel, complete with Elvis and a hound dog.  On my layout, it's the Stave Brothers Cooperage (barrel factory).  John Allen had a bunch, but I liked Hangman's Bridge the best (it's where a diesel salesman was lynched, according to legend).  These little gags are a way of expressing the fun that the hobby represents.

[gunkhead]

Well, like I said, I think every line should have people in the cabs on the engines.

[NittanyLion]

What's up with the people who just can't seem to get past what specifically applies to their specific era, location, prototype, whims, etc. and apparently feel they need to critisize and/or shoot down ideas rather than contributing in the spirit that the O.P. intended?

You have to look at it like this: you can't just throw out "everyone should have a timber trestle" when vast chunks of the country either never had them or have been gone for the bulk of railroad history.  For example, Pennsylvania has been using steel for structural construction for a long time.  I can think of exactly one timber trestle in half the state that survived into my lifetime, and it was recently replaced with a fill (now theres a feature everyone should have).

[mobilman44]

Hi!

I've sure pondered this question many times over the years, and I had an easy time making up the list - but an awful time paring it down into what I could fit in nicely on my layout(s).

In no particular order, "every" layout of my era (steam/diesel) should have:

A freight yard, a passenger yard, a roundhouse, coaling tower, ash pit, water towers, diesel facilities, & MOW facilities.

A passenger station, freight station, ice house with icing platforms, yard offices, & cattle pens.

A complete farm, couple of small factories, coal/oil dealership, oil terminal, feed stores, grain storage elevators, a coal mine, logging/lumber facilities, & a gas station to show the era's autos. 

Scenery should include areas of forest, hills/mountains, and flatlands.  A river or stream will be bridged by various types of bridges, foliage, grass, weeds will abound, and all track will be properly ballasted. 

And then come the details, like people, crates/drums, signage, autos/trucks, junque, and all the flotsam and jetsam that we see every day.

Ha, I only wish I had room for all the above...........

Mobilman44 

 

 

[chutton01]

The vending machines somebody mentioned are a good idea, too. I guess anything people habitually use without thinking is good. Somehow, these things are extremely noticeable on a layout, when they're there, and really make it look like a familiar place...others might include trash cans, phone booths, fire hydrants, manhole covers, sewer grates, mailboxes, cellar doors, and electric and gas meters.

For a while such details for the modern era were lacking, but Walthers and other manufacturers have stepped up and brought out some nice ones in HO scale (specifically Phone Booths, Hydrants, mailboxes).  You don't have to go crazy putting them everywhere either, a few here and there (assuming you're just modeling nonrail area as 'slices' along the track, and not an entire city - which is probably a really poor assumption come to think of it...).
Hey, remember that guy who made an modern-looking lighted soda vending machine - looked pretty nice, but not sure if he ever really mentioned exactly how he made it.

Did anybody mention old tires laying in ditches? It's hard to think of any layout in the post-car era that shouldn't have a few tires here and there.

I think trash and litter was mentioned, but it doesn't hurt to reinforce it - heck, anytime after 1960 you can start adding big items like beat up washing machines and fridges into those ditches (although trash did tone down a bit starting in the 1990s, you can go crazy with trash along urban RR ROWs if you're modeling the 1970s-1980s - remember to add a few burnt out stolen vehicles while you're at it.  Newspaper (pieces of scrap paper), bottles (small pieces of colored transculent rod), and my favorite, small pieces of leftover squadron putty 'dripping', painted white to represent tossed fast food bags.

Domestic flowers and shrubs are another good detail. A lot of our scale residences look barren.

Busch and Presier have some nice flower sets out now, I don't remember seeing these detail kits until recently (the box I have stated 2006, so maybe they are indeed new), I have used them in a bed around a statue, and plan to use them in some residental front yards - and as I stated 3 pages ago, you can use timber ties to form a flower bed.

[Autobus Prime]

For example, Pennsylvania has been using steel for structural construction for a long time.  I can think of exactly one timber trestle in half the state that survived into my lifetime, and it was recently replaced with a fill (now theres a feature everyone should have).

NL:

Actually, the old B&LE branch to the viscose plant in Meadville approaches the French Creek bridge on (IIRC) a pile trestle. Pile trestles are probably closer to "every model RR" status than tall timber ones, now that I think of it.

See, a high fill is one thing I'd exclude from "every model RR" status. It's definitely typical, but unless it's a really attractive fill (perhaps a serpentine, curving fill, or one that crosses an interesting swamp) fills tend to block view of whatever is behind them (which is sometimes desirable), and don't add a whole lot of interest. Where a fill is wanted, I think it's best to model a rather short section (pick the nicest one. ) and then have a trestle or bridge so people can peer through.

It's not that a fill is bad or unprototypical, it's just that the interest / space cost ratio isn't as favorable as some other things we might cherrypick from the same stretch of prototype.

[marknewton]

Nifty! I've seen interlocking concrete walls here, but not stone. Do you have a photo or a link to one anywhere?

I've got a few shots, not as many as I thought, but here's some for starters:


Meitetsu Ibi Line


Hokutetsu bridge


A rise in Tokyo


Noseden bridge


Meitetsu station

The vending machines somebody mentioned are a good idea, too. I guess anything people habitually use without thinking is good...

I think that was me.


Shop in Higashi Tamagawa


Shop in Higashi Tamagawa


Shop in Nagano



Beer vending machines - can't remember where these were!

All the best,

Mark.

[marknewton]

I think every layout should have something that is sort of toungue-in-cheek.  We've seen a few on the forums; one of my favorites is the Heartbreak Hotel, complete with Elvis and a hound dog.  On my layout, it's the Stave Brothers Cooperage (barrel factory).  John Allen had a bunch, but I liked Hangman's Bridge the best (it's where a diesel salesman was lynched, according to legend).  These little gags are a way of expressing the fun that the hobby represents.

That's one way of looking at them. I don't care for them myself, as most of them aren't all that funny after seeing them more than once. I think unless you're as clever as Heath-Robinson or Rube Goldberg, you should leave model railroad whimsy well alone.

But to each their own. I've often been tempted to repaint one of my Kaetsuno Rly cars in this livery:



or build a model of these beasties:





All the best,

Mark.

[Guilford Guy]

Every layout should have an old beat up engine with gobs of paint and thick stickers on it.

jw:

I really think that discussion of Guilford shop practices should be kept in the Prototype Forum.

(Oh, that was a low blow)

Yep! What happens on Guilford stays on Guilford...

[MisterBeasley]

Every story needs a happy ending!  To me, that means every freight train needs a caboose.

No, I don't model the modern era.  And that's one of the reason's why...

[Left Coast Rail]

I think every layout should have something that is sort of toungue-in-cheek.  We've seen a few on the forums; one of my favorites is the Heartbreak Hotel, complete with Elvis and a hound dog.  On my layout, it's the Stave Brothers Cooperage (barrel factory).  John Allen had a bunch, but I liked Hangman's Bridge the best (it's where a diesel salesman was lynched, according to legend).  These little gags are a way of expressing the fun that the hobby represents.

My club has Hoffa Cement Plant.

[chutton01]

I think every layout should have something that is sort of toungue-in-cheek.  We've seen a few on the forums; one of my favorites is the Heartbreak Hotel, complete with Elvis and a hound dog.  On my layout, it's the Stave Brothers Cooperage (barrel factory).  John Allen had a bunch, but I liked Hangman's Bridge the best (it's where a diesel salesman was lynched, according to legend).  These little gags are a way of expressing the fun that the hobby represents.

My club has Hoffa Cement Plant.

Wasn't Hoffa Cement one of the sign options supplied with a Walthers kit? (I think the default one was Medusa Cement - which I just found via google is a real (and large) company).
Anyway I find these punny names a bit cringeworthy (back in the day, I had a Lifelike funeral home, one of the many derivatives of the Farm House, labeled 'W.E. Snatchum' - ugh).  However, I also realize that many businesses in decades past had such punny names (and various snippets in magazines like Reader's Digest that listed them), but not sure how common that is nowadays - doesn't seem too common nowadays here in NY, although I'm sure there's a few out there.

[shayfan84325]

I think every layout should have something that is sort of toungue-in-cheek.  We've seen a few on the forums; one of my favorites is the Heartbreak Hotel, complete with Elvis and a hound dog.  On my layout, it's the Stave Brothers Cooperage (barrel factory).  John Allen had a bunch, but I liked Hangman's Bridge the best (it's where a diesel salesman was lynched, according to legend).  These little gags are a way of expressing the fun that the hobby represents.

My club has Hoffa Cement Plant.

Wasn't Hoffa Cement one of the sign options supplied with a Walthers kit? (I think the default one was Medusa Cement - which I just found via google is a real (and large) company).
Anyway I find these punny names a bit cringeworthy (back in the day, I had a Lifelike funeral home, one of the many derivatives of the Farm House, labeled 'W.E. Snatchum' - ugh).  However, I also realize that many businesses in decades past had such punny names (and various snippets in magazines like Reader's Digest that listed them), but not sure how common that is nowadays - doesn't seem too common nowadays here in NY, although I'm sure there's a few out there.

I haven't been to New York in a long while, but here in Utah we still have a lot of fun with names of businesses.  I'll grant you that prototype tongue in cheek names are only seen once in a while, but there are prototypes.  In Logan, we have a real aritsan bakery named Crumb Borthers' Bakery.  I know of a real dentist named Dr. Payne.

Like most things, moderation is a good approach when it comes to this stuff; I admire fun little touches that express some lightheartedness, but don't detract from the realism of the scene.  It's a tricky balance.

BTW, one other industry on my layout is Spock's Wingnuts.  They advertise that their products are "the logical choice" as they have "bigger ears for a better grip."

[jecorbett]

I don't think there is anything EVERY layout should have other than track and trains. For my layout, these were the givens.

1. Lots of passenger traffic of all types. Limiteds, accomodations, commuters, and even a mixed train. I am old enough to remember when train travel was the norm even for long distance trips. I'm not sure when air travel surpassed train travel for long distance trips but my guess is the late 1950s or early 1960s.

2. Several passenger stations of various sizes.

3. A large urban area. So far, mine is still on the drawing board with lots of plywood space to fill. I intend to double the apparent size with a strategically placed mirror.

4. A large classification yard.

5. A locomotive roster with late steam and early diesels.

6. A turntable and roundhouse for servicing the steam fleet. Also all the other servicing facilities for the steamers.

7. A coach yard to allow for switching of passenger equipment instead of simply running it through with no consist changes.

8. Staging yards at both ends of the layout to enhance operations.

9. A branchline to create some interchange traffic with the mainline. This one is still on the drawing board.

10. Details that will establish a latter 1950s time frame.

[ndbprr]

The original post has some problems. if you model ATSF in the desert what are you going to use for a water feature?  If you model the east not many wood trestles there.  And so it goes. For every suggestion there is a railroad that didn't have that feature.  The critical element if doing prototype modeling is to be true to the prototype.

[gunkhead]

Well, on a Sodor layout, for something tongue-in-cheek, try the A.W. Dry workshop.

[marknewton]

The original post has some problems. if you model ATSF in the desert what are you going to use for a water feature?  If you model the east not many wood trestles there.  And so it goes. For every suggestion there is a railroad that didn't have that feature.  The critical element if doing prototype modeling is to be true to the prototype.

I think AP addressed your problem in his initial post, where he wrote:

"Of course, not all of us will have the same list."

I agree absolutely that if you're modelling a prototype, you should be true to that. It's something that I strive for, but a lot of what I do is really only recognisable to me. I think the underlying point AP was making is that we should think carefully about what the signature elements of our particular prototype are, and use them so our layouts tell a story that is recognisable to non-modellers, or to modellers who aren't familiar with our specific prototype.

It's something I haven't really given much thought to before now, and I think it's a great idea. In my case, it's made me think more about just what exactly makes a layout based on Japanese prototype distinctive, apart from the trains. Listing my "should have/must have" features has clarified a few things in my mind, and helped me develop some ideas that I've had for a while.

That being the case, I'm sure I'm not the only who thinks this a great thread!

All the best,

Mark.

[howmus]

I think every layout should have something that is sort of toungue-in-cheek.  We've seen a few on the forums; one of my favorites is the Heartbreak Hotel, complete with Elvis and a hound dog.  On my layout, it's the Stave Brothers Cooperage (barrel factory).  John Allen had a bunch, but I liked Hangman's Bridge the best (it's where a diesel salesman was lynched, according to legend).  These little gags are a way of expressing the fun that the hobby represents.

While I really think everyone should at least have some track, a locomotive, and some RR Cars.........  I too like the Tongue  in Cheek gags, especially sight gags.  Several of my businesses are named after family members and located where I get in big trouble with one of my sister's who "gets" the gags....  If your layout happens to be during Prohibition in America, you probably should have a moonshine still somewhere....

along with the Pink elephant.