I need some input from you pros out there. I'm getting ready to seal the concrete floor around the layout to keep the dust down. I'm kind of leaning towards a Behr or Rustoleum epoxy paint. The concrete is unsealed so I don't think I'll need any kind of etch on it. Kind of thinking the area around my work bench might need to be re-coated after some time due to heavy traffic, so something that can be put down in multiple coats would be a plus.Just want to hear good or bad experiences with paint/stain/sealer for concrete and any recommendations you might have.
Thanks!
I,ve done a few garages with a 2 part epoxy. water base. I cut in the corners with a wide throw away cheap brush and rolled the floor with a low nap roller sleeve. The paint I use can be made any color at the paint store. Last time I used it the cost was around 40 dollars a gallon. You mix it and wait 30 minutes for it to go off. then work fast. It has a nice shine to it and is very durable. Some floor paints you can,t park cars on. Something in the compounds react to the rubber and when you move the car the floor comes with it. This paint won,t do that. I put 1 coat on at the end of the day and the second coat on in the morning. then walk away for a couple days. I would suggest going to a good paint store and see what kind of products they have to offer. Real important to clean the floor. No dirt, oils, dust or anything you want to look at after it drys.
I have also done concrete staining. That also comes in any color and is the most durable product I,ve seen. It has a low sheen to it. I't semi transparant so it helps to have a clean base to start with. A good paint store could help you out there also. Either product you can put designs on your floor if you wanted. Do a google search on concrete or epoxy floor paints.
Good luck
Glenn
Selector-You can add those flecks to the epoxy paint. I'd probably just go with a straight color though. (easier to find coupler springs on.)
I was wondering if those stains would hold up better? The floor IS pretty clean and I like the idea of something that will soak in about 1/2" or so.
I'm NO expert, but have painted a floor or two over my years....
The absolute best product ever, was a sealer / color impregnator type product used on a locker room floor back some forty plus years ago. It NEVER had to be redone and NEVER shown any ware! I have no recall as to the name of the product and I doubt very seriously it's any longer available...Judging from the odor / off gassing during curing, it most likely was not people, nor environmentally friendly! But it worked great.
Moving forward to the 21st century: I have my Trainroom floor painted with Sherman -Williams Floor Enamel. It does come in a number of colors, but I just picked Battleship Gray.
It seems to be holding up very well, even at the entrance and in the "shop" area. I do agree, however, that prep. is VERY critical...Even on new concrete.
hobo9941 wrote:My layout is in the garage, with a concrete floor. So I put down some carpet remnants, under the whole layout. It's a lot easier on the knees, when you have to go under to work on the wiring, or fix a derailment on the backside of the layout. It's also a lot warmer than concrete. You should be able to find some fairly good carpet for free, if you look.
I agree with hobo9941 here. I used real thick high quality padding with some old carpet that was being thrown away. No sore feet, no back painand when car hits the floor there is minor damage if any. only drawback is DON'T DROP SMALL PARTS.
Les
loathar wrote:I looked at that Behr floor and porch paint today. They have a new 1 part epoxy paint out that's only $6 more/gallon than the floor and porch. I'm figuring 2 gallons should do 400sq. ft. I'd hate to regret saving $12 down the road. I'm thinking I'll have the same problem where my office chair is. I definitely want something I can re-coat a year or so down the road.
A small remnant of indoor/outdoor carpet with a very low pile should solve the office chair problem - I wish I was this smart whin I painted the floor!!
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
Here are a couple of links to discussions on concrete floor coverings.
ChevyTalk
Garage Journal
I did note one guy says he has heard nothing but bad things about the Behr floor paint.
The Rustoleum Epoxysheild Pro seems to get good reviews. There is a discussion with before/after pictures at garage journal
POR15 is pricey and results seem to vary.
The key to a good floor coating is PREP PREP PREP!!!
The funny thing about paint on concrete floors is that if you accidentally spill any old latex paint on the floor it will be there FOREVER! However if you actually want to paint the floor it peels and scuffs in no time...
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
I used the Behr concrete paint five years ago and it is still in great shape. No dust, no chipping and it cleans up nicely. The secret to success, as already pointed out, is to prep the floor thoroughly. Wash it down with TSP, rinse it completely and make sure it is dry before applying the paint.
John Timm
Here's a vote for the Rustoleum Epoxy. I did not only my train room but the entire basement. It really cuts downon the amount of dust. I have had a couple of places where the Rustoleum lifted but I think that was because I didn't get the floor entirely clean (preparation). I used the water based version and the odor is not too bad. It dissipates within the 12 houre curing time. I even have it in the laundry room where the washer drains into the floor drain. After about 5 years, it still shows no sign of wear or lifting due to moisture.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Tom
Life is simple - eat, drink, play with trains!
Go Big Red!
PA&ERR "If you think you are doing something stupid, you're probably right!"
BlueHillsCPR wrote: I did note one guy says he has heard nothing but bad things about the Behr floor paint.
This a variation on Athearn bashing - Home Despot bashing! Now I worked for the XXXX's for 8 1/2 years after retiring as a carpenter, and heard all the urban legends about "factory seconds" from every one of their vendors - this is not so, however you have to watch out for some of the "house brand" stuff. Not Behr or most of the other made in USA stuff, but if it says "made in China" be careful. Most of the Chineese stuff is OK, but not all - I won't start about the lead paint or melamine, but "Let the Buyer Beware"!! Back to Behr - check out Consemer Reports, they have given it top ratings almost every year. Behr Home Despot
No Skidding (that's the name of the company) makes some really good floor coatings and preparation materials. I've used them on a woodworkers club shop floor and they held up like iron. Here's a link to their catalog:
http://www.noskidding.com/pdf/ProductListing_Web.pdf
The no skidding component is abrasives that you can add to the coating. If you leave it out it just makes a really durrable floor coating. Their electrolitic cleaners are amazing for surface prep. We spilled some silicone lubricant on the floor and used this stuff and cleaned it right up. The cleaners are on page 2 of the catalog. Their products are really outstanding.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: The funny thing about paint on concrete floors is that if you accidentally spill any old latex paint on the floor it will be there FOREVER! However if you actually want to paint the floor it peels and scuffs in no time...
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Thanks for all the tips. I'll probably go with the Behr 1 part epoxy. It has a little longer working time and the price isn't too bad. That's a good idea about a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet under my office chair. Pick up the muriatic acid today, so I'm definitely going to prep it right.
lvanhen wrote: BlueHillsCPR wrote: I did note one guy says he has heard nothing but bad things about the Behr floor paint.This a variation on Athearn bashing - Home Despot bashing! Now I worked for the XXXX's for 8 1/2 years after retiring as a carpenter, and heard all the urban legends about "factory seconds" from every one of their vendors - this is not so, however you have to watch out for some of the "house brand" stuff. Not Behr or most of the other made in USA stuff, but if it says "made in China" be careful. Most of the Chineese stuff is OK, but not all - I won't start about the lead paint or melamine, but "Let the Buyer Beware"!! Back to Behr - check out Consemer Reports, they have given it top ratings almost every year. Behr Home Despot
Sorry, I should have clarified my stance on Behr at the same time. I have used Behr paint in the past and consider it to be top of the line. I can't comment on their floor paint though.
loathar wrote:Thanks for all the tips. I'll probably go with the Behr 1 part epoxy. It has a little longer working time and the price isn't too bad. That's a good idea about a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet under my office chair. Pick up the muriatic acid today, so I'm definitely going to prep it right.
Watch the fumes from that muriatic acid and don't spill it on anything you like. T.S.P. is a bit less hazardous IMO.
BlueHillsCPR wrote: loathar wrote: Thanks for all the tips. I'll probably go with the Behr 1 part epoxy. It has a little longer working time and the price isn't too bad. That's a good idea about a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet under my office chair. Pick up the muriatic acid today, so I'm definitely going to prep it right.Watch the fumes from that muriatic acid and don't spill it on anything you like. T.S.P. is a bit less hazardous IMO.
loathar wrote: Thanks for all the tips. I'll probably go with the Behr 1 part epoxy. It has a little longer working time and the price isn't too bad. That's a good idea about a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet under my office chair. Pick up the muriatic acid today, so I'm definitely going to prep it right.
Yeah, I know it's hazardous. Will TSP etch the concrete like muriatic acid does? I haven't seen any TSP in the stores lately. Only TSP substitute. Guess they're phasing it out like bleach.
Try a "paint store" if you can,t find it at a big box hardware store. The acid is supposed to be washed off. So say the instructions on the bottles I used. In a garage when your washing it off make sure the driveway is wet first and use lots of water to dilute the runoff. It will leave "bleach " streaks in the driveway. I guess in a basement you could let it dry up but I recommend all the fresh air you can get down threre till the fumes go away.
Here's a tip.
Generaly if you go to a paint store and ask advice they will tell you what works and what doesn,t. They deal with these products all day long and need their contractors make their customers happy. Generaly a Home Depot employee is a kid that couldn,t find his way home after work. Now I say "Generaly" . I,m sure there are employees in those companys that are experianced in their field. I havn,t found any yet. remember, they deal wit the homeowner/do it your selfer. A paint store deals with contractors that a homeowner hires to do a job right. (they hope) at least thats the therory. what ever you decide to do.. CLEAN THE FLOOR!! This fact cannot be stessed enough. You will be very pleased with the results.
loathar wrote:Yeah, I know it's hazardous. Will TSP etch the concrete like muriatic acid does? I haven't seen any TSP in the stores lately. Only TSP substitute. Guess they're phasing it out like bleach.
TSP can also be used as a masonry cleaner. However, if efflorescence or mortar staining are severe, you may need to resort to a more powerful but dangerous product, muriatic acid.
TSP Info
Just remember your ventilation! I imagine TSP is getting harder to find because of the effect phosphates have on the environment. I happen to have a box of it on hand.
Muriatic Acid
Ultimately it's your choice, but everything I have seen advises against using Muriatic Acid indoors!
I have to use muriatic acid with our swimming pool and it is nasty stuff. If you can avoid it, do so. I found TSP recently at both Home Depot and Lowe's.
spectratone wrote: Generaly if you go to a paint store and ask advice they will tell you what works and what doesn,t. They deal with these products all day long and need their contractors make their customers happy. Generaly a Home Depot employee is a kid that couldn,t find his way home after work. Now I say "Generaly" . I,m sure there are employees in those companys that are experianced in their field. I havn,t found any yet. remember, they deal wit the homeowner/do it your selfer. A paint store deals with contractors that a homeowner hires to do a job right. (they hope) at least thats the therory. what ever you decide to do.. CLEAN THE FLOOR!! This fact cannot be stessed enough. You will be very pleased with the results.
I worked for Home Despot (not a typo) for 9 years after I retired frrom my profession as a carpenter/cabinetmaker. In 1999, when I started, I was in a new store, and every departmenthad at least 1 or 2 "old guys" like myself who could actually help a customer - just not point them down an aisle - that is when you can find one now!! I was in hardware when I started, and we had 27 full-time employees in the department, including 4 other guys with construction experience. Today that same store/department has 12 employees - ONLY 2 OF THEM FULL TIME!! I worked at the Pro Desk/Contractor's desk for 4 years and as a millwork specialist for 4 years. During the 6 months since I was "layed off", I know of at least 8 others like myself, who were over 50 and using the medical insurance on a regular basis - and being paid over the minimum wake - is there something funny there? As spectratone said, go to a good hardware or paint store!!