Following is a pretty thorough review of the new Walthers Superliners. Feel free to read the whole thing if you're up to it, but don't feel bad if you just look at the pictures...that's probably what I'd do
History
Toward the mid 1970s the fleet of ragtag passenger cars inherited by Amtrak from various railroads began to reach the limits of their useful lives. New passenger cars for the west were needed, but what design would Amtrak choose? Would they choose something like the recent Amfleets, or would they go with something vastly different?
Ultimately the design chosen capitalized on the efficient double decked Budd built Hi-Levels of the Santa Fe. Amtrak purchased the entire Hi-Level fleet from the Santa Fe and obviously were impressed with the design. However after building the Amfleets for Amtrak, Budd was no longer manufacturing passenger cars. So the first Superliners were manufactured by Pullman Standard in the late 1970s.
The first order of cars included Coach, Coach Baggage, Diner, Lounge, and Sleeper models. Since the Hi-Levels were still in good running order, several of these (mostly former "Step Up" Coaches) were used as Coach Dorms on Superliner trains. The Pullman Standard Superliners are referred to as Superliner I.
As the Superliner fleet proved their efficiencies over the years, Amtrak decided to equip more trains with Superliners. Since Pullman Standard was no longer around, Amtrak's next Superliners were manufactured by Bombardier in the mid 1990s. These Bombardier Superliners are referred to as Superliner II.
The Superliner II order included Coach, Diner, Lounge, Sleeper, and Transition Dorm models. The Transition Dorms replaced the former Hi-Level Coach Dorms.
Background on the Walthers Models
Walthers introduced a very respectable Superliner line of cars in HO scale several years ago. In this original line, Walthers made models of a Superliner I Coach, Coach Baggage, Diner, Lounge, Sleeper and models of a Superliner II Coach, Diner, Lounge, Sleeper, and Transition Dorm. Some specially painted cars also included a Coach Smoker, and Auto Train Lounge. Models of the Supeliner I's were offered in phase II, III, and IV paint. While models of the Superliner II's were appropriately only offered in phase IV paint. For more information on what Amtrak paint schemes look like, try this post:
Amtrak Paint Schemes
Improvements of the new line of Superliners just released include the latest phase IVb paint and markings, full interiors, electrically ready metal trucks, built in light contacts, and a new simulated metal finish. You can also purchase a lighting kit that works for each model of the new Superliners on either DC or DCC layouts.
In this new line, Walthers currently offers models of a Superliner I Coach, Diner, Lounge, and Sleeper. They also offer models of a Superliner II Coach, Diner, Lounge, and Sleeper. To simulate a recent Southwest Chief consist I rode on, I purchased the following models:
Superliner I:
Superliner II:
Here is the full prototype consist if anyone is interested.
As you can see I'm missing a few passenger car to complete the consist. To be complete I need a Superliner I Coach Baggage, a Superliner II Transition Dorm, and a heritage baggage car. Walthers has just announced more Superliners and the next run will include a Coach Baggage. No official announcement has been made on a Transition Dorm at this time, but it can be assumed they will eventually release a model in the new plated finish. No information is available on an IVb baggage car, however Walthers did issue heritage baggage cars painted in various Amtrak phases a few years ago. Lets hope they reissue this model in IVb paint with a plated finish.
Walthers and Athearn have joined forces to release a few phase V painted P42 locomotives over the years. I currently have the two newest on order. They are expected at Walthers by September 25th.
Review of the Models
The new Superliners come nicely packaged in attractive boxes. Here's what a Superliner I Coach looks like in the box:
The box consists of a sleeve proclaiming the new "plated" finish, the box itself, and a plastic protective liner which is further protected by a clear plastic cover.
Once out of the box I was very impressed with the painting and lettering. It is absolutely perfect. No flaws, no bleeding, no fuzziness, and best of all the "metal" plating is extremely well done. I was initially afraid from some early photos that the finish would be a too shiny like previous "chrome" finishes seen on a few model trains in the past. But all fears can be put to rest as the Walthers metal plating is some of the best I've seen on a model.
Coach Body
I mention this now before it's too late, but in all but the Lounge photos the interiors have been taken out. It's not easy taking them out or putting back in. And since I'll be painting them, I'm keeping them out for now.
The photo above shows a Superliner I Coach. The model is a very good rendition of the real thing. The trucks are extremely well done. The roof is accurate for a Superliner I without any weld seams. And although there are a few minor nitpicks I can find, they don't detract from the beautiful model. However one detail bothered me a bit. Here's a photo of the Superliner I Coach end:
I should mention that I have removed the couplers and diaphragms from the model for painting. So it might look a bit weird right off the bat. However if anyone has a good eye for Superliners you might notice something a bit off. Remember this is a Superliner I Coach and look closely at the end door. Still stumped?
Well take a look at this prototype image of a Superliner I Coach Baggage and compare it to the model. Note: The Coach Baggage and Coach have the exact same end door...actually all Superliner I's have the same end door for that matter.
Apart from the missing top safety bar, lettering, and various plugs and hoses which all can be easily added, take a close look at the pneumatic press buttons (the little black things to the left of the door). Superliner I's have the press buttons parallel to the left of the door. Supeliner II's have the top press button offset by a small box like object. The model has a door that matches a Superliner II. So this means every Walthers model has Superliner II end doors, even if it is a Superliner I. Not a big issue to most I'm sure, but it sort of is to me since a Coach will be the last car on my train and I'll see that wrong door all the time. The wrong door will also be exaggerated when I put small decals for "Coach" which will have to be off centered. And worse there is no easy way to fix it. I'd hate to do anything that might damage the beautiful metal finish.
Apart from the Superliner II door on a Superliner I model, I really couldn't find any glaring mistakes or omissions. So if you're like most modelers, the door won't be an issue. But if you're really into Amtrak, like myself, then it might bother you a bit too.
By the way, here's what the diaphragms look like after a little painting. I'm in the process of painting them to look a bit more realistic.
Coach Interior
The coach interior is very nicely done. These interiors are main reason I decided to purchase the new Walthers Superliners as opposed to the previous models. I'm so glad I waited. There doesn't appear to be anything really wrong with the Coach interior. For most cars, it appears that Walthers used original Superliner I interior layouts. So certain things that are on the real cars now, may not be in the models since the real car interiors have changed a bit over the years. I'll mention more on this in the Sleeper section.
Diner Body
The Diner I purchased is a Superliner II model. For some reason the Southwest Chief seems to have Superliner II Diners more often then not. At least that's been my experience.
The model is just as nice as the Coach reviewed above. The Superliner II trucks are very well done. And the roof is accurate for a Superliner II with visible weld seams. On this model the end doors are right on the money. Of course this makes sense since the model is a Superliner II. Another nice feature are the platform lights located next to the lower entrance doors. This is a Superliner II only feature and is nicely molded on the Walthers model.
Diner Interior
The Diner interior is nicely done. What a treat it is having full place settings at each table. The only problem I found with the interior is the upstairs galley. The partitions are not 100% accurate. However I really can't complain much because in order to make the properly curved partitions would be too much to ask for. And it was pretty simple to modify them myself. So if you look at my photo and it doesn't resemble your model, it's because I cut and filled some of the partitions.
The amazing thing about this interior is the downstairs kitchen. Without windows downstairs you'll never see this part of the interior. Yet Walthers went through the trouble to model the kitchen. No shortcuts here, nicely done.
Sleeper Body
I have both body styles of the Sleepers (Superliner I and II). As with the other body styles, the Sleepers are top notch. The Superliner II has platform lights, roof seams, correct trucks, and correct end doors. The Superliner I has the correct roof, trucks, and incorrect end doors.
The Superliner II also has the accurately modeled "blank" upstairs window where the upstairs restroom should be.
Sleeper Interior
Doesn't that photo above look great? I've traveled in many a Superliner Sleeper, I can say the Walthers interior looks very much like the real thing. Both the Superliner I and II use the same interior. However there is a slight problem in doing this, especially for any paint scheme past phase II.
As I mentioned with the Coach interior, it seems Walthers used original Superliner I plans for most of the interiors. But this becomes a problem with the Sleepers. The original cars did not have an upstairs general restroom (general meaning not in a Deluxe Bedroom). This upstairs general restroom was a later addition to the Superliner I fleet. Superliner II Sleepers came from the factory with this upstairs restroom. That's why they have the one window blanked out upstairs.
By using original Superliner I Sleeper plans the Walthers interior omits the upstairs restroom. Nothing to get excited about, but it's a bit comical to me. They went through the trouble to model a Superliner II Sleeper complete with blanked window, yet omit the reason why the window was blanked
Another thing missing is the downstairs shower. This also was a later addition added by Amtrak. So of course it does not appear on the original floor plans.
Windows in the partitions for the rooms are also missing, but like the curved partitions in the Diner would just be asking too much.
Lounge Body
This is just a beautiful car. It looks great. I like it so much let's take a closer view:
My model is a Superliner II Lounge. It, like the rest of the Superliner II's, is almost spot on in every way. The roof, end doors, and trucks are all correct. I really like the distinctive Superliner II Lounge window arrangement downstairs. Very different from a Superliner I and captured perfectly on the Walthers model.
Lounge Interior
The Lounge interior is correct for a Superliner II. I've heard that the Superliner I Lounge also has a correct interior with the downstairs "piano" lounge, complete with electric piano. It's nice Walthers went through the trouble to model 2 distinct and accurate interiors for both Lounge models. Well done.
The only issue I found with the interior are some of the seat backs are a bit too tall.
Decals
Each Superliner comes with a full set of number decals. If the model is a Superliner I, you get a sheet with Superliner I numbers. If the model is a Superliner II, you get Superliner II appropriate numbers.
Here's what the decal sheets look like (Superliner II on top, Superliner I on the bottom):
I haven't tried any of them yet since they will be the very last thing I add to the cars, but they look nice just on the sheet.
Lights
Walthers offers a one size fits all lighting kit for the new Superliners. It will work on either DC or DCC layouts.
The light board is held in place and receives power through small metal hooks on either end of the cars. It is very very tricky to get these hooks to latch onto the light board. Some cars are easier then others. The Sleepers were the toughest for me. I found using a small screwdriver or tweezers helped.
Some of the metal hooks (mainly in the Sleepers) do not hold very well and I will likely have to solder the connections to make sure they don't come loose. But once you get the lights working, man do they look nice.
Here are two photos of the lit Lounge on the layout:
I know how difficult it is to add lighting to double decked cars without removable roofs. You can check out this post where some photos of my Santa Fe Hi-Level lighting can be seen.
I'm glad Walthers decided to make a light board for the Superliners. And even though some were difficult to install, they look great. Nice LED color choice by Walthers too. Not too blue, not too yellow. Looks a lot like the prototype florescent bulbs.
Final Impression
The new Walthers Superliners are perhaps some of the finest plastic HO scale passenger cars to hit the market. Almost every aspect of the cars are spot on. The few inconsistencies I mentioned are nothing compared to some other products out there. And although some may see the MSRP as too high for passenger cars, when you get down to it, the price for a full trainset is about $200 over the price for one high end brass Superliner. Makes economical sense to me to go the Walthers route.
I truly hope these Superliners are a success for Walthers. It would be nice to see more "plated" trains in the future. And I hope to see a Transition Dorm and Heritage Baggage Car in the near future as well.
Thanks for reading the review, now go out there and get a set for yourself.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Matt - thanks for the excellent review. Do you think these are better than the bachman or kato passenger cars? You allude to that fact in the review. Thanks.
-Tom
tsasala wrote:Matt - thanks for the excellent review. Do you think these are better than the bachman or kato passenger cars? You allude to that fact in the review. Thanks.-Tom
Here are some features the Kato Superliner includes that Walthers does not:
However, Walthers does better then Kato with the following:
Very good review of a new product. I have a question about the glazing. Is it tinted or just plain like most of the Walthers products so far??
The pictures sort of look like they might have some tint, but Walthers normally use clear.
Thanks again
CZ
The windows are lightly tinted. These could have been darker like the prototypes (and the first run of Walthers Superliners) but I believe the light tint was chosen so you could see the interiors better.
The windows have a gasket per se, but I have been unable to remove the windows to paint the gaskets black. There are a few glue spots that help hold the windows in place, and it would be difficult to remove the windows without breaking things.
Very thorough article. Well done. Comments:
End Detail: Only seen on end cars, not between cars
Tail car markers: Red 3mm LED's. lit by car lighting option? or AA battery?
Southwest Chief wrote: The windows are lightly tinted. These could have been darker like the prototypes (and the first run of Walthers Superliners) but I believe the light tint was chosen so you could see the interiors better.The windows have a gasket per se, but I have been unable to remove the windows to paint the gaskets black. There are a few glue spots that help hold the windows in place, and it would be difficult to remove the windows without breaking things.
Matt
I hope you do more reviews in the future on other products since your review is above what we normally read in magazines.
The lighting kit is interesting. Did you have to drop the voltage to the kit so they would not be too bright?? This is normally a problem with lighting as they tend to be very bright.
Thanks for the reply. The gasket would be hard to paint without making a mess, but I have used draftsman tape in the past for this kind of project. It comes in all widths, and the 1/64 is about correct for the windows. The only drawback is, the time it takes to do all of the windows in the cars. The effect is great if you do the gaskets.
Will
wholeman wrote:What tools did you use to modify the dining car interior. I have the Superliner II cars and the coach's walls are not right. They are molded in front of windows on the lower floor and on the stairway upstairs.
To start the cuts, I used an Xacto knife with a sharp #11 blade and I think a #17 blade (the one used for chiseling). Then to clean and shape the cuts I used many different small files. Similar to the ones found in this set:
Micro-Mark Files
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
Nice review, enjoyed it.
I wasn't going to buy these because I already have 20 of the original ones, but when I saw them in my LHS I had to have a set. Got the II's, 2 coaches. Lighting and painted interiors coming.
This is truly one of the nicest models Walthers has made.
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
alfadawg01 wrote:The one issue that everyone is avoiding is the metal plating. The only time that Superliners (or any other model rr rolling stock & locomotive, for that matter) looked that shiny was the day they left the factory. Take a look at them today....hardly a shine you could eat off of, some quite grimy, some have the old striping and lettering showing through, etc, etc. Yes, the plating looks great, but the old finish was much more realistic.
Outstanding Review.
Comment regarding the metalized surface's reflection..................
Simple solution would be to mask off the windows and airbrush a very thin coat of semi-gloss clear. This generally dulls down metalized finishes like this, even if it already has a clear-coat protecting it.
To start experiment first and try it on the vestibule and diaphram section.
IMHO, it's just like weathering our locomotives when we buy them brand new. We whip out the airbrush and start griming the bodies up.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I'd have to disagree with the real Supers not looking as shiny as the Walthers cars. You have to see the models in person to get a feel for the shine. Photos do not show it the real way it looks, and they always appear too shiny in photos.
On my most recent trips on the Southwest Chief (about 2 months ago) the real cars were very shiny. They especially look shiny at night when lights reflect off the cars. The brightest are the cars that are in IVb now...likely most if not all of the usable cars at this point.
Of course the typical Superliner shine may not look like the brand new Superliner II lounge shown below anymore, but they certainly are not dull like unplated plastic.
electroloveI already have three Kato F40PH that I will use as the power for the Amtrak Zephyr, but what cars do I need? Can someone please tell me what cars of these new Walthers plated cars will be correct to use between 1983-84 to 1990?
I'll try my best, but I'll qualify this right away that I'm much more familiar with the Southwest Chief then the California Zephyr. In fact I have not ridden on the Zephyr since 1989. A big part of this is due to the ending of the Desert Wind, which used to be my connection to the Zephyr. But the good news for you is that I rode the train many times during the eras you're modeling (mid to late 1980s).
The biggest thing you'll have to remember is that the Zephyr during the mid to late 1980s, over the portion of the line you're modeling was a combined train of the California Zephyr, Pioneer, and Desert Wind. Which means it's longer then most Amtrak long distance trains of the period.
Quite possibly you're best resource may be this YouTube video that shows what the Zephyr looked like with the combined trainsets:
California Zephyr 1988
Study it carefully and you'll start to notice which cars go where and what style/phase paint to use.
You'll want only Superliner I cars. Superliner II's did not arrive until around 1994. Also the majority of the paint scheme would be phase III, with perhaps the old phase II coach thrown in the mix.
I'll use that Youtube video as my reference.
The first trainset shown is a nice full consist view, although a little dark. Here is what I saw:
At 1:30 of the movie there is an excellent close up full trainset view where you can make out some of the roadnumbers. Here's what I see:
So the consist seems fairly consistent. As does the paint scheme of all phase III. However remember me mentioning the occasional phase II car thrown into the mix.
If you'd like to see what a phase II car looks like in the consist, well I found one at 3:50 of the movie. It's a Superliner I Coach. The again at 3:57 (the last car in the consist) there's a Superliner I Sleeping Car in phase II.
For some variety and interesting oddities, the trainset shown starting at 4:18 has three heritage baggage cars and no material handling car. The first baggage wearing phase II. Note some are fluted and some are smooth. Also note in that same consist the Hi-Level Coach Dorm (seen at 4:27) phase III stripes do not have the arc in the stripes to match the Superliner stripe height. If you look closely at the first Superliner (a Superliner I Sleeping Car) starting around 4:28, you'll see the chemically treated toilet waste flushing out to the tracks. They don't do this anymore, even though it was chemically treated. The Lounge in that consist (at 4:32) also has faded phase II stripes.
There are a lot more things to see in that video but I think I've pointed out most of what you'll need to look for. Ok just one more oddity, I just can't help myself. At the station stop at Granby, look closely at the second Superliner in the consist (6:00). It's a Coach Baggage in phase III striping. However the lettering "Coach Baggage" on the lower level by the entrance door is still in the large phase II styling. So it's sort of a transition car between paint eras. Pretty neat catch.
Next is how to simulate what is in the movie with what is available or soon to be available in the HO market.
You already have the 3 Kato F40s (hopefully in phase III) which is a great start.
Next comes 2 Material Handling Cars (MHC). Well this is when things get tricky. Walthers used to make the perfect car and even in a 2 pack. Here's the Walther's number 932-26021. But these are out of production. Check eBay, they show up a lot. Con-Cor also make MHC, but I'm not a big fan of their cars, but some are available and they can be found here, Con-Cor MHC. Kato's cars may be your best option. Here's a link to their nice MHC's; Kato MHC.
Next comes the Heritage Baggage Car. Walthers also made the perfect car. Of course it too is out of production. But here's a product number anyway, 932-6403.
The Hi-Level Coach Dorm would have likely been the hardest to find or make, but thanks to Intermountain one will be ready to run, not sure when but it is on the list of new products. Here's a product number 85-4815. If you'd like to make your own, and decal it too, Train Station Products still offers the kits of these cars.
The Superliners are pretty easy thanks to Walthers announcement of phase III and II Superliners. For an accurate California Zephyr you'll need 3 Superliner I Sleeping Cars product number 932-16172, 2 Superliner I Coach Baggage product number 932-16152, 3 Superliner I Coach Cars product number 932-16162, 1 Superliner I Lounge product number 932-16192, and 1 Superliner I Dinning Car product number 932-16182. All can be found here, Walthers new Superliners. All the product numbers I gave are for phase III cars, but if you'd like you can use a phase II car just like some consists had in the movie.
Hope this helps, and I hope this isn't too long or complicated
UPDATE:
I found an even better quality video on YouTube of the Cal Zephyr.
YouTube California Zephyr
Not sure of the year but I want to say 1984-86 judging by the hairstyles, fashion, and Amtrak paint schemes.
Anyway the video is crisp and clear and gives you a great idea between phase II and III paint. The best footage of the consist starting at (2:07) is as follows:
Keen observers will notice the consist changes throughout the video. With the last one having a bunch of phase II cars.
Hi Matt
Have you finished the painting of the interiors?
If Yes could you show us how it looks after painting?
Thank you in advance.
Yves
Forgot to mention on my previous post. For anyone wanting to dull down the shine to a realistic notch, it's NOT a good idea to use dullcote.
Look at the photo on the previous thread page. There are 2 areas that appear to be good for experimenting on the same side of the body. These are the lower smooth body panel sections that are separated by the door.
The shells have a clear on them but the metalized effect can be slightly altered.
One can mask off the section between the door and rear truck and apply a thin gloss clear, while on the section from the door to the front truck a thin semi-gloss clear can be applied. Visually compare the results to the factory finish on the opposite side of the body or another new Superliner shell. The semi-gloss clear (acrylic or solvent based) will dull down a metalized finish considerably to give it that "been on the road a few years" look.
Hope this helps.
Haven't finished the interiors yet. Been too busy with work. I hope to have them done by Christmas though. When they are, I'll post some pics.
Thank you Matt
As I have just ordered a few coaches I am not in the hurry to see the result of your work!
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