Truck mounted couplers, pushers, and long trains....

[2-8-8-0]

Hello folks. On such a lazy sunday afternoon as this, i become aware that my hopper fleet still hasnt painted and decalled itself. So i open the box, get a few out, and (due to another thread here on the forum) start to look at the wheels...the trucks...the couplers. The cars in question are some Micro Trains rib side 33' hoppers...with the truck mounted couplers. And now, a frightening thought. I want to run 40-ish car trains up and down some pretty steep (2-3%) grades, and will be using pushers (2 mallets shoving) to get up those grades, and through the twists and turns. Are the truck mounted couplers going to create issues? The thought of body mounting all these couplers isnt too appealing...but am i gonna need to do it?

Thanks, Tim

[richg1998]

It might work if the hoppers are properly weighted to NMRA standars. Our club has done this with 46 HO cars but all body mounted couplers. A Big Boy pushing and a Big Boy pulling using DCC.

Rich 

[markpierce]

No, cars with truck-mounted couplers are bound to derail.  Pushing places a lateral force to the wheels.  Wheels not parallel to the rails look for any excuse to come off the tracks.  Heavy trains on grades with pushers combined with truck-mounted couplers is your worse-case scenario if you want to keep trains on the tracks.

Mark

[markpierce]

Mount the couplers on the car bodies.

Mark

[2-8-8-0]

No, cars with truck-mounted couplers are bound to derail.  Pushing places a lateral force to the wheels.  Wheels not parallel to the rails look for any excuse to come off the tracks.  Heavy trains on grades with pushers combined with truck-mounted couplers is your worse-case scenario if you want to keep trains on the tracks.

Mark

Yeah, thats what i was thinking....im gonna go drink a 12 oz liquid painkiller and think some about how to convert a zillion cars to body mount couplers...

 

[Flashwave]

much stages

 

[tomikawaTT]

If you're not going to be running all of those hoppers as loose cars, you could use drawbars between the cars that won't be uncoupled and only install 'live' couplers on the cars at the end of each cut.  It will ease the expense (2 screws and a piece of thick styrene are a bunch cheaper than a pair of MKDs) and the installation doesn't have to be quite as precise.

Actually, I have a lot of truck-mounted couplers - but the 'trucks' in question are of Thomas the Tank Engine's 'troublesome' variety (4-wheel freight cars.)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[twhite]

2-8-8-0--

I agree with Markpierce--those Talgo-style trucks are going to give you fits, especially if you're running pushers with them.  Pushers are an extremely tricky proposition to begin with in model railroading, and truck-mounted couplers on cars are just an invitation to 'stringling' or other disasters. 

I'm not into N-scale, but can those truck-mounted couplers just be snipped off and attached to the body, or do you have to invest in entirely new body mounts?  Just curious.  But either way, I think you're going to have a BIG project facing you if you want to have pushers. 

Frankly though, visually, I think it's going to be really WORTH it--watching that coal train grinding up the grade with the 2-8-8-0's at the rear, shoving for all they're worth.  That's REAL steam railroading in my book. 

Tom

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

I notice some fellow HO'ers are responding in this thread.  I know truckmounts are a problem in HO, because the horn-hooks usually used need side pressure and that tends to skew the trucks. But is this as much a problem with N, where you have Rapido or MT couplers, neither of which relies on side-pressure, and both of which should push in a fairly straight line?

 

[CSXDixieLine]

Thanks for posting this topic. I am planning the same type of operation and sounds like body mount couplers are a must. Jamie

[g. gage]

I agree with Mark and Tom, truck mounted couplers are asking for trouble. When I was in HO I used all body mounted Kadee couplers and operated with helper service on 2.5% grades. I also use a car forwarding system, lots of switching, all without derailment problems.

I'm now in 1:29 and am changing over to all body mounted Kadee couplers. There is nothing more frustrating than a poorly operating railroad.

Good luck

Rob 

[twhite]

Folks:

I notice some fellow HO'ers are responding in this thread.  I know truckmounts are a problem in HO, because the horn-hooks usually used need side pressure and that tends to skew the trucks. But is this as much a problem with N, where you have Rapido or MT couplers, neither of which relies on side-pressure, and both of which should push in a fairly straight line?

 

Autobus--

It's actually a problem with HO truck-mounted couplers even after you've changed out the horn-hooks to Kadees, or some other kind of knuckle-coupler.  Especially on curves--the force actually becomes a kind of side-pressure on the shafts, and can result in lifting cars right off the tracks.  I know, I had some truck-mounted Kadee re-fits on several older freight cars and when I used a pusher, those were the first cars to go.  I re-fitted them with body-mounts and eliminated the problem. 

I would imagine that the same problem would occur in ANY scale, regardless, if you're using rear-end pushers.

Tom  

 

[lvanhen]

Tim, Before you hit that 12 oz pain killer, why not put them on the layout & give it a try - only way to know for sure!!  If you're in N, you may have a better shot at it working than HO.

[fluff]

i backed  50 microtrain cars with truck mounted couplers around my 9x10 around the walls shelf. i only had one car with a low trip pin to hang  up on a switch. 20 inch curves also. so it can be done, but i took it really slow also. im sure, like everyone said, body mount would be better. of course, then you have to shim and make sure of the correct highth.

[gandydancer19]

Since you said "Micro-trains" that means N scale. I haven't run any long trains like you are talking about on my last layout (N scale), but I never had any trouble with the truck mounted MT couplers. Make sure the coupler pins don't catch on the turnouts etc.

I would leave them as is and see if you are going to have a problem. I would also leave the weight of the cars alone. If you start having problems, I would start by getting all of your cars to weigh the same. It would probably be easier to bring the light ones up to the weight of your heaviest car.

[rockymidlandrr]

Body mounted coulpers do operate a lot better than talgo style couplers.  I have both examples on my layout and body is better hands down.  Here is something else you could do in the meantime though, dont worry about helpers on the rear.  Put the helpers on the front of the train so that there is not that much force on the cars.  I have a coal train that has 25 cars in it and 20 of them are talgo style, and I dont dare push the train.  If it has to be backed up it run the power around to the other side and pull it instead of pushing it.  And my layout has several grades on it, but i keep all my power on the head end right now for every train.  Or, if you must have helpers mid train, determine how many cars a Malley can pull up your steepest grade unassisted and for example lets say its 10 cars, then when you cut the malley in on a real train, cut it in 10 cars from the end so the locomotive doesnt put any real stress on the rest of the cars cause its pulling its own weight of the train.  That works too for talgo trucks.

[dinwitty]

No, cars with truck-mounted couplers are bound to derail.  Pushing places a lateral force to the wheels.  Wheels not parallel to the rails look for any excuse to come off the tracks.  Heavy trains on grades with pushers combined with truck-mounted couplers is your worse-case scenario if you want to keep trains on the tracks.

Mark

Yeah, thats what i was thinking....im gonna go drink a 12 oz liquid painkiller and think some about how to convert a zillion cars to body mount couplers...

 

 

body mount.

I plan the same thing you are, Y6b mallets on heavy grades doing slow pulls and pushing, too much forces on the wheels. I have had too many pushing operations with horn hooks to say.. NO WAY ANYMORE TRUCK MOUNTINGS!!!

Pushing on curves will put too much side play on trucks.

I went thru the same ordeal, with body mounted rivarrosi cars, tyco body mounted, etc etc, it goes on and on, all them toy train like cars. Never again.

 

[RRTrainman]

Truck mounted coupler cars will cause a problem with a pusher set up.  I've tried it and fail at it.  Car mounted couplers are the best and weight your cars to standard.  Also make sure that your loco's are matched speed wise or your pusher will over push or under pull causing derailments on your train.