HOW TO SAVE $$ IN TOUGH TIMES LIKE THIS

[Last Chance]

Those credit card bills is the biggest whores of the money. Make them zero balance and no more payments to the card holder or bank. This way you are free from the shackles of debt.

Ever wonder why South Dakota and Delaware are big credit card company states? No rules or limits to how they can do business in those states.

They recently jacked up interest from 5 percent to 12 percent and told us that we are given the very best rate. We plan to remove the card and the account pernamently soon.

All of it zero balance. However we swipe it to buy a pack of gum once a year so they dont force-close the account due to non-activity.

During the height of our crisis years ago, we were paying a minimum of 350 per month of credit card debt. All of that is gone bye bye (That was at 7 percent back then... whew) Now we try to stick that 350 into a regular boring savings account each month unless something comes up like shop work for the cars.

Recently we drew onto those savings to pay for necessary work, we realized that we provide for our own credit line all cash to ourselves now. We dont need credit card companies anymore.

[galaxy]

The best way  TO SAVE $$ IN TOUGH TIMES LIKE THIS-

Don't spend any you don't have to!

 

[andrechapelon]

As I was standing at the kitchen sink waiting two minutes for the hot water to heat up I thought, Hmmm...One of those instant hot water heaters that mount under the sink would be a good idea. They only use energy on demand and your not wasting water waiting for it to heat up. I remember seeing them 20 years ago and thought they were a joke, but these days they make a little more sense.
Anyone have any experience with these?

Last Chance-Unfortunately, many people living in rural areas are forced to make 60 mile(or more) commutes to work because that's where the jobs are.

Will let you know. We're installing one in our lake cabin that we're remodeling. The new one is electric and it's replacing a 20 gallon electric tank heater.  When everything is hooked up and the water is back on, I'll post about how well it works. 

I first ran into demand heaters on a trip to Europe in the 80's. They seem to work pretty well and should save about 50% over the energy usage of a standard water heater.

As for commuting, not a problem for me. I'm retired.

Andre

 

Let me know how thay works out for you. I thought about a smaller one just for in the kitchen. That seems to be where most of the hot water gets wasted. Not trying to replace my tank heater, just save on the water bill.($50/month for only 2 people!!)

I knew we were in trouble when the oil companies pioneered all these new space age plastic packaging methods. Wal Mart is going back to paper milk containers. They're cheaper and they can fit more product in a single truck load. They said it should be 30-40 cents/gallon cheaper. Let's see if that savings gets passed along to the consumer or not.

They now have a way to make a biodegradable plastic from corn ethanol that's cheaper than it's oil based counterpart. (till the price of corn artificially goes through the roof too.)

We actually installed a unit smaller than the one we originally intended as our electrical service is only 100 amps. However, initial tests indicate that it will be adequate (this is a seasonal cabin, after all) for our uses. To go to a higher capacity electric unit would have required replacing our 100 amp service with at least a 200 amp unit. A gas heater would have been significantly more expensive and would have required the additional expense and trouble of venting the unit.

Because we're using the unit as a central unit rather than point-of-use, there is some lag time from long pipe runs. I'm sure there's heat loss as well. Since we have to insulate the cold water pipes to prevent condensation as our well water is only about 50 degrees, I went ahead and bought insulation for the hot water side as well to reduce any heat loss. The cold water pipes condense incredible amounts of humidity out of the air and drip onto the floor.   

This is the unit we used:

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-Powerstream-Electric-Tankless-Heater/dp/B0012QKO5M

Like I said, this is NOT designed to be a whole house unit. We're just using it that way for our small (700 sq ft) cabin. It's a very small unit measuring 12" wide x 7" high x 3 1/2" deep.

This would be a more appropriate unit as a whole house unit for a 4 season house:

http://tinyurl.com/62gpf2

Andre

 

 

[n1vets333]

I go to estate sales and yard sales weekly buying items that I could relist fopr sale on ebay and I use that money for my hobby. Some weeks are better than others but there is always a profit and I enjoy it.

[loathar]

Folks:

General tip: You can keep a relatively well-insulated house comfortable without A/C. Temperatures always drop at night, usually a lot. Put box fans in several windows. Install ceiling fans in the rooms. Now, turn the box fans on in late, late evening after sundown. All night, they will blow in cool air. In the morning, turn them off and leave them off all day. Use the ceiling fans to provide cooling breezes in the house. You will find that the house usually stays quite comfortable.



(Model railroad tips moved to other thread)

The secret to nighttime cooling with box fans is simple: place box fan(s) in window on one side of house/floor, open only one window on the opposite side of the house/floor!  This exhausts the air from the house/floor and sucks in the cool night air, rather than blowing in cool air to try to push out warmer indoor air.  I lived year-round in a 4-room summer cottage (model RR in the large back bedroom with me!) and by exhausting all night, then shutting windows during the day and circulating the inside air all day, it would remain relatively cool right up until evening--and time to do the exhaust thing again!

Couldn't agree more! Had an old 2 story house with a basement back in the good old days. No AC. I put a big attic fan in and would open two basement windows and that fan would suck all the cool basement air into the upper living space. Closing the window blinds on the sunny side of the house makes a huge difference in Summer months too.

My mom "claims" she has asthma and says she can't breath the cool night air. She runs the AC 24/7 even when it's 50 degrees out at night. Then she sits in her chair smoking two cartons of cigarettes a week complaining about the electric bill and how she can't breath!! I have a little 20" box fan in the layout building and she blames me, my box fan and my Bachmann EZ Command for the high electric bills!

[jfallon]

Discipline will go a long way. People don't think of the real costs of using the "convenience" of plastic. Paying only the minimum due on credit cards keeps you right where the banks and card companies want you. Unless something is a really good deal, don't make a habit of charging things you can't pay off at the end of the month. If you want something larger than that, save for it! Check your statements and negotiate the lowest interest rates you can. They would rather lower your rate than lose you as a customer. They make big profits by increasing your rates and adding late fees, so time your payments to get there before the due date, allowing time for mail delays. Anything you buy with cash will save you from compounding interest costs. It's time America turned this credit abuse around before the whole thing collapses in our face, see the current rash of housing foreclosures as a warning of how close we really are to danger. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

    Amen to that! All that interest you pay with credit cards is you paying the banks for having more money than you. And the less you have, the more you must pay for it. Credit card companies will offer a low "teaser" interest rate to snag you in, then use the fine print clauses to jump it up to loan shark levels. They will receive your first payment before the due date, but not open it until after that date (and they do know when that is) so they can call it late, hit you with late fees, and raise your rates. I tore up my credit cards 12 years ago and have done fine without them. I have a debit card that I use when something "requires" a credit card number.

     Take advantage of the new law that allows you to receive your credit report from each of the big three credit reporting firms, and you will be shocked at what is on it. These companies have ZERO obligation to verify the accuracy of the claims they report. Even if you have proof that the hit on your report is invalid, they "cannot" remove it until the person or company that made the claim reports it is settled.

      A whole lot of people would be better off if they paid off the cards, closed the accounts, and just put away half of what they save on interest payments into a savings account for big ticket items.

     Pardon the ranting.

                                                        John Fallon

[Dean-58]

Folks:

General tip: You can keep a relatively well-insulated house comfortable without A/C. Temperatures always drop at night, usually a lot. Put box fans in several windows. Install ceiling fans in the rooms. Now, turn the box fans on in late, late evening after sundown. All night, they will blow in cool air. In the morning, turn them off and leave them off all day. Use the ceiling fans to provide cooling breezes in the house. You will find that the house usually stays quite comfortable.



(Model railroad tips moved to other thread)

The secret to nighttime cooling with box fans is simple: place box fan(s) in window on one side of house/floor, open only one window on the opposite side of the house/floor!  This exhausts the air from the house/floor and sucks in the cool night air, rather than blowing in cool air to try to push out warmer indoor air.  I lived year-round in a 4-room summer cottage (model RR in the large back bedroom with me!) and by exhausting all night, then shutting windows during the day and circulating the inside air all day, it would remain relatively cool right up until evening--and time to do the exhaust thing again!

[loathar]

As I was standing at the kitchen sink waiting two minutes for the hot water to heat up I thought, Hmmm...One of those instant hot water heaters that mount under the sink would be a good idea. They only use energy on demand and your not wasting water waiting for it to heat up. I remember seeing them 20 years ago and thought they were a joke, but these days they make a little more sense.
Anyone have any experience with these?

Last Chance-Unfortunately, many people living in rural areas are forced to make 60 mile(or more) commutes to work because that's where the jobs are.

Will let you know. We're installing one in our lake cabin that we're remodeling. The new one is electric and it's replacing a 20 gallon electric tank heater.  When everything is hooked up and the water is back on, I'll post about how well it works. 

I first ran into demand heaters on a trip to Europe in the 80's. They seem to work pretty well and should save about 50% over the energy usage of a standard water heater.

As for commuting, not a problem for me. I'm retired.

Andre

 

Let me know how thay works out for you. I thought about a smaller one just for in the kitchen. That seems to be where most of the hot water gets wasted. Not trying to replace my tank heater, just save on the water bill.($50/month for only 2 people!!)

I knew we were in trouble when the oil companies pioneered all these new space age plastic packaging methods. Wal Mart is going back to paper milk containers. They're cheaper and they can fit more product in a single truck load. They said it should be 30-40 cents/gallon cheaper. Let's see if that savings gets passed along to the consumer or not.

They now have a way to make a biodegradable plastic from corn ethanol that's cheaper than it's oil based counterpart. (till the price of corn artificially goes through the roof too.)

[D&HRR]

Speak for yourselves....the Canadian Economy is very, very strong.

David B

I did'nt know the Loonie was doing so well. Any chance of sending some of that stability back to the Motherland?

  Just curious, how much is gasoline up there?

  I save by not going to the hobby store nearly as much.

  Come to think about it I dont even drive anymore.

[Dean-58]

Two words. Ramen Noodles! 

Tim

Look at the sodium content of those things - high blood pressure here you come!!!!

I've been on blood pressure meds for years, was diagnosed diabetic four years ago--and the blood pressure parameters are much stricter for diabetics--and have managed to keep the numbers under the diabetics' targets.  I used to eat ramen noodles for one meal a day, but I bought a jar each of bouillon (powder), chicken and beef, and threw out the flavor packets from the noodles.  The sodium count in the bouillon is lower and of a better kind--plus you can throw out the liquid after the noodles are gone!

[johncolley]

Discipline will go a long way. People don't think of the real costs of using the "convenience" of plastic. Paying only the minimum due on credit cards keeps you right where the banks and card companies want you. Unless something is a really good deal, don't make a habit of charging things you can't pay off at the end of the month. If you want something larger than that, save for it! Check your statements and negotiate the lowest interest rates you can. They would rather lower your rate than lose you as a customer. They make big profits by increasing your rates and adding late fees, so time your payments to get there before the due date, allowing time for mail delays. Anything you buy with cash will save you from compounding interest costs. It's time America turned this credit abuse around before the whole thing collapses in our face, see the current rash of housing foreclosures as a warning of how close we really are to danger. jc5729 John Colley, Port Townsend, WA

[jerryl]

As I was standing at the kitchen sink waiting two minutes for the hot water to heat up I thought, Hmmm...One of those instant hot water heaters that mount under the sink would be a good idea. They only use energy on demand and your not wasting water waiting for it to heat up. I remember seeing them 20 years ago and thought they were a joke, but these days they make a little more sense.
Anyone have any experience with these?

Last Chance-Unfortunately, many people living in rural areas are forced to make 60 mile(or more) commutes to work because that's where the jobs are.

I was also thinking of getting one of those until I heard a syndicated Home improvement show where the host didn't like them. He said that the initial cost + the short life span of them didn't add up to any savings over a standard hot water heater.

  Probably like the hybred cars. Read an article about a Ford SUV hybrid that got about 8 mpg over the one with the standard engine. Problem is that the hybrid cost $10,000 more. You would have to keep that car a L O N G tine to break even, especially if you put that $10,000 in a CD or simular instrument.

Will let you know. We're installing one in our lake cabin that we're remodeling. The new one is electric and it's replacing a 20 gallon electric tank heater.  When everything is hooked up and the water is back on, I'll post about how well it works. 

I first ran into demand heaters on a trip to Europe in the 80's. They seem to work pretty well and should save about 50% over the energy usage of a standard water heater.

As for commuting, not a problem for me. I'm retired.

Andre

 

[railroadyoshi]

Isn't the whole gig of a Roundabout to NOT have to stop and wait?

Well, that's the idea... The problem is many of the ones up here in New England have many times more traffic than they were designed for...meaning they don't work as well as they should.

Of course, it's always hilarious when an out-of-towner, particularly with a New York plate, tries to use our roundabouts. See, the thing about us New Englanders is that we DO know how to use roundabouts, we have so many. Still, come up here and try the roundabout in Concord, MA on Route 2 at 8am or 5pm. The line to enter stretches upwards of 2 miles each way through 3 preceding traffic signals. But it's historic Concord, so it can't be changed (even though the roundabout is surrounded on every side by prison land).

Back on topic, and I apologize if this has already been mentioned, but consider reducing your use of A/C. We ourselves aren't under financial pressure, but we don't like paying high bills any more than the next guy. Around here, temps have averaged in the low-mid 80s with 65-70% humidity. We find most people around us have their A/C on everyday set in the low 70s. We haven't turned on the A/C in at least 3 weeks, and even when we do, we never put it below 78. Instead, we just open the windows, often making it feel cooler than it would've felt even with A/C. The key is to open windows at multiple points across the house so that you create cross-airflow, like you'd get if you open windows on both sides of your car. Since we started stopped using A/C frequently a few years back, our electric bill for a house of around 6,000 sq ft has dropped by over 1/2. I recognize that this won't always work, particularly in very hot climates, but it is something to consider.

[Rangerover]

I've read just about every post on this thread and even the one that was locked out. The dependence on oil in the US is vital. Our ependence on it is in every aspect of our lives. The by products of oil make up nost of our hobby of model railroading, from the plactic ties on our track to the shells of our prized locomotives and our building structures, whether assembled from kits, pre built or scratch built. Most of the gears in our locomotives are nylon, the plastic coating on all the wiring, these are all by products of oil and I'm afraid will have a cost impact on the hobbyist as oil increase's in value.

You guys are very creative, the most and best information I received is just by lurking on these forums, I do a lot of searches on weathering and scratch building and in time I will be doing this. The pics I've seen are outstanding, the cars you weather look so real, every detail, you are artisits. You guys must have some cars you can weather, put on some decent trucks and wheels and couplers and sell them on an auction site or a train show and make some money to buy more of the stuff you need to work on your pikes.

I'm lucky in one aspect, I'm retired and live on a fixed income, I still drive my SUV, I need the four wheel drive and a heavy vehicle in these mountains of West Virginia and only use 1/2 tank per month. There are no hobby stores local, 60 miles away one way to my nearest. I mail order from a place in North Jersey, Model Railroad Post Office and of course eBay. I have sold almost all of my O gauge line on eBay last year and made about a thousand dolllars after all the fees.  I model in HO. 

I'm trying to cut this post short. I studied a little physcology in college. One text stands out in times like these, "Mind as Healer, Mind as Slayer". Do not get a mind set on how bad things are! Think and do positive things with your families and friends and your hobby of Model Railroading put some time aside for it on purpose. Stop listening and watching the News, nothing on there but bad. Be prudent in your spending and don't use the card, only if you can pay it off when the bill comes in. Do some community service to help the needy, volunteer some time. In short don't get depressed. All this will pass, and this great country of ours will be stronger and better for everybody. Any body my age has been through times such as these before, 1973-1975 comes to mind. Have a Happy 4th don't forget to laugh at something today.

[Trainnut484]

For my morning coffee, I warm up what is left in the pot from the day before.  Some may turn their nose up at this, but I have saved a little money by not dumping day-old coffee down the drain, especially since I am not the only coffee drinker in my house.  Besides, it really doesn't taste bad.

To each his own.  Preaching re-use old coffee from the day before seems like an example of penny wise and pound foolish.  That is pennies vs where cost savings could really be made.  At the price of gas, it's very easy to blow that extra cup of coffee in a few miles on an extra trip that didn't need to be made to the store, if you get my drive.  Personally, I hate day old coffee or coffee that has sat much more than an hour on the burner.  YUK!  Just for the record, I make one travel mug at a time so no extra coffee in a pot to go to waste.

Not entirely true.  It depends on how much coffee is consumed.  One travel mug does not cut it for me.  I can drink more than a pot a day.  Also, I am not the only coffee drinker in my home, so reusing day-old coffee does go a long way to saving monies in the long run.

I do use my pennies wisely--I glue them on the inside of my rolling stock as weights.  

Russell

[riogrande5761]

I forget, according to the industry "experts" American's dislike diesels. Yeah, they won't drive anything unconventional - like hibrids - when fuel is so expensive.

Makes you wonder about those that are in charge.

I suppose people don't like the loud rattle that even a small diesel engine can make.  My cousins diesel VW rabbit sounded like a truck and it was a real dog on hills.  But... it did get very good mileage.

I have noticed when I was visiting friends in Germany in 1997, they drove a diesel VW Passat wagon.  It did NOT rattle loud like most diesels I've heard.  It didn't sound like a gas engine but it was much quieter surprisingly and not bad at all.  They do have an edge on the technology there and we ought to pursue it.  Perhaps if more people drove diesels, the price of diesel fuel would again drop below gasoline like it used to be.  Afterall, diesel is less refined and should be cheaper to produce.

 

IMHO, generally, you can save the most $$$ on model train stuff when you focus on one railroad and model a certain time period.  Scratch building helps too, because you are only building certain structures that existed in the era or period you're modeling.  I glance back when I was younger (and single) when I bought model train stuff on impulse. 

Now, if it does not fit my road or era, I pass.

Same here.  Many have huge rosters because by ***, it's "my RR and I will buy and run what I want", on impulse.  I have limited my self to two time periods and one RR with interchange but that is still a tall order.

For my morning coffee, I warm up what is left in the pot from the day before.  Some may turn their nose up at this, but I have saved a little money by not dumping day-old coffee down the drain, especially since I am not the only coffee drinker in my house.  Besides, it really doesn't taste bad.

To each his own.  Preaching re-use old coffee from the day before seems like an example of penny wise and pound foolish.  That is pennies vs where cost savings could really be made.  At the price of gas, it's very easy to blow that extra cup of coffee in a few miles on an extra trip that didn't need to be made to the store, if you get my drive.  Personally, I hate day old coffee or coffee that has sat much more than an hour on the burner.  YUK!  Just for the record, I make one travel mug at a time so no extra coffee in a pot to go to waste.

Another tip, for those with gas furnaces, turn off the pilot light during the summer months.  A lot of money goes up in flames (no pun intended) by just keeping the pilot on during the summer.  I have saved up to $80.00 per month.

Take care,

Russell

I pretty much figured everyone cut the pilot light on their furnace for the summer anymore.  But for those who haven't had that light bulb go off, you might have given them a clue.  My parents were doing this in the 1970's in California with gas stove, furnace and range top.  We used matches to light the stove.  Most modern gas stoves have spark start so no pilot light.

[Anonymous]

Isn't the whole gig of a Roundabout to NOT have to stop and wait?

Well, that's the idea... The problem is many of the ones up here in New England have many times more traffic than they were designed for...meaning they don't work as well as they should.

[chutton01]

Actually, the Euro diesels they have are far superior to what we get in North America and they are extremely clean AFAIK.  The problem has been that the diesel fuel in North America has too high a sulfur content for them.

Hmm, this is turning into an episode of "Top Gear" (well, admittedly the whole thread has only a tenuous hold on Model Railroading).
Anyway, no, I did more research the Euro V standard still does not meet California (and several other states) emission standards - the main problems being particulates, and also NOx emissions. There are several particulate filters ideas out there, and I believe Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel is becoming the US standard (Europe has higher Sulphur standards).  That aside, one way of coping with the NOx emissions problem is urea-injection tanks (yep, that urea...a tank of p33 in your Mercedes!) - while other ideas use a catalyst to convert NOx to simple Nitrogen (78% of the atmosphere).
I'm totally cool with the modern diesels, and definitely support research into this area

[DavidH]

Actually, the Euro diesels they have are far superior to what we get in North America and they are extremely clean AFAIK.  The problem has been that the diesel fuel in North America has too high a sulfur content for them.

David

[Trainnut484]

Suspend all MRR purchases for at least 12 months.

I suspect that will save some people here significant money.   

BLASPHEMEY!!

    

Preform A Exorcism,Quick!

Oops, I must have brought too much reality into this topic. 

IMHO, generally, you can save the most $$$ on model train stuff when you focus on one railroad and model a certain time period.  Scratch building helps too, because you are only building certain structures that existed in the era or period you're modeling.  I glance back when I was younger (and single) when I bought model train stuff on impulse. 

Now, if it does not fit my road or era, I pass.

For my morning coffee, I warm up what is left in the pot from the day before.  Some may turn their nose up at this, but I have saved a little money by not dumping day-old coffee down the drain, especially since I am not the only coffee drinker in my house.  Besides, it really doesn't taste bad.

However, I won't reuse tea bags. 

Another tip, for those with gas furnaces, turn off the pilot light during the summer months.  A lot of money goes up in flames (no pun intended) by just keeping the pilot on during the summer.  I have saved up to $80.00 per month.

Take care,

Russell

[chutton01]

why all the hype about hybrids and fuel cells when conventional euro-diesel technology can do the same or better, right now, and for less money.

I believe the current crop of Euro-diesels do not meet US standards for particulate & soot emissions.

Back on topic, at least our models don't run on petroleum, unlike the prototype.

While true, our model are often made from petro-chemicals, so...

[dmitzel]

My co-worker just bought a Toyota Prius hybrid.  It gets over 50 MPG.  I think it is funny that back in the 1970's, you could buy a diesel VW Rabbit that was crude technology by comparison and get similar mileage as the latest "state of the art" Japanese hybrid car.  Kind of sad really.

Not just sad, but also it makes one wonder why all the hype about hybrids and fuel cells when conventional euro-diesel technology can do the same or better, right now, and for less money. You'd think the big manufacturers would be clambering over each other to put these powerplants into their existing pickup and SUV models in order to save them, their market share and their companies.

Chrysler, for example, could buy some Daimler diesels and keep their SUVs and trucks viable. Instead, they close plants and accept defeat against $4.00-plus-fuel prices, talking about future hybrid and other alternative powertrains... technology years away from production. Sure, lets keep bleeding and wringing our hands.

Oh, I forget, according to the industry "experts" American's dislike diesels. Yeah, they won't drive anything unconventional - like hibrids - when fuel is so expensive.

Makes you wonder about those that are in charge.

Back on topic, at least our models don't run on petroleum, unlike the prototype.

[Flashwave]

Suspend all MRR purchases for at least 12 months.

I suspect that will save some people here significant money.   

BLASPHEMEY!!

 

Preform A Exorcism,Quick!

 

Oops, I must have brought too much reality into this topic. 

REALITY?! AHHH!!!!

Isn't the whole gig of a Roundabout to NOT have to stop and wait? (Course that;s assuming some peeps know how to work the things)

[MAbruce]

Suspend all MRR purchases for at least 12 months.

I suspect that will save some people here significant money.   

BLASPHEMEY!!

 

Preform A Exorcism,Quick!

 

Oops, I must have brought too much reality into this topic. 

[riogrande5761]

Run red lights!

Red lights are the biggest waste of gasoline there is.

Oh, thats right!  Remove the red lights and lets see all the cost savings you have after a few accidents start to put a major "dent" (no pun intended) into whats left of you bank account.

Run the red lights and again, what little money you saved in gas gets totally whacked by the ticket you got from your friendly neighborhood patrolman.  Lets see, a few dollars saved, $125 out the window for a traffic ticket.  Oh yeah, that will pay nicely for the gas going into the police cars.

Oops.  Did I inject a little reality into the idea of those nasty red lights? 

Time to ditch the red lights and install roundabouts!

We got one of those at Carrier Circle in Syracuse I drive through daily on the way to work.  I wait much more time getting through that circle with no light than a normal intersection.

 

IIn terms of model railroading, I used to buy a lot of magazines. 

I used to buy them too.  Over time I found magazines less and less satisfying to read for some reason and after weeding out 3 or 4 boxes of them, I still have that many to eventually get rid of.  I haven't bought a train magazine in years now and have found the money is better spent on a few good train books.  I go to my local library now once or twice a month to get my MR and RMC fix.  Twenty minutes or so and I'm done.

[StillGrande]

BNSF agrees with the red light thing.  They encourage engineers (and dispatchers) to time their meets so that the train does not have to stop in the siding.  Takes a lot more fuel to start going again once you stop. 

Also, don't accelerate to red lights.  When you see the light in front of you is red, you don't get a prize for being the first one there. 

[Anonymous]

Run red lights!

Red lights are the biggest waste of gasoline there is.

It's not just the idling, but also the kinetic energy wasted to stop at a red light and the energy wasted getting back up to speed once the light turns green.

Time to ditch the red lights and install roundabouts!

Obligatory train stuff: Stop at RR crossings, though. Roundabouts don't work so well there. 

It may save money if you run them without getting caught, but all those tickets will add up after a while...

[StillGrande]

Now you have me thinking more.  At big box stores, shop the reverse endcaps (those away from the aisles).  That is where they put the clearance items.  Stuff is still brand new, just not being carried by the store anymore due to seasonal or other reasons.  You can pick up just about anything (including paper towels and toilet paper).  Walmarts also usually have a clearance aisle.  A lot of what is there is stuff that was on layaway that people forgot about and the stock is no longer on the floor, thus no floor space.  Also stuff that was on sale weeks before can be found there if it all did not sell and they still need to unload a larger quantity.  When I was a store employee we used to watch those endcaps.  You could really stretch a paycheck. 

[Dallas Model Works]

Run red lights!

Red lights are the biggest waste of gasoline there is.

It's not just the idling, but also the kinetic energy wasted to stop at a red light and the energy wasted getting back up to speed once the light turns green.

Time to ditch the red lights and install roundabouts!

Obligatory train stuff: Stop at RR crossings, though. Roundabouts don't work so well there.