So I started soldering my first sections of track this weekend. The excitement builds as I'm finally laying my first track.
I've read that it should take only a second or two of holding the soldering iron against the flextrack in order to melt the solder. So I did. . . nothing. 5 seconds. . . nothing. 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds. . . solder won't melt. I switch the multi-watt iron from 20 watts to 40 watts and let it heat up. 30 seconds on the track again and the 60/40 solder won't melt when I touch it to the track.
Out of curiosity (can't resist at this point, can I??) I touch the solder to the iron and it instantly liquifies into a fine mess.
I was holding the iron to the top of the rails and the solder right below it. Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?
I'm DYING to lay track and post some pictures. . . I'm so close. . . please help!
Clean the area to be soldered. Some folks use flux or soldering paste for this (not acid), I use a wire brush on a dremel. Put the soldering iron on the rail joiner against the rails. Touch the solder where the joiner meets the rails and it should melt and draw Towards the heat. 40w should be plenty. Your problem is likely dirty materials and possibly, the iron tip.
The iron also needs to be tinned. A damp sponge (or paper towel) Not soaking and dripping, but damp. Wipe the tip on the sponge and place some of the solder on the tip. Repeat a couple times until the tip is nice and shiney. Dirty materials and iron will lead to exactly the frustration you are experiencing.
Good luck.
I've been soldering my track recently in preperation for an operating session, and I found that it is almost impossible without applying rosin flux (available at RadioShack for $6.59) to the joint first. It's a lot easier, and soldering makes a huge differance in smooth operation.
Good luck!
TrainManTy wrote: I've been soldering my track recently in preperation for an operating session, and I found that it is almost impossible without applying rosin flux (available at RadioShack for $6.59) to the joint first. It's a lot easier, and soldering makes a huge differance in smooth operation. Good luck!
Yep...ya gotta have flux!
The flux not only cleans, but helps transfer heat to the material being soldered.
I use a liquid rosin flux rather than the paste. It's sold by Specialty Race Tires for slot cars.
Rotor
Jake: How often does the train go by? Elwood: So often you won't even notice ...
Soldering is easy, if you know what you are doing. Good soldering takes practice and developing a technique is required. Practice on scrap track. I use a scratch brush to clean the joint and I use rosin flux with rosin core solder. Also, use Patience. Rushing is the Best way to frustration.
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares.asp?MerchantID=RET01229&Action=Catalog&Type=Product&ID=82466A
http://www.dccwiki.com/Soldering
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
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TrainManTy wrote:I've been soldering my track recently in preperation for an operating session, and I found that it is almost impossible without applying rosin flux (available at RadioShack for $6.59) to the joint first. It's a lot easier, and soldering makes a huge differance in smooth operation. Good luck!
All the above recommendations are VERY SOUND ideas. I will also add a couple of others.
1) Only solder on the outside of the rails, never on the inside. That way, you will not get any lumps of solder forming where the wheel flanges can hit and cause possible de-railments.
2) Only use a small amount of Flux. I am in "N" Scale and I use the small end of a toothpick to smear a small amount of Flux along the top side of the rail joiner against the rail web. As soon as I put the iron against the base of the joiner, the Flux starts to melt and runs between the joiner and the rail. After 2 - 3 seconds, I touch the very fine wire solder that I use to the top of the joiner. It melts almost instantly and runs along the joint and inside between the rail and joiner. I remove the iron as soon as the solder starts to melt so I don't melt the ties. (Hint!!! make sure that your iron is HOT before you start to solder.)
If you follow the advise of the previous posters and myself, I think that you will soon be running trains on some solid track work.
Blue Flamer.
Eight steps to a perfect solder joint, guaranteed to work every time:
If you've never soldered before, it's a good idea to practice on some scrap material first.
* Yes, I know that a certain purveyor of turnout fabricating jigs swears by acid-core solder. My half-century of experience causes me to swear AT acid-core solder.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Gazoo wrote:So I started soldering my first sections of track this weekend. The excitement builds as I'm finally laying my first track. I've read that it should take only a second or two of holding the soldering iron against the flextrack in order to melt the solder. So I did. . . nothing. 5 seconds. . . nothing. 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds. . . solder won't melt. I switch the multi-watt iron from 20 watts to 40 watts and let it heat up. 30 seconds on the track again and the 60/40 solder won't melt when I touch it to the track. Out of curiosity (can't resist at this point, can I??) I touch the solder to the iron and it instantly liquifies into a fine mess. I was holding the iron to the top of the rails and the solder right below it. Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong?I'm DYING to lay track and post some pictures. . . I'm so close. . . please help!
I use a Weller D440 145/210 watt soldering gun myself. You might consider a bigger iron. Tip has to be bright and shiny, tinned with solder. If the tinning burns off exposing the underlying copper or iron tip, you have to retin the tip before it's going to work well. In bad cases I have had to file the tip down to clean metal, and flux the bejesus out of it before the tip will tin. Iron tips are particularly difficult. The molten solder on the tip makes good contact with the work and allows heat to flow more readily from the iron to the work. A burned off black dry iron takes forever to heat the work, the black crud acts as a heat insulator.
You have to use rosin paste flux. Just a little dab will do you. I use 60-40 rosin core tin lead solder, but for rail, the rosin core isn't enough you need. Rail and rail joiners often spend years on store shelves before they come to you. In that time their surfaces corrode. The flux cuts thru the surface oxide layer. The solder won't stick to oxide, it needs clean metal. Flux will get to the inside of the rail joiner, which a wire brush in a Dremel will not.
I avoid the ultra pricey lead free solders ,cause they don't melt as easily and don't wet the metal as well.
You have to get the work hot enough to melt the solder, other wise the solder won't bond to the work. Dripping melted solder onto cold work won't get you a good joint. For track, I touch the hot tip to the side of the rail joiner and touch the solder to the end of the joiner. When the rail joiner is hot enough, the solder will melt and capillary action sucks the liquid solder in between the rail joiner and the rail. With my soldering gun, it only takes the count of four to get the solder to melt. Those little 35 watt electronic irons (I have one for electronicking) will take a lot longer, minutes, to get code 100 rail hot enough to solder. The fancy temp controlled electronic soldering stations were designed to keep the heat down to avoid frying integrated circuits. That doesn't help get rail hot enough to solder.
A pair of alligator clips used as heat sinks on the rail will avoid plastic tie melting. When soldering feeder wires the alligator clips do double duty, they hold the wire and place and preserve the ties.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Some excellent advise given here. The only thing I do in addition to the above (Chuck's post) (using a trick from a gentleman who has spent his life repairing electronics) is to use a small drop of solder on the tip of the iron. The melted solder will transfer the heat very quickly to the joint. And, no, it will not cause a cold solder joint! As soon as the solder "flows", remove the heat. Often I do not add any more solder than what I have on the iron. You want a lot of heat in a very small area otherwise you end up melting ties. I use a 25w iron for most of my hobby work. It provides plenty of heat if you have your technique down. I am done in less than 2 seconds with any of the rail joints.
Practice, practice, practice!
A close up of a solder joint on a feeder, code 83 Atlas rail, 22 gauge wire.
Ray Seneca Lake, Ontario, and Western R.R. (S.L.O.&W.) in HO
We'll get there sooner or later!
Lots of great tips for soldering here. I prefer a 200 watt model which does the job on code 83 rail in about a second or so, and solder all of my track and turnouts together, cutting electrical gaps, where required, with a cut-off disk in my Dremel.
A couple of things that might have been overlooked: if, by some chance, the rail is brass, you'll need to clean it until it's shiny, then use the methods suggested. The other, admittedly unlikely, situation, is if your rail is steel - you will not be able to satisfactorily solder it together.
Wayne
doctorwayne wrote:Lots of great tips for soldering here. I prefer a 200 watt model which does the job on code 83 rail in about a second or so, and solder all of my track and turnouts together, cutting electrical gaps, where required, with a cut-off disk in my Dremel.Wayne
The larger soldering iron does have the advantage of not melting plastic ties. One might think just the opposite but when you can get in there, heat up the metal and get out as soon as possible, the heating stays local to the tip area (where the tip touches the rail). Smaller wattage irons tend to take too long sometimes, allowing the heat to radiate to other areas, and softening or even melting the plastic ties. One way to avoid this if it becomes an issue is to use a heat sink. A simple alligator clip local to the rail joint area will help keep heat from spreading to the surrounding ties. Some people lay a wet (damp) paper towel over the tie area to keep the rails cool above them as well. The heat sink Will draw heat so a larger iron may be required anyway.
Whatever you do (to the OP), blow a few rail joiners and practice practice practice. You'll be an expert in no time.
doctorwayne wrote: A couple of things that might have been overlooked: if, by some chance, the rail is brass, you'll need to clean it until it's shiny, then use the methods suggested. The other, admittedly unlikely, situation, is if your rail is steel - you will not be able to satisfactorily solder it together.Wayne
That's simply not true. Clean steel will solder just as well as clean brass, or nickle silver. Use flux, the right solder, and a good iron.
I've scratch built many slot cars from spring steel plate, steel piano wire, and brass. No issues soldering any of the material, even to dis-similar materials.
All: thank you very much, you're all so helpful. I read quite a bit before trying my first solder but apparently it didn't all stick in the ol' coconut.
I had no idea the flux was so important for brand new rail. I had assumed that it was not necessary because I have repeatedly read that I should make sure my surfaces are clean--well, I thought, you can't get more clean than "brand new". Guess I was wrong, and I can understand why based on the responses above. Flux it is. Anything that makes my life easier for under $10 is worth the cost!
I have heard advice varying from 25 watts to 350 watt mega-melters (?!). With a 40 watt model on code 83 track, will I really have to hold it against the track for an unreasonably long time if I apply flux next time?
Gazoo wrote:I have heard advice varying from 25 watts to 350 watt mega-melters (?!). With a 40 watt model on code 83 track, will I really have to hold it against the track for an unreasonably long time if I apply flux next time?
No! if you do it well, it will take around 2 seconds, or less. 40 watt should be a good choice. Try several of the techniques suggested and see which one works best for you.
I use Ungar/Weller "Stained Glass" iron, in either 45 or 50 watt. 1000 degree tip temp, with good mass in the tip. I use the integral tip heating elements, not the "modular" tip that screws on the element. The screw on tips don't have the heat transfer of the integral tips.
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103042101
http://www.cooperhandtools.com/brands/CF_Files/model_detail.cfm?upc=037103042118
You can't use a skinny little tip like you would use for circuit boards to do rail. Bigger spade or chisel tips work well for rail joints. More surface area for the tip to contact the rail with.
Try to avoid using long (or any) extension cords with a soldering iron. They seem to work hotter when you plug them straight into the socket.
I've been using TIX Solder from Micro Mark It melts at a very low temperature (for solder). Flux is required.
For me, the variable that takes me from frustration to good soldering is using a fine wire brush to clean the tip of the iron. If it's getting crusty, the heat transfer is limited. Hardware stores sell brushes that look like toothbrushes only they have wood handles and brass bristles. They cost about a buck and one will keep your soldering tip clean for a long time. BTW, I brush it clean with the iron hot.
Soldering is a skill that comes easy to some folks and others struggle with it - everyone who perseveres learns to do it well. Keep trying and you'll get it.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Along with a damp sponge, I use Radio Shack Tip Tinner / Cleaner Compound. It comes in a small container about the size of a silver dollar and has a self adhesive strip on the back. I use it frequently as I solder and it keeps the tip nice and shiny. The part number is 64/020 and last time I looked it cost around $7.00 for a container that will last years. It's well worth it.
John Timm
Johnnny_reb Once a word is spoken it can not be unspoken!
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Clean surfaces
Tinned tip
Rosin core 60/40 (or 63/37) solder only
Any iron of around 35 watts.
If it takes more than three seconds, then something has gone wrong.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
Rotorranch wrote: doctorwayne wrote: A couple of things that might have been overlooked: if, by some chance, the rail is brass, you'll need to clean it until it's shiny, then use the methods suggested. The other, admittedly unlikely, situation, is if your rail is steel - you will not be able to satisfactorily solder it together.Wayne That's simply not true. Clean steel will solder just as well as clean brass, or nickle silver. Use flux, the right solder, and a good iron.I've scratch built many slot cars from spring steel plate, steel piano wire, and brass. No issues soldering any of the material, even to dis-similar materials.Rotor
I am aware that it's possible to solder steel and/or dissimilar materials - the key word was "satisfactorily", as the amount of heat needed to get a good bond to the steel rail will likely have a detrimental effect on the plastic ties. In any case, the mass of the steel rail will not heat as quickly as it would were it nickel silver or clean brass, which might explain why the OP was having problems.
In 35 years of electronic repairs and thousands of feet of track soldering I have never used anything bigger than a 40 watt iron.
The regulated soldering stations do not in fact limit the power to the tip of the iron, quite the contrary, as you heat up the joint the tip begins to cool and the power increases to maintain a constant temperature.
The tip cleaner from Radio shack is just as important as the flux. when you start and just before soldering a joint, dip the tip in the cleaner and give it a twisting motion, then wipe the crud off with the damp sponge, then apply a little fresh solder to the tip, again wiping with the sponge, then you're ready. I also melt a bit of solder to the tip before contacting the joint and then adding a bit more as the joint begins to bubble. Soldering a track joint should take about 3 to 5 seconds. If it's taking longer, pull the heat away and check for dirt (black crud) on tip or joint or both.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
QUOTE: ''solder won't melt" (Your heat is not transferring). Are wires tinned & insulation stripped?
1. Soldering-Iron tip must be 'tinned'. 2. try 'tinning' wire , 3. use flux.
As people have informed you ... Iron must be 'tinned' and areas recieving solder need to be clean. Wire brushing is usually not necessary, but can't hurt.
I always use 'flux (resin, not acid) and two heat 'sinks' when soldering onto rail with plastic ties - like Atlas. 4. HOLD long enough for solder to flow. GOOD joints are shiny.
I prefer 20-24 gauge solid wire for multiple feeders (one per track section. It bends easily and tucks right into the web.
whoa, big feeder in that one pic, does the job but detail!! heh
You could drill a small hole in the rail for a feeder wire to go thru, and solder it to that, that may be more low wattage friendly soldering, drill thru the base only, and feed the wire thru.
The club I was in had huge feeder ground wires, and no small iron soldered to it, I got a silver solder iron. Its super hot, heats the soldering area fast. The metal spreads the heats away preventing it getting to melting temperature and prolly melting your plastic ties first. Thats why I got the silver solder iron, hot, heats the local area fast, wattage means nothing in this case, its how hot it is. Pretty fast vs regular heat irons on rail.
What makes a little more effective soldering, get solder on the rail where you want the wire to be, put some solder on the wire, then "sweat-solder" the 2 together. 3 hands not needed... 8-D
howmus wrote: Some excellent advise given here. The only thing I do in addition to the above (Chuck's post) (using a trick from a gentleman who has spent his life repairing electronics) is to use a small drop of solder on the tip of the iron. The melted solder will transfer the heat very quickly to the joint. And, no, it will not cause a cold solder joint! As soon as the solder "flows", remove the heat. Often I do not add any more solder than what I have on the iron. You want a lot of heat in a very small area otherwise you end up melting ties. I use a 25w iron for most of my hobby work. It provides plenty of heat if you have your technique down. I am done in less than 2 seconds with any of the rail joints.Practice, practice, practice! A close up of a solder joint on a feeder, code 83 Atlas rail, 22 gauge wire.
I use a small pair of toilet paper wads saturated with water as my heat sinks (learned that from a previous posting on soldering) and they work great. Soldering certainly does do a lot to improve operation. I had a few intermittant dead spots in my new yard after all the ballasting and scenery was done, and soldering cleared them up permanently. Soldering has also eliminated a number of "slow spots" in other sections (one that's annoyed me for a few years until I finally got off my butt and fixed it).
In case you get a bit too much solder on a joint, try to smooth it down and outwards from the outside of the rail, and get your fine scenic material and Elmer's out. Oh the things you can hide with Elmer's and Woodland Scenic!
WIAR wrote: howmus wrote: Some excellent advise given here. The only thing I do in addition to the above (Chuck's post) (using a trick from a gentleman who has spent his life repairing electronics) is to use a small drop of solder on the tip of the iron. The melted solder will transfer the heat very quickly to the joint. And, no, it will not cause a cold solder joint! As soon as the solder "flows", remove the heat. Often I do not add any more solder than what I have on the iron. You want a lot of heat in a very small area otherwise you end up melting ties. I use a 25w iron for most of my hobby work. It provides plenty of heat if you have your technique down. I am done in less than 2 seconds with any of the rail joints.Practice, practice, practice! A close up of a solder joint on a feeder, code 83 Atlas rail, 22 gauge wire. I use a small pair of toilet paper wads saturated with water as my heat sinks (learned that from a previous posting on soldering) and they work great. Soldering certainly does do a lot to improve operation. I had a few intermittant dead spots in my new yard after all the ballasting and scenery was done, and soldering cleared them up permanently. Soldering has also eliminated a number of "slow spots" in other sections (one that's annoyed me for a few years until I finally got off my butt and fixed it).In case you get a bit too much solder on a joint, try to smooth it down and outwards from the outside of the rail, and get your fine scenic material and Elmer's out. Oh the things you can hide with Elmer's and Woodland Scenic!
Actually there appears to be more solder and bigger wire in the photo than there really is. Probably the flash and the camera angle. Very little solder is used when I make a joint, although I do like to use a bit longer wire than I really need. Once that area is sceniced (and the rail touched up with some rust), you will not be able to see the joint without moving something that is glued dowm.......
Gazoo wrote: All: thank you very much, you're all so helpful. I read quite a bit before trying my first solder but apparently it didn't all stick in the ol' coconut. I had no idea the flux was so important for brand new rail. I had assumed that it was not necessary because I have repeatedly read that I should make sure my surfaces are clean--well, I thought, you can't get more clean than "brand new". Guess I was wrong, and I can understand why based on the responses above. Flux it is. Anything that makes my life easier for under $10 is worth the cost! I have heard advice varying from 25 watts to 350 watt mega-melters (?!). With a 40 watt model on code 83 track, will I really have to hold it against the track for an unreasonably long time if I apply flux next time?
A lot of people misinterpret the word "clean" in this context. Just because it is a "new" piece of rail to you, there's no telling how long ago it was manufactured or how many people have handled it. A few people above glossed over this, but it should be a main point for successful soldering: mechanically clean the joint. Don't expect the flux to do anything but the final cleaning for a joint. Years ago when I did a lot of PC board work, my tool box always had a typing eraser in it, the type you sharpen like a pencil. "Clean" in this context means polished to a shine, the end of the eraser will shape and get into the rail web to clean the side where you want to solder. Then, bend the wire so it presses into the web and stays there without clamipng, a drop of liquid flux (the A-West dropper bottles are great for this), a bubble of solder on the iron tip, touch it to the joint area, and faster than you read this sentence, it's done.