Steam & diesel lovers. Age correlation?

[CP5415]

Being up close to 2816, I was able to hear her simmering before the trip.
I could see the movement of the rods turning the drivers going around curves.
Hanging out on the vestibule of the passenger car, I was able to breath the intoxicating aroma of the exhaust.
With diesel, you can't see the wheels working, you don't want to hear it work, unless it's an Alco & the exhaust is the same as a Mack truck. COUGH COUGH!!!!! HACK HACK!!!!!

Steam over diesel any day for me.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

I model a modern layout but i do include steam engines in it that I use.

[CP5415]

Shawn, go look at 6069 sitting down by the waterfront!!!!
There's almost as much green as there is black!

If you like I could send you a picture of 2816. There's way more colour on her than there is black.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

im 16 and im all for steam!

[ShaunCN]

I am 15 and love diesel locos, but I have only seen steam engines run once so i have not had that kind of experiance. Also I think that most steam engines look the same as they are mostly black. Unlike diesels wich come in many colours. I respect the opinion of others who do happen to enjoy steam locomotives.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

My question to Dougal would be "have you ever SEEN a real live steam engine like UP 844 or SP4449?"

I've been on steam tourist RRs but never seen any big steam. NS and CSX both have no use for steam trips.[:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(][:(]

[AggroJones]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwieczorek

I think the age correlation is more a matter of economics than nostalgia. I am 42, have three kids, a mortgage, etc.. Diesels are generally less expensive to buy than steam. I expect as I get older and the financial burden eases, I would purchase more steam power. If I had the resources, I would definitely backdate my layout to the late 40's to run almost all steam. I think this is the main reason more younger folks run diesels and not steam. Maybe I'm off base. Whaddaya think?

I was refering to prototypes. Real steam and real diesels.

I said I model the '50s because I very much love the equipment in the '50s.

[Jetrock]

One thing I have never gotten is the suggestion, largely put forth by steam aficionados, that diesels don't make enough noise. Having been inside an E-unit while its diesels were being fired up, I'd beg to differ. Diesels may lack that groovy side-rod play and the clouds of steam, but diesel engine throb gets to me as much as a steam engine's action.

As for electrics, there's something about the electric engine's LACK of noise that I find appealing. They're still powerful, they just don't see much need to brag about it. And the sound of the compressor provides just enough high-tension backbeat to make them fit into a city environment...

[Anonymous]

Not particularly in my case. I have seen exactly ONE steam engine and I was three years old, I could only see the top of the boiler, so couldn't even say if it was an EM-1 or a Pacific, or a Mikado. I remember the sound it made was much different from the diesels, even though I was about half a mile away.

Having grown up in the early- to mid-50's, diesels were coming into their own. We'd sit for hours on my grandmother's porch and watch the B & O trains going by, E's and F's were the rule of the day.

Having said that, there is something about a steam engine, something elemental that stands out and says, I have power! Perhaps it's outmoded, it's smoky, dirty, and subject to breakdowns due to the complexity of the gear, but watching those siderods moving the drivers and seeing the smoke blast out of the stack with a load of steam just says it all for me.

I model steam (my very first Lionel locomotive was a steam) and first generation diesels. That doesn't mean I don't like the looks of an SD80MAC, though.

Good answers from all of you.

[lupo]

Hello I am LUPO, I am 49, and my son is TOMMY he is 7
and we both love:
TRAINS
I can remember steamlocomotives running freight and passengertrains from holidays we spend in Germany when I was a kid,
my son only knows steam from the museum railways, I think a steamer is much more of a spectacle to wach, you can SEE it "working" maybe that is the reason little kids prefer steam engines: they can see what the engine does to makes the wheels turn, he can mimic the movements of the rods with his arms as he runs around the "tracks", so in his mind he can BE that steamer !
The reason he loves diesels is because of the bright colors they come in and their horns;
TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT

[johncolley]

I am 66 and during my senior year in HS I oiled freights at night in Oakland, CA. I remember the mallets, northerns, and even the switchers. But my heart throbs with the first generation diesels that came in the years following graduation when I did the apprenticeship in car repair, then student firing, then they got rid of the firemen and I was out of the railroad business. While I appreciate and enjoy seeing a good model steam engine I have a stable of diesels including SW's, FT's, GP7's and E-7's.

[Anonymous]

I am like both and I am only 12. I have to say those older deisels are pretty flashey. nver been much of a person for trains beyond the 70's. Steam rocks though ![:D][:D]

[AntonioFP45]

I'm 40 and was raised well after the steam era. [:)]

Even though I model diesel, I definitly like and appreciate steamers! [tup] As a middle school student in 1978, I found several several library books printed in the 1950s that featured a lot of steam. The librarian noticed that thoughout my 9th grade year, I continuously checked out: Trains, Tracks, and Travel which was printed in the mid 50s. Lot's of detailed info and photos. She let me have the book! I still have it today! It was from reading this book that I grew to admire the NYC Hudsons, Niagaras, SP GS series, Pennsy T1s, etc.

[:D][8D][:)]My first "live" steam experience was in 1981, I was 17 years old when the Chessie 4-8-4 #614 came to Tampa on an "Operation Life Saver" run. I had joined the National Railway Historical Society or NRHS, so I got to be a "car host". This machine, a Lima Greenbrier, was an absolute thrill! I have very fond memories of the trips.

Even though I was the only black Hispanic in the Tampa Bay Chapter of the NRHS, these guys always treated me like family! I was in it for two years before school and work ate up most of my time. I'm very grateful to the NRHS for the experience. One member, Bob Warren, co-wrote the book "Seaboard Coast Line in Florida". It's an excellent book with crisp black and white photos. After nearly 15 years, it has recently been reprinted.

Railfans are Railfans regardless of background.

[^][:D][8D][8)][:)][;)][C):-)][(-D][swg][tup]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

My question to Dougal would be "have you ever SEEN a real live steam engine like UP 8444?

(just pointing somethingout) Actually, vsmith, UP 8444 is now 844 again. The number 844 was taken by a diesel. But 8444 outlived it's diesel succesor[:D][:)][;)] and now it's 844 again.

Well i get them confused at my age...[;)]

[fiatfan]

Many people have raised a number of good points in this discussion My personal preference for modeling is early diesels up to the late '60s. For train watching, I love the mammoth new diesels. I have seen both 844 and 3985 up close and personal. They are magnificent machines. On my layout, I plan to run an excursion train wilh either a Challenger, Big Boy, or one of the SP cab forwards. I may also set up an interchange so that I have an excuse to run and SD90 or an AC4400. Outrageous? Yes. But it does give me an excuse to run at least one of each of these to show the changes (notice I did not necessarily say improvements!) to one of the major forces in the developement of our nation.

I think there are so many factors involved in our choices that it would be difficult to correlate age versus motive power. Another interesting correlation might be between occupation an motive power prefernce.

Tom

[trainfan1221]

I would be a hypocrite to say the fact that I grew up with diesels didn`t sway my opinion.
Yes I do love steam, but I definitely have an attitude that you have to go by what you are going to see on the next train going by, and it ain`t gonna be steam!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

My question to Dougal would be "have you ever SEEN a real live steam engine like UP 8444?

(just pointing somethingout) Actually, vsmith, UP 8444 is now 844 again. The number 844 was taken by a diesel. But 8444 outlived it's diesel succesor[:D][:)][;)] and now it's 844 again.

[Anonymous]

I do believe age is a factor in the preference to steam over diesel. In my teenage years steam was still king in my neck of the woods so I got to see those wonderful giants upclose. In a hub station, you could walk to the end of the platform and see that big beast just hissing and moaning and groaning and you knew you were looking at raw power. Maybe even see the fireman down at the wheels oiling something. You just knew that big animal was going to get you to where you wanted to go. Sorry, diesel just does not compare.

[Fergmiester]

I'm 42 and missed steam in Canada by 3 years. To me I would take steam over diesel any day as to me it is poetry in motion, a marvel of mechanics and interesting to watch.

[Anonymous]

I'm 38 and I like Electrics and Diesels over steam, but only for modeling. Nothing bets a Steam Loco live.

[Anonymous]

I also like steam but a never see any exept for tourist RRs (I might go to Train Fest which will change that).

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I didn't have the time to reply. I am 12 (as you know), and I like diesels, but I always have room for steam. That was an exageration, and I apoligize.

[Anonymous]

I'm 17, but I prefer steam locomotives and first generation diesels (and old electrics, too) way more than anything modern. I still do like modern trains, but not nearly as much as the older ones. I certainly didn't grow up with any of them. I suppose for a lot of people what you grew up with makes a difference, but I guess I'm just different. When I say I like steam and first generation diesel, I don't just mean North American, I'm also a big fan of foreign stuff, too. I suppose I always have been a big nostalgia nut. I love all sorts of things from years back besides the trains and am a big history buff.

[Jetrock]

Okay, here's the thing:

Ask *ANY* three-year-old in the United States what sound a train makes.

Assuming they give any response, they'll all go "choo-choo!"

These are kids nowhere near old enough to remember seeing steam engines, and most of them have never seen even a preserved museum piece in person. But they all associate the sound of steam with railroads.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with physical locale--I'm not as attached to specific modes of transport as I am to trains that ran in or near places that I have lived. Thus, I like all sorts of steam, especially those SP cab-forwards and other SP steam power, and all sorts of diesel, especially the gray bloody-nose beat-up SP Geeps I saw crawling around Roseville and Sacramento, and the silver/orange WP/SN diesels I don't remember as well but definitely saw. And I like electrics, and have been fortunate to see and ride local electrics for the past seventeen years here in Sacramento.

But I'm also fond of narrow-gauge logging--like the Arcata & Mad River Railroad that ran where I went to school. And I'm fond of stuff that ran in Chicago, where I was born, and since darn near everything ran in Chicago that makes me pretty wide-open to things on the modeling front.

The line I'm modeling was electric and diesel, so that's where my modeling focus is--but I'm not above having at least a little steam as "borrowed" motive power--my line owned a MoW water-tank car to attach to borrowed motive power if they had to operate a steam locomotive.

Familiarity means a lot in this hobby--how many of us model railroad lines that ran where we live or lived? That familiarity has more of a connection than specific means of motive power.

[Anonymous]

I think the age correlation is more a matter of economics than nostalgia. I am 42, have three kids, a mortgage, etc.. Diesels are generally less expensive to buy than steam. I expect as I get older and the financial burden eases, I would purchase more steam power. If I had the resources, I would definitely backdate my layout to the late 40's to run almost all steam. I think this is the main reason more younger folks run diesels and not steam. Maybe I'm off base. Whaddaya think?

[Roadtrp]

I'm 51 years old, and I love diesels. I think a reason for this is my first love is of the passenger trains I rode when I was young, and they were all pulled by diesels. I also think a passenger consist just looks so much sleeker behind diesels.

I think a part of my preference is also attributed to the fact that boilers for some reason scare me. The first house I owned had hot water heat, with a REALLY OLD oil-fired (converted from coal) boiler. On really cold nights I was down in the basement every hour or so checking the pressure gage and adjusting the amount of water in the expansion tank to keep the pressure in the proper range. I know I spent far more time at this than was necessary, but the old beast just really gave me the willies.

So run a boiler on wheels that is 100 times as big as the one I had in my house?

No thank you!

[vsmith]

My question to Dougal would be "have you ever SEEN a real live steam engine like UP 844 or SP4449?" I ask this because it makes a very big difference in your perception of steam if its only been via the local railroad or only on the benchtop. If you've only ever seen Diesels up close but never a big steam engine I can understand why he's so pro-diesel. As he gets older and has an oppertunity to experience more steam I suspect he's opinion will change. I grew up seeing the steam engines at Knotts Berry Farm, two old K-27's brought to the park to haul a consist of older D&RG cars, I've seen both the above beasts plus Santa Fe's steamer (but not the Challenger) and it does make a palible impression when you can FEEL the heat coming from the firebox and the steam venting from the boiler. There's nothing like steam. It alive! literally, and figuratively. Video does not convey it. Its best experienced up close. Say having 844 blasting past you up Cajon Canyon.

[Eriediamond]

Snake, I aree with you and do not dispute that you find young folks interested in steam and older people interested in modern diesel. However, I will , respectfully, dispute your thoughts that age has nothing to do with an individual's interests. May I suggest you show a young person a steam loco and ask that person what they see, then show an older person that grew up with steam that same loco and ask them the same question and see what answers you get. Better yet, visit some antique tractor shows or thrasher reunions and take a look around. Sure you'll find young people there because it interests them to see the way things used to be, but the majority of us older folks are there because we lived it once and like to keep the good memories alive within us. With this said I hope I've enlightened some in the lives of us older folks and hopefully understand that age does make a difference in ones interest. We are all individuals and should model our individual interest. Best everyone, Ken

[orsonroy]

I think it really has more to do with your love of history. I'm 34, and can't stand diesels (well, first generation is OK). I grew up railfanning with my dad and his buddies around the Chicago area in the early 1970s. The entire country was dirty and run down back then, especially the railroads. There was a thin veneer of new motive power on the rails (like the SD-45), but virtually everything else was dominated by the likes of PC, Milw, Rock, and C&NW decrepitude.

I much prefered steam when we had the opportunity to see it. Yes, it was dirty too, but there was a REASON for it being dirty. It belched smoke! (diesels, on the other hand, were only dirty through neglect. A new car that's never washed looks bad very fast, for no good reason but laziness). I got hooked on steam quickly, and it's reflected in my modeling preferences (I have 100 or so steamers, but only 10 diesels).

I know a lot of modelers my age who are steam modelers. My best friend (since we were 10) models the IC circa 1939 in N scale. He owns two diesels (IC E-6 set). A friend in our Ntrak club is 12 and wants to only model steam (he's only seen it in person once). I've got two more friends in their 20's who are converting to steam, and currently model both the 1940s and today.

Looking around at train shows, I always bring lots of high quality steam models with me, and loan HO steamers to our partner HO modular group to run at shows. Not only will steam draw a bigger crowd than any diesel lashup, but it will hold them longer, giving you an opportunity to talk to them and promote the hobby. A string of diesels is nothing more than moving boxes, with little going on. The only thing that draws a crowd faster than steam is a bullet train moving at full clip, and that's an electric!

I also know a lot of older modelers (60+) who remember steam who are modeling the 1970s-1980s. That blows the whole idea of modeling what you remember from your youth out of the water too!

[Anonymous]

Snake, You and me, man!