Steam & diesel lovers. Age correlation?

[AggroJones]

Ya boy Aggro here. I noticed that our 12 year old Mark seems to dislike steam engines. Is this a matter of what you see during childhood? I would take it that many of you older gentlemen love the steam. And I'll bet several of the younger crowd prefer the "modern" and "semi-modern" diesels.

Well, do you think there is a correlation between your age and what your favorite locomotives are?

Do you think a railfans age has something to do with what they like? I'm not old enough to have seen steam locomotives in regular service. But I model the '50s and have a passion for awsome steam.

What are your thoughts?

[Anonymous]

I love steam. But also love diesels very much as well. But steam is my passion, and what built America.

[Anonymous]

How do you love an inanimate object? And its pathetic so see how emotional ppl are getting over this

[Eriediamond]

Even'in jones, I'm one of the older crowd here and grew up with steam in more ways then just railroads. Yes I model steam as I would assume some others my age do, because of my age. To be completely honest, I guess you could call it reliving the past, at least for me anyway. I think that younger modelers do prefer diesel as that is what they see and understand. They can do their thing and I'll do mine.

[Anonymous]

I love both P.S. i'm 13

[Big_Boy_4005]

There is definately something to be said for the kind of trains that you saw growing up. I'm 42, and the steam era had ended before I was born. I don't have that attachment that people just 10 years older than myself have.

I certainly wouldn't expect the yonger members to have the same feelings about steam that most of the older ones have. But that doesn't mean that anyone should fight over his opinion.

By saying that your opinion is right and the other guy's is crap, is just begging for a fight, and that is simply uncalled for. It is very easy to say things that will offend people, especially when writing like this. It is much more difficult to NOT say those kinds of things!

The truth is, for me at least, that each time I see a steam engine run, model or real, I gain a better understanding of how they work, and how the people who love them must feel.

I still don't plan to have any steam engines on my layout, but I do have a respect for them which continues to grow with every encounter. Seeing 3985 LIVE and IN PERSON, will leave a lasting impression on even the most hardcore diesel fan!!

[joseph2]

I am over 50 and like both steam and first generation Diesels.These machines come from a time when there were 50+ major railroads in North America.Now we are down to four major and four minor railroads and only two locomotive builders. Joe G.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by platypus

How do you love an inanimate object? And its pathetic so see how emotional ppl are getting over this

You make an interesting observation, but if you think about it, railroad locomotives aren't inanimate objects at all. THEY MOVE!!! Especially steam engines!

I was a member of the local club that runs 1" and 1-1/2" trains outdoors, on an 11 acre layout. The trains that run on that size track, and are fired by coal, propane, wood or oil, and boil water to run are called LIVE STEAM, and if you have ever tried to run one, you would quickly find out that they eat, breathe and even talk.

By the way, the guy who is now the president of the club always ends his messages with "Steam, its a living thing".

---

Boys, this is how you politely disagree, and make a point without trying to start World War III.[:)]

[CP5415]

When I was younger than Dougal, I prefered diesel for the fact that they were all I ever saw on the rails.
As I grew older, I read more & more about steam. The more I read about them, the more I learned to love them.
Riding behind 2816 clinched my love of steam. That was last year & I was 34 at the time.
I have an hours worth of video that I watch over & over.
Steam, there's nothing else like it!!!!

Gordon

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by platypus

How do you love an inanimate object? And its pathetic so see how emotional ppl are getting over this

You make an interesting observation, but if you think about it, railroad locomotives aren't inanimate objects at all. THEY MOVE!!! Especially steam engines!

I was a member of the local club that runs 1" and 1-1/2" trains outdoors, on an 11 acre layout. The trains that run on that size track, and are fired by coal, propane, wood or oil, and boil water to run are called LIVE STEAM, and if you have ever tried to run one, you would quickly find out that they eat, breathe and even talk.

By the way, the guy who is now the president of the club always ends his messages with "Steam, its a living thing".

---

Boys, this is how you politely disagree, and make a point without trying to start World War III.[:)]

HAHAHAHAH I dont mean this sarcastically but I do agree with you. They do move.

[Anonymous]

I think it likely there is "some" connection between what is seen in your youth and what you enjoy. However, I never saw a square rigged ship or world war one fighter and love both of these things. I have more than a passing interest in the Civil War, the Titanic and many other things. I'm 54 and can just bearly remember steam in the US. I was amazed that steam was still in us in Germany when I was there in the early 70s. I am more interested in steam engines than diesel. They have side rods, con. rods and valve gear that draw my attention! However, I find that diesels (like the prototype) generally operate better and are less maintenance. To argue one over the other is not something I'm going to spend any time doing.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CP5415

When I was younger than Dougal, I prefered diesel for the fact that they were all I ever saw on the rails.
As I grew older, I read more & more about steam. The more I read about them, the more I learned to love them.
Riding behind 2816 clinched my love of steam. That was last year & I was 34 at the time.
I have an hours worth of video that I watch over & over.
Steam, there's nothing else like it!!!!

Gordon

When I wrote the one with the photo, I was definately thinking of you Gordon.[:)]

Oh, and Platypus, we can have feelings for things that are not human. I take my trains very seriously, and actually feel about them, the way some people feel about their pets.[:)]

[Anonymous]

Being at the ripe old age of 17, I prefer diesels to steam. That doesn't mean I hate steam though.

[Anonymous]

The British Rail Southern Region was steam until I was 16. The steam was replaced with third rail electric. I only got to see a couple of diesel electrics in England and they weren't impressive. In the last 36 years in Canada I have seen almost as many trains as I could spending a morning at London Bridge Station.

[IRONROOSTER]

In my case I go with steam over diesel, although I have both (and a GG1). I grew up in the transition era (born 1947) and that's what I'm modeling. Although if there was more available in S scale, I'd seriously consider 1900-1910.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Every person is an individual. Every person has their own interests. Every individual models that which interests them. I'm not convienced that age has anything to do with what interests an individual. I've seen 10 year olds that love the steam era and 60 year olds that love modern diesels.

I'm a nostalgia enthusiast and I love steam engines, early diesels, Model "T"s & "A"s, biplanes and square rigged ships. Although square riggers are way to early for my layout [:D], I plan to model during the transition period so I can have both steam and diesel locos. I most likely will have a couple model A's and a couple model T's on the layout. I have even thought about building a couple biplanes and hang them from the ceiling on extra fine fishing line so they look like they're flying around in the background.

[Anonymous]

Snake, You and me, man!

[orsonroy]

I think it really has more to do with your love of history. I'm 34, and can't stand diesels (well, first generation is OK). I grew up railfanning with my dad and his buddies around the Chicago area in the early 1970s. The entire country was dirty and run down back then, especially the railroads. There was a thin veneer of new motive power on the rails (like the SD-45), but virtually everything else was dominated by the likes of PC, Milw, Rock, and C&NW decrepitude.

I much prefered steam when we had the opportunity to see it. Yes, it was dirty too, but there was a REASON for it being dirty. It belched smoke! (diesels, on the other hand, were only dirty through neglect. A new car that's never washed looks bad very fast, for no good reason but laziness). I got hooked on steam quickly, and it's reflected in my modeling preferences (I have 100 or so steamers, but only 10 diesels).

I know a lot of modelers my age who are steam modelers. My best friend (since we were 10) models the IC circa 1939 in N scale. He owns two diesels (IC E-6 set). A friend in our Ntrak club is 12 and wants to only model steam (he's only seen it in person once). I've got two more friends in their 20's who are converting to steam, and currently model both the 1940s and today.

Looking around at train shows, I always bring lots of high quality steam models with me, and loan HO steamers to our partner HO modular group to run at shows. Not only will steam draw a bigger crowd than any diesel lashup, but it will hold them longer, giving you an opportunity to talk to them and promote the hobby. A string of diesels is nothing more than moving boxes, with little going on. The only thing that draws a crowd faster than steam is a bullet train moving at full clip, and that's an electric!

I also know a lot of older modelers (60+) who remember steam who are modeling the 1970s-1980s. That blows the whole idea of modeling what you remember from your youth out of the water too!

[Eriediamond]

Snake, I aree with you and do not dispute that you find young folks interested in steam and older people interested in modern diesel. However, I will , respectfully, dispute your thoughts that age has nothing to do with an individual's interests. May I suggest you show a young person a steam loco and ask that person what they see, then show an older person that grew up with steam that same loco and ask them the same question and see what answers you get. Better yet, visit some antique tractor shows or thrasher reunions and take a look around. Sure you'll find young people there because it interests them to see the way things used to be, but the majority of us older folks are there because we lived it once and like to keep the good memories alive within us. With this said I hope I've enlightened some in the lives of us older folks and hopefully understand that age does make a difference in ones interest. We are all individuals and should model our individual interest. Best everyone, Ken

[vsmith]

My question to Dougal would be "have you ever SEEN a real live steam engine like UP 844 or SP4449?" I ask this because it makes a very big difference in your perception of steam if its only been via the local railroad or only on the benchtop. If you've only ever seen Diesels up close but never a big steam engine I can understand why he's so pro-diesel. As he gets older and has an oppertunity to experience more steam I suspect he's opinion will change. I grew up seeing the steam engines at Knotts Berry Farm, two old K-27's brought to the park to haul a consist of older D&RG cars, I've seen both the above beasts plus Santa Fe's steamer (but not the Challenger) and it does make a palible impression when you can FEEL the heat coming from the firebox and the steam venting from the boiler. There's nothing like steam. It alive! literally, and figuratively. Video does not convey it. Its best experienced up close. Say having 844 blasting past you up Cajon Canyon.

[Roadtrp]

I'm 51 years old, and I love diesels. I think a reason for this is my first love is of the passenger trains I rode when I was young, and they were all pulled by diesels. I also think a passenger consist just looks so much sleeker behind diesels.

I think a part of my preference is also attributed to the fact that boilers for some reason scare me. The first house I owned had hot water heat, with a REALLY OLD oil-fired (converted from coal) boiler. On really cold nights I was down in the basement every hour or so checking the pressure gage and adjusting the amount of water in the expansion tank to keep the pressure in the proper range. I know I spent far more time at this than was necessary, but the old beast just really gave me the willies.

So run a boiler on wheels that is 100 times as big as the one I had in my house?

No thank you!

[Anonymous]

I think the age correlation is more a matter of economics than nostalgia. I am 42, have three kids, a mortgage, etc.. Diesels are generally less expensive to buy than steam. I expect as I get older and the financial burden eases, I would purchase more steam power. If I had the resources, I would definitely backdate my layout to the late 40's to run almost all steam. I think this is the main reason more younger folks run diesels and not steam. Maybe I'm off base. Whaddaya think?

[Jetrock]

Okay, here's the thing:

Ask *ANY* three-year-old in the United States what sound a train makes.

Assuming they give any response, they'll all go "choo-choo!"

These are kids nowhere near old enough to remember seeing steam engines, and most of them have never seen even a preserved museum piece in person. But they all associate the sound of steam with railroads.

Personally I think it has a lot to do with physical locale--I'm not as attached to specific modes of transport as I am to trains that ran in or near places that I have lived. Thus, I like all sorts of steam, especially those SP cab-forwards and other SP steam power, and all sorts of diesel, especially the gray bloody-nose beat-up SP Geeps I saw crawling around Roseville and Sacramento, and the silver/orange WP/SN diesels I don't remember as well but definitely saw. And I like electrics, and have been fortunate to see and ride local electrics for the past seventeen years here in Sacramento.

But I'm also fond of narrow-gauge logging--like the Arcata & Mad River Railroad that ran where I went to school. And I'm fond of stuff that ran in Chicago, where I was born, and since darn near everything ran in Chicago that makes me pretty wide-open to things on the modeling front.

The line I'm modeling was electric and diesel, so that's where my modeling focus is--but I'm not above having at least a little steam as "borrowed" motive power--my line owned a MoW water-tank car to attach to borrowed motive power if they had to operate a steam locomotive.

Familiarity means a lot in this hobby--how many of us model railroad lines that ran where we live or lived? That familiarity has more of a connection than specific means of motive power.

[Anonymous]

I'm 17, but I prefer steam locomotives and first generation diesels (and old electrics, too) way more than anything modern. I still do like modern trains, but not nearly as much as the older ones. I certainly didn't grow up with any of them. I suppose for a lot of people what you grew up with makes a difference, but I guess I'm just different. When I say I like steam and first generation diesel, I don't just mean North American, I'm also a big fan of foreign stuff, too. I suppose I always have been a big nostalgia nut. I love all sorts of things from years back besides the trains and am a big history buff.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I didn't have the time to reply. I am 12 (as you know), and I like diesels, but I always have room for steam. That was an exageration, and I apoligize.

[Anonymous]

I also like steam but a never see any exept for tourist RRs (I might go to Train Fest which will change that).

[Anonymous]

I'm 38 and I like Electrics and Diesels over steam, but only for modeling. Nothing bets a Steam Loco live.

[Fergmiester]

I'm 42 and missed steam in Canada by 3 years. To me I would take steam over diesel any day as to me it is poetry in motion, a marvel of mechanics and interesting to watch.

[Anonymous]

I do believe age is a factor in the preference to steam over diesel. In my teenage years steam was still king in my neck of the woods so I got to see those wonderful giants upclose. In a hub station, you could walk to the end of the platform and see that big beast just hissing and moaning and groaning and you knew you were looking at raw power. Maybe even see the fireman down at the wheels oiling something. You just knew that big animal was going to get you to where you wanted to go. Sorry, diesel just does not compare.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

My question to Dougal would be "have you ever SEEN a real live steam engine like UP 8444?

(just pointing somethingout) Actually, vsmith, UP 8444 is now 844 again. The number 844 was taken by a diesel. But 8444 outlived it's diesel succesor[:D][:)][;)] and now it's 844 again.