"Green" Model Railroading

[Flyboy41]

With a huge shot of luck I'll be a billionaire in green industry . That aside, MRR's recent series on the Wisconsin Southern layout and the ethanol plant on their layout got me thinking. Who models green industries? I'm thinking of doing an N scale ethanol plant or recycling industry in the fall. Does anyone else model green industries or has any ideas of what to model? This could be fun to talk about.

[jecorbett]

I model 1956 which was long before global warming and other environment scares. Gasoline was plentiful and cheap and American cars burned a lot of it in a short distance. My first car was an Olds 88 that got a whopping 8 mpg. Nobody worried too much about the exhaust, either. Those were the good old days.  

[Geared Steam]

I'm converting my 2 Shays, a climax and a Baldwin to burn ethanol instead of coal.

 

 

 

[scax330]

My wife & I are planning several green industry projects for our layout.

Among our ideas:

-A mountain wind farm like you see around Palm Springs & Tehachapi

-Ethanol facilities & tank cars

-A recycling / waste disposal facility, with rail-delivered scrap & compost

-A Whole Foods grocery store

-An organic urban farm, like those appearing in Detriot

-A superfund cleanup site in progress

-Mabey even a coal gasification plant

-And, of course, lots of mass transit & commuter trains!

[Kenfolk]

Hummmmm....

My layout forest is not clearcut.

The mine is a deep mine, not mountain-top mining (although it is coal, so I guess that's really black instead of green).

If I can figure out how to do it, I might convert my motive power to solar (anyone know how to get the sun into my garage loft, other than hiring the guy on the sausage commercials--since he's got an  agent, he's out of my  price range.)

[Edit:] Oh yes, even as they are, my n-scale steam locomotives are non-polluting--there is no thick black billowing smoke when they run.

[Trynn_Allen2]

Nope nothing green about my layout.  Coke Retorts belching smoke, farms leaving feilds uncovered, forests clear cut, belching Model A's, T's, Chevy's etc.  Can't really say that green industries intrest me at all.  Course there really is very little green about the 1930's.

[Wikious]

I have two windmills built for my layout, and I'm also planning to have a recylcing plant- either cardboard or metal, I can't decide yet. I guess it's balanced out by the fact that I have a coal powerplant on my layout, too.

[Dave Vollmer]

I can only imagine where this thread is going to go...

Ethanol is green only to a point...  It's been found by several studies that, at least in the case of corn ethanol, the greenhouse gases released by the fossil fuel energy required to harvest, distill, refine, and transport it exceed the savings such that per gallon, ethanol actually contributes more of the so-called greenhouses gases (those gasses opaque to infrared radiation, i.e., carbon dioxide, methane, etc.) than a gallon of plain old oil.

The other issue is that corn ethanol grown for fuel competes with foodstocks in a big way.

Of course, corn grown in the USA is certainly more secure a fuel source than foreign oil, and puts money in the pockets of American farmers.  So, for the very short-term, ethanol has a place.

The answers will include improving technology to extract ethanol from other, more energetic crops (like sugar cane, switch grass, etc.) which provide a net reduction of greenhouse emissions and far more fuel per acre.  Also, using solar, wind, or nuclear energy to power the ethanol plants will go a long way.

Algae are actually proving to be an amazing asset.  Seems they like to eat CO2 (such as what comes from a coal-fired power plant) and convert it through waste processes into a sort of high-volatility diesel fuel.

Oh, BTW, my employer, the United State Air Force, has just successfully flown supersonic with a new hybrid blend bio fuel that is brewed right here in the US, using coal gassification and algae, yeilding a cheaper and cleaner (reduced CO2 and particulate) fuel than traditional jet fuel.  So far, there have been no performance degredations reported in any of the experiments.

As for global warming, that issue will get ugly quickly, so I won't touch it.  Suffice it to say, with 2 (nearly 3 - almost done with the PhD) degrees in meteorolgy, my opinion on the subject is what I would consider an "informed" one, and will not entertain a futile debate on the subject here in a train forum.

Anyhoo, don't forget biodiesel plants, wind farms, and windmill factories (those turbines are often shipped by rail!).

[Flyboy41]

I'm not trying to get a debate started on environmentalism. I am just curious as to the modeling opportunities. I flew over a cardboard recyling plant the other day and though "that would be a cool model and pretty easy to build." For thos of us modern era modelers, there are a bunch of new industries to model.

[Dave Vollmer]

I'm not trying to get a debate started on environmentalism. I am just curious as to the modeling opportunities. I flew over a cardboard recyling plant the other day and though "that would be a cool model and pretty easy to build." For thos of us modern era modelers, there are a bunch of new industries to model.

Agreed!  It's certainly not the usual model railroad industry...

And I like supporting green stuff.  Heck, railroading itelf is pretty green when you compare it to trucking!

Something else you can do is have the track parallel the highway and have it clogged with trucks, showing how efficient rail shipment is.

[Flyboy41]

I'm not trying to get a debate started on environmentalism. I am just curious as to the modeling opportunities. I flew over a cardboard recyling plant the other day and though "that would be a cool model and pretty easy to build." For thos of us modern era modelers, there are a bunch of new industries to model.

Agreed!  It's certainly not the usual model railroad industry...

And I like supporting green stuff.  Heck, railroading itelf is pretty green when you compare it to trucking!

Something else you can do is have the track parallel the highway and have it clogged with trucks, showing how efficient rail shipment is.

True,

And BTW Dave, my N scale pike is on a door and I must say, I'm envious of your layout. Although mine is my first one so the sequel may be better.

[Mailman56701]

  I model PRB unit coal trains.  Only thing green about them is the $ they make, which is the only "green" I worry about.

 
 

 

p.s.  who needs tv when ya got these forums

[GraniteRailroader]

Heck, railroading itelf is pretty green when you compare it to trucking!

I think the quote goes something like...

1 gallon of fuel moves 500 tons 1 mile.

 

Ooops. It said "5000" tons, not 500.

 

[Kenfolk]

...And Dave Vollmer's signature is turning...BLUE!

[Packer]

Heck, railroading itelf is pretty green when you compare it to trucking!

I think the quote goes something like...

1 gallon of (edit) fuel moves 5000 tons 1 mile.

 

How do they figure that? It don't make a whole lot of sense to me.

...And Dave Vollmer's signature is turning...BLUE!

So it begins......

[HEdward]

There is absolutely nothing green about using ethanol as a fuel!  So please do not call an ethanol plant a green industry!

Thank you.

Ed, BS Chemistry

[Anonymous]

I have a recycling plant on my layout. Wind farms would sort of be out of place though, it wasn't too popular in 1997 outside of the really windy areas such as the Tehachapi area.

That's it behind the gondola of recycled metal.

 

[csxns]

If it is going to hurt the railroad industry it is not on my layout.

[Packers#1]

I could probably work an ethanol plant into my layout, if I took out 3 indusrrial spurs. Well, I might do it if it will generate more than 6 cars of traffic.

[GraniteRailroader]

How do they figure that? It don't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Measurement?

We have a chart at work that shows what each engine model uses for fuel per hour at idle, #1, #2, all the way up to #8. The chart has two sets of data. With no load (just the locomotive) and loaded at capacity (in raw tonnage).

 

[loathar]

With a huge shot of luck I'll be a billionaire in green industry .

I didn't know Al Gore was on the forum??

The only "green" in my train world is ground foam.
I believe the CSX commercial says 500 tons/gallon/mile.(not 5000)
Glad somebody else brought up the point about the not so green ethanol...

[R. T. POTEET]

I can only imagine where this thread is going to go!

Let's see how good your imagination is!

I don't want corn in my gas tank; I want my corn on Hee-Haw or creamed and served with a stuffed pork chop.

My railroad will contribute to "green" by only running down hill and using its diesel for the sole purpose of dynamic braking.

You know, Dave, Brazil is the worlds largest grower of sugar cane and their ethanol - they have, for practical purposes, been almost gasoline-free for better than twenty years - is distilled from what is left over after pure sugar has been refined. Neither humans nor livestock eat sugar cane; such cannot be said of corn.

[Mailman56701]

With a huge shot of luck I'll be a billionaire in green industry .

I didn't know Al Gore was on the forum??

The only "green" in my train world is ground foam.
I believe the CSX commercial says 500 tons/gallon/mile.(not 5000)
Glad somebody else brought up the point about the not so green ethanol...

  Of course he is; he invented the internet after all, where else would he be ? 

[tomikawaTT]

In the Upper Kiso Valley in 1964, the 'green' thing is trees - mostly cedars.  The 762mm gauge logging line that brings them out of the forest recently converted from wood-burning steam to diesel, primarily to reduce spark emissions.

OTOH, model railroading is inherently green.  All the time I spend in the railroad room is time NOT spent driving ??? miles to places where I can watch (or get involved in) enough rail action to justify the trip.

As for ethanol, the greenest thing about it is the ripoff factor.  Here in Sin City people are paying $3.50/gallon and up for regular gasoline.  For equivalent BTUs, E85 should cost $2.25, not the 3.25 being charged locally.  (Not to mention the $$$ repair bills for people who, seduced by the apparent saving of $.25/gallon, put the stuff into cars with seals that ethanol attacks with great gusto!)

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

[Flyboy41]

Here's a shot of the cardboard recycling plant I was talking about. It's located along the CSX mainline along the Ohio River just west of Maysville, Ky. I'm thinking about modeling this when I get the chance.

 

[steemtrayn]

With a huge shot of luck I'll be a billionaire in green industry .

I didn't know Al Gore was on the forum??

The only "green" in my train world is ground foam.
I believe the CSX commercial says 500 tons/gallon/mile.(not 5000)
Glad somebody else brought up the point about the not so green ethanol...

Just to set the record straight....

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

 

  Of course he is; he invented the internet after all, where else would he be ? 

[steemtrayn]

Something else you can do is have the track parallel the highway and have it clogged with trucks, showing how efficient rail shipment is.

And make sure the passing train is all piggybacks.

[GraniteRailroader]

The only "green" in my train world is ground foam.
I believe the CSX commercial says 500 tons/gallon/mile.(not 5000)
Glad somebody else brought up the point about the not so green ethanol...

Sir, I respectfully say that was a typo. The commercial says something like 493, but 500 seemed much more "friendly"

[Mailman56701]

With a huge shot of luck I'll be a billionaire in green industry .

I didn't know Al Gore was on the forum??

The only "green" in my train world is ground foam.
I believe the CSX commercial says 500 tons/gallon/mile.(not 5000)
Glad somebody else brought up the point about the not so green ethanol...

Just to set the record straight....

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

 

  Of course he is; he invented the internet after all, where else would he be ? 

 

[wgnrr]

The thread, of what I can see, is about modeling green industries.

I always say that if there was a article that Model Railroader should do, is make a layout that is enviromentaly friendly. No toxic chemicals, using only water based oils and paints, models made in the USA, solar and/or wind powered, organic grown lichens, etc.

I think it's a really cool idea. How bout it MRR?

Phil