I'm quitting the forums

[eng22]

Dougal,

I have enjoyed your posts in the past. I will miss your knowledge of the hobby. That said I must also make the following point: In the big scheme of things, this forum means NOTHING! Life is too short to react to every bump in the road as if it was an earthquake.

Take care

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

It's time for the rivet counters and the flamers to grow up, get with the program or get out!

Hold on a second here.

How come it's okay for the kids to post totally-off topic material on the board but you'd like to exclude "rivet counters,' who post material actually associated with the hobby?

Isn't that unfair?

I really believe Fergus meant the "RIVET COUNTERS" who have no tolerance for deviation from the prototype. I think anyone whose been in a club has encounterd these folks and they can take the fun out of the hobby for everyone. Having said that, please remember this, not all rivet counters are created equal. Many are very respectful of others and utilize constructive criticism to teach rather than destroy ones confidence in their work. I don't know if you're a RIVET COUNTER or not, but you certainly sound like you would be one that would teach.[:)][:)]
As far as flamers go, if they set out to intentionally cause hard feelings by posting responses that cause problems like this, I think all would agree when I say, thats destructive and shouldn't be tolerated. This hasn't been a good day for anyone here so I say this, lets put this behind us and start tomorrow with a fresh out look, DEAL![:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emeraldisle

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

It's time for the rivet counters and the flamers to grow up, get with the program or get out!

Hold on a second here.

How come it's okay for the kids to post totally-off topic material on the board but you'd like to exclude "rivet counters,' who post material actually associated with the hobby?

Isn't that unfair?

I really believe Fergus meant the "RIVET COUNTERS" who have no tolerance for deviation from the prototype. I think anyone whose been in a club has encounterd these folks and they can take the fun out of the hobby for everyone. Having said that, please remember this, not all rivet counters are created equal. Many are very respectful of others and utilize constructive criticism to teach rather than destroy ones confidence in their work. I don't know if you're a RIVET COUNTER or not, but you certainly sound like you would be one of the latter. [:)][:)][:)]

Thanks for the clarification and yes your right I was reffering more to the myoptic ones with no or little tolerance for deviation.

I was part of a great club once, but the anal retentives ruined it. We landed spending more time on "Old Minutes and New Minutes and associated business" then talking about the craft or kibitzing and having a good time and lots of laughs. Nuts to that and nuts to "purists". There are plenty of straight forward hard core MR threads here. They will not change in number as we keep them serious and to the the point. However They will go down in number if we boot the keen and young off the forum. There is plent of room for kibitzing. Get rid of the kibitzing a lot of us will go elsewhere. The threads will go down and this will be one very boring place. Trust me.

There is plenty of room for everyone!

Normally I take take life far too seriously This is one of my escapes.

Thank you and have a good night!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

QUOTE: Originally posted by emeraldisle

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

It's time for the rivet counters and the flamers to grow up, get with the program or get out!

Hold on a second here.

How come it's okay for the kids to post totally-off topic material on the board but you'd like to exclude "rivet counters,' who post material actually associated with the hobby?

Isn't that unfair?

I really believe Fergus meant the "RIVET COUNTERS" who have no tolerance for deviation from the prototype. I think anyone whose been in a club has encounterd these folks and they can take the fun out of the hobby for everyone. Having said that, please remember this, not all rivet counters are created equal. Many are very respectful of others and utilize constructive criticism to teach rather than destroy ones confidence in their work. I don't know if you're a RIVET COUNTER or not, but you certainly sound like you would be one that would teach. [:)][:)][:)]

Thanks for the clarification and yes your right I was reffering more to the myoptic ones with no or little tolerance for deviation.

I was part of a great club once, but the anal retentives ruined it. We landed spending more time on "Old Minutes and New Minutes and associated business" then talking about the craft or kibitzing and having a good time and lots of laughs. Nuts to that and nuts to "purists". There are plenty of straight forward hard core MR threads here. They will not change in number as we keep them serious and to the the point. However They will go down in number if we boot the keen and young off the forum. There is plent of room for kibitzing. Get rid of the kibitzing a lot of us will go elsewhere. The threads will go down and this will be one very boring place. Trust me.

There is plenty of room for everyone!

Normally I take take life far too seriously This is one of my escapes.

Thank you and have a good night!

In my post about rivet counters, I mis-posted and typed latter when I really meant the former as in to teach as you see it now. Sorry bout that, It's that old attention thing you get when you pass 50[:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

QUOTE: Originally posted by emeraldisle

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

It's time for the rivet counters and the flamers to grow up, get with the program or get out!

Hold on a second here.

How come it's okay for the kids to post totally-off topic material on the board but you'd like to exclude "rivet counters,' who post material actually associated with the hobby?

Isn't that unfair?

I really believe Fergus meant the "RIVET COUNTERS" who have no tolerance for deviation from the prototype. I think anyone whose been in a club has encounterd these folks and they can take the fun out of the hobby for everyone. Having said that, please remember this, not all rivet counters are created equal. Many are very respectful of others and utilize constructive criticism to teach rather than destroy ones confidence in their work. I don't know if you're a RIVET COUNTER or not, but you certainly sound like you would be one of the latter. [:)][:)][:)]

Thanks for the clarification and yes your right I was reffering more to the myoptic ones with no or little tolerance for deviation.

I was part of a great club once, but the anal retentives ruined it. We landed spending more time on "Old Minutes and New Minutes and associated business" then talking about the craft or kibitzing and having a good time and lots of laughs. Nuts to that and nuts to "purists". There are plenty of straight forward hard core MR threads here. They will not change in number as we keep them serious and to the the point. However They will go down in number if we boot the keen and young off the forum. There is plent of room for kibitzing. Get rid of the kibitzing a lot of us will go elsewhere. The threads will go down and this will be one very boring place. Trust me.

There is plenty of room for everyone!

Normally I take take life far too seriously This is one of my escapes.

Thank you and have a good night!

Good nite...

[Anonymous]

Dougal,
Dude, we all get roughed up by people from time to time. It is part of growing up. You learn how to dis-engage when people are just laying for a fight. A couple of poorly written posts from people who have a right to disagree with you is no big deal, you did not drop it, so it continued and became personal.

I hope you read this and stick around. I for one was amazed when I learned your age just last week. You carry yourself well in most of your communication. Hang in there.

This is the typical outcome of extremism. There is room and right for everyone who is into the hobby regardless of their "center" of enthusiasm about model railroading.

I don't mind rivet counters, until they get extreme. I don't mind the youthful posts about non-hobby related stuff, because it is the connection the hobby is supposed to foster... until those posts become extreme.

Every one needs to back down a little. It is obvious this became a little hateful and very personal. I also don't think the kid needed to be reminded of his age, especially in such a manner that required a censor stamp. So, you might be older, but there were no manners or grace in that action, nor the spirit of many of the responses.

Should we being discussing this, or stars, or creating a never ending story... technically NO. But, it is the natural extension of people coming together over a common love. It is social behavior as normal.

So until the ADMINISTRATOR decides to remove NON-hobby posts... then we need to buck up and stay out of those threads we don't like.

I wrote all of this because I have had good communication with Dougal. He has been enthusiastic, inquisitive, and quite enjoyable. It is a shame that we would prefer he hang out with only "kids his age," who are not here in our world, further distancing him from the opportunity to learn our manner, respect, and interests. Put people in their own world, and it soon will not resemble our own. (Heck, he is here instead of vegging out in front of the TV, or out getting in trouble with some other hobby like painting graffitti on our beautiful rolling stock.)

Dougal, leave if you must, but don't let a couple of people decide what you are going to do or not do...

[Big_Boy_4005]

You Can't Quit Now!!!

Not after all that we've been through.[:D] I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you belong here. I have enjoyed many of the topics that you have come up with over the last couple of months. The idea of you leaving now seems strange, considering how much of my crap you managed to put up with in order to come this far. [swg]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

You Can't Quit Now!!!

Not after all that we've been through.[:D] I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you belong here. I have enjoyed many of the topics that you have come up with over the last couple of months. The idea of you leaving now seems strange, considering how much of my crap you managed to put up with in order to come this far. [swg]

[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto]

[Hawks05]

Alright, usually i'm the quiet person everywhere I go, but just seeing this thread as being 2 pages long is stupid.

I don't really care who stays or who goes or anything but please quit making different threads about this. I know there is only 2 or so but if this doesn't stop the whole first page will be filled with pointless threads about the same thing.

Dave I know you are a great guy, and although I haven't read any of this really just talked to 4884 about the jist of it, I think it would only be right if you say your sorry or something so this forum can get back to normal and start talking about model railroading and everything great about it.

Like I said before I don't care who stays or who goes, I just come here to talk and learn about MRR and I think the way some people on the boards are acting are probably turning away possible posters who would add a lot to the board. Instead they come and see people bashing each other and calling each other names, it gives the boards a bad reputation and makes everyone on here look like bad.

So please just apologize or something so we can get back to normal.

Do not flame me for saying this. I think I am speaking for the whole board when I say this.

[areibel]

Hey guys- there is a difference between an old fart and a rivet counter! I'm trying to become more of a rivet counter, not to rip on someone elses' work but to make my modeling better. I want to have Jim Six look at one of my models and say "WOW" (someday!)
But to the argument- I have sometimes thought the same as ACL fan, maybe not to the same degree. I don't have as much time every day to wade through a ton of spam posts, and I'll admit the DOC and never ending story threads are annoying. Same with the polls- usually there are several repetitive posts, the same respondents, the same complaints - see the "favorite roads" ones- either your railroad is listed and you vote, or it isn't and you complain.
BUT! Like has been mentioned- I was 13 once (actually almost 30 years ago). I was pretty much alone- didn't know other railfans or modelers. I had to go it alone for a long time, I think that's why I got discouraged and packed everything up for almost 20 years. The net has opened up the model railroading, and I really think it's helping to overcome the "graying" of the hobby. And yes, with most groups it WILL go off topic from time to time- it's the nature of the beast, so to speak. But I would have been the same at that age, and if a forum was ruled with an iron fist I would have been afraid to post. And ask any question I thought might sound stupid. I am impressed with the teens on this group in that aspect, for the most part they are trying to learn and contribute. Yeah, they get a little carried away on some things, but that'll change. Look at the slightly older group- I believe the suggestion for the scratch building contest came from one of those young 'uns, and it is a fantastic idea!
I really think that the young teens will get more serious in their posts, just as they are with their modeling. Untill then do we want to lose any? NO!
Stick around Dougal, you're alright! Even if you do like Conrail!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hawks05

I think I am speaking for the whole board when I say this.

Have you polled everyone, or how do you know this?

Look, let's see if I can summarize where I stand:

1. I don't dislike teens.
2. I never suggested they be eliminated from this board.
3. I did suggest that the off-topic posts would be better posted on other forums, since they are not related to model railroading.
4. I did also say that the huge photos and massively long "signatures" were getting in the way.
5. I did say that the pointless posts like "I don't know" answers add nothing to the discussion. if you don't know, then don't reply. Just wait and see what someone who does know says.
6. I did say that the kind posts referenced in #5 are most likely to be posted by teens trying to get a large number of posts, for whatever reason.

There are other forums on this subject on the internet, and they're well-moderated and not full of off-topic stuff. Bergie told me MR doesn't have the time to do this. That shows a lack of priority on MR's part. On the other hand, those forums--the ones with more content and less garbage--also have fewer kids posting on them. Coincidence? Maybe. or maybe just good moderators.

But the bottom line is...sure, teens have a place here. But if they would recognize that they don't have the experience as some of the 30+ year veterans, they could learn from them. That will only happen when they stop posting crap (or guesses at answers when someone asks a question) and read what their "elders" learned from experience.

As long as the goal is to create the longest thread or get the most stars, their experience here will be of limited value to them...or anyone else.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hawks05

I think I am speaking for the whole board when I say this.

Have you polled everyone, or how do you know this?

Look, let's see if I can summarize where I stand:

1. I don't dislike teens.
2. I never suggested they be eliminated from this board.
3. I did suggest that the off-topic posts would be better posted on other forums, since they are not related to model railroading.
4. I did also say that the huge photos and massively long "signatures" were getting in the way.
5. I did say that the pointless posts like "I don't know" answers add nothing to the discussion. if you don't know, then don't reply. Just wait and see what someone who does know says.
6. I did say that the kind posts referenced in #5 are most likely to be posted by teens trying to get a large number of posts, for whatever reason.

There are other forums on this subject on the internet, and they're well-moderated and not full of off-topic stuff. Bergie told me MR doesn't have the time to do this. That shows a lack of priority on MR's part. On the other hand, those forums--the ones with more content and less garbage--also have fewer kids posting on them. Coincidence? Maybe. or maybe just good moderators.

But the bottom line is...sure, teens have a place here. But if they would recognize that they don't have the experience as some of the 30+ year veterans, they could learn from them. That will only happen when they stop posting crap (or guesses at answers when someone asks a question) and read what their "elders" learned from experience.

As long as the goal is to create the longest thread or get the most stars, their experience here will be of limited value to them...or anyone else.

Psst ACL

By the way you forgot to tell dougal he misspelled "quitting".......

Just trying to help you stay in character......

[Hawks05]

i don't want to get involved, but i did put "I THINK!!!! I am speaking for everyone" notice how i put think. its just a common sense when a flame war starts that a lot of people get fed up with it and quit posting and just want it to get back to normal.

i know i have probably posted some pointless stuff, thats because i've been in the hobby for only 5 months. i have learned a lot on here and do post when i think i can add something or plug someone else who probably does know something. i know for a fact i don't have the experience a person who has been modeling for 30 years has, thats because i'm only 17 and i've only been in the hobby, like i mentioned above 5 months or so.

flame all you want. i know that a lot of people care about this and a lot don't.

i agree with you one thing though that there are a few people with extremely long sigs, mine i would not consider being long. but there are a few people who have like 2-3 posts worth of a sig.

i guess saying this will just drive up my post count so i better shut up. i'm joking. granted there are few people who just post to drive up there counts but a lot just post because they have questions, have answers, want to point people in the direction of others who have experience in certain parts of the hobby.

i'm sorry for sounding like i'm trying to act like the head of the site.

i hope someday i can be a valuable contributer to the forums but until then i'll post when i know stuff or can help someone find something.

ACL, i hope this doesn't give you a bad impression of me. i am usually not this vocal about stuff but this just i think could have been solved really easily by a simple i'm sorry.

its just that after going to quite a few boards either about MRR, music, sports, or gaming i have gotten sick and tired of pointless stuff about people bashing others views and saying they are stupid or not liking them because they like something different. its just boring and it hurts the reputation of the forums posters and the creaters of the forums.

lets just get back to talking about the "World's Greatest Hobby!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Anonymous]

This whole issue would have just been avoided if people kept off topic posts for forums that allow them.

OR Perhaps the solution is an off-topic forum just so as model railroaders can share their ideas, similar interests, and other hobbies they enjoy.

I can understand why people don't like off-topic posts when you have a seriouse question and it gets bumped down just because you silly people want to see who can post more.

As for you people knocking dougal because of his age, I think its unfair to generalize that all teens or kids as you phrased it have no respect and such. Besides respect IS earned not given to you because of your age.

[easyaces]

Dougal, Take it with a grain of salt, and shrug it off!!!! This has all just turned into a real can of worms, and everyone has thier own opinion of one thing or another. Ya got to figure that some days you can be the pigeon, and some days you're the statue!

[Hawks05]

that is a great piece of advice.

on the internet nobody knows who you really are. they just know you by screen name really. usually this is the case unless you have met people from the boards.

its almost certain that you will never meet someone you have talked with on the internet. don't take everything you hear seriously. you will get called a lot of stuff down the road in life.

just something to throw out there. say you're at school and one of your friends calls you a name do you just quit being their friend? generally not unless its really hurt you or someone close to you. i know from past experiences in baseball and other sporting activities that i've been called a lot of stuff but i don't quit because of it. i just try and prove them wrong. this sounds stupid to you probably but i have longer hair than most guys do. its not like down to the middle of my back or anything but its not short either. my name is James (Jim for short) people called me Jamie, at first i didn't like it but then i realized that one of my friends' name is Jamie. i was like alright whatever you say. also this kid that said it is an *** to everyone and their mother. you could be the president and this kid would find something wrong with you and exploit it.

don't take everything that is said about you seriously. just shrug it off and keep goign like said above.

[CP5415]

Dougal, if you leave the forums then maybe you ARE a 12 year old.
Leaving the forums will only do one thing. The fun will cease to exist.
The crusty ones will then take over the forums & the camaradarie that most of us has enjoyed risks being thrown to the side, never to be regained.
Dougal, your more of an adult than a lot of the adults I know.
Show it by sticking around.
Remember, there's miles of wires inbetween you & the people that flamed you.
If you have a problem with someone flaming you, email Bergie & ask him what can be done about it. That should solve the problem.
Remember, it's Trains magazine that runs the forums, not the people posting here.

just my [2c]

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Dont ever quit or give up the fight , you think you got it bad i can give you a couple of my friends addresss in iraq, ya their having fun dodging bullets and home made bombs so dont let some old codger get to you give it right back to him maybe some viagra jokes will shut him up.

[Anonymous]

I don't feel ready to go back YET. I was going to go back on yesterday but the person who started it posted againsed me once again.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

This is what it's all about.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12079

Very funny[V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Yeah dougal, I kind of posted a rather harsh remark over in the Help us beat FSM topic. I'm sorry if it was too harsh. Well, it's sad to see you go. I always enjoyed seeing your little AS&N trains in your sig, and hearing about your railfanning trips. I hope you drop by once in a while.

We'll miss ya,

4884bigboy

I didn't say I was gone for good.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

Come on, folks, any time anyone posts a message saying they're going to leave an internet bulletin board, they never do.

They either come right back after being told "Oh, don't go," or they change user names and come back anyway.

People who actually leave just do it. They don't announce it.

I mean it! Just because I'm posting dosn't mean I staying.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

This is what it's all about.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12079

Very funny[V]

[#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto][#ditto]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNWfan5525

QUOTE: Originally posted by dave9999

[(-D][(-D][(-D]

This is what it's all about.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12079

if anyone on here is acting childish it is you DAVE9999!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and i am with dougal

You are helping a lot. Thanks![:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Let's just all go back to RR talk.

IS THAT OK WITH EVERYONE??????!!!!!!!!!!!

You know, the real irony here is, that is exactly what some of us were saying--"Let's talk RR's, not random crap,"--and we were shouted down by people saying, "Let the kids play."

I post more about trains than the average person on here does!

[Anonymous]

Dave any strike against dougal is a strike against me

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CNWfan5525

look i am back but i have had ENOUGH OF THIS CRAP. Dave9999 will you apologize so we can get back to Model Railroading?

I'll only come back if he does.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dougal

QUOTE: Originally posted by 4884bigboy

Yeah dougal, I kind of posted a rather harsh remark over in the Help us beat FSM topic. I'm sorry if it was too harsh. Well, it's sad to see you go. I always enjoyed seeing your little AS&N trains in your sig, and hearing about your railfanning trips. I hope you drop by once in a while.

We'll miss ya,

4884bigboy

I didn't say I was gone for good.

Oh I know. I was just trying to make it more dramatic. [:D][:D][:D][:p][;)][8)][8)][:I]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ACL Fan

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fergus

It's time for the rivet counters and the flamers to grow up, get with the program or get out!

Hold on a second here.

How come it's okay for the kids to post totally-off topic material on the board but you'd like to exclude "rivet counters,' who post material actually associated with the hobby?

Isn't that unfair?

Don't get me started! I hardly if ever post off topic things![V][V][V][V][V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eng22

Dougal,

I have enjoyed your posts in the past. I will miss your knowledge of the hobby. That said I must also make the following point: In the big scheme of things, this forum means NOTHING! Life is too short to react to every bump in the road as if it was an earthquake.

Take care

Thanks!