The reality is, no matter what your age and the price of you models, we are still boys playing with toys. Ask your significant other. They will say we look cute, “playing” with our trains.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
When it comes right down to it, the question shouldn't be "How far SHOULD," but "How far WOULD--" and I really think that's up to the individual modeler.
Personally, I think it depends on each individual's approach to the hobby. Some of us like to watch trains, others like to 'operate' them. With some of us, if every detail isn't right down to the 'built' date on a particular freight car, we just shake our heads and put it back in the box, with others if that latest GE AC-whatever diesel is pulling a bunch of 40-foot ice reefers past a bunch of Ford Model A's stopped at the crossing--oh, well. It's a choice.
Personally, I model the 'forties and early 'fifties with big steam's last big show. I'm careful that the 'big steam' I run mainly represent the particular railroad I model--plus WWII 'loaners' from other railroads, and I try and check the 'built' dates on the rolling stock to make sure that nothing I purchase was built later than 1952--though I've got several automobile cars from a later date simply because I like the way they look--and if a diesel is on the layout, it's nothing later than an F-3 or a PA, because that's what I'm comfortble with esthetically. The landscape, highways, autos and buildings are kept within the period I model--of course with most buildings, that's easy, since 'period' buildings are far more common than 'modern' ones.
But that's me. However if a buddy of mine wanted to bring over his latest 2008 GE or EMD diesel whatzits, I'd just grin and tell him "Go for it. I just don't have any diesel servicing facilities." Chances are, he'd chuckle and say, "Yah, but could I use one of your Yellowstones to help my train over your Yuba Summit?"
It's all good. Whatever works for the individual.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Mine is not very prototypical, it is occurs in my house under a roof. Keeps the paint shiny and non-weathered,
although unlike the prototype I have to use a vacuum to keep the dust down.
Dan
BRAKIE wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :) I haven't seen the video, but I have been one of those guys talking on radios. One layout, 5 decks, 25' x 75', I worked had 25 trains running at once. The dispatcher, in another room, ran the trains by computer on a schematic that was three screens wide. For it to work, you have to follow the rules. But as soon as the radio shuts down, engineer and conductor start razzing each other, dissing the dispatcher, talking trash to the guy that over ran his siding and had to back-up 50 feet to avoid a major traffic jam. It's one heck of a party. On another layout, the rules are a little tighter, but there is beer and chips in the lounge for between trains. The dispatcher sits in a room 50 feet from the layout. This layout is celebrating it's 30th anniversary this month. Some people model an era and location, ops guys model the function of a railroad. Even there, there is a sliding scale of accuracy. Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language. To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :) You call like that to any of the dispatchers at the club you won't get a answer because we have no idea who's calling or the location of their train.Now if you identify yourself as train #431 we will know your location. Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?" No,no,no. Ya gotta obey the block signals..When its your turn you'll get a green block..lol!That's why we need the train number.The CTC board has white block occupancy indicators and the train order will tell us the rest because each TO is in the order we received them.Eastbound are on our left and Westbounds on our right.A very simple but,workable solution to train handling.
Mailman56701 wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :) I haven't seen the video, but I have been one of those guys talking on radios. One layout, 5 decks, 25' x 75', I worked had 25 trains running at once. The dispatcher, in another room, ran the trains by computer on a schematic that was three screens wide. For it to work, you have to follow the rules. But as soon as the radio shuts down, engineer and conductor start razzing each other, dissing the dispatcher, talking trash to the guy that over ran his siding and had to back-up 50 feet to avoid a major traffic jam. It's one heck of a party. On another layout, the rules are a little tighter, but there is beer and chips in the lounge for between trains. The dispatcher sits in a room 50 feet from the layout. This layout is celebrating it's 30th anniversary this month. Some people model an era and location, ops guys model the function of a railroad. Even there, there is a sliding scale of accuracy. Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language. To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :) You call like that to any of the dispatchers at the club you won't get a answer because we have no idea who's calling or the location of their train.Now if you identify yourself as train #431 we will know your location. Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?"
BRAKIE wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :) I haven't seen the video, but I have been one of those guys talking on radios. One layout, 5 decks, 25' x 75', I worked had 25 trains running at once. The dispatcher, in another room, ran the trains by computer on a schematic that was three screens wide. For it to work, you have to follow the rules. But as soon as the radio shuts down, engineer and conductor start razzing each other, dissing the dispatcher, talking trash to the guy that over ran his siding and had to back-up 50 feet to avoid a major traffic jam. It's one heck of a party. On another layout, the rules are a little tighter, but there is beer and chips in the lounge for between trains. The dispatcher sits in a room 50 feet from the layout. This layout is celebrating it's 30th anniversary this month. Some people model an era and location, ops guys model the function of a railroad. Even there, there is a sliding scale of accuracy. Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language. To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :) You call like that to any of the dispatchers at the club you won't get a answer because we have no idea who's calling or the location of their train.Now if you identify yourself as train #431 we will know your location.
Mailman56701 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :) I haven't seen the video, but I have been one of those guys talking on radios. One layout, 5 decks, 25' x 75', I worked had 25 trains running at once. The dispatcher, in another room, ran the trains by computer on a schematic that was three screens wide. For it to work, you have to follow the rules. But as soon as the radio shuts down, engineer and conductor start razzing each other, dissing the dispatcher, talking trash to the guy that over ran his siding and had to back-up 50 feet to avoid a major traffic jam. It's one heck of a party. On another layout, the rules are a little tighter, but there is beer and chips in the lounge for between trains. The dispatcher sits in a room 50 feet from the layout. This layout is celebrating it's 30th anniversary this month. Some people model an era and location, ops guys model the function of a railroad. Even there, there is a sliding scale of accuracy. Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language. To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :)
SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :) I haven't seen the video, but I have been one of those guys talking on radios. One layout, 5 decks, 25' x 75', I worked had 25 trains running at once. The dispatcher, in another room, ran the trains by computer on a schematic that was three screens wide. For it to work, you have to follow the rules. But as soon as the radio shuts down, engineer and conductor start razzing each other, dissing the dispatcher, talking trash to the guy that over ran his siding and had to back-up 50 feet to avoid a major traffic jam. It's one heck of a party. On another layout, the rules are a little tighter, but there is beer and chips in the lounge for between trains. The dispatcher sits in a room 50 feet from the layout. This layout is celebrating it's 30th anniversary this month. Some people model an era and location, ops guys model the function of a railroad. Even there, there is a sliding scale of accuracy.
Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :)
Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :)
I haven't seen the video, but I have been one of those guys talking on radios. One layout, 5 decks, 25' x 75', I worked had 25 trains running at once. The dispatcher, in another room, ran the trains by computer on a schematic that was three screens wide. For it to work, you have to follow the rules. But as soon as the radio shuts down, engineer and conductor start razzing each other, dissing the dispatcher, talking trash to the guy that over ran his siding and had to back-up 50 feet to avoid a major traffic jam. It's one heck of a party.
On another layout, the rules are a little tighter, but there is beer and chips in the lounge for between trains. The dispatcher sits in a room 50 feet from the layout. This layout is celebrating it's 30th anniversary this month.
Some people model an era and location, ops guys model the function of a railroad. Even there, there is a sliding scale of accuracy.
Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language.
To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :)
You call like that to any of the dispatchers at the club you won't get a answer because we have no idea who's calling or the location of their train.
Now if you identify yourself as train #431 we will know your location.
Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?"
No,no,no. Ya gotta obey the block signals..When its your turn you'll get a green block..lol!
That's why we need the train number.The CTC board has white block occupancy indicators and the train order will tell us the rest because each TO is in the order we received them.Eastbound are on our left and Westbounds on our right.A very simple but,workable solution to train handling.
Sounds like a good setup, thanks for the info. Brakie !
I would say that I do "Proto-lance" modeling. My road is CNW post 1995 (they bought UP). It gives me, IMO, enough license to be creative with certain aspects of road power, rolling stock, and operations while staying (partly at least) grounded in some aspect of prototypical equipment and operation.
That being said I'm not a "rivet counter" kind of modeler. I don't have the patience and, FWIW IMO, while the train is moving around your layout you probably can't spot every tiny little detail on it as you're ideally concentrating on watching your train, track ahead, and thinking about what you're doing next. If I was to build a "display quality" engine/car/building that would be static 99% of the time...then I'd probably try to get as prototypically close/accurate as possible.
In the end I think it's ultimately up to you. Are you happy more as an operator or do you prefer exact models?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?" The problem is that the guys that do that also tend not to follow other conventions and do things like interrupt the dispatcher when he's talking with someone else or make a move without telling the dispatcher, then calling in something like,"Hey Joe, no one was coming so I moved up three towns to Jacksonville." If you've done ops, you know what kind of trouble a guy like this can cause. And unlike what Dave says, the dispatcher usually knows the idiots by voice. Usually the "rules" are there for a reason. I know; rules per se wasn't what I thought was silly in the clip. You know you're never going to hear the end of this, right?
Mailman56701 wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?" The problem is that the guys that do that also tend not to follow other conventions and do things like interrupt the dispatcher when he's talking with someone else or make a move without telling the dispatcher, then calling in something like,"Hey Joe, no one was coming so I moved up three towns to Jacksonville." If you've done ops, you know what kind of trouble a guy like this can cause. And unlike what Dave says, the dispatcher usually knows the idiots by voice. Usually the "rules" are there for a reason. I know; rules per se wasn't what I thought was silly in the clip.
SpaceMouse wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?" The problem is that the guys that do that also tend not to follow other conventions and do things like interrupt the dispatcher when he's talking with someone else or make a move without telling the dispatcher, then calling in something like,"Hey Joe, no one was coming so I moved up three towns to Jacksonville." If you've done ops, you know what kind of trouble a guy like this can cause. And unlike what Dave says, the dispatcher usually knows the idiots by voice. Usually the "rules" are there for a reason.
Mailman56701 wrote: Ok, then how about, "Hey Joe, can I take train #431 over to location x ?"
The problem is that the guys that do that also tend not to follow other conventions and do things like interrupt the dispatcher when he's talking with someone else or make a move without telling the dispatcher, then calling in something like,
"Hey Joe, no one was coming so I moved up three towns to Jacksonville."
If you've done ops, you know what kind of trouble a guy like this can cause.
And unlike what Dave says, the dispatcher usually knows the idiots by voice.
Usually the "rules" are there for a reason.
I know; rules per se wasn't what I thought was silly in the clip.
You know you're never going to hear the end of this, right?
Just my opinion is all; not going to lose sleep over someone disagreeing with it :)
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
dehusman wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language. To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :)Every game has its rules and its language. Listen to a baseball announcer sometime, his jabber makes no sense outside of the ballpark. Would chess be the same if every piece moved the same as the queen or is part of the challenge dealing with the different capabilities of the different pieces? Shooting hoops, church league basketball, NCAA basketball and the NBA are all basketball games. Just because you only want to shoot hoops, why do you need to dis somebody who wants to play at a league or college or pro ball?Dave H.
Mailman56701 wrote: Yeah, I know. What I found amusing was these guys were talking to each other like it was life and death though; "Dispatcher xyz, train abc requesting clearance to proceed to location def, etc........." with the answer in similar language. To me, a call/answer on the radio of "Hey Joe, can I take my train over to x ?" would have been sufficient :)
Every game has its rules and its language. Listen to a baseball announcer sometime, his jabber makes no sense outside of the ballpark. Would chess be the same if every piece moved the same as the queen or is part of the challenge dealing with the different capabilities of the different pieces? Shooting hoops, church league basketball, NCAA basketball and the NBA are all basketball games. Just because you only want to shoot hoops, why do you need to dis somebody who wants to play at a league or college or pro ball?
Dave H.
Interesting examples, but not sure of their relevance. I didn't dis anyone; sorry if you feel differently.
hmmm beer and train running,
obviously rule G is being ignored, I dont care how far you prototype a model railroad, railroading and beer should never mix (unless you have a bar/ brewary) altho i geuss unless your drunk it wouldent be that bad a problem.
I'll just state the obvious. Everyone has different tolerances for how much detail or prototype realism is needed. The Model RR hobby is a continuum from total fantasy with trains almost a carcature, to those which follow details extremely closely.
For me, I started out with a general interest in my favorite RR and have since purchased lots of models and later books. I don't have a layout at present but continue to fine tune my roster of cars to at least buy models which are close to what was typical during my time period. As for engines, my goal is at least to have the major prototype details represented like nose signal lights, snow plows and a couple other major details which were signature to my RR. As for layout, certainly I want to capture the look of the scenery and area's but probably won't get into modeling buildings from photographs etc.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
lvanhen wrote: shayfan84325 wrote: I think of the spectrum of model railroaders as running from absolute prototype modelers all the way to those who create fantasy worlds with trains. What's in between is the vast gray area where most of us reside. I am closer to the fantasy end than the prototype end, but I respect you all. My imagination only goes so far in the fantasy realm, but you guys make some really fun stuff. I tried being a prototype modeler, but it seemed too limiting (my imagination needs room to do plausible modeling), but I respect you like I respect automobile restorers (I'm a hot rod guy, myself). It's HARD to be that disciplined.Many years ago, when Dungeons & Dragons was in "vogue", I thought about creating a primitive type steam loco that could have transported the Knights in Shining Armor, as well as the witches & goblins!! Still think it would be kind of neat!!
shayfan84325 wrote: I think of the spectrum of model railroaders as running from absolute prototype modelers all the way to those who create fantasy worlds with trains. What's in between is the vast gray area where most of us reside. I am closer to the fantasy end than the prototype end, but I respect you all. My imagination only goes so far in the fantasy realm, but you guys make some really fun stuff. I tried being a prototype modeler, but it seemed too limiting (my imagination needs room to do plausible modeling), but I respect you like I respect automobile restorers (I'm a hot rod guy, myself). It's HARD to be that disciplined.
I think of the spectrum of model railroaders as running from absolute prototype modelers all the way to those who create fantasy worlds with trains. What's in between is the vast gray area where most of us reside. I am closer to the fantasy end than the prototype end, but I respect you all. My imagination only goes so far in the fantasy realm, but you guys make some really fun stuff. I tried being a prototype modeler, but it seemed too limiting (my imagination needs room to do plausible modeling), but I respect you like I respect automobile restorers (I'm a hot rod guy, myself). It's HARD to be that disciplined.
Many years ago, when Dungeons & Dragons was in "vogue", I thought about creating a primitive type steam loco that could have transported the Knights in Shining Armor, as well as the witches & goblins!! Still think it would be kind of neat!!
That would be cool.
I think about one that would be set in an architectural mixture of the Shire (Lord of the Rings), Mayberry, and Whoville (Dr. Seuss), and set in 1932 (a little gritty).
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I've been hosting ops sessions for about a year now. About once a quarter, actually (just had the fourth one a couple weeks ago.)
We definitely tend more to the beer and pretzels approach. Over the four sessions, I have been able to refine the operations aspect to help things run smoothly, and we ran a pretty healthy volume of traffic last time, about 20 train movements.
As the crew becomes more familiar with the layout, with place names, the location of the various turnout controls, industry names and locations, and the jobs each train has, I'll be able to add deeper levels of complexity to keep it from getting too mundane. So far, we're operating solely with a sequence list for dispatching, and random switch lists for the locals. As we get more familiar, I'll add individual car cards and waybills, and perhaps remote dispatching.
I usually serve as the dispatcher, since I obviously have the most familiarity with it, but I prefer to hang out by my tower board and watch the trains run than sit in a cubicle in another room. One day it may come to that, but I'm hoping when it does I can keep the dispatch panel in the same room with the trains. I don't want it to get to the point where I HAVE to have a crew to run trains.
And there will always be beer and pretzels...
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
One thing I love about this hobby is how we each get to do it our own way. What I hope for is that we'll all learn to respect each others approach, because we all contribute to the collective good of model railroading: The prototype folks keep manufacturers from taking too many liberties with the look, size, and shape of their products, and I think the fantasy folks help to attract new folks into the hobby because they keep its fun side out there to see.
So, in reference to the OP, I'm with the crowd - to each his own. If it isn't fun for you, you're doing it wrong.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Milepost 266.2 wrote: Mailman56701 wrote: Each his own of course, but I recall on one of the DPB videos, two grown men talking on radios to each other, in serious tones, terms, etc., while operating the layout, and I thought it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen :) I know exactly which section of the video you're talking about, and I think the real problem is they are trying to be "serious" for the camera, so they come off as very stiff and unnatural. It's nothing new. Kalmbach employees have been perfecting the "deer in the headlights" method of acting since the very first videos they produced back in the 1980's.
I know exactly which section of the video you're talking about, and I think the real problem is they are trying to be "serious" for the camera, so they come off as very stiff and unnatural. It's nothing new. Kalmbach employees have been perfecting the "deer in the headlights" method of acting since the very first videos they produced back in the 1980's.
You know, I think you're right, having put it that way.
There's a very simple standard to measure how far is too far in prototype modeling:
If someone goes to more effort than you would in accurately modeling something, they are an obsessive jerk with no life who doesn't see the "big picture".
If someone does not measure up to your prototypical standards for detail or operation, they are a simpleton who isn't taking the hobby "seriously" enough.