I am modeling a fictional branch of the EJ&E railroad set in 2008. I know nothing about steam engines other than how steam propulsion works, that they were big, heavy, dirty, technological marvels, and an awesome feat of engineering for their time.
I want to put a steam engine on my layout as an excursion train. What locos are available that would have been seen in 1902? I am looking for an 0-8-0, a 4-8-4 or something like that (you know... something in the 200,000lb or larger range with lotsa wheels, neet rods, levers, and pipes N stuff that will run well and can be converted to DCC).
An articulated would be really cool too, but probably out of range price wise.
Wikipedia is your friend....
http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/blwmal00.Html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_locomotive
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whyte_notation
Bdewoody wrote:Why 1902 if you are modeling 2008?
This may sound dumb, but I bought a Central Valley 150 foot truss bridge kit for my layout. It has "1902" as the date of construction at both ends of the bridge. So 1902 is the year that the story for my fictional model railroad begins. I figured I want to have a steam engine on the layout and need to fit it into the picture as like "one of the first locos on the railroad now preserved and run on excursions" yada, yada.
However I really like the Northerns and just might go that route instead. Would love to have a DM&IR M-3 Yellowstone, but I have not seen one of those in HO scale.
my05hammer wrote: Bdewoody wrote:Why 1902 if you are modeling 2008? This may sound dumb, but I bought a Central Valley 150 foot truss bridge kit for my layout. It has "1902" as the date of construction at both ends of the bridge. So 1902 is the year that the story for my fictional model railroad begins. I figured I want to have a steam engine on the layout and need to fit it into the picture as like "one of the first locos on the railroad now preserved and run on excursions" yada, yada. However I really like the Northerns and just might go that route instead. Would love to have a DM&IR M-3 Yellowstone, but I have not seen one of those in HO scale.
Go with the 4-8-4. You won't regret it...
Tracklayer
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
Well a lot of people would like a moderately priced Yellowstone !! Unfortunately the manufacturers would rather all make models of the same UP mallets and compete against each other.
Trailing trucks were just coming into use in 1902, a few railroads might have a 4-6-2 or 2-8-2 but they would be pretty rare, it was a few years later that they really caught on. 4-wheel trailing trucks didn't come along until the "Superpower Era" of the late 1920's. A 4-6-0 like the Spectrum one might work, although in 1902 it would have had Stephenson valve gear (i.e. it wouldn't have all the "monkey motion" siderods going on.) Still, you could say the engine was built in 1902 and modernized in the thirties, and was restored to c.1935 appearance.
However, most c.1902 engines are going to be pretty small and not able to pull too much, so wouldn't be a good choice for excursion train service. As a free-lancer myself, I rely on USRA engines (designed by the US Railroad Administration during World War I). Many railroads bought these or copies of these designs from 1919 all the way to the end of steam, and it's generic design works better on a free-lance road. I'd look at the Spectrum light 4-8-2; nicely detailed and smooth running. I haven't tried the heavy yet, but it's supposed to be good and heavy (metal boiler). It's available with sound installed too. Otherwise a BLI USRA 2-8-2 or 4-6-2 (are those out yet or not?) wouldn't be bad either.
Generally just stay away from "railroad specific" engines - a NYC Hudson, or a N&W "J" 4-8-4, or UP 4-8-4 lettered for a free-lance road won't look very authentic.
I would rather doubt that the EJ&E would have huge, high speed road engines like Northerns or Yellowstones since they more of a transfer/terminal road. They would be more likely to have 0-8-0's, 2-8-0's, 2-10-0's, or 2-10-2's than a Northern. Engines that could pull a whole lot of tonnage at a slow speed. Another tack would be to take a cue from the Clinchfiled and use a smaller, older locomotive, such as a Bachmann high driver 4-6-0 and then mate it with a F7b unit. The Clinchfield did that to pull their excursion trains. The 4-6-0 provides smoke and noise, the F7b pulls the train. 8-)
But you can buy any engine you want, it is your layout.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Yup the "J" had 0-8-0's, but in my story line the fictitious "Anchor Valley Central" would have been the railroad that owned the steam Locomotive. AVC was bought out by EJ&E in 1999. Or so my story goes. So I will have a mix of AVC equipment and EJ&E stuff.
I am looking at the Broadway Limited USRA 2-8-2 Heavy Unlettered. (Still want a Northern too... it can be passing through!)
Well you can have a northern, it's just there weren't any northerns in 1902!! Your RR certainly could have had 4-8-4's, but not until around 1930.
It's not unusual for restored engines to be used outside of their normal areas now in excursion service. Milwaukee 261 has gone to many different states - unfortunately there is no model of it available (hint hint manufacturers) but 261's Milwaukee-painted passenger cars are used by other organizations for fan trips. A few years ago I went on a trip over Erie Mining RR's line in 261's cars, pulled by an Erie Mining F9, a DMIR SD-18 and a Soo FP-7. You could do a decent rendition using Walthers new Hiawatha cars, and a TrueLine sleeper in Milw colors.
UP 844 travels a lot too, Athearn coming out with a model of it now.
MOST 'EXCURSION' TRAINS are in business to make money, and use whater engines are available.
Engines that were 'Authenic' have to be housed and maintained. UP keeps a 4-8-4 and E-8 in Cheyanne WY. San Bernadino Historical Society owns ATSF 3751, and a private group maintains GS 4 #4449 in Portland OR. These can be 'rented' for special occasions.
TWO groups have taken over Narrow Gauge fascilities in Colorado, and maintain Narrow gauge 2-8-0's. Both are really authentic as well as scenic (Ex D&RGW).
There are other private groups restoring steam, but it's 'potluck'. MOST late steam engines were donated by the RR's, and are sitting in parks.
my05hammer wrote:Yup the "J" had 0-8-0's, but in my story line the fictitious "Anchor Valley Central" would have been the railroad that owned the steam Locomotive. AVC was bought out by EJ&E in 1999. Or so my story goes. So I will have a mix of AVC equipment and EJ&E stuff. I am looking at the Broadway Limited USRA 2-8-2 Heavy Unlettered. (Still want a Northern too... it can be passing through!)
USRA steamers were not around in 1902. I'd still recommend it. Older steam was often scrapped early in its career, with only the locomotives which stayed active into the 50's, having a chance of preservation.
Alex
1902 locomotives would have been slide valve engines. The cylinders look like a single cyliner with a rectagular box on top. Piston valve engines (cylindrical valve on top of a cylindrical cylinder (I know, redundant) may have existed, but they did not catch on until around 1910. Most likely, a 2-8-0 is as big an engine as you'd find, and the visible valve gear was not as complex as with the piston valve engines.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
my05hammer wrote:I am modeling a fictional branch of the EJ&E railroad set in 2008. I know nothing about steam engines other than how steam propulsion works, that they were big, heavy, dirty, technological marvels, and an awesome feat of engineering for their time. I want to put a steam engine on my layout as an excursion train. What locos are available that would have been seen in 1902? I am looking for an 0-8-0, a 4-8-4 or something like that (you know... something in the 200,000lb or larger range with lotsa wheels, neet rods, levers, and pipes N stuff that will run well and can be converted to DCC). An articulated would be really cool too, but probably out of range price wise.
As a branch of the J, I'd go for excursion trains from other lines using your rails. Then you could have the fun of running N&W A's or J's, UP Challengers, Big Boys, Northerns, SP Northerns, etc. i'm not sure where the NKP steam group is located. You may need to run a Berk or 2 on a break-in run pulling freight. for coaches, you can collect anything out of the railroad society preservation pool, private cars, etc.
cbq9911a wrote:If the J were running steam excursions they'd logically borrow a steamer from the Illinois Railway Museum in Union (www.irm.org). IRM has a good selection of steamers of all sizes. The loco chosen would depend on the size of the excursion train. For a 6 car excursion train any steamer bigger than a 2-6-0 would do.
And we have a winner!!! Frisco 2-10-0 #1630, one of them Russkie decapods.
http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi?steam=St.+Louis-San+Francisco+Railroad=1630
Interestingly enough, Bachmann has made a model of the Russian Decapod in the Frisco version. How's that for serendipity?
Andre
It does look like a 30's-40's era loco will be my choice. Remember, its not what the EJ&E really ran or would run, but how much
imagination you have. lol!!
1930s
Jon
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I like that. What are the details on that loco? What brand is it etc.?
my05hammer wrote: I like that. What are the details on that loco? What brand is it etc.?
The loco is a Proto 2000 Heritage 0-8-0 and the decals are by Champ Decals - and are still available when I last looked. There may even be a pre-painted Heritage loco in EJ&E livery, not seen one myself though.
I'd go with the 2-10-0 - you can get them with IIRC Tsumani sound for under $150 at MicroMark.
An 0-8-0 yard switcher wouldn't normally be used to pull excursion trains etc. since it was made for slow speed operation with long cuts of freight cars in freight yard switching service. The 2-10-0 had pretty small drivers too but could go around 45 MPH I'd guess, and real ones are used on tourist lines.