Not really...Honestly if they would replace some of the BB kits I was looking for with the RTR version (Like those Nifty NW 50' box cars I picked up at the Train show) I would e a happy puppy. It's totally a supply and demand/price issue with me. :)
aloco wrote: highhood63 wrote:I don't know if it's from really bad management, or if Horizon is just into the Collectable craze, but lately it's getting hard to find old Athearn standards that use to be Readily available.Methinks you are lamenting the passing of the old blue box days. I don't miss them one bit. If anything, Athearn stuff has gotten better, especially when it comes to choice of road names and paint schemes. Back in the old blue box days (1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s) the selection was quite limited. I scooped up all the blue box stuff I could find in my favourite road names, and a good chunk of what I have is custom painted stuff (Bev-Bel, CM Shops, etc.) in road names and paint schemes that Athearn never offered.
highhood63 wrote:I don't know if it's from really bad management, or if Horizon is just into the Collectable craze, but lately it's getting hard to find old Athearn standards that use to be Readily available.
Methinks you are lamenting the passing of the old blue box days. I don't miss them one bit. If anything, Athearn stuff has gotten better, especially when it comes to choice of road names and paint schemes. Back in the old blue box days (1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s) the selection was quite limited.
I scooped up all the blue box stuff I could find in my favourite road names, and a good chunk of what I have is custom painted stuff (Bev-Bel, CM Shops, etc.) in road names and paint schemes that Athearn never offered.
Well, I find RTR a convience.
That big water tower from Walthers was such a time saver. In a box, take it out and put it on the railroad.
Dont tell anyone but it is store bought. The industry it sits near has been on my workbench for about 6 weeks with daily trials and tribulations along with bit of blood and invention to be completed. That building kit did have a water tower kit. But now it is a candidate for a flatcar load of girders and what not. I sure as heck wasnt gonna wrestle with cabling, beams and round objects that never quite square when gluing. No sir.
One store in Mabelvale is full of Athearn kits and some rtr. To me, I think Athearn is doing quite well.
Oh by the way it's the high end Engines with DCC and sound (QSI etc) that dropped in pricing while the genesis has held steady over the years.
Im looking at a diner right now on ebay that appears to be well done and might find a home on my town. Is it store bought? No. Is it someone else's work building and detailing? Yes. Do I think it is worth the asking price? Maybe.
I enjoy rewarding fellow modelers who do good work by an occasional purchase on ebay. Sometimes I have had to tear it down and rebuild it after it suffers extensive damage in shipping. Boy buster brown is getting quite bad with his crushing emphasis on ontime delivery.
I have said before in the past, I can take a BB Boxcar, outfit it with Proto Wheels, 148 whisker couplers and finish it properly. The unit cost of this car approaches but does not exceed a RTR that needs to have it's plastic couplers thrown away and the stamped cheep metal wheels replaced.
dinwitty wrote:What are these manufacturers thinking? This is a builder's hobby, but granted Mr Average Public isn't skilled, or is that the trend in today's world, everybody is just buy it off the shelf and its done? Every layout will be exactly the same if that were true. Sooorrrryyyy, we're back to the toy train business, just with higher quality. A layout is a designed and sometimes personal and that delight of building something cool thet YOU did.
What are these manufacturers thinking? This is a builder's hobby, but granted Mr Average Public isn't skilled, or is that the trend in today's world, everybody is just buy it off the shelf and its done? Every layout will be exactly the same if that were true. Sooorrrryyyy, we're back to the toy train business, just with higher quality. A layout is a designed and sometimes personal and that delight of building something cool thet YOU did.
The manufacturers are thinking what their sales and experience show them. Look at how locomotives sales have expanded with the acceptance of RTR by the mainstream. There are many model railroaders/collectors with more than 20 locomotives. If the only way to obtain locomotives was to build kits, how many of us would have more than 20 locomotives? I guarantee the number would be a lot less.
It still may be a builders hobby for some of us, but not for the majority. Another benefit of the RTR trend besides the expanded locomotive market is the huge increase in the number of layouts larger than 4x8 reaching a reasonable completion level, thereby expanding the market for all model railroad supplies. Thanks to RTR, a room-sized layout completed to the point of mostly scenicked and operational, 20 locomotives, and 50 cars is achieveable in 1-3 years (provided you have enough money). DCC has all but eliminated control panels and simplified wiring. But when you had to build your locomotives, cars, structures, turnouts, and control panels from parts or kits, getting a room-sized layout to an operational state with some scenery was a 5-10 year endeavor.
Agree with you - it's not much different than the toy train business where everything is RTR, and often collected rather than operated. Just a huge increase in level of detail and realism.
There are still plenty of craftsman kits available - you just don't see them advertised in Model Railroader. And they are usually gathering dust in the back corners of the better LHSs, and not even present at all in the not-so-better LHSs.
just my thoughts
Fred W
I too agree about the Athearn pricing as being quite high for it's level of craftmanship. At our lhs, the new RTR's are $70 plus(SD40-2 etc) and when I compare them to the Atlas Silver or Master Series with manned interiors,better motor/drive and MU hoses a little over 20 dollars more, I tend not to buy RTR's. Only real way that I buy a RTR is if no one else(Atlas,BLI,Kato,P2K) offers that type loco. Not counting that you can get a better loco at a better price on Ebay, that further keeps me from buying RTR.
Now in all fairness, I believe the Genesis line is on par with the other lines and if Athearn offered a better motor to go with their newer RTR's, I would probably buy more, but why work/tweek on a motor or re-motor a $70 plus loco? If RTR is supposed to be middle of the road in value, then I think that the prices are too high. Maybe that is why they are getting harder to find. Detailing on a RTR isn't to my expectation when the walkways are smooth and the GP40-2's seems to be re-boxed BB's with their lighted cab. They are priced less, but why waste time on a fading design?
highhood63 wrote: Point being a fraction of my purchases are Athearn, how many other consumers are following in our footsteps? A lot more than are buying Athearn I'll betcha, in the mean time I just found out that surprise, surprise that both Walthers and Atlas is ramping up to produce more mid to late 20th century motive power, if these guys takes Athearns place a the "Ford" of Model Railroading (Nice analogy that) you can pretty much kiss the new upscale Athearn goodbye. Do I want to see this happen? Heck no! But I didn't want to see my favorite manufacturer turn all Franklin mint on me either.
Point being a fraction of my purchases are Athearn, how many other consumers are following in our footsteps? A lot more than are buying Athearn I'll betcha, in the mean time I just found out that surprise, surprise that both Walthers and Atlas is ramping up to produce more mid to late 20th century motive power, if these guys takes Athearns place a the "Ford" of Model Railroading (Nice analogy that) you can pretty much kiss the new upscale Athearn goodbye. Do I want to see this happen? Heck no! But I didn't want to see my favorite manufacturer turn all Franklin mint on me either.
hh63:
Another Ford will certainly take their place if they abandon it, but they won't necessarily go away...who knows, they may become a successful Lincoln or Cadillac, if that's what Horizon is trying to do. Still, I have to say that there are already a lot of Cadillacs, so while they may succeed, and no goodbyes would be in order, they wouldn't be unique any more, FWTW.
Is this a good idea? Well, Horizon thinks it's a good idea, and I suppose they know their business more than I do. But I always assumed GM knew their business more than I did, even when, a few years back, they were letting their very successful bread-and-butter cars "coast", being sure that the future lay in filling a hundred tiny niche markets and selling big-buck luxury trucks. Meanwhile, some competitors were working on their bread-and-butter cars. Ooooops.
But maybe Horizon won't drop one and keep the other. Maybe they *will* manage to succeed even while having multiple personalities. Life-Like did something like that for the last 15 years.
My own feelings are mixed. Some Athearn cars are kind of odd and unfortunately ubiquitous. The single-dome tank is an ugly duckling with no corresponding swan. The boxcar claws are strange, and seemingly not necessary for opening doors (which I do like to have). But, like the model T, they were cheap, rugged, and very reliable, and that's something I would miss if we didn't have it.
csmith9474 wrote:I think I saw it here, but I heard something to the effect that there was a manufacturing problem (QA?!?!?!?!?!) and they had to ship them back over to China or something like that. I have a Super Chief/El Cap with no power right now. That is a lot of angry passengers!!!!
I think I saw it here, but I heard something to the effect that there was a manufacturing problem (QA?!?!?!?!?!) and they had to ship them back over to China or something like that. I have a Super Chief/El Cap with no power right now. That is a lot of angry passengers!!!!
cs:
Aw, the diseasel is a no-show. Better get some steam for protection power.
my05hammer wrote: csmith9474 wrote:I just want my FP45s already!! Early April???? I have a BB Amtrak FP45 for sale!! LOL!! Its only one though not a set etc.
csmith9474 wrote:I just want my FP45s already!! Early April????
Russell
Ok...they released a High Hood N&W SD40? Uuuugh.....NS bug is coming back...bleh. They wont get the headlights right on the Dash 9s anytime soon anyways.
Still, a high hood SD40 may just have to find a home with me....just cause.
CAZEPHYR wrote: highhood63 wrote: They had 40s..which was more or less the same engine. honestly Athearn could have dropped the X and few would have really noticed the difference.. And quoting Wiki isn't the most solid foundation to build upon. the Greenbat was an Odball, the 40x was simply a prototype of the 40.The GP40X has flaired radiators and does not look like a GP-40. The SPa nd UP versions had special type trucks also. They look more like a short SD45. Case in point below. http://ncespee.railfan.net/spgp40x/sp7231.html Order #DateModelRoadNumbersQty.Remarks776008:06.78GP40XATSF38001Master776009:06.78GP40XATSF38011Remote776054:04.78 to 05.78GP40XATSF3802-38098.766066:06.78GP40XSOU7000-70023High Hood766016:02.78GP40XSP7200, 7201, 7230, 72314.766068:12.77 to 03.78GP40XUP9000-90056.
highhood63 wrote: They had 40s..which was more or less the same engine. honestly Athearn could have dropped the X and few would have really noticed the difference.. And quoting Wiki isn't the most solid foundation to build upon. the Greenbat was an Odball, the 40x was simply a prototype of the 40.
They had 40s..which was more or less the same engine. honestly Athearn could have dropped the X and few would have really noticed the difference.. And quoting Wiki isn't the most solid foundation to build upon. the Greenbat was an Odball, the 40x was simply a prototype of the 40.
The GP40X has flaired radiators and does not look like a GP-40. The SPa nd UP versions had special type trucks also. They look more like a short SD45.
Case in point below.
http://ncespee.railfan.net/spgp40x/sp7231.html
Thanks for explaining this. They are not like GP40s whatsoever. They are longer, too.
This brings up the good ol' GP vs. SD theory...the SD45 was never made in a GP version, such as the GP30 never made in a SD version.
Would a GP40X have looked like the never produced GP45?????????? Ok, back out of my little proto-freelance world.
Phil
Highhood Actually the GP40X was indeed a experimental locomotive that look similar to the GP40/40-2..The GP40X has a flared radiator like the SD45.The only Geep unit so equipped.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
It seems none of us makes decisions at Horizon Hobbies, but all of us know how to run their business better than they do.
What has been said by Horizon officials:
- When there is suffcient demand (orders from hobby shops), they will do re-runs. As far as I can tell, this has happened. Perhaps not as quickly as some would like, but the re-runs have been there. Compare with a Walters discontinued structure, or other manufacturers. Very few do re-runs more often than every few years (with Blackstone being the exception I know of).
- Improvements have been made on re-issues of Athearn and Roundhouse. Without a doubt, this has happened.
As far as Horizon as a distributor servicing their customers - yes, the sale of Athearn and Roundhouse to Horizon forced hobby shops to add Horizon as a distributor to carry these lines that they could formerly get through Walters. Both Walters and Horizon make it difficult for very small shops or retailers without a brick and mortar site to order from them. My guess (and it's my guess only) is that very small accounts are more trouble than they are worth. And neither distributor/manufacturer wants to undercut their primary LHS customers by distributing to etailers and those selling out of basements. Does Horizon have absolute minimums? One former hobby shop owner says no, another says yes through a second hand report.
Has Horizon focused on locomotives and neglected the Blue Box line? Probably yes, to some extent. Locomotives are high profit/high risk items, and new models have to be continually invested in and released to keep mind and wallet share of today's model railroaders/collectors. There are far more locomotives owned per model railroader today than decades ago. And that's where all the buzz is.
There's not much made of new car releases in HO standard gauge these days. In comparison, Blackstone and MicroTrains car releases in HOn3 have been hot sellers, and information about coming releases is eagerly sought after. Which leads me to suspect that the number of cars per model railroader in HO isn't increasing all that much; all the interest is in locomotives.
Couple the decline of interest in cars with the "tiredness" of the former Athearn and Roundhouse car kits. Way too many of these kits are generic, and without the prototypical accuracy demanded by today's modelers. Prootype-specific cars being done by other manufacturers have stolen most of the high-end car market. Finally, tack on the move to RTR instead of kits. And this was happening even before the buy-outs. So I'm not surprised to see a decline in BB sales at many LHS. And without the LHS orders, Horizon sees no point in re-running the models that don't sell.
Which goes back to the original point - Horizon takes its cues about demand from the LHSs that it distributes to. If you want a model made by Horizon, your LHS has to order/request it. When enough orders from LHSs come in, the model will be made.
You may not like the Horizon business model. But in this great country, you are free to compete with your better ideas, and show the rest of us how it should be done.
my thoughts, your choices
wgnrr wrote:In other words, slamming
Your'e playing Antics with semantics.
wgnrr wrote:What was that called when Athearn re-ran those SP GP40Xs and just recently the GOtransit Bombardier commuter cars.......hmmm
I'll take an anomaly for 200 Alex. Seriously that's all you have in four years of Horizon ownership? Irv spins in his grave
wgnrr wrote:C&NW had GP40Xs?????? The SP sold out right away on the first run. The SP ones on there are re-runs. None of the other schemes have been re-released. The GP40X IS oddball. Only 23 were built, and it was meant to be an experiment with new technologies that were put into other later locos...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP40X
The GP40X IS oddball. Only 23 were built, and it was meant to be an experiment with new technologies that were put into other later locos...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP40X
highhood63 wrote: Right..and that was actually my original point...I didn't really expect to get waylaid by the local Athearn Glee club
"Glee Club"
I am still laughing. That was funny.
You are right, we'll just keep modeling, and we'll have fun doing it. If Athearn comes around they come around. If not, well, somebody will pick up the slack.
The reason I like Athearns is because I can get the Earnst gear reduction kits. I installed them in every Athearn/clone I have. In fact the only non Athearn locos I am using are two Walthers F40's and two Model Power E8's. The rest (GP30's, SD35's, RS3's, SD60's, CF7's, GP7's) are all Athearn powered but NOT Athearns (home built from parts of various manufactures)
highhood63 wrote: Right..and that was actually my original point...I didn't really expect to get waylaid by the local Athearn Glee club And yes complaining won't get the layout built, My motive power is pretty much acquired anyway and only a couple units are Athearn..the rest will be Rail Power shells Kato Drives and whatever else I can kit bash for Prototype. As far as Rolling stock goes Atlas, Walthers, Intermountain, and Old MDC kits. Point being a fraction of my purchases are Athearn, how many other consumers are following in our footsteps? A lot more than are buying Athearn I'll betcha, in the mean time I just found out that surprise, surprise that both Walthers and Atlas is ramping up to produce more mid to late 20th century motive power, if these guys takes Athearns place a the "Ford" of Model Railroading (Nice analogy that) you can pretty much kiss the new upscale Athearn goodbye. Do I want to see this happen? Heck no! But I didn't want to see my favorite manufacturer turn all Franklin mint on me either. my05hammer wrote: After a 20 year absence from the hobby, I found 2 things that were very disturbing when I got back into the hobby this past Christmas. 1) The Athearn I grew up with is not the Athearn we have now, it seems that they are always out of stock or backordered. 2) The extremely high prices we have to pay for locos, rolling stock, and structures. I am combatting it all by; 1) purchasing older BB Athearns on ebay, 2) building my own locos out of old shells, home made brass frames or machined Athearn BB frames, and old Athearn trucks, (so far I have purchased/built around 20-25 locos since Dec. of 07) 3) I purchased 21 coal cars directly from Con-Cor for 6.44 each, (yes I had to wait for 6 weeks for the next batch, but heck they were $6.44 each) 4) I will be scratch building all of my structures using the Modelbuilder suite I have. These are just some of the ways I had to re-adjust and become more resourceful with my money and the hobby. Yes I complained at first but complaining wasn't getting the layout built.
Right..and that was actually my original point...I didn't really expect to get waylaid by the local Athearn Glee club
And yes complaining won't get the layout built, My motive power is pretty much acquired anyway and only a couple units are Athearn..the rest will be Rail Power shells Kato Drives and whatever else I can kit bash for Prototype. As far as Rolling stock goes Atlas, Walthers, Intermountain, and Old MDC kits.
my05hammer wrote: After a 20 year absence from the hobby, I found 2 things that were very disturbing when I got back into the hobby this past Christmas. 1) The Athearn I grew up with is not the Athearn we have now, it seems that they are always out of stock or backordered. 2) The extremely high prices we have to pay for locos, rolling stock, and structures. I am combatting it all by; 1) purchasing older BB Athearns on ebay, 2) building my own locos out of old shells, home made brass frames or machined Athearn BB frames, and old Athearn trucks, (so far I have purchased/built around 20-25 locos since Dec. of 07) 3) I purchased 21 coal cars directly from Con-Cor for 6.44 each, (yes I had to wait for 6 weeks for the next batch, but heck they were $6.44 each) 4) I will be scratch building all of my structures using the Modelbuilder suite I have. These are just some of the ways I had to re-adjust and become more resourceful with my money and the hobby. Yes I complained at first but complaining wasn't getting the layout built.
After a 20 year absence from the hobby, I found 2 things that were very disturbing when I got back into the hobby this past Christmas.
1) The Athearn I grew up with is not the Athearn we have now, it seems that they are always out of stock or backordered.
2) The extremely high prices we have to pay for locos, rolling stock, and structures.
I am combatting it all by;
1) purchasing older BB Athearns on ebay,
2) building my own locos out of old shells, home made brass frames or machined Athearn BB frames, and old Athearn trucks, (so far I have purchased/built around 20-25 locos since Dec. of 07)
3) I purchased 21 coal cars directly from Con-Cor for 6.44 each, (yes I had to wait for 6 weeks for the next batch, but heck they were $6.44 each)
4) I will be scratch building all of my structures using the Modelbuilder suite I have.
These are just some of the ways I had to re-adjust and become more resourceful with my money and the hobby.
Yes I complained at first but complaining wasn't getting the layout built.
Highhood,Again facts will prove other wise..Why else would runs be sold out if nobody is buying Athearn?
As far as a "Athearn glee club" no..You didn't have your facts straight and you heard about the way things are.First you didn't want to accept the links to on line hobby shops that are long time MR and RMC advertisers.Then when several of us pointed out the availability of Athearn we was called a "glee club".
Rotorranch wrote: jerryl wrote: Many smaller Hobby shops no longer carry Athern because of a minimum order requirement. They have to order a certain dollar amount per year to carry thier product. They also insist that they be the only distributor. It's true that most I've seen at train shows are old stock items. Really think they made a mistake not letting Walthers distribute. Also, the choice of the MRC sound decoder isn't helping.....Time will tell.Not exactly true. Horizon doesn't have a minimum order requirement. However, larger orders, and more volume per year does get the shop a deeper discount, free or reduced shipping, etc.Exclusivity of products is not unusual in the hobby industry. Who distributes Walthers or Life-Like products? Not Horizon, not Great Planes, only Walthers. Likewise, Horizon is the exclusive distributor of Athearn/Roundhouse.I owned a hobby shop for several years, and there is NO WAY you can have what you need by using only one distributor. I actually had close to a dozen different distributors I dealt with on a regular basis, just to have the items my custumers wanted. Rotor Not what the owner of my LHS told me.
jerryl wrote: Many smaller Hobby shops no longer carry Athern because of a minimum order requirement. They have to order a certain dollar amount per year to carry thier product. They also insist that they be the only distributor. It's true that most I've seen at train shows are old stock items. Really think they made a mistake not letting Walthers distribute. Also, the choice of the MRC sound decoder isn't helping.....Time will tell.
Not exactly true. Horizon doesn't have a minimum order requirement. However, larger orders, and more volume per year does get the shop a deeper discount, free or reduced shipping, etc.
Exclusivity of products is not unusual in the hobby industry.
Who distributes Walthers or Life-Like products? Not Horizon, not Great Planes, only Walthers.
Likewise, Horizon is the exclusive distributor of Athearn/Roundhouse.
I owned a hobby shop for several years, and there is NO WAY you can have what you need by using only one distributor.
I actually had close to a dozen different distributors I dealt with on a regular basis, just to have the items my custumers wanted.
Rotor Not what the owner of my LHS told me.
As far as BB kits most modelers I know has gone Athearn RTR and hasn't look back..The why varies from modeler to modeler but,most agree the RTR car has less(if any)tweaking to make it a smooth runner.
As a side note all of my RTR cars was good to go after adding KD 148s and I haven't bought a BB kit in months.
I plan on ordering 6 Accurail 50' Chessie(C&O) boxcar kits along with 6 pairs of Athearn trucks with metal wheels.When I do order,these kits will be the first kits since the BB kits.
mobilman44 wrote: I've first bought Athearn back in the early '60s, and still buy them occasionally. The move of the Company to Horizon has been a bummer (IMHO) and the LHS agrees. I think they are more interested in high dollar locos and ready to run cars, and the ol blue box kits are becoming fillers to their production line.
I've first bought Athearn back in the early '60s, and still buy them occasionally. The move of the Company to Horizon has been a bummer (IMHO) and the LHS agrees. I think they are more interested in high dollar locos and ready to run cars, and the ol blue box kits are becoming fillers to their production line.
mm44:
I am inclined to agree with this. The kits are still available, but they seem to be letting them "coast"...and even if somebody now steps up to show that this is objectively untrue, the existence of this perception in so many modelers seems to tell me that there has been some sort of failure, at least, in promotion of their cheaper line.
I can not find any SP MP15AC. It is on order since weeks at my German dealer.
The dealer is optimistic because Athearn did accept the order. He thinks that is an indication the engine is still in production in China and we have to wait until a new batch comes from China to USA to my German dealer to my layout.
I'm not so sure I'm young enough to wait for that kind of supply chain
Reinhard
I think part of the selection at the LHS is how much the LHS owner/manager knows about the modeling likes of their customers. My LHS which finaly went out of business, had tons of stuff that he would never sell in this part of the country, and he would not keep in stock the ATSF, BN and UP stuff that was selling as fast as he could put it on the shelf. He also had an over abundance of cheep train sets. He did carry a good supply of paint, wood, styrene and brass for scratch building.
I and many of my MRR friends always tried to support the LHS eventhough he never offered a discount. I was excited a few years ago when he said that he would be offering DCC. He had four MRC Command 2000 in his display case which were still there, at full retail price when (last Fall) he went out of business. Most of the modelers in this area use Digitrax or Easy DCC.
I was working out of town when the LHS closed. I was informed the decision to close was based upon excessive increases in rent and utilities and not lack of customers. I wish I would have known about the closing, because the guy had a nice selection of old Athearn BB and Roundhouse kits.
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
highhood63 wrote: Paul3 wrote: highhood63,Welcome to the forum, tho' you've picked an interesting way to say hello here by slamming a manufacturer. Slamming? I would call it lamenting their poor production and their exclusitivity jag..but whatever.In other words, slamming Paul3 wrote: Athearn has been doing batch production for decades. I remember back in the early 1990's that one could not find Athearn 200 Ton cranes or RDC's anywhere. Today, they are merely doing the smaller batches because, quite frankly, old blue box kits just aren't selling like they used to. And last I checked, they are in business to make money, not to keep everyone happy all the time. Yes Irv started the batch job philosophy, but never in Athearns History have you had so much of their product out of stock, in the past you might have had three or four product lines out of stock waiting for the next batch...cruse over to the Athearn store on Horizons site and look at the amount of product that isn't in stock. Further.... right now they aren't keeping very many people happy with lack of product...that isn't really the most intelligent way to make money.Maybe that's where Athearn went wrong. Too much production, not much development. When it's gone, it's discontinued...sold out. This is not the old Athearn where there were plain engines in the same box. All of these new engines are taylored to the demands of US. Some are more popular than others.I cruse over to HH's site, and see them not in stock. How about crusing over to Athearn's web site, and see that it is discontinued. Paul3 wrote: Today, when Athearn says "discontinued", it only means that the latest batch was run and sold out. It doesn't mean that they won't run them again. Not really seeing any evidence that they will guy...perhaps you have some inside track us mere mortals lack?What was that called when Athearn re-ran those SP GP40Xs and just recently the GOtransit Bombardier commuter cars.......hmmm Paul3 wrote: Horizon has every interest in making sales. That they don't keep all Athearn blue box kits in production 100% of the time is probably more of an indication that they aren't selling that well, rather than the incompetance of Horizon's ownership. And your proof of this is where? Every LHS I go to, every Train swap I attend the BB kits are in big demand, Ebay sales are brisk..sounds like a market to me. Paul3 wrote: Limited runs (or batch productions) are here to stay because it allows the manufacturer a quick return on investment and eliminates storage costs. Atlas, BTW, does the same thing as Athearn. So if you think Atlas buying Athearn is going to change anything, you are mistaken. Not really Atlas only limits about 30% of it's product line at any given time, and that is usually relegated to new product that hasn't been proven sales wise. Standards (The RS units for example) are always readily available. Paul3 wrote: BTW, it would be best if you did not issue facts without some kind of evidence. The NS GP40X high-hood was a money printer? Says who? I'm in a 60+ member club, and no one has bought one that I've seen. SP GP40X's, yeah, I've seen a couple. NS gets no love around these parts. To base your entire argument on that is rather weak. Oh, and these limited runs is what allowed Athearn to make such an oddball loco in the first place. If they did nothing but constant productions runs, you'd only have loco models available that could sell constantly. IOW, GP9's and F-units. And you might want to consider that the world doesn't revolve around Massachusetts just because that unit doesn't pop in Bean town doesn't mean that isn't the case in ten other states. Those models were pretty much impossible to find a couple months after release. Except for the SP Road name which you can still grab on Ebay. And the 40X was a precursor of the 40..hardly oddball considering many major Roads like Santa Fe, SP, SOU SCL, and CN&W all had units on their roster.C&NW had GP40Xs?????? The SP sold out right away on the first run. The SP ones on there are re-runs. None of the other schemes have been re-released. The GP40X IS oddball. Only 23 were built, and it was meant to be an experiment with new technologies that were put into other later locos...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP40X Anyway thanks for the warm welcome..and the stream of Hyperbole. :)
Paul3 wrote: highhood63,Welcome to the forum, tho' you've picked an interesting way to say hello here by slamming a manufacturer.
highhood63,Welcome to the forum, tho' you've picked an interesting way to say hello here by slamming a manufacturer.
Slamming? I would call it lamenting their poor production and their exclusitivity jag..but whatever.
In other words, slamming
Paul3 wrote: Athearn has been doing batch production for decades. I remember back in the early 1990's that one could not find Athearn 200 Ton cranes or RDC's anywhere. Today, they are merely doing the smaller batches because, quite frankly, old blue box kits just aren't selling like they used to. And last I checked, they are in business to make money, not to keep everyone happy all the time.
Yes Irv started the batch job philosophy, but never in Athearns History have you had so much of their product out of stock, in the past you might have had three or four product lines out of stock waiting for the next batch...cruse over to the Athearn store on Horizons site and look at the amount of product that isn't in stock. Further.... right now they aren't keeping very many people happy with lack of product...that isn't really the most intelligent way to make money.
Maybe that's where Athearn went wrong. Too much production, not much development. When it's gone, it's discontinued...sold out. This is not the old Athearn where there were plain engines in the same box. All of these new engines are taylored to the demands of US. Some are more popular than others.
I cruse over to HH's site, and see them not in stock. How about crusing over to Athearn's web site, and see that it is discontinued.
Paul3 wrote: Today, when Athearn says "discontinued", it only means that the latest batch was run and sold out. It doesn't mean that they won't run them again.
Not really seeing any evidence that they will guy...perhaps you have some inside track us mere mortals lack?
What was that called when Athearn re-ran those SP GP40Xs and just recently the GOtransit Bombardier commuter cars.......hmmm
Paul3 wrote: Horizon has every interest in making sales. That they don't keep all Athearn blue box kits in production 100% of the time is probably more of an indication that they aren't selling that well, rather than the incompetance of Horizon's ownership.
And your proof of this is where? Every LHS I go to, every Train swap I attend the BB kits are in big demand, Ebay sales are brisk..sounds like a market to me.
Paul3 wrote: Limited runs (or batch productions) are here to stay because it allows the manufacturer a quick return on investment and eliminates storage costs. Atlas, BTW, does the same thing as Athearn. So if you think Atlas buying Athearn is going to change anything, you are mistaken.
Not really Atlas only limits about 30% of it's product line at any given time, and that is usually relegated to new product that hasn't been proven sales wise. Standards (The RS units for example) are always readily available.
Paul3 wrote: BTW, it would be best if you did not issue facts without some kind of evidence. The NS GP40X high-hood was a money printer? Says who? I'm in a 60+ member club, and no one has bought one that I've seen. SP GP40X's, yeah, I've seen a couple. NS gets no love around these parts. To base your entire argument on that is rather weak. Oh, and these limited runs is what allowed Athearn to make such an oddball loco in the first place. If they did nothing but constant productions runs, you'd only have loco models available that could sell constantly. IOW, GP9's and F-units.
And you might want to consider that the world doesn't revolve around Massachusetts just because that unit doesn't pop in Bean town doesn't mean that isn't the case in ten other states. Those models were pretty much impossible to find a couple months after release. Except for the SP Road name which you can still grab on Ebay. And the 40X was a precursor of the 40..hardly oddball considering many major Roads like Santa Fe, SP, SOU SCL, and CN&W all had units on their roster.
C&NW had GP40Xs?????? The SP sold out right away on the first run. The SP ones on there are re-runs. None of the other schemes have been re-released.
Anyway thanks for the warm welcome..and the stream of Hyperbole. :)
Phil (in the red...)
my05hammer wrote: jerryl wrote: Many smaller Hobby shops no longer carry Athern because of a minimum order requirement. They have to order a certain dollar amount per year to carry thier product. They also insist that they be the only distributor. It's true that most I've seen at train shows are old stock items. Really think they made a mistake not letting Walthers distribute. Also, the choice of the MRC sound decoder isn't helping.....Time will tell. The local hobby shop in town where I live informed me that they will not be carrying Athearn because Horizon wants its retailers to be able to support $250.00 worth of sails per month, and have a $15,000.00 supply on hand at all times. The guy running our shop is trying to restart his shop after a hiatus and just can't afford to keep all that stock on hand running a shop out of a down town basement.
The local hobby shop in town where I live informed me that they will not be carrying Athearn because Horizon wants its retailers to be able to support $250.00 worth of sails per month, and have a $15,000.00 supply on hand at all times. The guy running our shop is trying to restart his shop after a hiatus and just can't afford to keep all that stock on hand running a shop out of a down town basement.
That's why hobby shops fail by the dozens..Not carrying all brands and not having the cash flow to do so...
Its his lost and his competitors gain.
highhood63,You better recheck your facts..All of those shops I linked to are top of the line hobby shops and not a dumping ground like e-bay.
Again your comments is baseless.
As Paul3 pointed out Athearn is a batch producer just like the other manufacturers.
Fact: Athearn has monthly new product news releases has does Atlas.
Fact: Athearn products can be easily found even on e-Bay.
Fact:Back ordered means some road names are sold out including the NS GP40X.
Fact: if a locomotive or car is "discontinued" that doesn't mean it can't be found by looking for it.