Athearn is getting harder and harder to find

[highhood63]

 

 

 

 

Right..and that was actually my original point...I didn't really expect to get waylaid by the local Athearn Glee club

And yes complaining won't get the layout built, My motive power is pretty much acquired anyway and only a couple units are Athearn..the rest will be Rail Power shells Kato Drives and whatever else I can kit bash for Prototype. As far as Rolling stock goes Atlas, Walthers, Intermountain, and Old MDC kits.

Point being a fraction of my purchases are Athearn, how many other consumers are following in our footsteps?  A lot more than are buying Athearn I'll betcha, in the mean time I just found out that surprise, surprise that both Walthers and Atlas is ramping up to produce more mid to late 20^th century motive power, if these guys takes Athearns place a the "Ford" of Model Railroading (Nice analogy that) you can pretty much kiss the new upscale Athearn goodbye. Do I want to see this happen? Heck no! But I didn't want to see my favorite manufacturer turn all Franklin mint on me either.

After a 20 year absence from the hobby, I found 2 things that were very disturbing when I got back into the hobby this past Christmas. 

1) The Athearn I grew up with is not the Athearn we have now, it seems that they are always out of stock or backordered. 

2) The extremely high prices we have to pay for locos, rolling stock, and structures. 

I am combatting it all by;

1) purchasing older BB Athearns on ebay,

2) building my own locos out of old shells, home made brass frames or machined Athearn BB frames, and old Athearn trucks,  (so far I have purchased/built around 20-25 locos since Dec. of 07) 

3) I purchased 21 coal cars directly from Con-Cor for 6.44 each, (yes I had to wait for 6 weeks for the next batch, but heck they were $6.44 each) 

4) I will be scratch building all of my structures using the Modelbuilder suite I have. 

These are just some of the ways I had to re-adjust and become more resourceful with my money and the hobby. 

Yes I complained at first but complaining wasn't getting the layout built.

 

 

 

[BRAKIE]

As far as BB kits most modelers I know has gone Athearn RTR and hasn't look back..The why varies from modeler to modeler but,most agree the RTR car has less(if any)tweaking to make it a smooth runner.

As a side note all of my RTR cars was good to go after adding KD 148s and I haven't bought a BB kit in months.

I plan on ordering 6 Accurail 50' Chessie(C&O) boxcar kits along with 6 pairs of Athearn trucks with metal wheels.When I do order,these kits will be the first kits since the BB kits.

[jerryl]

  Many smaller Hobby shops no longer carry Athern because of a minimum order requirement.  They have to order a certain dollar amount per year to carry thier product.  They also insist that they be the only distributor. It's true that most I've seen at train shows are old stock items. Really think they made a mistake not letting Walthers distribute.  Also, the choice of the MRC sound decoder isn't helping.....Time will tell.

Not exactly true. Horizon doesn't have a minimum order requirement. However, larger orders, and more volume per year does get the shop a deeper discount, free or reduced shipping, etc.

Exclusivity of products is not unusual in the hobby industry.

Who distributes Walthers or Life-Like products? Not Horizon, not Great Planes, only Walthers.

Likewise, Horizon is the exclusive distributor of Athearn/Roundhouse.

I owned a hobby shop for several years, and there is NO WAY you can have what you need by using only one distributor.

I actually had close to a dozen different distributors I dealt with on a regular basis, just to have the items my custumers wanted.

Rotor   Not what the owner of my LHS told me.

[BRAKIE]

 

 

 

 

Right..and that was actually my original point...I didn't really expect to get waylaid by the local Athearn Glee club

And yes complaining won't get the layout built, My motive power is pretty much acquired anyway and only a couple units are Athearn..the rest will be Rail Power shells Kato Drives and whatever else I can kit bash for Prototype. As far as Rolling stock goes Atlas, Walthers, Intermountain, and Old MDC kits.

Point being a fraction of my purchases are Athearn, how many other consumers are following in our footsteps?  A lot more than are buying Athearn I'll betcha, in the mean time I just found out that surprise, surprise that both Walthers and Atlas is ramping up to produce more mid to late 20^th century motive power, if these guys takes Athearns place a the "Ford" of Model Railroading (Nice analogy that) you can pretty much kiss the new upscale Athearn goodbye. Do I want to see this happen? Heck no! But I didn't want to see my favorite manufacturer turn all Franklin mint on me either.

After a 20 year absence from the hobby, I found 2 things that were very disturbing when I got back into the hobby this past Christmas. 

1) The Athearn I grew up with is not the Athearn we have now, it seems that they are always out of stock or backordered. 

2) The extremely high prices we have to pay for locos, rolling stock, and structures. 

I am combatting it all by;

1) purchasing older BB Athearns on ebay,

2) building my own locos out of old shells, home made brass frames or machined Athearn BB frames, and old Athearn trucks,  (so far I have purchased/built around 20-25 locos since Dec. of 07) 

3) I purchased 21 coal cars directly from Con-Cor for 6.44 each, (yes I had to wait for 6 weeks for the next batch, but heck they were $6.44 each) 

4) I will be scratch building all of my structures using the Modelbuilder suite I have. 

These are just some of the ways I had to re-adjust and become more resourceful with my money and the hobby. 

Yes I complained at first but complaining wasn't getting the layout built.

 

 

 

 

Highhood,Again facts will prove other wise..Why else would runs be sold out if nobody is buying Athearn?

As far as a "Athearn glee club" no..You didn't have your facts straight and you heard about the way things are.First you didn't want to accept the links to on line hobby shops that are long time MR and RMC advertisers.Then when several of us pointed out the availability of Athearn we was called a "glee club".

[my05hammer]

Right..and that was actually my original point...I didn't really expect to get waylaid by the local Athearn Glee club

 

"Glee Club" 

I am still laughing.  That was funny. 

You are right, we'll just keep modeling, and we'll have fun doing it.  If Athearn comes around they come around.  If not, well, somebody will pick up the slack. 

The reason I like Athearns is because I can get the Earnst gear reduction kits.  I installed them in every Athearn/clone I have.  In fact the only non Athearn locos I am using are two Walthers F40's and two Model Power E8's.  The rest (GP30's, SD35's, RS3's, SD60's, CF7's, GP7's) are all Athearn powered but NOT Athearns (home built from parts of various manufactures)

 

[highhood63]

 

In other words, slamming

Your'e playing Antics with semantics.

What was that called when Athearn re-ran those SP GP40Xs and just recently the GOtransit Bombardier commuter cars.......hmmm 

 

I'll take an anomaly for 200 Alex. Seriously that's all you have in four years of Horizon ownership? Irv spins in his grave

 

C&NW had GP40Xs??????  The SP sold out right away on the first run. The SP ones on there are re-runs. None of the other schemes have been re-released.

The GP40X IS oddball. Only 23 were built, and it was meant to be an experiment with new technologies that were put into other later locos...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_GP40X 

 

They had 40s..which was more or less the same engine. honestly Athearn could have dropped the X and few would have really noticed the difference.. And quoting Wiki isn't the most solid foundation to build upon.  the Greenbat was an Odball, the 40x was simply a prototype of the 40.

[ham99]

My LHS is a small all-around store [RC, cars, military figures], so train supplies are really a small part of his business.  He regularly stocks Athearn, Roundhouse, Bachmann, Model Power and Walthers in N scale [haven't checked HO].  He doesn't seem to have any problem getting any of them, although he seldom has over 30-40 of each on hand.  He just got a couple dozen new Athearn since Christmas. 

[fwright]

It seems none of us makes decisions at Horizon Hobbies, but all of us know how to run their business better than they do. 

What has been said by Horizon officials:

- When there is suffcient demand (orders from hobby shops), they will do re-runs.  As far as I can tell, this has happened.  Perhaps not as quickly as some would like, but the re-runs have been there.  Compare with a Walters discontinued structure, or other manufacturers.  Very few do re-runs more often than every few years (with Blackstone being the exception I know of).

- Improvements have been made on re-issues of Athearn and Roundhouse.  Without a doubt, this has happened.

As far as Horizon as a distributor servicing their customers - yes, the sale of Athearn and Roundhouse to Horizon forced hobby shops to add Horizon as a distributor to carry these lines that they could formerly get through Walters.  Both Walters and Horizon make it difficult for very small shops or retailers without a brick and mortar site to order from them.  My guess (and it's my guess only) is that very small accounts are more trouble than they are worth.  And neither distributor/manufacturer wants to undercut their primary LHS customers by distributing to etailers and those selling out of basements.  Does Horizon have absolute minimums?  One former hobby shop owner says no, another says yes through a second hand report.

Has Horizon focused on locomotives and neglected the Blue Box line?  Probably yes, to some extent.  Locomotives are high profit/high risk items, and new models have to be continually invested in and released to keep mind and wallet share of today's model railroaders/collectors.  There are far more locomotives owned per model railroader today than decades ago.  And that's where all the buzz is. 

There's not much made of new car releases in HO standard gauge these days.  In comparison, Blackstone and MicroTrains car releases in HOn3 have been hot sellers, and information about coming releases is eagerly sought after.  Which leads me to suspect that the number of cars per model railroader in HO isn't increasing all that much; all the interest is in locomotives.

Couple the decline of interest in cars with the "tiredness" of the former Athearn and Roundhouse car kits.  Way too many of these kits are generic, and without the prototypical accuracy demanded by today's modelers.  Prootype-specific cars being done by other manufacturers have stolen most of the high-end car market.  Finally, tack on the move to RTR instead of kits.  And this was happening even before the buy-outs.  So I'm not surprised to see a decline in BB sales at many LHS.  And without the LHS orders, Horizon sees no point in re-running the models that don't sell.

Which goes back to the original point - Horizon takes its cues about demand from the LHSs that it distributes to.  If you want a model made by Horizon, your LHS has to order/request it.  When enough orders from LHSs come in, the model will be made.

You may not like the Horizon business model.  But in this great country, you are free to compete with your better ideas, and show the rest of us how it should be done.

my thoughts, your choices

Fred W 

[BRAKIE]

Highhood Actually the GP40X was indeed a experimental locomotive that look similar to the GP40/40-2..The GP40X has a flared radiator like the SD45.The only Geep unit so equipped.

[wgnrr]

 

 

They had 40s..which was more or less the same engine. honestly Athearn could have dropped the X and few would have really noticed the difference.. And quoting Wiki isn't the most solid foundation to build upon.  the Greenbat was an Odball, the 40x was simply a prototype of the 40.

The GP40X has flaired radiators and does not look like a GP-40.  The SPa nd UP versions had special type trucks also.  They look more like a short SD45.

Case in point below.    

 http://ncespee.railfan.net/spgp40x/sp7231.html

 

Order #	Date	Model	Road	Numbers	Qty.	Remarks
776008:	06.78	GP40X	ATSF	3800	1	Master
776009:	06.78	GP40X	ATSF	3801	1	Remote
776054:	04.78 to 05.78	GP40X	ATSF	3802-3809	8	.
766066:	06.78	GP40X	SOU	7000-7002	3	High Hood
766016:	02.78	GP40X	SP	7200, 7201, 7230, 7231	4	.
766068:	12.77 to 03.78	GP40X	UP	9000-9005	6	.

 

 

Thanks for explaining this. They are not like GP40s whatsoever. They are longer, too.

This brings up the good ol' GP vs. SD theory...the SD45 was never made in a GP version, such as the GP30 never made in a SD version.

Would a GP40X have looked like the never produced GP45?????????? Ok, back out of my little proto-freelance world.

Phil 

[2-8-8-0]

Ok...they released a High Hood N&W SD40? Uuuugh.....NS bug is coming back...bleh. They wont get the headlights right on the Dash 9s anytime soon anyways.

Still, a high hood SD40 may just have to find a home with me....just cause.

 

[csxns]

My LHS can get and has Athearn comeing out of its ears so i am in good shape when it comes to Athearn ,and all of the HH NS GP40X have been sold and the SP ones are still their,but one will be comeing home with me soon..

[csmith9474]

I just want my FP45s already!! Early April????

[my05hammer]

I just want my FP45s already!! Early April????

  I have a BB Amtrak FP45 for sale!!  LOL!!  Its only one though not a set etc.

 

 

[csmith9474]

I just want my FP45s already!! Early April????

  I have a BB Amtrak FP45 for sale!!  LOL!!  Its only one though not a set etc.

 

 

I think I saw it here, but I heard something to the effect that there was a manufacturing problem (QA?!?!?!?!?!) and they had to ship them back over to China or something like that. I have a Super Chief/El Cap with no power right now. That is a lot of angry passengers!!!!

[Autobus Prime]

Point being a fraction of my purchases are Athearn, how many other consumers are following in our footsteps?  A lot more than are buying Athearn I'll betcha, in the mean time I just found out that surprise, surprise that both Walthers and Atlas is ramping up to produce more mid to late 20^th century motive power, if these guys takes Athearns place a the "Ford" of Model Railroading (Nice analogy that) you can pretty much kiss the new upscale Athearn goodbye. Do I want to see this happen? Heck no! But I didn't want to see my favorite manufacturer turn all Franklin mint on me either.

hh63:

Another Ford will certainly take their place if they abandon it, but they won't necessarily go away...who knows, they may become a successful Lincoln or Cadillac, if that's what Horizon is trying to do.  Still, I have to say that there are already a lot of Cadillacs, so while they may succeed, and no goodbyes would be in order, they wouldn't be unique any more, FWTW. 

Is this a good idea? Well, Horizon thinks it's a good idea, and I suppose they know their business more than I do.  But I always assumed GM knew their business more than I did, even when, a few years back, they were letting their very successful bread-and-butter cars "coast", being sure that the future lay in filling a hundred tiny niche markets and selling big-buck luxury trucks.  Meanwhile, some competitors were working on their bread-and-butter cars.  Ooooops.

But maybe Horizon won't drop one and keep the other.  Maybe they *will* manage to succeed even while having multiple personalities.  Life-Like did something like that for the last 15 years.

My own feelings are mixed.  Some Athearn cars are kind of odd and unfortunately ubiquitous.  The single-dome tank is an ugly duckling with no corresponding swan.  The boxcar claws are strange, and seemingly not necessary for opening doors (which I do like to have).  But, like the model T, they were cheap, rugged, and very reliable, and that's something I would miss if we didn't have it.

I think I saw it here, but I heard something to the effect that there was a manufacturing problem (QA?!?!?!?!?!) and they had to ship them back over to China or something like that. I have a Super Chief/El Cap with no power right now. That is a lot of angry passengers!!!!

cs:

Aw, the diseasel is a no-show.  Better get some steam for protection power.

 

[leejax01]

I too agree about the Athearn pricing as being quite high for it's level of craftmanship. At our lhs, the new RTR's are $70 plus(SD40-2 etc) and when I compare them to the Atlas Silver or Master Series with manned interiors,better motor/drive and MU hoses a little over 20 dollars more, I tend not to buy RTR's. Only real way that I buy a RTR is if no one else(Atlas,BLI,Kato,P2K) offers that type loco. Not counting that you can get a better loco at a better price on Ebay, that further keeps me from buying RTR.

 Now in all fairness, I believe the Genesis line is on par with the other lines and if Athearn offered a better motor to go with their newer RTR's, I would probably buy more, but why work/tweek on a motor or re-motor a $70 plus loco? If RTR is supposed to be middle of the road in value, then I think that the prices are too high. Maybe that is why they are getting harder to find. Detailing on a RTR isn't to my expectation when the walkways are smooth and the GP40-2's seems to be re-boxed BB's with their lighted cab. They are priced less, but why waste time on a fading design?

[dinwitty]

What are these manufacturers thinking? This is a builder's hobby, but granted Mr Average Public isn't skilled, or is that the trend in today's world, everybody is just buy it off the shelf and its done? Every layout will be exactly the same if that were true. Sooorrrryyyy, we're back to the toy train business, just with higher quality. A layout is a designed and sometimes personal and that delight of building something cool thet YOU did.

 

[fwright]

What are these manufacturers thinking? This is a builder's hobby, but granted Mr Average Public isn't skilled, or is that the trend in today's world, everybody is just buy it off the shelf and its done? Every layout will be exactly the same if that were true. Sooorrrryyyy, we're back to the toy train business, just with higher quality. A layout is a designed and sometimes personal and that delight of building something cool thet YOU did.

The manufacturers are thinking what their sales and experience show them.  Look at how locomotives sales have expanded with the acceptance of RTR by the mainstream.  There are many model railroaders/collectors with more than 20 locomotives.  If the only way to obtain locomotives was to build kits, how many of us would have more than 20 locomotives?  I guarantee the number would be a lot less.

It still may be a builders hobby for some of us, but not for the majority.  Another benefit of the RTR trend besides the expanded locomotive market is the huge increase in the number of layouts larger than 4x8 reaching a reasonable completion level, thereby expanding the market for all model railroad supplies.  Thanks to RTR, a room-sized layout completed to the point of mostly scenicked and operational, 20 locomotives, and 50 cars is achieveable in 1-3 years (provided you have enough money).  DCC has all but eliminated control panels and simplified wiring.  But when you had to build your locomotives, cars, structures, turnouts, and control panels from parts or kits, getting a room-sized layout to an operational state with some scenery was a 5-10 year endeavor.

Agree with you - it's not much different than the toy train business where everything is RTR, and often collected rather than operated.  Just a huge increase in level of detail and realism.

There are still plenty of craftsman kits available - you just don't see them advertised in Model Railroader.  And they are usually gathering dust in the back corners of the better LHSs, and not even present at all in the not-so-better LHSs. 

just my thoughts

Fred W 

[Anonymous]

Well, I find RTR a convience.

That big water tower from Walthers was such a time saver. In a box, take it out and put it on the railroad.

Dont tell anyone but it is store bought. The industry it sits near has been on my workbench for about 6 weeks with daily trials and tribulations along with bit of blood and invention to be completed. That building kit did have a water tower kit. But now it is a candidate for a flatcar load of girders and what not. I sure as heck wasnt gonna wrestle with cabling, beams and round objects that never quite square when gluing. No sir.

One store in Mabelvale is full of Athearn kits and some rtr. To me, I think Athearn is doing quite well.

Oh by the way it's the high end Engines with DCC and sound (QSI etc) that dropped in pricing while the genesis has held steady over the years.

Im looking at a diner right now on ebay that appears to be well done and might find a home on my town. Is it store bought? No. Is it someone else's work building and detailing? Yes. Do I think it is worth the asking price? Maybe.

I enjoy rewarding fellow modelers who do good work by an occasional purchase on ebay. Sometimes I have had to tear it down and rebuild it after it suffers extensive damage in shipping. Boy buster brown is getting quite bad with his crushing emphasis on ontime delivery.

I have said before in the past, I can take a BB Boxcar, outfit it with Proto Wheels, 148 whisker couplers and finish it properly. The unit cost of this car approaches but does not exceed a RTR that needs to have it's plastic couplers thrown away and the stamped cheep metal wheels replaced.

[aloco]

I don't know if it's from really bad management, or if Horizon is just into the Collectable craze, but lately it's getting hard to find old Athearn standards that use to be Readily available.

Methinks you are lamenting the passing of the old blue box days.  I don't miss them one bit.  If anything, Athearn stuff has gotten better, especially when it comes to choice of road names and paint schemes.  Back in the old blue box days (1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s) the selection was quite limited.  

I scooped up all the blue box stuff I could find in my favourite road names, and a good chunk of what I have is custom painted stuff (Bev-Bel, CM Shops, etc.) in road names and paint schemes that Athearn never offered. 

[highhood63]

Not really...Honestly if they would replace some of the BB kits I was looking for with the RTR version (Like those Nifty NW 50' box cars I picked up at the Train show) I would e a happy puppy.  It's totally a supply and demand/price issue with me. :)

 

 

I don't know if it's from really bad management, or if Horizon is just into the Collectable craze, but lately it's getting hard to find old Athearn standards that use to be Readily available.

Methinks you are lamenting the passing of the old blue box days.  I don't miss them one bit.  If anything, Athearn stuff has gotten better, especially when it comes to choice of road names and paint schemes.  Back in the old blue box days (1970s, 1980s, and early 1990s) the selection was quite limited.  

I scooped up all the blue box stuff I could find in my favourite road names, and a good chunk of what I have is custom painted stuff (Bev-Bel, CM Shops, etc.) in road names and paint schemes that Athearn never offered. 

[BRAKIE]

Me thinks everybody is forgetting the Athearn RTR is reasonably price at discount.Also one can't compare a high end(and higher price) locomotive to a economy line locomotive-kinda like comparing a Focus to a Caddy or any luxury car..

Let's face the truth..Many modeler can't afford the more expensive locomotives and cars even at discount.Some times one can buy 2 Athearn at discount for 1 Atlas/Kato/P2K locomotive at discount...

 

Ever wonder why Atlas started the low end Trainman line or why there is a P1K line? That should speak volumes.Even Branchline has low end cars..Their Yardmaster Series.

[MisterBeasley]

I haven't bought an Athearn engine for over 40 years, and from what I've read here, I'll probably go for 50.  The MRC decoders they are using have gotten a bad reputation, so why bother when other manufacturers are including better decoders for about the same price?

Likewise, the rolling stock comes with plastic couplers.  Each Athearn car has the added cost of a pair of Kadees to make it layout-worthy.

Still, I'm looking forward to the Checker Marathon taxis when they come out, and I've picked up a few of the Athearn autos already.  Compared with the new Atlas ones, they're a bargain.  And they don't need replacement couplers or decoders, either.

[CNJ831]

What are these manufacturers thinking? This is a builder's hobby, but granted Mr Average Public isn't skilled, or is that the trend in today's world, everybody is just buy it off the shelf and its done? Every layout will be exactly the same if that were true. Sooorrrryyyy, we're back to the toy train business, just with higher quality. A layout is a designed and sometimes personal and that delight of building something cool thet YOU did.

The manufacturers are thinking what their sales and experience show them.  Look at how locomotives sales have expanded with the acceptance of RTR by the mainstream.  There are many model railroaders/collectors with more than 20 locomotives.  If the only way to obtain locomotives was to build kits, how many of us would have more than 20 locomotives?  I guarantee the number would be a lot less.

It still may be a builders hobby for some of us, but not for the majority.  Another benefit of the RTR trend besides the expanded locomotive market is the huge increase in the number of layouts larger than 4x8 reaching a reasonable completion level, thereby expanding the market for all model railroad supplies.  Thanks to RTR, a room-sized layout completed to the point of mostly scenicked and operational, 20 locomotives, and 50 cars is achieveable in 1-3 years (provided you have enough money).  DCC has all but eliminated control panels and simplified wiring.  But when you had to build your locomotives, cars, structures, turnouts, and control panels from parts or kits, getting a room-sized layout to an operational state with some scenery was a 5-10 year endeavor.

There are still plenty of craftsman kits available - you just don't see them advertised in Model Railroader.  And they are usually gathering dust in the back corners of the better LHSs, and not even present at all in the not-so-better LHSs. 

This is where so many posters on this forum get it wrong, simply because they believe this site is representative of the hobby at large, instead of the reality of its being comprised mainly of casual modelers and hobby newbies. The more serious and skilled hobbyists, whose numbers are very considerable, are most definitely still mainly builders of one form or another, except perhaps in the case of locomotives (which they continue to super-detail and customize). Very little in the way of RTR items of any type are of broad interest in their circles. If you doubt the above, just visit some of the more serious model railroading sites and see for yourself. Compare the WPF layouts seen here with what you see displayed weekly on many other sites. I think most will be shocked by what they see and the amount of high quality scratch/kit-building more accomplished modelers are doing today...and reflected in their outstanding pikes.

What has indeed changed, is that the dedicated model railroaders have, to a considerable extent, left the general marketplace and now deal directly with the smaller, advanced kit manufacturers, often through their websites and SIG forums. Many of their products are sold out well in advance of ever appearing and some of the kits are even designed by the creative members of the groups. This area of the hobby must be profitable, as new laser structure kit and custom product companies have been appearing right and left lately. You certainly can't say that for large mainstream companies. And you won't see many of the craftsman-oriented companies placing significant ads in the MR, simply because they know that their intended clientele pretty much aren't there any longer.

I'd have to say that the general marketplace today is mainly the province of beginners and those at a more "popular-level" of model railroading. These same folks do seem to have the ready cash and the willingness to spend it on buying upscale, RTR models. Observe how the introduction of some new RTR model raises such an entusiastic torrent of posts on this forum. Typically, that same item won't produce a ripple on the more advanced sites, simply because they are populated by serious hobby craftsmen, not buyers of RTR. Truthfully, there are pretty much two different hobbies involved here: popular model railroading and the traditional, advanced, craftsmen-level, hobby. It's just that today one takes little notice of, nor often even seems to appreciate the existence of, the other.

CNJ831   

 

[BRAKIE]

Mr.Beasley wrote:

Likewise, the rolling stock comes with plastic couplers.  Each Athearn car has the added cost of a pair of Kadees to make it layout-worthy.

------------------------------------------

While that is true you may want to look at the other manufacturers cars as well.Atlas's $30.00 cars come with plastic couplers as well as does Walthers and other like brands.Those crappy plastic couplers just replace those X2F couplers that came with the majority of the cars.

Sadly there is still a need to toss useless couplers and replace 'em with KDs just like we did with those old X2Fs not so long ago.

 

 

[BRAKIE]

CNJ831,I know several advance modelers that uses RTR items..Some even goes as far as assembling Craftman style kits.

However,with todays "time sensitive hobby"(what ever the hey that means) Craftsman and super detailers are getting scarce if what we read on some forums is true.Some "don't have time" to add a simple aftermarket detail part or minor road specific detail and whines because it missing from a model.If that's what you call "The more serious and skilled hobbyists" I will stay a causual.

Also I would say the majority of the hobbyist are casuals and far from "serious and skilled hobbyists" you claim to be the majority judging from the local clubs,talking to modelers trackside,at train shows etc(some of us are active in the people side of the hobby) and looking at the pictures in the weekly photo fun on this and other forums..

Either way we can agree that locomotive details are fantastic but,that had to come to pass.Even the upgraded Bachmann locomotives looks better then their older train set  siblings.

[Autobus Prime]

What are these manufacturers thinking? This is a builder's hobby, but granted Mr Average Public isn't skilled, or is that the trend in today's world, everybody is just buy it off the shelf and its done?

The manufacturers are thinking what their sales and experience show them.  Look at how locomotives sales have expanded with the acceptance of RTR by the mainstream.  There are many model railroaders/collectors with more than 20 locomotives.  If the only way to obtain locomotives was to build kits, how many of us would have more than 20 locomotives? 

Honestly, I doubt most of us could use 20.  I have come to believe that 5 steamers or perhaps 10 diseasels (which have to run MU to equal the AWESOME of one teakettle) of good-running, good-looking locos would be my perfect personal roster. Of course, this is entirely a thought experiment, as even now I don't follow this rule, but I do have two engines that do 90% of the work. 

As for the RTR bit, there really has never been a time when the only source was kits, because before scale RTR really began to be popular (in the space-age 1950s) its place was filled by converted and semi-scale tinplate.  Everybody had Gilbert HO Hudsons.  But even with kit and scratchbuilt locos, model railroaders have been gathering more locos they can use since probably 1930. :) 

It still may be a builders hobby for some of us, but not for the majority.  Another benefit of the RTR trend besides the expanded locomotive market is the huge increase in the number of layouts larger than 4x8 reaching a reasonable completion level, thereby expanding the market for all model railroad supplies.  Thanks to RTR, a room-sized layout completed to the point of mostly scenicked and operational, 20 locomotives, and 50 cars is achieveable in 1-3 years (provided you have enough money).  DCC has all but eliminated control panels and simplified wiring.  But when you had to build your locomotives, cars, structures, turnouts, and control panels from parts or kits, getting a room-sized layout to an operational state with some scenery was a 5-10 year endeavor.

There are still plenty of craftsman kits available - you just don't see them advertised in Model Railroader.  And they are usually gathering dust in the back corners of the better LHSs, and not even present at all in the not-so-better LHSs. 

This is where so many posters on this forum get it wrong, simply because they believe this site is representative of the hobby at large, instead of the reality of its being comprised mainly of casual modelers and hobby newbies. The more serious and skilled hobbyists, whose numbers are very considerable, are most definitely still mainly builders of one form or another, except perhaps in the case of locomotives (which they continue to super-detail and customize)...

Truthfully, there are pretty much two different hobbies involved here: popular model railroading and the traditional, advanced, craftsmen-level, hobby. It's just that today one takes little notice of, nor often even seems to appreciate the existence of, the other.

CNJ:

Also, perhaps, builders tend to buy less, and don't really talk about their build-related purchases as they can feel lacking a certain something. I HAZ STRIPWOOD YAY!1!! (As much as it pleases me personally to find a good source of said staple...)

Really, I don't understand it when I see people claim that Mr. Average Public isn't skilled, and doesn't want to build.  People are building decks and garages all the time, and tinkering with old cars, and really our stuff isn't much different, just smaller.  I think some of the simpler and more accessible techniques could stand a little more exposure, for those who haven't yet discovered the value of reading those old magazines.

(Please don't go discovering that value *too* much, folks, I want them to stay cheap for me.)

[ESlade4]

For me the lack of stock is all about the blue box. Athearn is doing good things with their RTR line just like a lot of other manufacturers, that's fine, it's also not the point. It's about the blue box. I just got back into model railroading after a 20 year hiatus. BB kits give me a cheap way to build or rebuild skills that I don't currently have. It gives me a quick, cheap way to work on those skills or help my stepson or someone else see if they like modeling. It doesn't take a lot of time or money and they are easy enough to be a good confidence builder. They are cheap cars to experiment on doing things like weathering or kitbashing that I need to work on.

Today firsthobby had 3 blue box loco's in all road names. Several of their blue box freight car catagories had zero cars. The best selection was in cabeese and box cars 20 cars in each catagory in ALL roadnames in ALL types of cars in those catagories. There was alot more selection a year ago. If you hit the link to blue box kits on Athearns website today it gives a list of the most popular selling kits no production schedule. Presumably they are still making them, but the way their stock is going down I'm not gonna bet on that.

Can I find other ways to do what I want? Yes. Am I going to lament the demise of the blue box if it happens? Yes. Is it going to increase my RTR buying? No. I can and will find other ways to do what I want. I'll buy the RTR cars that are precisely what I'm looking for from whatever manufacturer builds them (including Athearn). I'll find another kit manufacturer for quick and easy kits if I can or use cheap buildings instead. I like building cars, it's what is fun for me and finding cheap BB kits looks like it's going away. Fine. That just made the hobby a little less fun. I'll still do it, I hope I'm wrong about how long Athearn is gonna stay with the blue box. But I do not like the handwritting on the wall.

[armchair]

 I am kinda tired of this Reserve Now mentality the man.s  have developed. A look at the economy and I can understand their reasoning though. Supply & Demand ? Sounds like HD. Motor Co.'s attitude to me. Let's not single out only 1 manufacturer, Atlas locos seem to go quickly too. It's feeding time,let the frenzy begin.