HO vs. N

[grayfox1119]

Ahhhh, the ageless argument.........HO vs N.  The answer is quite simple grasshopper.

1. Eyes ( At age 5 to 45, no problem, and age >45, increasingly difficult to work with N until at age 90+ you can't see the tracks. )
2. Manual dexterity ( ability to use big hands on small parts with arthretic fingers )
3. Space  ( you can fit more "N" in a given space )
4. Cost ( N cost less on average that HO )

[navygunner]

Packers#1

Do you get paid by the number of times you mention Atlas?

Hmmm., curmudgeon or Altas hater?

I appologize for singling you out, but when we go to the internet for advice, we are opening ourselves up as human beings.  We are asking for help, that's what makes us human.  We try to learn.  In N Scale we help our fellow man.  Nastiness, whether intended or not is called to the carpet.  We are a community trying to share ideas and concepts, not a bunch of anonymous thugs.  The ADULT thing to do is to appologize for being uncivil.

If you think the posts are inane, ignore them.  That's what I do.

Bob

  Sometimes "buy Atlas!" is not the answer.  I'm sorry if I come across as rude, it's just that every thread involving any manufacturer is met with "buy Atlas"!  Even if it involves steam locos.  Sorry for being a curmudgeon.

I have to agree with you in part, Atlas puts out locomotives every month; the other 5 players in the N Scale market at quite a slower pace.  The fact that Atlas does not put out total crap most of the time tends to color some of my perceptions.  The other manufactures are capable of producing quality models, but due to their own choices happen to issue stuff at a slower pace.  That colors my perceptions and perhaps others.  This is from an N Scale point of view.  I am not familiar with the state of the HO Scale market.

Bob

PS.  I have to commend you on your conduct in the forum.  You have clarified an otherwise negative post into a reasonable point of discusion.  I would not be willing to lable you a curmudgeon.

[wm3798]

If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.

Lee 

[pcarrell]

If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.

Lee 

Maybe true, unless you model steam, and then Atlas has only one choice on the hobby store shelves right now.  My N scale layout is set in the 1920's.  I don't own a single Atlas loco since the only one they offer is from a time period too early for me (but don't think I haven't been tempted to make up a plausable story......).

[Autobus Prime]

Folks:

It all depends on the space available.  You can always put more Stuff in with a smaller scale, but that doesn't mean the smaller scales are always best, or nobody would use O.

There was a time when O was the smallest scale.  There was a time when HO was the smallest, and you could easily transplant any of our HO vs. N arguments to the 1930s or even 1940s, simply replacing scale-letters.  The religious fervor was just as strong. 

Occasionally we get a "shudabin" with regard to an S/TT/probably Z system, just like the shudabins we get with 220v 400Hz house current...but like other shudabins, they're ultimately didnabins, and it worked out another way.

HO is, for me, a good compromise between size and fiddliness.  We do still understand compromise, yes? :D

[IRONROOSTER]

I always love these discussions - you'd think there were only 2 scales available.  Well after trying HO, O, N, and G, I find that S is the perfect compromise between large enough to see and work with and small enough to have a layout. 

Enjoy

Paul 

[Dave Vollmer]

If I were a millionaire and I had a warehouse, I'd do the 4-track PRR Middle Division in G scale, with none of the short turnouts and sharp curves.  Full G.

Sweeeeeeeeeet...

But since I have neither suitcases full of cash nor tens of thousands of square feet, I'll have to do the PRR in N.

[Geared Steam]

Sheesh.  No room for humor...

Sorry Dave, it wasn't intentional, me leaving off the smiley, cut and paste , oh well, no worries.

Have fun

 

 

 

[pcarrell]

I always love these discussions - you'd think there were only 2 scales available.  Well after trying HO, O, N, and G, I find that S is the perfect compromise between large enough to see and work with and small enough to have a layout. 

Enjoy

Paul 

I'm a big fan of other scales, but the OP, and the title of the thread, kinda defined the topics of discussion to the two scales.

[shawnee]

If I had it to do over again, and didn't have a major investment on my hands already with HO, I'd probably go N.  You can just get more railroad into a smaller space.  I think the adage that was quoted about modeling a train vs. modeling a railroad, because of the size/space issue, has merit.  I still love my HO layout however. 

I do like HO for it's increased amount of detail in everything.  And I think it's more "graspable" for my kids.  But N scale allows you to have more accurately sized industry, spectacular scenery, run long trains and have plenty of space in between scenic or operational elements.

Actually I've noticed that there are seemingly a huge variety of cool structures available in N, so availability isn't an issue there...seems to me.  Vehicles, however...just keep 'em off the layout i guess, from what I can tell the selection is suspect.  Not that you build a model railroad to highlight vehicles.  And maybe being freed from having to model so much detail...detail not practical, attainable or noticeable in N...not worrying about some "small stuff",can be a liberating thing?  Just guessing.

[Geared Steam]

I personally would never go back to N, but if I was to do a scale change, it would be to On30. The modeling (details) are there, and a good numbers of nice locos now available have really caught my eye. But again, I like Shays, Climax, Porters, logging/mining shortline railroading, so the scale itself fits my interests.

Again as many others have already said, you should first review what you want to model, and what details you want, then look for available models, RTR, kitbash or Kit availability for the model, space available and hopefully you can choose your scale.

MHO 

[jimk]

I model in Z, HO, and G.  I like the Z because you can make the scenery so much larger than the trains.  HO is great because it is middle of the road, the trains are big enough to be promenint, but small enough to be manageable, and G because the trains dominate everthing around it.  Also, I think I am going to start a garden railroad this year.

When I go to a train show, I enjoy looking at all of them now, from Z up to whatever the biggest thing they have is.  Before, I only enjoyed the HO trains.

 It all comes down to, what do you want from your layout?  Huge trains that dominate the view, or scenery and great awe inspiring vistas that dominate the view?

Jim 

[loathar]

I think maybe the OP needs to supply some more info so that we can assume less?

The OP abandoned this thread about 4 pages ago...

[Packers#1]

Packers#1

Do you get paid by the number of times you mention Atlas?

No, I just love Atlas models. They run excellent.

[Packers#1]

If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.

Lee 

That is the 110% absolute truth.

[pcarrell]

If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.

Lee 

That is the 110% absolute truth.

Once again, not so much if you model steam.

[wm3798]

They do offer a growing range of steam era freight cars, though, and if you're modeling the transition era, they have a wide variety of first generation diesels, including Baldwins and Alco's...

Sprinkle them into your fleet with some Bachmann Spectrum steam and you can populate a 12x8 layout pretty nicely...

Lee 

[tgindy]

I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.

It is a matter of perspective.  Instead of looking at things from fitting more into a given area - Turn that idea around and take the layout from 8x12 to 4x6:

1st, plan a layout in N Scale.

2nd, cut back the same operations by apx. 50%, and you'll have a layout in HO Scale.

[da_kraut]

Hi,

great question, one that I struggled with only about 4 years ago.  There is really not much to add to the statements made here.  The one thing that I noticed over the last number of years going to private layouts, clubs, and shows is the reliability.  The models in N as well as HO are totally reliable from the main manufacturers.  The big question is the track work.  It seems to me that the N scale equipment is a lot more picky.  This is to no surprise because the smaller the scale the bigger the effect if something is out by 1/64 of an inch.  

As for the size and ability to handle N scale VS HO scale, there was a wonderful gentleman which said that N scale is the way to go.  His arguement was that one can take a Big Boy in N scale in one hand and place it on the ramp for put trains on the track.  This is impossible to do in HO because the Big Boy requires both hands to lift it due to its length.  

Go with what you feel most comfortable with.  Remember these two rules:

Rule 1 - This is my railroad and I do as I please.

Rule 2 - If you have any objections to what is being done here refer to rule #1.

Frank 

[Packers#1]

I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.

It is a matter of perspective.  Instead of looking at things from fitting more into a given area - Turn that idea around and take the layout from 8x12 to 4x6:

1st, plan a layout in N Scale.

2nd, cut back the same operations by apx. 50%, and you'll have a layout in HO Scale.

I planned his layout.

[Packers#1]

If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.

Lee 

That is the 110% absolute truth.

Once again, not so much if you model steam.

Modern Day here. Locos from the GP-9 to SD60.

[on30francisco]

I personally would never go back to N, but if I was to do a scale change, it would be to On30. The modeling (details) are there, and a good numbers of nice locos now available have really caught my eye. But again, I like Shays, Climax, Porters, logging/mining shortline railroading, so the scale itself fits my interests.

Again as many others have already said, you should first review what you want to model, and what details you want, then look for available models, RTR, kitbash or Kit availability for the model, space available and hopefully you can choose your scale.

MHO 

I have tried N and HO in the past and found both of them too small for my interests. I too like Shays, Climaxes, Porters, logging/mining and other shortline railroading and N scale is definitely lacking when it comes to most steamers and backwoodsy railroads. I still do a little On30 (those Bachmann locos are beauties) but got hooked on G scale narrow gauge indoors. I like large scale models of small prototypes, super details, reliable running and G and On30 are just the ticket.

[Red Horse]

I had this problem when I desided to start this hobby just a short while ago, I mean a SHORT while ago, I haven't even finished enough of my first layout to start running my trains.

I went to a local hooby shop (30 miles away) hey. I live in the woods on a mountain what can I say!

I went in and introduced myself and asked if I could see examples of all scales, when I held an N scale locomotive in my hand, a few images shot through my mind....

1) I have a dog that likes to put things in her mouth...hummmm!

2) I have two grandchildren that like to do what the dog does....Hummm!

3) If something breaks I like to try and fix it myself, where in the world was I going to find a tool kit and tool box that small....Kebler Elves maybe?

4) I wanted something that I could see if I dropped it on the carpet......LOL!' I'm going to get a flogging for that comment....LOL!

It is all personal choice and mine was made when I held the different sizes in my hand and thought about what I wanted out of layout, I had to settle for HO because my Wife didn't want a real train on the property so HO was a compromise between me and the Mrs.

What ever you deside, make it YOUR choice so that you can live with your choice and not let the blame fall on others....LOL, I'm in sooooooo much trouble.

Bye!

Sign me, a new bee with old stuff!!!

[Packer]

Modern Day here. Locos from the GP-9 to SD60.

How do you define modern?  The past 60 years?

David B

 Lots of RR's use older locos (like the Gp9s) for swithching duties. On my Model RR, they are my swichers, SD9s are my road switchers, GP30s are my road diesels.

[Packers#1]

Modern Day here. Locos from the GP-9 to SD60.

How do you define modern?  The past 60 years?

David B

I should have said that I like using old diesels with modern cars.

[dinwitty]

I have decide that I am going to use N scale but if people can give me a reason that I sould use HO scale give me some good reason I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.

If you like running Challengers even N scale may not work for you in an 8X12 space. It seems to me you are going to have to consider some type of short line with small locos or use a lot of view blocks and staging. How about narrow gauge?

Peter Smith, Memphis

what if he kept the bigger locos to the main and utilized smaller ones for switching/tighter radii?

Hey, guys!  John Armstrong demonstrated that it's possible to run a DM&IR 2-8-8-4 in 4 x 8 - in HO scale.  ("The Mighty Bantam," The Classic Layout Designs of John Armstrong, Kalpubco.)  Given that, running a less powerful locomotive on a layout with three times the available area in a scale only 55% the size shouldn't be that much of a challenge.

View blocks and staging are the way to go.  The rest is dealt with by the following quotation from a science fiction character of my acquaintance:

"I define, 'impossible' as, 'I haven't done that yet.'"

If anyone, anywhere, has done it, it sure as taxes IS possible.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a space of equivalent size)

 

Well, my akane DM&IR 2-8-8-4 doesnt like 22" radius very well, I have to go over the engine and make sure its operationally sound, its practically a never run engine brand new so it needs running in loosening up. Its bearings are tight and need running to open them up a tad.

That I wont do on anything but 24" or wider if I can help it and I am progressing on my layout now to make a loop to do just that.

 

My Rivarrosi 2-8-8-2 and Spectrum 2-6-6-2 and BLI 2-6-6-4 all like 22", but they're a different animal with the rear drivers jointed for sharper curves.

I have too much in HO invested to go N now especially for what available. N had a late start in the hobby just like Z scale so theres some limitation on availability. There were some N scale North Shore cars made dunno about the South Shore but HO is still the better selection.

There is enough in N I could do what I am doing now in some degree but too late for that to make a switch and toooo much work to do that.

 

[Jimmydieselfan]

I would go N Scale just for the reason that a Challenger needs room to stretch out and that ain't happening in HO with a 24'' radius curve. Now that same curve in N looks ten times better.Plus it don't get so crowded looking with N. The answer to your question is N.

[wm3798]

But in N scale it's a matter of choice, not necessity...

Lee 

[SpaceMouse]

But in N scale it's a matter of choice, not necessity...

Lee 

It's a matter of choice in any scale.

[jeffers_mz]

I could have SO much fun in this thread, but since it's gone five pages without major combat operations, I guess I will refrain. (Bookmarked for future jefferz defense exhibit #1.)