I guess I've always rooted for the underdog... I look at HO as being far less challenging. You can buy pretty much anything off the rack, so it doesn't take much skill or imagination to work in HO. That's not to say there aren't some masters working in that medium, I'm just saying that it's easy enough for a lot of average guys to work with.
N scale requires more of a pioneer's mentality, at least it did in the early days. You have to figure out how to make do with what's available, and to scratch or bash out what isn't. Today's N scale is miles ahead of where it was even 10 years ago, so some of that challenge is fading, but still, I find it unbeatable as an outlet for my creative side as I fiddle with details, tinker with drives, and generally work on my layout and operate it.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
wm3798 wrote: railroadnut675 wrote: While both are readily available HO seems more popular. Also, it's going to be a trying to fit snapped couplers and small stuff back on. My"More Popular"... So if everyone else is jumping off a bridge... I've been using Micro Train couplers going on 20 years. I think I've broken 5 couplers. Working in N scale is like anything else. It can be difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty smoothly.Lee
railroadnut675 wrote: While both are readily available HO seems more popular. Also, it's going to be a trying to fit snapped couplers and small stuff back on. My
While both are readily available HO seems more popular. Also, it's going to be a trying to fit snapped couplers and small stuff back on.
My
"More Popular"... So if everyone else is jumping off a bridge...
I've been using Micro Train couplers going on 20 years. I think I've broken 5 couplers. Working in N scale is like anything else. It can be difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it, it goes pretty smoothly.
I only meant what is more popular is probably more readily available
RRTrainman wrote:I'm a old fashion HO'er, It all depends on how which you want to model. You can basicly get twice the railroad in N gauge verses HO but with HO you can get a finer detail than that you can get in "N". it's your choice.
thats one of the best replys ever. im old enough to have recieved an o-27 lionel set in the early 60s. ho in 1967 (i think). loved that mantua pennsy f7 set. then came postage stamp trains. still have it. got out for years but never could forget model trains. see sawed back and forth for years on ho and n but never did much. the truth is i like both. now i have a shelf layout around the wall 12 x 10 plus so the trains can go somewhere. i have both scales, but mainly n. i like n the best for some reason i cant explain. its just like the size of them and the way they look on a 20 inch curve. i will run 50-60 plus cars also if i choose. but...thats what i like.....big curves and long trains. i have ho flashbacks some and get it out with some flex and it looks huge to me. probably 15 cars max. ho would sure be alot easier to work with my 47 year old body though, not to mention availability. to me, its how big the room is you have to work with. i have been to train shows and seen a huge n modular setup that looked good with modern trains. then the owner put a 2-8-0 and some of that era box cars in tow it looked out of place to me. in my opinion, that train was too small for its surroundings. my opionion only and i could very easily be wrong........it aaaaaaalllllllllllll good......
4x8 are fun too!!! RussellRail
Ok, first off hello everyone! I have been an avid reader of these forums for several months. I make it a point to check out the hottest topic in the forum whenever I get my e-mail from Model Railoader. I find most of the comments interesting and often very informative.
As a child my father and I were into HO. We started with the obligatory 4x8 which soon was expanded, which, we soon outgrew. We then had a layout similiar in size to the one being discussed. High school cars, girls, college, marriage, all pushed me out of the hobby. At the age of 25 I bought a Model Railorader to "check up on the hobby". Well, as you all can imgaine I was hooked again. The difference this time was I decided to go with N-scale. I liked the small size and the ability to build a small layout and run in my small apartment (for some reaon my wife would not let me take over the spare bedroom!). I started making regular trips to the Belmont Shores Model Train club which I joined. There really is nothing like running a 50-100 car train and having it take almost an hour to leave my departure yard and make the round trip.
Since I can't do that in my house (for some reason my wife will not let me take over the entire living room), I decided to build try building my own N-scale layout at home. You know the old 4 x 8 (now that sound like another topic for this place, pros and cons of a 4 x 8...). Long sotry short, the ability to fit a lot operational potential into a smaller space was just too good to pass up. I still love HO (and still have half of my father and my collection) but N-scale has me hooked. Now I am 33 when eye sight and hand coordination becomes an issue...hello O-scale, or maybe hello garden railroad!
I hope to post more now that I took my first step. I am sure I will have lots of questions as I attempt to build my first model railroad alone.
If I could start over I'd do it all in N. Long trains, broad curves, tall scenery, big yards, 2 turntables and roundhouses. I can see it all now but the time has come to put the dream away and finish that 2x6 upper section and then my wonderful 16' x 24' layout will be done and I can put down roadbed and track and run trains. I am in HO scale and haven't regretted it. I like to be able to pick up the engines and cars and hold them instead of cradling them in my hands. It's nice to "see" them too. Have fun and enjoy.
Archie
12' x 8"? I'd love a space eight times bigger than my 12' x 1' HO shelf layout. I get plenty of fun switching on that; a GP 9 or 18 with half a dozen 40' box cars looks just fine.
Too many folk try to cram too much track into a small space which, unless you're planning to model a yard, looks quite unrealistic. Give your tracks plenty of room - short locals in HO will look great in the room you have. Sharp curves can be disguised in many ways.
Yes, given the room I have available N might have been better, but for me N scale models simply don't have enough bulk to convey the feeling of what in real life are massive machines.
Compare N and HO models of the same loco side by side and you'll see what I mean.
Ian
Dave Vollmer wrote:As has been pointed out, the OP appears to be long-gone...Either he's driven on and lost interest, or he's just enjoying our banter from the sidelines....Anybody see the OP lately?
As has been pointed out, the OP appears to be long-gone...
Either he's driven on and lost interest, or he's just enjoying our banter from the sidelines.
Anybody see the OP lately?
Yeah, he's over in the corner checking out the American Flyer.
Enjoy
Paul
Good netiquette suggests that when one starts a thread that goes 5 pages, one really ought to check in from time to time to either comment on the suggestions or thank folks for their input.
In the end, scale, like prototype, is a personal choice. Some of us actually switch scales well into our hobby careers even after we have much invested in our previous scale, but that's often due to extenuating circumstances (such as in my case). Most modelers, however, are pretty well entrenched in their primary choice of scales (even if they do dabble in other scales). I don't think anyone here is suggesting all HO-scalers should abandon HO for N, or vice-versa. Such would be very wasteful and unnecessary.
But new folks will have their own givens and druthers for which a particular scale is best suited. And that scale is not always N. However, many N scalers (myself included) feel that new people are often bombarded with HO right out of the gate to the extend that it almost appears that HO is the only choice.
I think many of the N scalers are just trying to make sure that new folks understand that N is more than a "fringe scale" and that many (although not all) of the choices available to an HO-scaler are also available in N. I do feel that N scale is not always the answer. But I also feel that N scale is still the answer in many cases for certain sets of constraints, and that it's important that new hobbyists make educated choices rather than just following the crowd. I may be off here but I think that's what Lee was hinting at. Just because one scale may be the most popular doesn't mean it's the best fit for you.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
I have seen some nice layouts done in a small space with HO. For instance, the Georgia Southern featured a while back in MRR (http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=1444) which was in 8x8 feet.
I have a similar space and am designing N because, given my list of givens and druthers, HO would involve too much comprimise for the benefits. My biggest given is no duck-unders. I actually prefer the size of "S" but that just won't work for me for a whole bunch of reasons. I DO like larger trains.. but need to balance that against my desire to build a medium sized layout on my next effort.
Keep in mind, if you are thinking of a walk-in design, aisle width doesnt change with scale.. 8 feet would allow a "U" shaped layout with a 3 foot ailse and 2.5 feet on either side..
Perhaps if you posted your givens and druthers and you could get more specific help?
If you interested in Big Steam its a tough choice. I think HO steam looks better. But.. steam requires larger curves to look nice when running.
Chris
wm3798 wrote: But in N scale it's a matter of choice, not necessity...Lee
But in N scale it's a matter of choice, not necessity...
It's a matter of choice in any scale.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
N Scale Diesels......I like 'em
tomikawaTT wrote: concretelackey wrote: PASMITH wrote: 4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:I have decide that I am going to use N scale but if people can give me a reason that I sould use HO scale give me some good reason I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.If you like running Challengers even N scale may not work for you in an 8X12 space. It seems to me you are going to have to consider some type of short line with small locos or use a lot of view blocks and staging. How about narrow gauge?Peter Smith, Memphiswhat if he kept the bigger locos to the main and utilized smaller ones for switching/tighter radii?Hey, guys! John Armstrong demonstrated that it's possible to run a DM&IR 2-8-8-4 in 4 x 8 - in HO scale. ("The Mighty Bantam," The Classic Layout Designs of John Armstrong, Kalpubco.) Given that, running a less powerful locomotive on a layout with three times the available area in a scale only 55% the size shouldn't be that much of a challenge.View blocks and staging are the way to go. The rest is dealt with by the following quotation from a science fiction character of my acquaintance:"I define, 'impossible' as, 'I haven't done that yet.'"If anyone, anywhere, has done it, it sure as taxes IS possible.Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a space of equivalent size)
concretelackey wrote: PASMITH wrote: 4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:I have decide that I am going to use N scale but if people can give me a reason that I sould use HO scale give me some good reason I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.If you like running Challengers even N scale may not work for you in an 8X12 space. It seems to me you are going to have to consider some type of short line with small locos or use a lot of view blocks and staging. How about narrow gauge?Peter Smith, Memphiswhat if he kept the bigger locos to the main and utilized smaller ones for switching/tighter radii?
PASMITH wrote: 4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:I have decide that I am going to use N scale but if people can give me a reason that I sould use HO scale give me some good reason I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.If you like running Challengers even N scale may not work for you in an 8X12 space. It seems to me you are going to have to consider some type of short line with small locos or use a lot of view blocks and staging. How about narrow gauge?Peter Smith, Memphis
4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:I have decide that I am going to use N scale but if people can give me a reason that I sould use HO scale give me some good reason I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.
what if he kept the bigger locos to the main and utilized smaller ones for switching/tighter radii?
Hey, guys! John Armstrong demonstrated that it's possible to run a DM&IR 2-8-8-4 in 4 x 8 - in HO scale. ("The Mighty Bantam," The Classic Layout Designs of John Armstrong, Kalpubco.) Given that, running a less powerful locomotive on a layout with three times the available area in a scale only 55% the size shouldn't be that much of a challenge.
View blocks and staging are the way to go. The rest is dealt with by the following quotation from a science fiction character of my acquaintance:
"I define, 'impossible' as, 'I haven't done that yet.'"
If anyone, anywhere, has done it, it sure as taxes IS possible.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a space of equivalent size)
Well, my akane DM&IR 2-8-8-4 doesnt like 22" radius very well, I have to go over the engine and make sure its operationally sound, its practically a never run engine brand new so it needs running in loosening up. Its bearings are tight and need running to open them up a tad.
That I wont do on anything but 24" or wider if I can help it and I am progressing on my layout now to make a loop to do just that.
My Rivarrosi 2-8-8-2 and Spectrum 2-6-6-2 and BLI 2-6-6-4 all like 22", but they're a different animal with the rear drivers jointed for sharper curves.
I have too much in HO invested to go N now especially for what available. N had a late start in the hobby just like Z scale so theres some limitation on availability. There were some N scale North Shore cars made dunno about the South Shore but HO is still the better selection.
There is enough in N I could do what I am doing now in some degree but too late for that to make a switch and toooo much work to do that.
davidmbedard wrote: Modern Day here. Locos from the GP-9 to SD60.How do you define modern? The past 60 years? David B
Modern Day here. Locos from the GP-9 to SD60.
How do you define modern? The past 60 years?
David B
I should have said that I like using old diesels with modern cars.
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
Lots of RR's use older locos (like the Gp9s) for swithching duties. On my Model RR, they are my swichers, SD9s are my road switchers, GP30s are my road diesels.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
I had this problem when I desided to start this hobby just a short while ago, I mean a SHORT while ago, I haven't even finished enough of my first layout to start running my trains.
I went to a local hooby shop (30 miles away) hey. I live in the woods on a mountain what can I say!
I went in and introduced myself and asked if I could see examples of all scales, when I held an N scale locomotive in my hand, a few images shot through my mind....
1) I have a dog that likes to put things in her mouth...hummmm!
2) I have two grandchildren that like to do what the dog does....Hummm!
3) If something breaks I like to try and fix it myself, where in the world was I going to find a tool kit and tool box that small....Kebler Elves maybe?
4) I wanted something that I could see if I dropped it on the carpet......LOL!' I'm going to get a flogging for that comment....LOL!
It is all personal choice and mine was made when I held the different sizes in my hand and thought about what I wanted out of layout, I had to settle for HO because my Wife didn't want a real train on the property so HO was a compromise between me and the Mrs.
What ever you deside, make it YOUR choice so that you can live with your choice and not let the blame fall on others....LOL, I'm in sooooooo much trouble.
Bye!
Sign me, a new bee with old stuff!!!
Geared Steam wrote:I personally would never go back to N, but if I was to do a scale change, it would be to On30. The modeling (details) are there, and a good numbers of nice locos now available have really caught my eye. But again, I like Shays, Climax, Porters, logging/mining shortline railroading, so the scale itself fits my interests.Again as many others have already said, you should first review what you want to model, and what details you want, then look for available models, RTR, kitbash or Kit availability for the model, space available and hopefully you can choose your scale. MHO
I personally would never go back to N, but if I was to do a scale change, it would be to On30. The modeling (details) are there, and a good numbers of nice locos now available have really caught my eye. But again, I like Shays, Climax, Porters, logging/mining shortline railroading, so the scale itself fits my interests.
Again as many others have already said, you should first review what you want to model, and what details you want, then look for available models, RTR, kitbash or Kit availability for the model, space available and hopefully you can choose your scale.
MHO
pcarrell wrote: Packers 1 wrote: wm3798 wrote: If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.Lee That is the 110% absolute truth.Once again, not so much if you model steam.
Packers 1 wrote: wm3798 wrote: If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.Lee That is the 110% absolute truth.
wm3798 wrote: If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.Lee
If you work in N scale, you'd buy Atlas and recommend it to anyone who asks.
That is the 110% absolute truth.
Once again, not so much if you model steam.
tgindy wrote: 4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.It is a matter of perspective. Instead of looking at things from fitting more into a given area - Turn that idea around and take the layout from 8x12 to 4x6:1st, plan a layout in N Scale.2nd, cut back the same operations by apx. 50%, and you'll have a layout in HO Scale.
4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.
I am working with a 8x12ft layout and dont think I can put much.
It is a matter of perspective. Instead of looking at things from fitting more into a given area - Turn that idea around and take the layout from 8x12 to 4x6:
1st, plan a layout in N Scale.
2nd, cut back the same operations by apx. 50%, and you'll have a layout in HO Scale.
I planned his layout.
Hi,
great question, one that I struggled with only about 4 years ago. There is really not much to add to the statements made here. The one thing that I noticed over the last number of years going to private layouts, clubs, and shows is the reliability. The models in N as well as HO are totally reliable from the main manufacturers. The big question is the track work. It seems to me that the N scale equipment is a lot more picky. This is to no surprise because the smaller the scale the bigger the effect if something is out by 1/64 of an inch.
As for the size and ability to handle N scale VS HO scale, there was a wonderful gentleman which said that N scale is the way to go. His arguement was that one can take a Big Boy in N scale in one hand and place it on the ramp for put trains on the track. This is impossible to do in HO because the Big Boy requires both hands to lift it due to its length.
Go with what you feel most comfortable with. Remember these two rules:
Rule 1 - This is my railroad and I do as I please.
Rule 2 - If you have any objections to what is being done here refer to rule #1.
Frank
"If you need a helping hand, you'll find one at the end of your arm."
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
They do offer a growing range of steam era freight cars, though, and if you're modeling the transition era, they have a wide variety of first generation diesels, including Baldwins and Alco's...
Sprinkle them into your fleet with some Bachmann Spectrum steam and you can populate a 12x8 layout pretty nicely...