Dallas Model Works wrote:...But how can you determine in advance how long your trains ought to be?
...But how can you determine in advance how long your trains ought to be?
wm3798 wrote: My train length is limited by the tracks in my staging yard, which range from 15 to 19 cars. Visually, I try to break up my scenery so you don't see the front and the back of the train at the same time, at least not often...Looking at the train head on can give you a better illusion of a long train. I shot this recently on my layout...Same location, a few weeks ago. The train is about 18 cars in each picture, but the number of diesels and the viewing angle trick the eye into thinking you've got 100 cars coming at you. Your theory proves correct!Lee
My train length is limited by the tracks in my staging yard, which range from 15 to 19 cars. Visually, I try to break up my scenery so you don't see the front and the back of the train at the same time, at least not often...
Looking at the train head on can give you a better illusion of a long train. I shot this recently on my layout...
Same location, a few weeks ago. The train is about 18 cars in each picture, but the number of diesels and the viewing angle trick the eye into thinking you've got 100 cars coming at you. Your theory proves correct!
Lee
I've got a way around that. Staging becomes shelves and a portable rerailer. Poof! endless track!
BTW, Awesome shots. Love the climb uphill.
The Naptown rule is the length of passing sidings. About 15 cars. I tend to follow the "what looks right length." The switching will also tend to hang around the 15 xcar mark, but Dad and I both like the long unit drags. And for Half Moon, which sits on aain out of Chicago, long through trains may be norm. It comes down to what your modeling, and what space you have. Smaller room will make trains smaller, as will shortlines in the middle of knowwhere. If you've got a larger area and are modelling Big Boys/etc, ABBA sets, or modern Dash 9 pairs or trios that look out of place with a train that isn't as long as they are,
Also, this comes form the guy lookign forward to modelling a full length Circus Train. only 56 cars.
-Morgan
near the end of its life (1949) the Virginia & Truckee was operating with train length running north out of Carson City of 6 cars: mixed loads and empties, freight and passenger. They were running with 3 1905 era ten wheelers and a 1920s consolidation. I'm sure that when they got to Reno they would meet an Espee cab forward AC. my point is that what yer modeling is what determines appropriate and realistic train length
Dallas Model Works wrote: Dave Vollmer wrote: By the way, Tony Koester discusses train length in the 2008 Model Railroad Planning.The idea is that you need to determine train length first, and then plan your layout (and staging) accordingly.<snip>Exactly!But how, in the first place, does one determine what the train length can practically be in a given room, and thus my proposal.Craig
Dave Vollmer wrote: By the way, Tony Koester discusses train length in the 2008 Model Railroad Planning.The idea is that you need to determine train length first, and then plan your layout (and staging) accordingly.<snip>
By the way, Tony Koester discusses train length in the 2008 Model Railroad Planning.
The idea is that you need to determine train length first, and then plan your layout (and staging) accordingly.
<snip>
Exactly!
But how, in the first place, does one determine what the train length can practically be in a given room, and thus my proposal.
Craig
Well, I put up a loop of Kato Unitrack with 31 inch radius in my train room which takes about roughly 7 by something feet of space.. and found that my analog test unit would pull 19 boxcars and a caboose without overwhelming the loop.
I hate math but I think to recall that long of a train took about... 60% of the total loop. It has been a while since I ran it to remember precisely.
90 degrees of 31 inch curvature will hold approx 8 40 foot boxcars. So when you think in that way tis easier to reconcile train lengh versus space.
Dont be surprised when that ABBA shows up with one HD Flatcar with many axles and a caboose.
Dallas Model Works wrote:But how, in the first place, does one determine what the train length can practically be in a given room, and thus my proposal.Craig
In addition to the maximum visual train length (how much can you see at the normal distance from the layout), I have a couple of other rules of thumb I use in layout design.
The first comes from Iain Rice in MRP 2003: for a shelf layout, maximum train length should be between 1/4 and 1/3 the length of the shelf.
The next is mine based on observation of 4x8 and similar island style layouts - maximum train length on these layouts should be equal to or less than the distance between the turnback curves. This length allows fitting of a train length passing siding on the sides, or on the ends, and prevents the train from being on both straight sides of the layout at the same time.
I use a similar rule for around-the-room-walls layout. Maximum train length should be less than the distance between the corner curves on the short wall. Anything more overwhelms the layout, IMHO.
just my thoughts
Fred W
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
A Norfolk Southern local trundles through town here every day. Most of the time, a high hood GP38 is the power, and its pulling 10-20 cars, usually some coil steel cars, pellet hoppers, and half a dozen 60 (sometimes 86') boxcars. The last few days its had a Dash 9 as the power (the usual Geep may be down for fixin')
A very interesting train in real life, and would look good on a layout. The same train with 3 Dash 9s as power and 2 pushers would look out of place. I model N scale steam, and a "huge coal drag" of 40-50 cars looks incredible...keep in mind, these are small 32 foot hoppers and N scale to boot, so the whole thing is only about 10 feet long. Match the train to the power and its surroundings. My coal drags have a mallet (2-8-8-2s atm, working on more prototypical ones) and another pushing, and looks good. The same engines working 15 boxcars would just look wrong.
2-8-8-0 wrote: A Norfolk Southern local trundles through town here every day. Most of the time, a high hood GP38 is the power, and its pulling 10-20 cars, usually some coil steel cars, pellet hoppers, and half a dozen 60 (sometimes 86') boxcars. The last few days its had a Dash 9 as the power (the usual Geep may be down for fixin')A very interesting train in real life, and would look good on a layout. The same train with 3 Dash 9s as power and 2 pushers would look out of place. I model N scale steam, and a "huge coal drag" of 40-50 cars looks incredible...keep in mind, these are small 32 foot hoppers and N scale to boot, so the whole thing is only about 10 feet long. Match the train to the power and its surroundings. My coal drags have a mallet (2-8-8-2s atm, working on more prototypical ones) and another pushing, and looks good. The same engines working 15 boxcars would just look wrong.
But if you leave off the pusher it would look just like a prototype photo I've seen - a N&W Y, about a dozen miscellaneous cars and a caboose.
Toward the end of the steam era, N&W used Ys for EVERYTHING - even anemic little peddlers.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I'm in a HO modular club and I'm one of 2 or 3 members that has a home layout also. My room size is 15x21 feet. After I figured how much space I needed for the guys coming over for meetings, running some operations etc., I came up with a layout that has about 85 feet of mainline. Get ten fellas in a room that size and it tends to get crowded sometimes.
In my yard the A/D track will hold about 9 cars, with caboose. I don't have a staging yard/track. Two of my passing sidings will easily hold an 8 car train, the third one is much shorter. With a nine car train, I usually pull them with 4 axle diesels or smaller steam, like a consolidation. Looks a lot better than pulling them with a couple of Dash 8's. Operating sessions will usually run 45 minutes to an hour. We've found that is about the right amount of time, not too short nor too long.
Now when I'm running by myself I do like to couple a Class A 2-6-6-4 to about 30 cars and let'um run. When the club has it's layout set up, for shows etc. I almost always run the bigger diesels and steam power
Anyway, that's how I came up with layout size and configuration.
Jarrell