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NO MORE KATO FOR ME

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  • From: Mesa Arizona
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NO MORE KATO FOR ME
Posted by mokenarr on Friday, February 8, 2008 4:50 PM
1st let me tell you I have been in N Scale for 30 years now,  I have painted way to many engines.  some for my own line , see picture , and some for real roads , see another picture.  All these of course you need to take apart and put back , no problem , till now.  I decided to paint up the new KATO NW2 to Chicago West Pullman and Southern, so I took the shell off, and to my amazement , the trucks then fell off , along with a couple peices of copper stricps.   this was because the only thing holding the mechanical parts together was the plastic hood I had just removed.  I paid close to $100 for this and they cant even screw the frame together?  And some junky copper strips are providing contact to the rails.  How cheap can you get.  My last KAto was a GP38 , and it woudl barely run, full throttle and the lights would blase and the thing would creap along,  Sent it to them ,they replaced the engine , which I had already done , and guess what same problem   I had painted it for TP&W and really wanted it to work .  I finally fixed it , I put a Atlas GP 38 under the shell..   I ca say one thing , this is my very last Kato anything.
Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.
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Posted by CPrail on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:01 PM

I have a couple "KATO's" in HO scale,these are fine running and well put together,but I must admite I have never been a big fan of their Warrenty, 90 days  doesn't seem like a lot,I look for lifetime and thats where my $$$ goes.

Mike.

Southern Interior & Cascades Model Railroad. http://www.freewebs.com/sicmrr/
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Posted by mokenarr on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:13 PM
The purpose of this rant is to tell people about this.   Yes it looks nice , yes it runs nice , but they can do a much better job of holding the thing together.  Di they expect nobody will want to paint there engine.   I mean for Petes sake , the shell holding the thing together.  And on the old one , why did they send it back doing the same thing, I sent a detailed letter to them.  I will take Atlas any day ,  or maybe get a KATO and duct tape the frame toether
Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.
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Posted by Don Gibson on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:14 PM

Mike:

I think what you need is a piece of Reality:

Bachmann's 'N' gage with their !00% 'replacement' warranty *just might be a good start.

No, Don't thank me. You're deserving . 

note:*Bachmann's Warranty is not FREE. it is a $15 replacement FEE (plus shipping your engine) to factory.  It's an EXCHANGE - (1)as long as they have a replacement, (2)(it's cheaper than paying NY Technicion 'Union' wages) - so 'How valuable is the product?

Current BACHMANN complaints ('wiring' derailing tender ), will get same problem back in exchange (not repaired) for a $27 'education' fee.

HOW LONG do you think the factory will take to write a 'Manufacturing Change Order' to correct the current problem in China? - so you can get a 'free' $27 Repair?

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Posted by mokenarr on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:28 PM
I just painted an Atlas RS-3   when I took it apart it stayed together.  I just spent over 1/2 hour putting the Kato back together, and I had to use masking tape to hold it together.  Yes I know they run great, everyone says so.  I can not imagine why Kato did not run a coule little screws thru the frame to hold it together,  maybe they have been listening to the praise too long.  As I said , I paid 100 bucks for this engine and it falls aprt when I remove the frame.  Try putting the little u joint things back together sometime, and I wonder how may people remove the shell and paint it.   
Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.
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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:31 PM
I took my NW2 apart to install a decoder, and had no issues at all.  I think it is a great little loco!

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by mokenarr on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:38 PM
Was there anything holding yours together? All I did was remove the whole shell in one peice and I looked at the frame and the trucks were hangin down held on by the u joint that connects the truck to the flywheel.   the copper strip was laying on the bench   And when I put it back together the 1st time it did the same thing so I taped the frame together.   Just din't understand
Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.
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Posted by loathar on Friday, February 8, 2008 5:58 PM
 davidmbedard wrote:
 CPrail wrote:

I have a couple "KATO's" in HO scale,these are fine running and well put together,but I must admite I have never been a big fan of their Warrenty, 90 days  doesn't seem like a lot,I look for lifetime and thats where my $$$ goes.

Mike.

Who offers a lifetime warrenty in HO scale?  Ive never heard of one.

David B

Bachmann...

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Posted by CPrail on Friday, February 8, 2008 6:07 PM

Really, Thats odd I guess those little lifetime warrenty cards in Proto's and Spectrums that have HO engine's in them are what?

I Guess I should have said " Lifetime Limited Warrenty" And I quote the Spectrum Warrenty " Bachmann Ind., Inc will remedy any defect or Malfunction occurring in the Locomotive within the Life time of the Purchaser"

Which is still better than 90 days,  I have actually used both Warrenties at no cost to me but shipping.

Or am I wrong???????

Enlighten me .... As I'm sure you will

Mike

Southern Interior & Cascades Model Railroad. http://www.freewebs.com/sicmrr/
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Posted by loathar on Friday, February 8, 2008 6:18 PM
David-I've heard of people sending in 20 year old locos that Bach couldn't fix, so they replaced them with comparable new locos for a minimum fee of $10-$15. They've sent me parts for my old ones for free. No questions asked. I really don't see why people complain about their service dept.Confused [%-)]
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Posted by CPrail on Friday, February 8, 2008 6:46 PM
 

Mike:

I think what you need is a piece of Reality:

Bachmann's 'N' gage with their !00% 'replacement' warranty *just might be a good start.

No, Don't thank me. You're deserving . 

note:*Bachmann's Warranty is not FREE. it is a $15 replacement FEE (plus shipping your engine) to factory.  It's an EXCHANGE - (1)as long as they have a replacement, (2)(it's cheaper than paying NY Technicion 'Union' wages) - so 'How valuable is the product?

Current BACHMANN complaints ('wiring' derailing tender ), will get same problem back in exchange (not repaired) for a $27 'education' fee.

HOW LONG do you think the factory will take to write a 'Manufacturing Change Order' to correct the current problem in China? - so you can get a 'free' $27 Repair?


Don Gibson
.............. ________ _______
I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I
((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I
// o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO
###########################

Gee  $27 Dollars, What does KATO Offer??? After 90 Days??.

Mike

Southern Interior & Cascades Model Railroad. http://www.freewebs.com/sicmrr/
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Posted by on30francisco on Friday, February 8, 2008 7:01 PM

 loathar wrote:
David-I've heard of people sending in 20 year old locos that Bach couldn't fix, so they replaced them with comparable new locos for a minimum fee of $10-$15. They've sent me parts for my old ones for free. No questions asked. I really don't see why people complain about their service dept.Confused [%-)]

I have no complaints about Bachmann's service department as they offer a lifetime warranty. Within one year they will repair or replace the loco for free. You just pay the postage to send it to them. After one year there's a service charge of $10 for HO or N scale locos. I've had two locos, one Large Scale and the other On30, promptly repaired and replaced by them.

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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Friday, February 8, 2008 7:39 PM

 mokenarr wrote:
Was there anything holding yours together? All I did was remove the whole shell in one peice and I looked at the frame and the trucks were hangin down held on by the u joint that connects the truck to the flywheel.   the copper strip was laying on the bench   And when I put it back together the 1st time it did the same thing so I taped the frame together.   Just din't understand

I really don't remember.  I think I'll pop it open over the weekend and see what's up!  I just don't remember an issue.  If there was one, it obviously didn't bother me much!

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by SecretWeapon on Friday, February 8, 2008 7:59 PM
I've been in "N" since 1969. I've got over 200 engines. 3/4 are Kato. They all run great.
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Posted by CPrail on Friday, February 8, 2008 8:19 PM

Gee.....a locomotive that never requires warranty repair, perhaps?

 

Really, so no KATO engine ever built has had a problem,Wow Perfection

Mike

Southern Interior & Cascades Model Railroad. http://www.freewebs.com/sicmrr/
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Posted by Tjsingle on Friday, February 8, 2008 8:25 PM
 CPrail wrote:

Really, Thats odd I guess those little lifetime warrenty cards in Proto's and Spectrums that have HO engine's in them are what?

I Guess I should have said " Lifetime Limited Warrenty" And I quote the Spectrum Warrenty " Bachmann Ind., Inc will remedy any defect or Malfunction occurring in the Locomotive within the Life time of the Purchaser"

Which is still better than 90 days,  I have actually used both Warrenties at no cost to me but shipping.

Or am I wrong???????

Enlighten me .... As I'm sure you will

Mike

 

When I got my Bachmann K4, one of the wires from the tender to the locomotive was not sodered correctly and they sent me a brand new K4

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Posted by Teditor on Friday, February 8, 2008 8:28 PM

Yay!!!

More for me!!!!

Teditor 

Teditor

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, February 8, 2008 8:38 PM

Actually Kato has had some issues in HO..Everybody knows about the faulty wiring on the earlier SD40.We won't go into the incorrect paint,incorrect details ect.

I had a HO NW2 that was crap from the start and I never could get that thing to run like it should and I have repaired annd tweaked engines for years.

 

Larry

Conductor.

Summerset Ry.


"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt  Safety First!"

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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, February 9, 2008 12:06 AM

I have had all the same complaints with HO Kato's that Brakie has mentioned as well.Not great concidering the premium ones pays for one of their offerings,I still haven't seen a good CP action red paint job from them yet,so if I do buy something from them it's undecorated less to complain about then,mind you since the RS2's they haven't offered anything remotley close to the era I model anyway.

Rob

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Posted by R. T. POTEET on Saturday, February 9, 2008 1:14 AM

mokenarr, you didn't say where you bought this thing - not the merchant you purchased it from but did you get it from a local or a discounter or at a swap meet or where.

I say this because back in 1972 I was stationed with the Air Force in Germany and was toying with the idea of giving up HO Scale for N Scale; I ordered a couple of MRC 2-8-4 Berkshires from a mail-order discounter based on Staten Island who advertised some bargain prices in RMC. They turned out to be a bunch of flakes and it took me from 1972 to 1976 before I finally got rid of their last credit memo. Anyway, when I got these two units and went to run them they ran in opposite directions. I finally figured out which one was running in reverse and took it apart to see if I could figure out what was the matter with it. At first I thought that someone had probably gotten the motor in backwards - I had done this on some of my Cary/Mantua kits - but I finally concluded that the driving axles and tender axles were reversed and that is what was causing the reverse polarity on the motor; when I turned the axles 180 degrees everything ran According to Hoyle.

What I finally concluded had happened was this SMC company had sold it to someone who took it apart and got it back together improperly so returned it as defective merchandise; SMC then unloaded it on me. This is probably what happened to you.

I probably have more Atlas units than Kato units but some of my Atlas units go back to the Atlas/Kato days of a decade or more ago. My Kato units have always given me flawless service and the worst problem I have ever encountered was a loke with a pick up wiper making erratic contact with the back of a wheel set. Rather than get mad at Kato I would vent my spleen on the outfit that sold this to you - they probably realized what had happened and found it far easier to dump it on you than return it to Kato!

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

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Posted by Packers#1 on Saturday, February 9, 2008 1:47 AM
Don't get mad at KATO. The MR guys had no trouble with removing the body from their sample. When it comes to locos, Atlas is #1, but Kato is probably #2.

Sawyer Berry

Clemson University c/o 2018

Building a protolanced industrial park layout

 

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Saturday, February 9, 2008 8:22 AM

The only major issue I had with my N scale Kato E8 is that the wheels were slightly out of gauge.  Fortunately, they were on the wide side, so a little pressure with my fingers brought them right back in gauge.

I have a dog who sheds a lot (he's part Border Collie) and once the E8 started grinding and stopped running.  I found some of my dog's hair had gotten into the mechanism and wound around the worm gear.  I had to take things apart, but once I got all back together, it ran fine again.  That's not Kato's fault at all; it was mine for not brushing my dog enough!

Katos are also really easy to convert to DCC.  I love my Kato!!!  Kato and Atlas are the standard in N scale diesels right now.

I converted mine to DCC and added PRR TrainPhone antennae:

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by mokenarr on Saturday, February 9, 2008 8:42 AM

 R. T. POTEET wrote:

mokenarr, you didn't say where you bought this thing - not the merchant you purchased it from but did you get it from a local or a discounter or at a swap meet or where.

I say this because back in 1972 I was stationed with the Air Force in Germany and was toying with the idea of giving up HO Scale for N Scale; I ordered a couple of MRC 2-8-4 Berkshires from a mail-order discounter based on Staten Island who advertised some bargain prices in RMC. They turned out to be a bunch of flakes and it took me from 1972 to 1976 before I finally got rid of their last credit memo. Anyway, when I got these two units and went to run them they ran in opposite directions. I finally figured out which one was running in reverse and took it apart to see if I could figure out what was the matter with it. At first I thought that someone had probably gotten the motor in backwards - I had done this on some of my Cary/Mantua kits - but I finally concluded that the driving axles and tender axles were reversed and that is what was causing the reverse polarity on the motor; when I turned the axles 180 degrees everything ran According to Hoyle.

What I finally concluded had happened was this SMC company had sold it to someone who took it apart and got it back together improperly so returned it as defective merchandise; SMC then unloaded it on me. This is probably what happened to you.

I probably have more Atlas units than Kato units but some of my Atlas units go back to the Atlas/Kato days of a decade or more ago. My Kato units have always given me flawless service and the worst problem I have ever encountered was a loke with a pick up wiper making erratic contact with the back of a wheel set. Rather than get mad at Kato I would vent my spleen on the outfit that sold this to you - they probably realized what had happened and found it far easier to dump it on you than return it to Kato!

 

got this from my local booy shop about 2 months ago.  waited to get decals and paint b4 taking it apart.  As I said , it runs great , looks super , has lots of detail on the thing, iys just that the frame holding the engine fell apart when I removed the shell, I dont care what the MR guys did , wish I new.  I di not pull on the trucks to remove it , if it does not come off peaceably , then its being taken off incorrectly.

I stopped getting running stuff from shows when I had a similar experievce with an engine, and after I got it home I had no way of contacting the guy I got it from , and next show he was not there.   Seems the motor was held on by super glue , but he said it was new , hmm.

Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.
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Posted by Mr. SP on Saturday, February 9, 2008 9:47 AM

Although I don't own any KATO stuff I do have a Bachmann GE 70 Tonner. Originally I had bought the 70 Tonner when the model first came out. I had it for several years when the gears on one truck jammed. The model was sent to Bachmann for repair under the warrenty. They sent me a letter in which they stated the model had been replaced by a new version and they would replace my original for $15. I have the new 70 Tonner and it is excellent. Just wish it were available in SP Trger Stripe with aluminum ends paint.

The newer model is far better than the one I sent in as far as the drive is concerned.

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Posted by Autobus Prime on Saturday, February 9, 2008 11:52 AM
 CPrail wrote:

I have a couple "KATO's" in HO scale,these are fine running and well put together,but I must admite I have never been a big fan of their Warrenty, 90 days  doesn't seem like a lot,I look for lifetime and thats where my $$$ goes.

CPR:

Which is better - a 90 day warranty that few people ever need to use, or a lifetime warranty that gets used all the time?

I think we need to lose our belief in warranties as guarantees of anything.  There was a time when they were.  Kato's 3-mo warranty is a traditional warranty, and this says to me "We are willing to do decent QC to eliminate failures".  The lifetime warranties say to me "We are going to let the end-user handle the QC".

I don't hear of too many Katos having problems...do you?

 Currently president of: a slowly upgrading trainset fleet o'doom.
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Posted by santafemikie on Saturday, February 9, 2008 12:55 PM

mokenarr,

I am not sure what happened with your model. If there was a problem with it, I would call Kato USA or contact them online and talk to some of the guys in the tech dept. They are very good and have parts stashed for even their earlier models. Their repair dept isn't free, many times they can send you some new or updated parts to cure your problem. As far as warranties go, I have over 100 Katos (HO) on my layout and have never had a warranty problem. There was a stir about their SD-40-2's but I hard wire ALL of my locomotives so I never even noticed that one. I have had breakage from mishandling only a couple of times.The other issue for "free" warranties is once you take it apart it is no longer covered. Some parts any manufacturer will replace but you will need to do the work yourself. The only problem I have with Kato is they don't come out with enough new stuff!

 Mikie

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Posted by Don Gibson on Saturday, February 9, 2008 7:05 PM
Tjsingle:

Really, Thats odd I guess those little lifetime warrenty cards in Proto's and Spectrums that have HO engine's in them are what?

I give up. Generally it's Proof of purchase?

  I have actually used both Warrenties at no cost to me but shipping.

(Terms of NewWarrantee?)

Or am I wrong???????

No - as long as you meet their conditions, (and they are still in business). The KEY word here is "Remedy" -  as always, the 'Devil is in the details. Enlighten me .... As I'm sure you will

Mike

OK, Mike, but I'm not sure it will help.

Don Gibson .............. ________ _______ I I__()____||__| ||||| I / I ((|__|----------| | |||||||||| I ______ I // o--O O O O-----o o OO-------OO ###########################
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Posted by mokenarr on Saturday, February 9, 2008 8:40 PM
 santafemikie wrote:

mokenarr,

I am not sure what happened with your model. If there was a problem with it, I would call Kato USA or contact them online and talk to some of the guys in the tech dept. They are very good and have parts stashed for even their earlier models. Their repair dept isn't free, many times they can send you some new or updated parts to cure your problem. As far as warranties go, I have over 100 Katos (HO) on my layout and have never had a warranty problem. There was a stir about their SD-40-2's but I hard wire ALL of my locomotives so I never even noticed that one. I have had breakage from mishandling only a couple of times.The other issue for "free" warranties is once you take it apart it is no longer covered. Some parts any manufacturer will replace but you will need to do the work yourself. The only problem I have with Kato is they don't come out with enough new stuff!

 Mikie

Thanks for the info , there has to be something weird for it to do that , when I got the shell ff the frame came apart and the trucks fell off.  and some of that stuff is really tiny and hard for these old eyes to see   I did get it back together , has tape holding the frames together now and it ran on the test track OK   i have yet to paint it so there is no shell on it now.  hope fully will be OK then
Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.
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Posted by Vail and Southwestern RR on Saturday, February 9, 2008 10:14 PM
I just popped an NW2 open.  It looks to be true that there are no screws through it holding the frame halves to gether, I think the fuel tank, and friction on the circuit board are all that are doing it, and I don't want to have to put it together, so I am not taking it apart!  This thing is really tiny, I am thinking that the reason for no screws may be that there really isn't a place for them.  Again, I am not taking it apart to see, but most of the length of the frame is taken up by mechanism, and of course the cab end is cut way down, besides.  So, while I see the issue, or at least the potential issue, I do not see it as a Kato issue, or a "cheapness" issue.  I think it is a practical issue in producing such a tiny locomotive!  That's my opinion, feel free to disagree.  I won't hesitate to buy more Katos when they are what I want.

Jeff But it's a dry heat!

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Posted by mokenarr on Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:30 AM

 Vail and Southwestern RR wrote:
I just popped an NW2 open.  It looks to be true that there are no screws through it holding the frame halves to gether, I think the fuel tank, and friction on the circuit board are all that are doing it, and I don't want to have to put it together, so I am not taking it apart!  This thing is really tiny, I am thinking that the reason for no screws may be that there really isn't a place for them.  Again, I am not taking it apart to see, but most of the length of the frame is taken up by mechanism, and of course the cab end is cut way down, besides.  So, while I see the issue, or at least the potential issue, I do not see it as a Kato issue, or a "cheapness" issue.  I think it is a practical issue in producing such a tiny locomotive!  That's my opinion, feel free to disagree.  I won't hesitate to buy more Katos when they are what I want.

I beleive you are 100% correct , the tank and circuit board are all that hold it together.  I had removed the tank before removing the shell and when the shell came off the bottom part of the frame seperated, cause the inside to come outside.   When I paint it and put it back together I will make sure the tanl is on b4 i do anything else   Thank You , you have helped alot

Old Steam loco's never die, they just lose thier fire.

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