Paul,
Thanks for including the Timonium Great Scale Model Railroad in your post. This is our 26th year and our winter Show is next week...Feb 2/3. Are the shows getting stale??? Good question! Possibly...although we try to keep ours alive with new vendors and features. Each show brings several new vendors from dealers to individuals. This usually adds quite a bit of interest...plus the many operating layouts.
All of us in the hobby are fighting attrition and what the ratio of newbies is to folks leaving the hobby is conjecture at best. Many hobby shops have gone south for many reasons....mostly falling victim to new buying habits such as the internet and ebay (ugh!). Once the hobby shops have greatly reduced their ranks, the shows and clubs are really the only venues a person may be exposed to our hobby with. The essentials for building a layout such as track, paint, glue, etc will not be found in cyberspace nor will possible new modelers learn about this hobby from the net. They must see and touch the item to be drawn into model railroading.
Being a show promoter, I could be bordering on questionable taste in over hyping our show and shows in general. What I have found enjoyable at these events, besides many good deals on just about everything...are the many wonderful folks I have the opportunity to chat and share tales with. Comradeship is is a strong building block in this hobby. I have loved every minute I've spent promoting our show as does Ken Young and our staff. If you folks keep attending, we'll pledge to keep making our Timonium show quite interesting for all.
HZ
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Our shows in New England are all clumped into the late winter / early spring timeframe. We did have one in the summer a couple of years back. Although it seemed well-attended to me, the promotors (Greenberg) haven't repeated a summer show since. Unfortunately, we spend a lot of our weekends skiing this time of year, so I miss a lot of the action. In particular, I've only been home for one of the Amherst shows since I got back into the hobby.
Yeah, the shows look the same. I don't get to a lot of them, though, so they're still a good time. Our local Greenberg and NMRA shows (Wilmington and Marlboro, MA) are about a half-hour drive and free parking, so it's not much of an investment to get in. Consequently, I don't feel like I have to get some great deal on something to make the trip worthwhile. If I find a set of figures or some detail parts I like, even at MSRP, well, at least I didn't have to order them and pay for shipping. I've gone to a few show where all I came home with was memories of the layouts, and I was still happy.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
bogp40 wrote: The shows, for the most part, haven't changed much in the 20 years I've been going. When you're new to the hobby even the most lame and crappy show seems great. I guess the novelty just wears off.Year after year and show after show, Maybe we are the ones that are "stale". I will always go to the Big E, Springfeild show though. Great for those once a year meetings and to see what the major manufacturers have in the works. Do find some new products and/ or methods in building.Last year, I noticed the Cripplebush rubber rocks. They solve a problem on scenicing an extremely long cut. Actually, I'm stopping by to pick up a few more of those Santa Fe's to finish the spot.Looking forward to Springfield once again this weekend. One of the highlights of the trip is dinner at the Steaming Tender in Palmer.
The shows, for the most part, haven't changed much in the 20 years I've been going. When you're new to the hobby even the most lame and crappy show seems great. I guess the novelty just wears off.
Year after year and show after show, Maybe we are the ones that are "stale". I will always go to the Big E, Springfeild show though. Great for those once a year meetings and to see what the major manufacturers have in the works. Do find some new products and/ or methods in building.
Last year, I noticed the Cripplebush rubber rocks. They solve a problem on scenicing an extremely long cut. Actually, I'm stopping by to pick up a few more of those Santa Fe's to finish the spot.
Looking forward to Springfield once again this weekend. One of the highlights of the trip is dinner at the Steaming Tender in Palmer.
Maybe it's my newness to the hobby. I find them alot of fun. I hit the road with my digital camera and $50, get home with a ton of pictures and ideas and maybe a few small items. I hope the fun never wears off!
Modeling the N&W freelanced at the height of their steam era in HO.
Daniel G.
It's very interesting to see all of these comments. I have felt the same way and spent most of my time at train shows looking for the bargains among the old Central Valley Kits and out-of-production items. The do seem to get stale pretty quickly.
There are exceptions ... the big national shows, especially. I realize that we can't get to many of them in our lifetime but they are amazing. Went to the most recent Narrow Gauge convention in Portland, ME, and it was fantastic. All of the manufacturers were there. I promised that I would be good and spend no more than $500. I wasn't very good ... closer to $1000.
I've just switched from HO, after 20 years, to On30 and I have lots of stuff to get rid of. Since I have always been unimpressed with people selling leftovers from their home layouts, I have been selling off all of those out-of-production and craftsman type kits I accumulated but never got to on my own layout. I've also added the less expensive stuff if still in the original box and never touched by me.
I think it's our current economy, that causes most of the shoppers to just "kick tires" rather than buy. Most of my 200 or so Branchline Kits, for example, go for about $10. I've got a couple of FSM kits that have sat through three shows in Sarasota at $50 a piece. Those of us thinning collections and getting rid of personal stock are still out there but there just don't seem to be the buyers in my neck of the woods. Oh well ... I'll be at the next Sarasota meeting in a couple of weeks trying again to get rid of my HO unbuilt kits, etc., trying to finance my new On30 layout. The shows are fun, if nothing else, spending a day or two talking "trains" with like-minded souls. What other chance do I have to spend $10 for two days of that fellowship?
Jim
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Timonium for me will be the best of shows depending on which event is hosted there. Im not sure if I will see another big show there again but it is very good.
I go to one show a year down at the 819 in Pine Bluff. They tend to be rather same content but each year they have had small improvements overall and made things worth seeing and visiting. The possibility of 819 being finished and steamed up at some point in the unknown future is a big draw for me.
Now the tables for me hold a few gems among the usual piles of junk. I suppose I make a list and try to find items on that list. Most of the time I do but they are beyond repair or asking too much for pricing. I can and do get better pricing at either Hobby Shop or Ebay.
Now I do enjoy the show for the people and clubs that come to visit. Never know what a trainshow day holds. Keeping that in mind Im less certain going into such a dangerous city is worth the risk for a day trip of some distance. Particularly if that city has shown little or no improvements in roadways, traffic light patterns and overall neighborhood blight.
That will probably stop my future visits more than likely.
The Internet delivers the really big trainshows with the new announcements and participants who upload photos and information firsthand. Those Ive learned to really spend time on the computer and work the shows to milk them for any infomration or pictures of new products a-coming down the track.
Now THAT's FUN!
Yes, they are much the same from year to year and place to place, but I love them. For me, model railroading is something I do alone - I'd love to belong to a club, but the nearest one is 50 miles away. The shows are a chance to get out and talk to folks with similar interests and answers to my questions. It's the only real social aspect to the hobby there is, for me. Even my LHS is really an RC plane/car store with model railroad stuff in the back. I've never seen anyone but me shopping in the model railroad section.
The shows are a chance for us all to get together. Invigorating is a good way to describe it.
As far as vendors, they vary from some I really like (selling craftsman kits and brass locos) to the plastic extravaganzas - I pass them by (I know a lot of you like plastic stuff on your layouts, but it's not my thing). I often find great deals on ancient parts (got a bundle of 100 GOW bulbs for a buck, a new Sagami motor for $9, a Campbell foundary kit for $20, Kadee #5s for $2 a pack, and an NWSL brass 18ton Shay for $250). I also like buying old issues of magazines (I love Linn Westcott's old editorials)
In terms of livening up the shows, I like the idea of clinics. Maybe a few Q&A guys - like a wiring guru; you could stop by and ask him anything and he'd explain it (a scenery guru, brass loco guru, operations guru, painting guru, and DCC guru would be terrific, too).
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
GTX765 wrote:I am going to the great train expo for my first big show and you guys make it sound like its not worth the $7. Gosh you guys know how to really encourage the noobs to this hobby.
TA462 wrote: loathar wrote:I don't get to attend enough shows for them to be stale. I don't get to socialize with any modelers where I live, so that part alone is worth the price of admission to me. (that, plus all the HOT train groupie chicks!)Loather, you would be surprised how many single moms attend shows with their sons. I've been given a few phone numbers over the years, lol.
loathar wrote:I don't get to attend enough shows for them to be stale. I don't get to socialize with any modelers where I live, so that part alone is worth the price of admission to me. (that, plus all the HOT train groupie chicks!)
Loather, you would be surprised how many single moms attend shows with their sons. I've been given a few phone numbers over the years, lol.
The last show I went to a couple years ago, I WAS surprised at how many lady modelers there were. Quite a few families with daughters that were building layouts too.
My advice is don't go with someone that's not into trains. I went with my brother who looked at his watch the whole time. I could have spent all day there. He was ready to leave after 1/2 an hour.
Dallas Model Works wrote: Is it me or are virtually all train shows the same -- a number of modular club layouts in the middle surrouned by various local retailers peddling the usual crop of Atlas, Athearn, Walthers and Thomas the Tank Engine?Seems that no matter what town I go to, if I've been to one show I've been to all of them. And if I go to the same show the following year, I see pretty much what I saw the previous year.Just once, about 8 years ago, I recall going to show and finding all sorts of small "garage" manufacturers with unique and interesting products for sale. Haven't seen a show like that once since.So my question is two-fold: i) has your experience been the same as mine? and ii) if so, what would you do to liven up the shows?
Is it me or are virtually all train shows the same -- a number of modular club layouts in the middle surrouned by various local retailers peddling the usual crop of Atlas, Athearn, Walthers and Thomas the Tank Engine?
Seems that no matter what town I go to, if I've been to one show I've been to all of them. And if I go to the same show the following year, I see pretty much what I saw the previous year.
Just once, about 8 years ago, I recall going to show and finding all sorts of small "garage" manufacturers with unique and interesting products for sale. Haven't seen a show like that once since.
So my question is two-fold: i) has your experience been the same as mine? and ii) if so, what would you do to liven up the shows?
Well,I have attended shows as a attendee and part seller.
Got a CNN breaking news story..
Today's train shows/swap meets is a far cry from what they was when they first started.As you notice today they are more "commercialized" then they should be..I recall a time when these shows was average joe modelers selling their "excessive baggage" to other modelers and you could actually see highly detailed models and other collections being displayed instead of rows of dealers tables.Now maybe the local hobby shop(s) had a table or two selling/trading their slow moving models at reduce prices.It was a good thing for all.
It would be fun to put the the trains and "swap" back into these shows.
Still..I enjoy these shows because 90% of the time I see old friends and of course the round table discussions over coffee.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
The one and only show I've been to was underwhelming and overwhelming at the same time. I was expecting some great modeling from the club layouts. At the time, I didn't realize that most portable, club layouts aren't as over the top as the large layouts on this forum. I hadn't taken into consideration the term 'portable'. In my defense, I had just started thinking about modeling a month earlier. I didn't know what to expect.
As far as trying to buy stuff, I quickly realized that I didn't know what I was looking at. I had no idea if something was good deal or not. That made half of the show irrelevant to me.
I am looking forward to attending a show this year. With a year of reading this forum, and one layout under my belt, I will know what I'm looking at. I am also excited to see the once thought boring sectional layouts. The layout I'm planning needs to be sectional, so I'm looking for ideas. It's amazing how my perspective has changed in one year.
I have not been to enough shows to comment on whether they are getting stale or not. I will offer this comparison though. If you go to the state fair every year, you will not be excited to go after a few years. Not much changes after a while.
BRAKIE wrote: Dallas Model Works wrote: Is it me or are virtually all train shows the same -- a number of modular club layouts in the middle surrouned by various local retailers peddling the usual crop of Atlas, Athearn, Walthers and Thomas the Tank Engine?Seems that no matter what town I go to, if I've been to one show I've been to all of them. And if I go to the same show the following year, I see pretty much what I saw the previous year.Just once, about 8 years ago, I recall going to show and finding all sorts of small "garage" manufacturers with unique and interesting products for sale. Haven't seen a show like that once since.So my question is two-fold: i) has your experience been the same as mine? and ii) if so, what would you do to liven up the shows? Well,I have attended shows as a attendee and part seller.Got a CNN breaking news story.. Today's train shows/swap meets is a far cry from what they was when they first started.As you notice today they are more "commercialized" then they should be..I recall a time when these shows was average joe modelers selling their "excessive baggage" to other modelers and you could actually see highly detailed models and other collections being displayed instead of rows of dealers tables.Now maybe the local hobby shop(s) had a table or two selling/trading their slow moving models at reduce prices.It was a good thing for all.It would be fun to put the the trains and "swap" back into these shows.Still..I enjoy these shows because 90% of the time I see old friends and of course the round table discussions over coffee.
This commercialization of train shows, with booths peopled by many dealers and the nickel and diming of participants with overpriced food, parking, etc, are the things that have turned me off of train shows. Unfortunately, most shows are held outside of major metropolitan areas where you must drive. Heck, if I wanted to see or buy what is currently available I can go online for free and buy at a substantial discount. Unfortunately, this trend is also the norm in open air flee markets as the majority of booths are manned by dealers palming off inferior no-name merchandise. The main purpose for me to go to train shows or flee markets is to look for out of production merchandise and odd items not available commercially. At train shows I prefer to see regular hobbyists (aka. people who model for enjoyment with little commercial interest) showing their models and layouts or selling their unwanted equipment.
One thing that has struck me about a lot of these shows -- and I certainly didn't mean to include every show as there are some good ones -- is the lack of contests and craftsmanship on display.
One table of really nicely bulit models would be enough to satisfy me.
The layouts on display sometimes inspire, but I think that due to the necessity of being easily transported they don't always represent the best instances of modelling and skill.
On a related note, the best thing I find at trains shows are really crappy, toy-like freight cars for one or two dollars -- I use them to experiment with weathering techniques before trying them on a $23 InterMountain car!
Craig
DMW
If I had to transport models 2 hours by road to a show on broken concrete, gravel and fight traffic forget it.
I'll shut up here because people tranpost entire layout modules on the same roads successfully =)
I agree about the 1.00 cars. They are useful as raw material for experiments that may or may not work out well.
Dallas Model Works wrote:One thing that has struck me about a lot of these shows -- and I certainly didn't mean to include every show as there are some good ones -- is the lack of contests and craftsmanship on display.One table of really nicely bulit models would be enough to satisfy me.The layouts on display sometimes inspire, but I think that due to the necessity of being easily transported they don't always represent the best instances of modelling and skill.On a related note, the best thing I find at trains shows are really crappy, toy-like freight cars for one or two dollars -- I use them to experiment with weathering techniques before trying them on a $23 InterMountain car!
Soo Line fan wrote: I am convinced that some of these guys are using the table and transportation fees as tax write offs. Jim
I am convinced that some of these guys are using the table and transportation fees as tax write offs.
Jim, if they're not, they're stupid.
Craig, to answer question number 1, yes.
Ray
The last train show I attended was a three hour trip each way, and traffic leaving town was horrendous. But I was there for most of the day.
I found some stuff I'd been looking for, and at a very reasonable price.
I'm planning to be in Louisville this spring, though that is about a 5 hour drive each way, which means spending the night, making it a fairly expensive trip (I'll have to find a lot of good buys to justify the trip ).
Wish we had closer-to-home train shows; the last one here was the one that got me interested in switching to n-scale after I saw some of the layouts, but that has been several years ago.
It was a lot of fun for me.
I went to a train show today. It was mostly the usual. I did come away with a sweet brass railbus ($50!). There was one feature I've never seen before: A 1 1/2 inch scale live steam loco running indoors! They used compressed air to pressurize the boiler and ran a long hose to a compressor. The loco went back and forth on about 30 feet of track. The kids at the show loved it! So did I.
There was also a continuously running demonstration of an automatic signalling ststem that works with DCC - very impressive (I'm a DC modeler, so DCC impresses me anyway). There was also a display of brass models representing a lot of the Union Pacific roster over the years. A sign said the models represent all of the prototypes that are either operating or stored in operational condition. They were beatifully painted and realistically weathered.
It was a good time with lots of good conversation. For me, that made it worth the 180 mile round trip.
In terms of oportunities most have dried up. The vendors are there to make money and have realized some of us don't know what we are buying motivating them to charge a little extra. There is an asian guy who insists this caboose he has should sell for $15, N scale, and I have offered him $10 on many occasions yet he still has it.
Some of the layouts have been a little lacking. The scenery may be ok but there are no figures or anything on them sometimes. I sure would like to see a full on operations session at a show one day. Of coarse there would have to be a very large staging area so a contant feed of different trains could be obtained.
Clinics or simple boothes to share better practices and share information on the different aspects of the hobby. Kind of like a science fair with a board explaining DCC one for scenery techniques, structure building, etc...
John
TA462 wrote: Dallas Model Works wrote: The layouts on display sometimes inspire, but I think that due to the necessity of being easily transported they don't always represent the best instances of modelling and skill. I don't know about that. I've seen a number of very nice "portable" layouts with incredible amounts of detail. One layout that comes to mind is the Peterborough Model Railroaders club layout. Their craftsmanship is probably the best I've seen on any portable layout.
Dallas Model Works wrote: The layouts on display sometimes inspire, but I think that due to the necessity of being easily transported they don't always represent the best instances of modelling and skill.
I don't know about that. I've seen a number of very nice "portable" layouts with incredible amounts of detail. One layout that comes to mind is the Peterborough Model Railroaders club layout. Their craftsmanship is probably the best I've seen on any portable layout.
Well, as I said, sometimes inspire...
To be fair, in my mind I'm comparing the modelling I see to what I see at armour shows as well (which is strictly about craftsmanship and needn't worry about things like operability and portability).
well, although most of the bigger shows will have mod layouts and vendors, what else were you looking for. -no dancing girls! i'm glad you found a unique vendor once but part of this hobby is looking for stuff. like the stack of detail parts that I saw at the Springfield train show yesterday.... oooooooohhh yeah I'm about to post my convo with an Athearn exec. I won't post his name although, I did get it. -RUMORS DISPELLED!
and if you don't find what you were looking for maybe you scratch build it!
Hi! I don't think they are getting "stale", I think that the more shows one sees, the less real "finds" (treasures) are there. Years ago, I remember being able to "look under" many of the tables but now, the older stuff is on display with non-negotiable price tags. Just my .
I'll let you know when I get home from Timonium next Saturday!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net