Tomorrow I'm going to the Great Train Show at the Pittsburgh Expo-mart and I could use some advice. I went to this same show last year with the wifey and my 2 yr old,
but there was SO much to see that I feel I missed most of it because we got there late and having family in tow distracted me from taking my time and talking to people. Just SO much to see, this place is hugh.
Anyhow, I'm looking for some advice for going to these train shows. I really don't even know what I'm looking to find out, maybe just some experiences, pit falls to watch out for, is haggling prices common practice? Any advice anyone could give will be helpful I'm sure.
Thanks people.
I don't get to go to very many shows but these are a couple of rules I try to remember to follow.
When in awe of the modelling genius I see. I try not too look like too much of a rube standing there with my mouth hanging open catching flies.
When looking at all the stuff for sale I try not to drool on the guys table.
Other than that, I take the family and have fun, take pictures and or video of what inspires. Luckily wifey understands that Dad can't be expected to be responsible when in train overload mode.
I'm lucky enough to have a wife that really understands. She takes the kids and Dad takes the camera. I don't buy a whole lot at shows. As a newbie, I'm really there to talk to the modelers and get ideas for my layout, you know, pick their brains. Even though the show layouts are modular and sometimes lack the detail of a home layout, I often find some really cool ideas that I can bring home!
Just have fun!
Generally at the biggest shows like the GATS shows the sellers aren't offering things at bargain prices. In my area (Mpls-St.Paul) the non-show flea markets sponsored by the Twin City Model RR Club and the Newport Model RR Club generally have more bargains. Unless I find some hard-to-find item I've been looking for, I generally just enjoy the displays and operating sectional layouts and such and don't worry about buying stuff - which might be especially good if you have the family with you. The last GATS in December I think I spent about $30 on a couple of freight cars I had been looking for, I gave the sellers a once-over but mainly just enjoyed the experience.
As for haggling, it depends. I don't think most sellers would be offended or anything if you made them a reasonable offer. If there's some particular item you're looking for, it never hurts to keep an eye on online sellers and ebay to get a ballpark idea of what it's selling for. Plus there's an advantage to going to regular (quarterly) flea markets in that you get to know the sellers and what they have for offer. If a seller has a particular passenger car or book or whatever marked at $33 and it's been in his display for two or three shows with no takers, an offer of $25 to take it off his hands would have a better chance at success than trying to get a reduced price on a new item that just arrived.
Taking the family depends on whether you are just going to look or if you are there to buy something.
I go by myself because I go through the whole show down all the aisles taking note on who has the better prices and the things I'm looking for.
Once through I go back to the places I saw the best prices or where there was a hard to find item and make the purchase.
You may be able to haggle with some of the people that bring their stuff from home. But the guy's that bring new stuff that usually comes from hobby shops won't deal.
Last year I found new Athearn RTR wood pulp cars for $5. At the LHS they wanted more than $15 each. So bargans can be found. You just have to look around.
Bill
My first bit of advice would be to try and enjoy yourself. If you are an impulse buyer (like I once was, recovered), it would help to take a list of things you are looking for. Have some idea of what items sell for (new). Don't pay more for used items than you would for new. Walk and preview the ENTIRE show before spending dime one. It isn't uncommon to buy something at the first tables at first entrance only to find it on the other side of the room for 20-30 percent less (or more). There won't be anything there that cannot be had elsewhere with a possible exception of paper (photos, slides, maps, schedules, etc). Any locomotives you buy (even new), test them Before leaving the show. If at all possible test them before buying them. Any vendors selling new items (probably most of them), get contact info and ask about potential problems and their policy regarding returns. Any Used stuff you buy, check it thoroughly. Check opened building kits for instructions, broken parts, missing parts (as much as is reasonable), etc.
Some people like to go in the final hours of shows figuring that these vendors don't want to carry this stuff home and bargains can be had. The REAL bargains are usually snapped up before the show even opens by the other vendors. Still don't be afraid to ask for a better price. Don't get rude or demanding about it, just ask. They can say no, you can keep your money in your pocket, they can carry their precious items back home with them.
Now for some advice to make it more enjoyable for the people around you. At the risk of sounding rude, leave Junior with a babysitter. Nothing is more annoying at one of these events than a screaming kid, or a huge stroller blocking the aisle, or both.
If you take nothing else I said seriously, follow this one.. Walk and preview the ENTIRE show before spending dime one.
Have fun..
What I like to do is make two trips to the show, one with wife (I don't have kids) and a return trip, alone. This is only if my wife wants to go at all. That way I can enjoy some model train time with her at her pace and level of interest; when I return I engage in conversations about how to make a railbus out of a Jordan school bus, or painting a brass shay, or...
The key here is to remember that if you bring guests, they have to be your primary interest; that alters the train show experience. My wife likes cute stuff, and she points out little cottages and "gingerbreadish" passenger cars. I find it is best to validate her and respond that they look sweet, and that they are well made. I'll point out details that I admire and thus help her to understand what I like in the hobby. I assume that it would be similar with kids; validate their interests and also show them how things are done at a more advanced level - but don't lose them in the technical details. Never ignore them while you converse with other adults.
One other thing, be very respectful of the work that is on display. These are modelers who have the courage to put it out there for God and everyone to see (I'm not sure I could do that). Make them feel good for having done so. Simply saying "Nice work" goes a long way; it's even better if you ask them to share their methods - that's real validation (and you can learn a lot).
Regarding haggling, I ask the seller if the price is negotiable. Their answer determines my next step. I do think price negotiation is common, because they usually give me a discount if I don't suggest negotiation; my sense is that the marked price includes room to be talked down.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
Make sure you talk condensending to all the people you come in contact with
Buy the first thing you see and like
ALWAYS pay retail+ for any items you want
Always tell people that you have what they have but ONE or TWO more than they
Never try to talk anyone down in price no matter what
Bump hard into every old man that is not looking where they are going
Walk around with a blank stare to startle others
Lastly Go around telling people what they should have bought when they operating their quipment. People enjoy that whole lot and appreciate your opinion.
If you follow these handful of simple rules it will guarantee a successful day at ANY train show!! Good luck!!
I found this to be true for most shows.
1.Take your time! Don't rush through the show overlooking the better buys.
2.Look under the front of the dealer's table..That's where you will find the deals..Remember tables cost the dealer money.He/she wants you to see his/her higher price items that's why they are on the table top.
3.Comparision shop between dealers.Never,ever buy the first time around.Make 2 trips looking over the mechanise while comparing prices.The first trip your eyes take in all the "eye candy" and overlooks the better buys.
4.Relex and allow the excitement to wear off...Have a cup of coffee or soft drink maybe a bite to eat.
5.Start your buying round and be sure to haggle with the dealer..Remember a discount sale beats a no sale.
6.Be realistic in your first and counter offer.In other words don't insult the dealer's intelligence.He knows exactly how much he has in that item and how much he can sell it for.
7.Don't be afraid to offer a locomotive you no longer want as a trade in.The dealer just might have a customer looking for that engine.
As I mention I found the above works 99% of the time.As a former part time dealer I fully believe a "haggled" deal beat a no sale especially on a slow day and a dealer can have a slow day at the larger shows just like he/she does at the smaller shows.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
AltoonaRailroader wrote: Tomorrow I'm going to the Great Train Show at the Pittsburgh Expo-mart and I could use some advice. I went to this same show last year with the wifey and my 2 yr old, but there was SO much to see that I feel I missed most of it because we got there late and having family in tow distracted me from taking my time and talking to people. Just SO much to see, this place is hugh. Anyhow, I'm looking for some advice for going to these train shows. I really don't even know what I'm looking to find out, maybe just some experiences, pit falls to watch out for, is haggling prices common practice? Any advice anyone could give will be helpful I'm sure. Thanks people.
Thanks for the great advice everyone, especially Andies Candies, LOL. Just to clarify the little princess and the wifey will NOT be going this year for some and most of the reasons you all posted here. I think my wife would like to go but sometimes I just need some time with the guys. Myself and a long lost friend I just found out was in to MRR ( YES!!!) and a buddy of his are starting out at the crack of dawn tomorrow morning for Pittsburgh, should be a nice day. I already have a "wish list" started to try and keep me grounded, I am an impulse buyer so it's kinda of tough. I have learned on my own that great bargins can be found on the floor right at your feet. This is a giant place and I have all day so I will be sure to take my time and take it all in before buying, and I need to remember my camera. Maybe the wife will let me take her good one so I can get some good pics of the displays.
Wish me luck, I'll report on how I make out if you're interested.
Andies Candy wrote:Make sure you talk condensending to all the people you come in contact withBuy the first thing you see and likeALWAYS pay retail+ for any items you wantAlways tell people that you have what they have but ONE or TWO more than theyNever try to talk anyone down in price no matter whatBump hard into every old man that is not looking where they are goingWalk around with a blank stare to startle othersLastly Go around telling people what they should have bought when they operating their quipment. People enjoy that whole lot and appreciate your opinion.If you follow these handful of simple rules it will guarantee a successful day at ANY train show!! Good luck!!
So that was You?
Andies Candy wrote: Make sure you talk condensending to all the people you come in contact withBuy the first thing you see and likeALWAYS pay retail+ for any items you wantAlways tell people that you have what they have but ONE or TWO more than theyNever try to talk anyone down in price no matter whatBump hard into every old man that is not looking where they are goingWalk around with a blank stare to startle othersLastly Go around telling people what they should have bought when they operating their quipment. People enjoy that whole lot and appreciate your opinion.If you follow these handful of simple rules it will guarantee a successful day at ANY train show!! Good luck!!
You forgot to add:
Be completely impatient with anyone in your way, especially those that are trying to make an enjoyable family day out of it and just happen to have a small child in a stroller. (Like I did last year) But people were nice, at least I didn't see any sour faces.
That is definitely one that I missed!!! I am the same way maybe that is why I missed to mention that one. I am so impatient that when I go to a train show I am naturally Always in a hurry. When a couple or family is lolly gagging walking and then blocking the way for me to pass I make loud noises to startle them and make them aware I am TRYING to pass by. Well you know what they say
IMpatients is a virtue, or something like that.
Eat BEFORE you go.
Take more $$$ than you can possably spend.
Leave anyone NOT interested in trains at home.
Tell all the vendors you can get that item for 1/2 price on the Internet!(they love to hear stuff like that!)
If you need any oddball stuff, make sure you take a list and measurements of what you need.
One small suggestion...every show at the Expomart draws a number of dealers who bring the same old or used items that they've had at the last ten shows. It seems to me that they're always asking way too much and many don't seem the least bit interested in making a sale. My friends and I wonder how they even justify their expenses when you rarely see them sell anything! I would suggest being careful about dealing with those folks.
At the same time, there are a number of very good dealers who bring a lot of new products at very good prices. I've found most of them to be reputable and willing to help potential customers. It's pretty easy to see the difference between the dealers with brand new products compared to the ones selling used stuff that I mentioned earlier.
I'd suggest going to the far end of the hall where the layouts are and work your way back to the front since it gets very crowded there when the show opens.
Are you looking for anything specific?
Jim
Eat BEFORE you go. Check
Take more $$$ than you can possably spend. Eh, I could always have more.
Leave anyone NOT interested in trains at home. Check, just me and the boys
Tell all the vendors you can get that item for 1/2 price on the Internet!(they love to hear stuff like that!" border="0" width="15" height="15" />) Check, LOL
If you need any oddball stuff, make sure you take a list and measurements of what you need. No Check, need to measure some spaces on the layout for building spaces
ctyclsscs wrote: One small suggestion...every show at the Expomart draws a number of dealers who bring the same old or used items that they've had at the last ten shows. It seems to me that they're always asking way too much and many don't seem the least bit interested in making a sale. My friends and I wonder how they even justify their expenses when you rarely see them sell anything! I would suggest being careful about dealing with those folks. At the same time, there are a number of very good dealers who bring a lot of new products at very good prices. I've found most of them to be reputable and willing to help potential customers. It's pretty easy to see the difference between the dealers with brand new products compared to the ones selling used stuff that I mentioned earlier. I'd suggest going to the far end of the hall where the layouts are and work your way back to the front since it gets very crowded there when the show opens. Are you looking for anything specific?Jim
Thanks for the insight to this particular show Jim. Nothing too specific. I need a few buildings and some Code 83 RH and LH switches.
At least this year I'll be armed with better knowledge of the different manufacturers and prices. I do a lot of shopping around, because I'm not rich enough to buy what I want all the time, so I have a good idea of what prices should be. I guess I'll just take my list and see what else catches my eye.
Andies Candy wrote:The rules I stated are really funny but even funnier is the fact that some people actually do alot of those things and it is so annoying you know? Still it is funny advice to take. LOL
Yeah..But,you forgot one important thing..
Baby buggies!
You know how they smash into your ankle while holding a $250.00 engine?
Seems to me there must be a point system to "ankle bashing" and there is two classes.Double wide and single.
Let's see then:Look! There's stands a guy with a bad right paw holding a $250.00 engine! 50 points for the first boucing baby buggy ankle basher to bash 'im!
selector wrote:Might be a good idea to at least get a business card if you buy something "hand-made" or unusual from someone. I had a skeleton car turn out to be a dud, and it cost me exactly what it looked like it was worth....a lot. Trouble was, who ya gonna call?
Very good idea!
I am still wondering to go or not. The problem is the are cuttting hours at work, and the pay check will look bad. Plus, I just spent $75.00 on eBay getting cars. I think I rather go when I have some money. The wife already said "I know you will be mad if you don't go with alot of money , and don't get to buy alot." So...... I guess it depends on the money for bills and etc.
I've never been to a train show. This one is about a hour away. I would love to go and see what goes on and maybe when it comes back in July I know what to expect. I think this is a good topic, as far as to what to look for, and what to ask about.
"Rust, whats not to love?"
secondhandmodeler wrote:Make sure you don't ask any stupid questions!
I thought there weren't any stupid questions.................just stupid people. LOL
Robby P. wrote: I am still wondering to go or not. The problem is the are cuttting hours at work, and the pay check will look bad. Plus, I just spent $75.00 on eBay getting cars. I think I rather go when I have some money. The wife already said "I know you will be mad if you don't go with alot of money , and don't get to buy alot." So...... I guess it depends on the money for bills and etc. I've never been to a train show. This one is about a hour away. I would love to go and see what goes on and maybe when it comes back in July I know what to expect. I think this is a good topic, as far as to what to look for, and what to ask about.
Hey Robby, I'm going with less that $200 and I live over two hours away, and although I have stuff in mind that I would like to get, I'm really going just be there. Just to see everything, maybe pic some brains, basically ingulf myself in it all for a day. Can't get enough ya know? So I would say if you can spare the work time to at least go and check it out, especially if you haven't made this one yet. It's only a couple bucks to get in too. I've been looking forward to this all week.
In addition to what's already posted:
1. Pick your clothes for indoors. A base layer, a fleece pullover, and a nylon shell wil keep you warm to the teens while walking in from your parking spot, and the nylon shell will pack real small, leaving you comfortable, not sweating bullets inside the show.
2. Wear a backpack big enough to hold the thing you plan to buy, plus your nylon shell.
3. Jerky or some nuts might save you a trip to the ER over a bad hot dog that costs $27 at the "lunch stand".
I wish to emphasize the advice to not buy anything until you have been through the whole show... not one dime until you have seen all the sale tables. PLEASE!
That way, when I get there late, I can have access to the good deals while you are still wandering around not buying anything, yet. THANKS!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
If your train shows are like ours (Utah) I think you'll find it worthwhile to attend even if you don't buy anything. Our next one is in Utah County at Thanksgiving Point on January 26. Last year there were about a dozen layouts and a gazillion model railroaders. I feel like the best thing I get from attending these is the advice and perspective of the other modelers.
Some things that I've found at bargain prices are craftsman structure kits - at the shows they often sell for about half of what they sell for on eBay. Also, Kadee couplers are often half the catalog price. Old MR issues are usually about 50 cents (good reading). Brass detail parts are often priced well, but there aren't too may to be had.
Be careful about bargain priced tools - often these look good, but the quality is not there and they don't last. I did find one guy selling brand new dental burrs for a buck each - I love those! At a buck each, I was thrilled. In case you've never tried dental burrs, let me tell you - my Dremel has done some amazing work with these in the chuck; they are super sharp and cut like a laser through everything from plastic to brass. They stay sharp and provide terrific control.
Go to the show and have fun. Don't overspend. Talk to everyone you can!
RP:
The thing to remember is that every train show has pretty much the same stuff. As long as you keep that in mind, you can resist the urge to buy EVERYTHING. You can always get what you missed later on.
Just take $10 or so to spend and have some fun. Attempt to engage the socially inept train loonies in conversation (I can say this because I am one), observe the operating layouts, and so on.
Sometimes I find it helpful to set a goal for merchandise acquisition. This year, I was looking for cheap tank cars and possibly a caboose, and I was busy enough trying to find some I liked that I didn't really notice the boxcars etc. that I passed up.
I don't usually buy new stuff. I leave that to people with more money. I can always get that at the model shop or online, anyhow.
Possibly the best thing you can spend $10 is 10 back issues of MR or RMC from the 40s-70s. You will be amazed at the useful information contained therein. That alone is a good reason to attend shows.