From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Actually Atlas has held the line on their pricing in my estimation. In large scale Aristo Craft announced a price increase on their track and switches quite a few months ago. That would include brass and stainless track and switches. After the initial shock of their announcement and the outcry, prices were adjusted down a bit. Other manufacturers have also increased prices in nickel silver track.
The cost of the metals used in making the track is the reason as was stated earlier. The track is made under a contract at a set price for a period of time. When the contarct expires, a new contract is made and pricing will change as the market price on the metals needed has changed.
Has absolutely nothing to do with manufacture origination...anyone check the price of oil lately? Petro products are used in model manufacturing.
Now, we institute a "fair tax", ala Huckabee, and the price increases further! Amen.
tomikawaTT wrote: Having taken Economics 101 and Marketing 101, I can appreciate where Atlas is coming from and where they have to go. I can also appreciate that they were sufficiently up front to give us fair warning.
Having taken Economics 101 and Marketing 101, I can appreciate where Atlas is coming from and where they have to go. I can also appreciate that they were sufficiently up front to give us fair warning.
TTT:
True enough, but then I realize that, adjusted for inflation, Atlas C100 HO NS turnouts cost ~7% more now than they did in 1990, and that those 1990 turnouts were made in the US to much better tolerances than Atlas has now, I suddenly lose that appreciation.
Here's an idea. Raise the price just a bit more, take control of production by moving it back here, and start making a consistent and reliable product. I'd be a lot more willing to pay $15 for excellence than $12 for mediocrity. I wouldn't want them to be another ME or Shinohara. I just think there is a market for rugged, reliable track components, stuff that works out of the box without too-high frogs or track out of gauge, and that can be taken up and relaid many times without damage to ultrafine detail...like those they made their name on. They need to return to that.
One reason I would guess that this material price increase will hurt Atlas more then the other is because that the material cost can't be much different in between brands, basically the same amount of material is used to produce Shinohara as Atlas. So if the price goes up with say 1+ cents for material in each the increase in cost won't be as much by percentage on the more expensive track. Basically, if Atlas goes to 4$ each and ME goes to 7$ from 6$ that is in favour of ME.
Just a thought.
Magnus
Well,I have enough equipment to last me till my dying day-Wishful thinking that seeing I like a lot of the newer road names. I have three club layouts to run trains on so,I don't need to build a home layout.Yeah,right that's why I am looking for a space to build a small ISL.
Well in all truth I will continue to buy what I like or feel I must have at the best discount I can find.
I suppose all the manufacturers will follow suit.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Bob Berger, C.O.O. N-ovation & Northwestern R.R. My patio layout....SEE IT HERE
There's no place like ~/ ;)
I use Atlas Code 83 Track. I buy flex track in the box of 100. I like to stock up on materials as I no longer have a LHS where I can go pick up the pieces I need. I have been planning on expanding the layout by developing a large staging yard. Last week I ordered another box of 100 Code 83 flex track and about a dozen turnouts. I have a MRR budget so it will be a while before I buy any more locomotives and rolling stock. I gues this will be motivation to get on with the layout construction.
JIM
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Teditor wrote: I'm curious as to why there has been no response to my suggestion to remove the word 'Sharply' from the original heading, also curious why everyone has gone quiet?
I'm curious as to why there has been no response to my suggestion to remove the word 'Sharply' from the original heading, also curious why everyone has gone quiet?
Just guessing, but I'd assume it was because you posted in what was the middle of the night on this side of the pond.
There seemed to be plenty of opinions and knowledgeboxes before my statements.
Not trying to start a flame, just curious why people are afraid of the truth being told and/or only reading what they want to read into something.
Teditor.
Teditor
I think in fairness to Atlas, the heading of this topic should have the word Sharply removed, "That was NOT Atlas statement!".
egmurphy wrote: riogrande5761 wrote: The reality is, everyone is affected by the same materials and shipping cost increases and everyone will be passing them along or rationalizing it somehow. ..... Atlas just "announced it" formally. The rest are doing it, just more quietly. Atlas probably should have just kept quiet and done like everyone else - instead they are getting flack for it in the forums. Agreed. Even better on Atlas's part, their announcement comes 4 weeks ahead of the actual increase, giving modelers contemplating a purchase of track materials to order now before the increase. I wonder how many other manufacturers will do the same? The announcement says: "Because the increase will not go into effect until February 2, 2008, there is still time to order at the current prices. " Finally, I'd like to point out that despite the title of the thread, the announcement does not say that Atlas prices will sharply increase. It actually says: "In particular, worldwide commodity prices, especially oil and metals, foreign exchange rates, and traditional labor and benefit costs have taken a sharp rise which will cause us to increase our prices in early 2008." RegardsEd
riogrande5761 wrote: The reality is, everyone is affected by the same materials and shipping cost increases and everyone will be passing them along or rationalizing it somehow. ..... Atlas just "announced it" formally. The rest are doing it, just more quietly. Atlas probably should have just kept quiet and done like everyone else - instead they are getting flack for it in the forums.
Agreed. Even better on Atlas's part, their announcement comes 4 weeks ahead of the actual increase, giving modelers contemplating a purchase of track materials to order now before the increase. I wonder how many other manufacturers will do the same? The announcement says: "Because the increase will not go into effect until February 2, 2008, there is still time to order at the current prices. "
Finally, I'd like to point out that despite the title of the thread, the announcement does not say that Atlas prices will sharply increase. It actually says: "In particular, worldwide commodity prices, especially oil and metals, foreign exchange rates, and traditional labor and benefit costs have taken a sharp rise which will cause us to increase our prices in early 2008."
Regards
Ed
Amen, honesty is NOT always the best policy, but it wins my vote, try living down under and see how the prices get affected.
Good on you for your honesty Atlas, unfortunately some people 'only read' what they want into something.
I suspect the falling dollar is the biggest culprit here.
Feb 4th, 2008
Dear Customers: Due to market conditions, we are pleased to announce, we will not be raising prices afterall. Thanks for the flood of orders.
This might slow down some of my construction to keep it within budget. It won't stop me from using Atlas flex.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
egmurphy wrote: New Haven I-5 wrote: Does this apply to their locomotives??The announcement above says "The increase will affect all Atlas track, structures, layouts and accessories." Doesn't mention rolling stock or locomotives.
New Haven I-5 wrote: Does this apply to their locomotives??
The announcement above says "The increase will affect all Atlas track, structures, layouts and accessories." Doesn't mention rolling stock or locomotives.
Good catch, though I doubt we're that lucky. There's probably more metal in an engine than the track.
-Morgan
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 wrote: accord1959 wrote:Well the answer is, buy from a cheaper source, the reason most producers of MR equipment are around today is because to survive in todays market you have to produce quality, if Atlas feels it has to increase its already higher prices to compete, then they will be the ones to suffer. There are so many other producers of quality equipment out there that we need not be held hostage by Atlas. People act like Atlas is now going down the tubes and everyone else is fine. The reality is, everyone is affected by the same materials and shipping cost increases and everyone will be passing them along or rationalizing it somehow. That means KATO, Walthers/P2K, Atlas, Athearn/Genesis etc etc. I noticed for example that the 89' flat cars walthers offered went up in price between first and second runs. Atlas just "announced it" formally. The rest are doing it, just more quietly. Atlas probably should have just kept quiet and done like everyone else - instead they are getting flack for it in the forums....
accord1959 wrote:Well the answer is, buy from a cheaper source, the reason most producers of MR equipment are around today is because to survive in todays market you have to produce quality, if Atlas feels it has to increase its already higher prices to compete, then they will be the ones to suffer. There are so many other producers of quality equipment out there that we need not be held hostage by Atlas.
People act like Atlas is now going down the tubes and everyone else is fine. The reality is, everyone is affected by the same materials and shipping cost increases and everyone will be passing them along or rationalizing it somehow. That means KATO, Walthers/P2K, Atlas, Athearn/Genesis etc etc. I noticed for example that the 89' flat cars walthers offered went up in price between first and second runs. Atlas just "announced it" formally. The rest are doing it, just more quietly. Atlas probably should have just kept quiet and done like everyone else - instead they are getting flack for it in the forums.
...
Unfortunately true. S Helper has raised boxcar and hopper prices this past fall. I'm sure other products will follow.
Paul
For those of us who may have a limited funds, it simply means we might be buying 5 freight cars from Atlas every few months rather than 6 or 7. I don't actually buy alot of Atlas rolling stock because it caters to the east coast RR's but I do buy some. I'll be buying all four numbers of the new TTAX Trailer Train flats for example. I just tend to be choosy an limit purchases to items I can identify as typical freight cars on my RR and time period.
Robby P. wrote:I bought some flex track today (Atlas) and she said that there prices went up to $3.85 each. Its crazy how oil, metals, etc has affected this hobby.
Boy, that sure makes me glad I saved all my flex track and turnouts from my last basement layout. It would cost me a small fortune to replace it all what with a lot of code 83 and code 100 flex, a booty of #8 curved Walthers and Shinohara turnouts etc etc. I'll probably need to buy more track when I plan and build another layout but at least I'll have a huge head start!
Driline wrote: riogrande5761 wrote: Driline wrote:Might as well make the stuff in the USA if prices are going to climb that high. Looks like the Chinese have finally outpriced themselves I'm thinking the cheap chinese labor still make it more economical despite the crappy US dollar and the increased fuel prices - for now.Lucky for me (or not) Atlas rarely makes a loco I need - Rio Grande being all EMD during the late 60's to 1990. I am buying some rolling stock like the new 89' flat cars, which I notice are MSRP $32!!! But I'll get my usualy 30% off from my pusher.Man, my pusher only gives me 20% off. Whos you're pusher when I need a train fix?
riogrande5761 wrote: Driline wrote:Might as well make the stuff in the USA if prices are going to climb that high. Looks like the Chinese have finally outpriced themselves I'm thinking the cheap chinese labor still make it more economical despite the crappy US dollar and the increased fuel prices - for now.Lucky for me (or not) Atlas rarely makes a loco I need - Rio Grande being all EMD during the late 60's to 1990. I am buying some rolling stock like the new 89' flat cars, which I notice are MSRP $32!!! But I'll get my usualy 30% off from my pusher.
Driline wrote:Might as well make the stuff in the USA if prices are going to climb that high. Looks like the Chinese have finally outpriced themselves
I'm thinking the cheap chinese labor still make it more economical despite the crappy US dollar and the increased fuel prices - for now.
Lucky for me (or not) Atlas rarely makes a loco I need - Rio Grande being all EMD during the late 60's to 1990. I am buying some rolling stock like the new 89' flat cars, which I notice are MSRP $32!!! But I'll get my usualy 30% off from my pusher.
I use Tom's Trains of Connecticuit - I live in upstate NY. Tom generally gives about 30% off most stuff.
http://www.tomstrains.com/
He has been pretty good to work with and aside from some train show purchases, I've bought almost everything else via Tom for the past several years. I usually just send him an email to orders stuff. I should have a box coming soon with another SD40T-2 (SP) and a couple 5-packs of Athearn RTR Thrall coal gons and Walthers 89' flat cars (KTTX and RTTX).
That really effect my planing, when I compare prices, shipping and so on to Sweden this might just be enough to drive me back to Roco or Peco. It simply eats at the margins.
Nickel silver is an alloy of copper, zinc and nickel. Copper is selling for over $3/lb and nickel is up there at over $12.50/lb. Zinc's at about $1.13/lb.
Andre
"Rust, whats not to love?"
Man, my pusher only gives me 20% off. Whos you're pusher when I need a train fix?
Might as well make the stuff in the USA if prices are going to climb that high. Looks like the Chinese have finally outpriced themselves
Chinese currency is pegged to the dollar basically - when we go down they go down and vice-versa. It's been one of the perennial complaints. Unfortunately it means that a crappy dollar does NOT mean that manufacturing will come back to the US.