Long ago it was suggested using the prototypical cut levers that should be on each car. These would be modified to push the coupler or the knuckle in the opening direction. Then, just squeezing the cut levers towards each other would uncouple the cars.
While this does require modifying cars (and couplers) a bit, it eliminates the need for the simulated air hose on Kadee couplers. It is also cheaper than installing the realistic Sergent couplers.
It is true that this would still require a hand in the scene, but at least that would somewhat simulate the prototype uncoupling method.
Don M.
I used Kadee magnets and I have still a few. For some places I made moveable magnets. But I worked with other tools like bamboo skewer and this:
Don't touch the cars!
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
J Campbell wrote: Texas Zepher wrote:Nowhere in the real world does one see a curved wire hanging down from a coupler.I know, I know...rookie question, but...what the heck are those wires for, anyway? Are they specifically for magnetic uncoupling?
Texas Zepher wrote:Nowhere in the real world does one see a curved wire hanging down from a coupler.
wedudler wrote: I worked with other tools
~ Jason
I've been using both magnets and sticks for uncoupling on a number of layouts in the Colorado area. The magnets are great when you can't reach the particular area, but they cause many a problem when pulling trains across the magnets; there are just too many unplanned uncouplings! Also, the stopping, reversing to remove slack, going forward, reversing again to initiate the delayed action does not seem at all prototypical to me.
I have a "lifetime supply" of uncoupling tools, one bag of shish kabob skewers from my local grocer. I keep the sharpened end a bit rough on the taper so that it "grabs" a bit better than the smooth sided point.
At the Denver HO Club, at the Colorado Rail Museum, in Golden, Colorado, we had a bit of controversy over the "hands off" and "hands on" mode of operations. We solved it to both factions' needs and that is described in the article below. The pictures/sketches won't copy into the post, but I will send an MS word doc to anyone who requests it. Please send requests to flabor@ix.netcom.com, with the subject, UNCOUPLER. Enjoy.
Article: Out of Controversy, Comes Invention!
Denver HO Model Railroad Club, Removable Uncoupling System
Author: Frank Labor
Over the past 2 years, there have been some discussions regarding the operation of trains in "Hands Off" and "Hands On" modes.
Hands Off Mode has been defined as not touching the trains, cars, turnouts, or couplers with your hand or any other hand held device.
Hands On Mode has been defined as allowing touching of trains, cars, turnouts or couplers with your hand or a hand held devise.
Both systems have their proponents and advantages. With Hands Off Mode, there is no BGH, (Big Giant Hand) reaching into the layout. The trains maintain their scale and no "higher being" is seen interfering with or touching the scale models. This mode requires a means of remotely operated turnouts and uncouplers.
For the Hands On Mode, the Big Giant Hand is used for setting turnouts and uncoupling the trains. This mode allows hand operation of turnouts and, for uncoupling, the standard uncoupling tools (aka shish kabob skewers) are standard equipment.
So the controversy had to be settled in order to satisfy the needs and wants of both groups, without interfering with or negatively impacting the other modes of operation. As with all clubs, a committee was formed and made reasonable recommendations on these two key points, turnouts and uncoupling.
The compromise consisted of a unanimous vote to use Peco Turnouts. These turnouts could be electrically operated using Peco Switch Machines, mounted under the track. They have an over center spring, which provides positive point positioning and electrical contact. They can be operated by hand or remotely. So the Turnout controversy was easily settled.
Then there was the uncoupling issue. It was recommended by the committee to design, develop and install magnets that could be easily removed from the layout. While installed, the magnets were to provide the "permanent magnet" look and feel. This would allow the Hands Off uncoupling at specific points throughout the yard. For Hands On uncoupling, these "temporary" magnets could be removed quickly and easily. Members would install/remove the magnets as they desired.
So, now what to be used? There was a recommendation for the use of rare earth magnets. These small magnets can be arranged to provide powerful fields for positive uncoupling when trains were stopped over them. A number of layouts have used these with great success. So, a trip to Fort Collins, CO and the Force Field store was taken, for experimentation and selection of candidate magnets.
With the rare earth magnets in hand, a number of members provided ideas and suggestions on how the rare earth magnets should be mounted and used in order to provide temporary installation and ease of installation and removal. After an evening of sharing ideas, Charlie Lee and Hap Yeske took on the task to provide the club with a workable solution.
The solution was absolutely brilliant! It provides:
Charlie and Hap showed their ingenuity and creativity in the following solution.
Mounted below the track, two screws were set about 2 inches apart on the centerline of the track into the homosote/plywood under lay. The screws were sunk far enough to allow small 3/16 cube rare earth magnets to be placed over the screw, with the top of the magnet even with the tops of the ties. These are to be permanently mounted and have no effect on the coupling/uncoupling of cars, since their field is small and centered in the track.
Their purpose is to hold a Kadee "above the ties" magnetic uncoupler in place. The Kadee magnet provides the 2-3 inch span for uncoupling that is desired. The Kadee magnets can be easily removed by hand or with the use of a slightly larger rare earth magnet.
See sketches, below showing cross sectional views. Yellow items are the rare earth magnets. Track has been omitted on the drawings for clarity and ease of seeing the other components. Sketches were produced using Google Sketch-Up Application.
Charlie and Hap came up with a solution that satisfies all factions of the club and is a great addition to the club's unique contribution to the hobby.
Our thanks and congratulations go out to both of them!
(copyright 2007-2008, Article may be copied for personal use if the title and author credits and copyright are maintained intact)
I model N and use a tool to uncouple cars. I found that the tool with three sides works the best so I do a little filing on the bamboo tip to get this. The couplers on the cars are Kadee, Accu-mate and Micro-train, and all seem to uncouple the same. I have removed the uncoupling pins for a more realistic look as well eliminating the pins catching on turnouts, cross overs and such.
Ken
Ken G Price My N-Scale Layout
Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR
N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.
This has been a VERY INTERESTING thread!
For the record, I use Kadee couplers, and prefer to uncouple magnetically when possible.
I do not use DCC. Even if I did, the idea of spending more for one uncoupling mechanism than for an entire freight consist (at original prices) is enough to make me cringe!
Robal's report includes an answer I have been looking for. I have used 'snap down' Kadee magnets, with a chunk of steel under the ties to hold them down. The tiny supermagnets seem to me a much better answer. (I have a depressed center flat that will lift the magnet and carry it off! It's made of galvanized sheet steel - real tinplate. Hopefully, the supermagnets will put a stop to that.)
Likewise, the several hinged under-track magnet suggestions (especially the photos) look like good answers for the places where through train slack action could result in unplanned uncoupling.
Lots of food for thought. Thank you all.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I have the KD "above the track" magnets on my home layout and find that after they're properly placed they work well (you need to make sure that your car's couplers are working well too). A friend brought back from a NMRA convention 5+ years ago a handheld uncoupler that looked like a mini LED flashlight with a small diameter metal rod sticking out of it to which a dime-sized magnet had been fastened. This allowed the magnet to be inserted under the coupler anywhere you needed to uncouple a car-and you had light to see with! While this isn't quite the same as someone pulling the uncoupling bar it was relatively close. Back on topic-I do find like using the magnets to do my uncoupling. I fastened them to the track with rubber cement so that it was fairly easy to move them when I found them mal-positioned.
John H.
Woodbridge, Occoquan & Western Rwy
Texas Zephyr wrote:
So in the picture you have lassoed one of the couplers wires and are pulling it to the side?
Yes, that's the way this tool works. I've got the idea from MR, could be Oct 98.
I use skewers . tried magnets but found that they needed a lot of fiddling to get them to operate properly and to find the right location for them.
I liked the ability to uncouple and push a car to another location but have found that I can do this with a skewer anyway, without touching the car with anything but the skewer.
have been so pleased with the skewer method that I have removed the pins from all my couplers.
each to their own.
trevor
I've been working on a concept for an uncoupling module that would be attached to any dcc equipped locomotive (or car with a mobile function decoder, for that matter) and would operate a Kadee style coupler at either end of the locomotive through one of the function keys. This module incorporates a length of flexinol wire as the actuator mechanism. I've worked out a way to make a module less than .25" wide and about 1.2" long. The thickness would be less than the thickness of the center sill on a car, perhaps .125" or so. It seems practical to mount this unit beneath even a small tank engine, a short tender, or beneath the axle retainer plate of a steam locomotive. Diesels would use the module mounted beneath the sideframe member and/or walkway, adjacent to and above the sideframe of the truck. Of course it could also be mounted within a tender body or diesel shell.
Is there interest in working on such a mechanism that could be built by a modeller with some scratchbuilding skills? I'd be willing to share plans and ideas to see if this module is within the capabilities of skilled model railroaders. If there is interest in this, let me know by e-mail
Bob, the pointed end of the skewer is inserted, gently... between the two couplers. Then it is rotated to produce the uncoupling. I say gently because I've seen guys in the club do it in a heavy handed manner and that can, in rare cases, tend to push the couplers down a bit so they aren't at the correct height anymore. Usually not a problem, just don't jam it down in there. Most people say it takes a little practice but after doing a few they become quite good at it. It really helps if the two cars are at right angles to you so that you have the best line of sight. For me, this is where the magnet solution comes in and that is those places the cars are facing almost away from you so that you can't really see how to use the skewer or you simply can't reach the couplers to do the job with it.
There is one fella in our club that I've noticed uses the skewer to grab one of the hanging 'hoses' to separate the two couplers, but further back in this thread someone posted a photo of a tool with a little hook on the end that looks much, much better that the skewer if used in that manner.
Jarrell
FoulRift wrote:Due to the fact that I have never uncoupled by hand and have always used magnets could someone explain where the skewer is placed in order to uncouple the cars? Do tools work the same? Thanks -Bob
jacon12-thanks for the reply.Your explanation of how to use a skewer is helpful.I guess in the end I will have to choose. Eventhough my layout will only be 2' wide I may not be able to see to manually uncouple because the area where the layout will be prohibits be from walking around it. So I guess in some cases I'll have to use a combo of methods.Bob
R. T. POTEET wrote:I will own up that I have not really thought this out with great detail and it may be just a little on the hairbrained side: if you could figure some way to rig one of Kadee's undertrack uncoupling magnets to where it dropped far enough away from the track that the magnetic field would have no effect on the coupler then that would allow you to move cars backwards and forwards over that stretch of track and remain coupled. The magnet itself could be glued to a length of wood, for instance, that was hinged to the subroadbed and could be raised into position or lowered through the action of a fulcrum: move a lever to the right and the magnet could be hinged into uncoupling position; move it to the left and it would fall into a vertical position and be inoperative.
It's not that hairbrained at all; a couple of members in "my" club use this method. One has rigged up some styrene profiles and slides the uncouplong magnet in and out, another has adopted the hinge method and folds the magnet down when not in use. Both work great.
Per in Plano
I want to take this opportunity to thank all those who replied to this thread. I have gotten a lot of useful info and advice from all of you and it is greatly appreciated. Now,please don't take this the wrong way and be assured that it has nothing to do with any of you so don't take this personally, but I think it is time to put this thread to bed.
Once again thanks to all of you.You guys have been great. Bob
(Click image to enlarge)
Here's a video clip that shows using a skewer to do uncoupling.
1. Make sure and get slack in the couplers.
2. Insert the skewer between the coupler faces and quickly twist.
3. Over 90 percent of the time, the couplers will immediately pop open and you can pull away, leaving the cut of cars behind.
As one who is intensely interested in prototype-based operation, I find using a skewer or similar uncoupling technique to be preferred. The prototype uncouples where ever they need to, so why shouldn't we do the same?
It gets back to the concept of model railroad thoughts versus thinking like the prototype. If I'm constantly looking for magnets, that's a model railroading thought, since the prototype does none of that. On the other hand, if I'm using a skewer, my only thought is how to best maneuver the cars while switching to minimize the work -- which is exactly how a prototype railroader must think.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
de N2MPU Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns, and rock and roll!
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N
Hi bob - There's some good tips in the previous replies. I especially like Ryan's post about using skewers and graphite, etc. In practice I find it usually necessary to gently squeeze the cars together while using the tool.
The 'hinged magnet' article I've seen was in MR in Feb 2000 issue, p. 107. It does take some work, but I would prefer that, using a twist-rod, to pulling on fishline.
I did a painstaking 'study' (very unofficial, not sanctioned or approved by anybody) about 1998 with a small 'Timesaver' layout. I used carefully installed and checked Kaydee's (#5) on several boxcars, and found it necessary to eliminate all iron - remove and replace the usual iron/steel car weights, use non iron trucks and screws - including coupler mounting screws and truck bolster screws. That is, if I wanted any success at all.
I also found it necessary to place magnets nowhere near a curve. I found magnet uncoupling to be reliable *only* when straight (tanget) track of one car-length is placed on *both sides* of the magnet. Many magazine articles, including those 'tips' in MR, often make the assumption that the uncouplers will work almost anywhere. Not true, not true at all.
Of course, this means you cannot expect reliable operation with magnets placed just beyond the branch track in a turnout.
On my new layout here in Bozeman I went to a lot of trouble to incorporate these ideas, and again found great difficulty. It is hard to include these constraints and also fit the desired track into the available space. Although I do have some magnets, including some rebuilt electromagnets. Note the new Kaydee under-table Electromagnets #309 do work better than the previous ones; but one still has to supply about 3 amps - low coil resistance - and so cannot use those cute little pushbuttons from Radio Shack - they will burn out quickly due to arcing at contacts. I find it necessary to use small, reliable relays, with diodes protecting the contacts.
In addition to the above constraints on location, the installation of under-table magnets is a whole lot of work and involves carefull final adjustment. I am really thinking of eliminating all magnets with the exception of hard-to-reach areas, on my next phase of building. And there, I will most likely try the hinged magnets.
Hope this helps,
Dick Chaffer / Bozeman, MT / Modelling Montana Rail Link
FoulRift wrote:Joe-thanks so much for the video and explanation.Really a big help. One question-once the couplers open with the skewer can you then pusg the car if necessary?Bob
You can easily pull the coupler over into the delayed position so you can push the car into place and then pull away. Not exactly prototypical, but if you have an industry that's harder to reach, this technique works very well. I assume that's what you are asking ... on my Ops Live video 1, yardmaster Jordan Dobson is shown doing a bit of industry switching and he's using the delayed uncoupling technique a lot.
Dallas Model Works wrote: I prefer to keep hands away from the layout.Can you lay your track, run some trains for a while and get a "feel" through practical experience as to where the uncouplers ought to be?Then you can install magnets, confident that you have them in the right place.
I prefer to keep hands away from the layout.
Can you lay your track, run some trains for a while and get a "feel" through practical experience as to where the uncouplers ought to be?
Then you can install magnets, confident that you have them in the right place.
Thats exactly what i done. At first, i wasnt to bothered about the whole magnet thing, but, just one night i tried one out and now ive got one magnet in the perfect position on my yard lead. Im very supprised at just how much fun you can have poking a few cars around into 2 spurs with a smooth/slow running Atlas SD35. At first i had to make some fine adjustments to some Kadee tails but now thats all done, uncoupling is virtualy 100% reliable and hands free. Once the car is uncoupled, i just push it to where i want it.
If you can do the as Dallas model works has suggested, i think you'l be glad you did in the long run.
As for fitting them, i found them slightly to high sat atop the ties so i cut the ties away just inside the rails, cut out a piece of foam road bed and stuck the magnet to a strip of plastic "I" beam. This in turn is stuck in the hole with some caulk, job done.
Since this tread was posted, there must have been a run on all of the stores in my area for the bamboo skewers. No one seems to have them. I also want to get a supply to make some trees for the layout.
JIM
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.