Realistic uncoupling

[Anonymous]

I would like to get some opinions from the forum on this topic. My proposed layout is only going to be 2' with and was thinking of using Kadee magnets but the more I think about it I am now leaning towards using an uncoupling tool. I think in  this way I can put the car(s) where I want instead of where the magnet(s) are. This is especially true because my layout has a runaround track and in this situation hand uncoupling would be easier instead of trying to figure out where the magnets should go. Let me hear your thoughts. Bob

[hobo9941]

Sometimes the hand uncoupling tool works, and sometimes it doesn't seem to. Got kind of frustrated the other night, when it wouldn't uncouple some cars. Finally had to lift one off the other, to uncouple them. I was thinking of glueing two uncoupling tools together to get a little wider uncoupling area.

[Dallas Model Works]

I prefer to keep hands away from the layout.

Can you lay your track, run some trains for a while and get a "feel" through practical experience as to where the uncouplers ought to be?

The you can install magnets, confident that you have them in the right place.

You might want to consider electromagnets as well. If your layout is small, the increased price won't be such a big deal.

 

[tatans]

I'm surprised this subject is not the number one controversial topic in model railroading, this is also the first time I have seen the term "Realistic Uncoupling" which ultimately describes the antiquated and odd method of sticking a bamboo chopstick between a boxcar to uncouple it, surely in this day of electronics there is a modern method of uncoupling cars by remote. People spend thousands of dollars on electronic wizards of locos only to revert back to the "bamboo brakeman'' to simply uncouple a car, am I alone on this quest or has everyone just accepted the status quo???

[cwclark]

 I use both, McHenry magnets and Shish-K-bob sticks. I use the magnets at both ends of the yard ladder tracks but use the uncoupling tool (shish-K-bob sticks) at industrial switching locations. The uncoupling tool is just more useful when precision car spotting is a must. Breaking off cars into the yard tracks don't have to be  precise spotting, so the magnets work well in the yard.

[loathar]

tatans-They have a DCC uncoupling car on the market. It's just not cost effective to put a unit in each car.

[Cannoli]

 I use both, McHenry magnets and Shish-K-bob sticks. I use the magnets at both ends of the yard ladder tracks but use the uncoupling tool (shish-K-bob sticks) at industrial switching locations. The uncoupling tool is just more useful when precision car spotting is a must. Breaking off cars into the yard tracks don't have to be  precise spotting, so the magnets work well in the yard.

This is the same plan I have in mind for the layout I'm building now. I plan on using Kadee magnets in my yard and a few other key locations but will use hand uncoupling tools for industrial switching etc. 

[GAPPLEG]

Magnet locating is an art.  I place them stratigically so I can un-couple then push the car where I want it to go. It's called delayed action. One magnet placed correctly can service many locations if done correctly.

[Anonymous]

Thanks guys-Sounds like a plan to me. A little of each method. But should I opt for all magnets I be sure to make sure that they are in the correct spot so that I don't find myself tearing up track because I messed up like I did on my other layout. Thanks again-Bob

[SilverSpike]

Hey Bob,

I use the hand held methods of an uncoupling tool and the bamboo stick too, both seems to work well when I need it. The trick to getting them un-coupled is to insert the point of the tool in-between the two, then twist with a clockwise motion until they release.

Also, here are a few tips that Joe Fugate mentioned in another MR Forum thread about a similar topic:

Post by Joe Fugate 09-13-2007, 3:11 PM

It's not YouTube, but here is a video clip that shows using a bamboo skewer to do uncoupling ...

Some tips:

1. Make sure you have slack in the couplers

2. Coat the end of the skewer tip with some graphite from a number 2 pencil

3. Gently push the tip of the skewer between the coupler faces and quickly twist clockwise at the same time

With some practice, 90% + of the time, the couplers will pop open slick as can be ...

This is the only way we do uncoupling on my HO Siskiyou Line during op sessions. The prototype uncouples where ever it needs to when switching, and so do we. We prefer to think like the prototype as much as possible when we operate -- it adds to the fun!

Cheers,

Ryan

[R. T. POTEET]

I will own up that I have not really thought this out with great detail and it may be just a little on the hairbrained side: if you could figure some way to rig one of Kadee's undertrack uncoupling magnets to where it dropped far enough away from the track that the magnetic field would have no effect on the coupler then that would allow you to move cars backwards and forwards over that stretch of track and remain coupled. The magnet itself could be glued to a length of wood, for instance, that was hinged to the subroadbed and could be raised into position or lowered through the action of a fulcrum: move a lever to the right and the magnet could be hinged into uncoupling position; move it to the left and it would fall into a vertical position and be inoperative.

As an example you could pull a cut of cars over a particular point, raise the magnet, shove the cars backwards, lower the magnet and your uncoupling would only have been at that one particular point. Label this a 'poor-man's electromagnet' if you want to but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

[PASMITH]

I will own up that I have not really thought this out with great detail and it may be just a little on the hairbrained side: if you could figure some way to rig one of Kadee's undertrack uncoupling magnets to where it dropped far enough away from the track that the magnetic field would have no effect on the coupler then that would allow you to move cars backwards and forwards over that stretch of track and remain coupled. The magnet itself could be glued to a length of wood, for instance, that was hinged to the subroadbed and could be raised into position or lowered through the action of a fulcrum: move a lever to the right and the magnet could be hinged into uncoupling position; move it to the left and it would fall into a vertical position and be inoperative.

As an example you could pull a cut of cars over a particular point, raise the magnet, shove the cars backwards, lower the magnet and your uncoupling would only have been at that one particular point. Label this a 'poor-man's electromagnet' if you want to but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

Although I discarded the idea, I remember seeing at least one how to do it article in the model RR press describing this concept. As a result, I can't identify where or when. Perhaps someone else with a better memory or research ability can? With some exceptions, I have adopted the wood stick method.

Peter Smith, Memphis

[Texas Zepher]

There have been many threads on this over the past year.  

Most of the layout owners on the circuits that I operate on have gone through and ripped out the magnets.   I can only think of two layouts off the top of my head that still use the magnets.   We use a either bamboo skewers or actual uncoulping tools for the job.

As far as being reailistic the Sargents brand couplers are much more realistic as far as both looks and operation.   Nowhere in the real world does one see a curved wire hanging down from a coupler.  The Branchline cars have a nice realistic looking brake hose coming off the car.  Also, at least in the U.S.A., a brakeman has to walk down to the cars to be uncoupled and pull the lever.  The only place I have not seen this is on a hump yard, where I assume all the cars are uncoupled ahead of time.

So until such time as they invent minature scale size brakemen there will be no realistic uncoupling of cars.  One has to choose the unrealistic size of manual uncoupling or the unrealistic wires on the bottom of the couplers and magnets in the track. 

[rrebell]

I will own up that I have not really thought this out with great detail and it may be just a little on the hairbrained side: if you could figure some way to rig one of Kadee's undertrack uncoupling magnets to where it dropped far enough away from the track that the magnetic field would have no effect on the coupler then that would allow you to move cars backwards and forwards over that stretch of track and remain coupled. The magnet itself could be glued to a length of wood, for instance, that was hinged to the subroadbed and could be raised into position or lowered through the action of a fulcrum: move a lever to the right and the magnet could be hinged into uncoupling position; move it to the left and it would fall into a vertical position and be inoperative.

As an example you could pull a cut of cars over a particular point, raise the magnet, shove the cars backwards, lower the magnet and your uncoupling would only have been at that one particular point. Label this a 'poor-man's electromagnet' if you want to but I can't see why it wouldn't work.

Although I discarded the idea, I remember seeing at least one how to do it article in the model RR press describing this concept. As a result, I can't identify where or when. Perhaps someone else with a better memory or research ability can? With some exceptions, I have adopted the wood stick method.

Peter Smith, Memphis

There is a coupler that is close to scale and uncouples with a magnet wand, I believe the name is Sargent.

[Texas Zepher]

hairbrained side: if you could figure some way to rig one of Kadee's undertrack uncoupling magnets to where it dropped far enough away from the track that the magnetic field would have no effect on the coupler then that would allow you to move cars backwards and forwards over that stretch of track and remain coupled.

Not hairbrained at all.  I've seen several diagrams of this idea.  Never seen a real implementation though.  There is also the Kadee electromagnetic uncoupler.  

I've also seen plans where the idea is carried one step further.  That is the magnet is positioned on a movable platform that can run up and down the track.  Position the train where desired, move the magnet under the uncoupling place, raise the magnet ( or turn on the electro magnet), move the locomotive cutting the train where desired, lower the magnet. 

But once again I don't know if this is any more or less "realistic" than the other normal ways of doing it.

[Kenfolk]

I just use  the bamboo skewers; I always have some on hand anyway (they come in handy for all kinds of scratchbuilding and layout scenery). Seems the time to rig some of these other contraptions might be used for other stuff I enjoy more, building structures, etc. Just my opinion.

Here's a thought--Why not glue a scale model brakeman a little up from the end of the skewer, then paint the skewer with invisible paint?

[Alantrains]

I used an old MR article to make this under layout drop down uncoupler at the head of my freight yard ladder tracks.

I use a length of fishing line to pull the magnet up and gravity drops it down, works best with KDs, not so good with the cheaper look alikes, but I've eliminated unwanted uncoupling.  I plan to install some more on the main line.

[Marc_Magnus]

Hi,

Well modeling in N scale I avoid permanent magnet on my layout, because of undesired uncoupling.

I prefer magnetic uncoupler and for that purpose I build my own since a lot f time.

The design comes from an single sketch which appears in MR a few years ago.

It's just a metalic tube of 1" length and 1/3" in diameter.I cut lenghtwise the cap of the tube wihch give me a "U" shape; I check the opening so It did'nt exceed a 7mm opening. Second I glue two plastics wings with epoxy along the tube. When all is dry I paint it heavily with an aerosol color.

When dry, I full up the tube with a 0,5mm insulated cooper wire.

I cut an opening under the track and place a translucid plate of plastic over it.

Then I glue the uncoupler with a five minutes epoxy, centering it between the track.

A momentary switch operate the uncoupler under a 12 VDC tension.

Just provide a sturdy power to the uncoupler because they like electricity.

 

 

 

I cut

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BRAKIE]

I use a small flat tip screw driver that came with a screw driver kit.About the only time I use a mag3net is when I can't reach the cars due to building in front of the cars.

[J Campbell]

Nowhere in the real world does one see a curved wire hanging down from a coupler.

I know, I know...rookie question, but...what the heck are those wires for, anyway?  Are they specifically for magnetic uncoupling?

As far as being reailistic the Sargents brand couplers are much more realistic as far as both looks and operation.

Do they have a website that you know of?  I googled them for about a half a second, but got no real results.

[J Campbell]

Nevermind...

http://www.sergentengineering.com/

 

[dinwitty]

okay, okay gang. The Kadees have the delayed action you spot the car over the magnet to put it into delay then push the car to its spot. But the club I ws in we also had the "manual" stuff around too to do specific spot uncouplings. Its just like you need the 2 going together, its not like one is better than the other.

The kadees also have a lip on them when taut, over a magnet they do not uncouple.

You just plan where you place the magnet.

The trip pins are supposed to simulate the brake hoses.

Copler makers in the past have made proto-couplers that work exactly as the prototype, but the success of them may have more to do with the reliability. Being able to uncouple hands off at a distance without placing big derailing hands knocking over everything is a benfit.

It all depends how you want to model and works for you.

I would love the coupler and car makers to come up with  a more realistic method like actually moving the handlebars to uncouple.

I recall an article to modify the Kadees pin under the car to rid the pin's brake hose look, but for us to be really real we would be hooking up brake hoses as well.

Pfft, we dont do that in the model world.

Really, the Kadees seem to be the champ at this point, but always looking at others, but for now, I'm stuck on Kadees.

 

[steemtrayn]

They can put a man on the moon, but they can't uncouple cars with a laser pointer.

[jacon12]

I like using the magnets in those places that are difficult to reach.  You just have to be careful about placement, of course.  As far as the 'skewer stick' method, I use it also.  I liked someones idea of taping one of those very small flashlights to the stick so that you can see the couplers easier.  Haven't tried it yet, but I like the idea.

Jarrell

[jim22]

Anyone tried the uncoupling tools - I think they are made by Rix, and are magnetic?

Jim 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. Sorry I couldn't reply sooner but I just walked in the door from work.

I guess when it comes right down to it I'll have to experiment a little and see what works best although I have used the Kadee betweenthe rails magnets in the past  and had good luck with them.I just wanted to hear from other people to see how they uncoupled their cars.

Thanks again-Bob 

[PHARMD98233]

Here is the next best thing to a laser pointer.

http://dccuncoupling.com/

I have two boxcars using them and I have two cabeese on order.  One use for the cabeese will be to cut off the helper engine on-the-fly. 

The neat thing is that you don't need a whole fleet of them.  I just use the dcc uncoupler box cars like idler cars.  This allows me to switch almost anywhere on the layout.  

The next ones I order will be a custom made RPO and maybe a diner.  Check out the operations simulations area located at about mid-page.  

Look Ma, no hands, magnets, loops or skewers! This is a very sweet way to do operations.

 

[ICRR1964]

I remember reading about the DCC uncoupling, be nice if some of our favorite company's would mass produce kits. I use the magnets and hand, they both work great.

[jecorbett]

Originally, I intended to do all my uncoupling with below track uncouplers. Experience has taught me that the magnetic uncouplers are not always the best option. Take a simple spur track. To be able to do both a facing point and trailing point drop and uncouple at the logical places, you would need an uncoupling ramp on both sides of the turnout on the mainline. Delayed action uncoupling in which a car is uncoupled some distance from where it will be dropped and then pushed into the spur with the couplers in a disengaged position can be tricky. If the engine stalls during the move, the car might separate and then recouple with the loco when the push is resumed. That can be frustrating. The biggest problem I've found is that putting uncouplers on the mainline is asking for trouble. If the loco hesitiates for just an instant with couplers over the ramp, it can and frequently does cause unwanted uncoupling on the mainline. That is really aggravating. Another problem is some of my industrial spur have no roadbed. The track is attached directly to the roadbed. I would have to mortise out the plywood to make room for the ramp. I also have a couple spurs where I need to uncouple on a curve and the magnetic uncouplers don't work reliably in those positions.

What I have found is that there are at least as many reasons not to use magnetic uncouplers as there are reasons to use them. There are places where they work well without problems. I have become selective in where I place them. I have removed all the ones from the mainling. I now only place them at the drop spots on spurs and also at both ends of each track in my double ended yard. I keep the uncoupling tool handy at all times and have become very proficient at uncoupling without derailing the cars. It just takes a little practice.

Maybe some day it will be cost effective to use DCC to uncouple cars but I think that day is a long way off. Until then, I will keep my skewers handy.

[hobo9941]

I am going to try the skewers. I have the Rix uncoupling tools, two of them. The magnets are aligned vertically, and you have to hold them just right to uncouple cars.