I picked up a couple of the Accurail 89' auto rack kits (AT&SF bi-level and SP tri-level) at a train show a couple years back. I would like to tackle building them but they don't seem like your easy shake in the box kit or even straight forward like a Proto 2000 kits etc.
To special concerns. 1) glue & 2) mounting the side braces and decks square and flush.
Has anyone built these kits and what kind of glue would you recommend firt of all? There is your regular super glue, there is gap filling super glue (my guess would be that one) and there is Testors model glue (dries very slow, messy too). Others I haven't named?
Is there any method to gluing on the verticle braces so they are perfectly perpendicular to the 89' flat car base? How bout order of gluing parts together? middle deck upper deck etc.
I'll need these for late 60's - mid70's short fast frequent freight trains I'm watching on my DVD. Will need to make a few examples with side panels too for late 70's - mid 80's mixed in with the fully enclosed racks.
Thanks
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
wyomingrailfan wrote:I can answer the glue question. Use plastic glue, and I like Faller and Testors glue.as for the other problems with your kits, I only know one thing. follow the INSTRUCTIONS!!!!!
The one concern about plastic glue like Testors is setting time. There are numerous posts and I assume you would would have to sit there and hold it in place for quite a while before the glue sets up. But, superglue can make a pretty brittle joint - esp where you are gluing a painted model. I've had details on my Gunerdson 5-unit well cars (Walthers) pop off the model. They were all glued with super glue. Don't remember if it was gap filling or reg.
Have you built any of the Accurail autorack kits?
riogrande5761 wrote: wyomingrailfan wrote:I can answer the glue question. Use plastic glue, and I like Faller and Testors glue.as for the other problems with your kits, I only know one thing. follow the INSTRUCTIONS!!!!!The one concern about plastic glue like Testors is setting time. There are numerous posts and I assume you would would have to sit there and hold it in place for quite a while before the glue sets up. But, superglue can make a pretty brittle joint - esp where you are gluing a painted model. I've had details on my Gunerdson 5-unit well cars (Walthers) pop off the model. They were all glued with super glue. Don't remember if it was gap filling or reg.Have you built any of the Accurail autorack kits?
Solution to both: Tenax. or how ever it's spelled. If you can, put the joint together, then brush the tenax on the joint, hold iot for 10 seconds, and your ready to go. Looks like this: http://www.wig-wag-trains.com/Tenax/Tenax.jpg
Instructions are great, but I don't remember seeing any step-by-step. From my experiance, you want to lay the upper deck(s if your working on a tri level) on it's side with pliers or something, and glue each of the struts in to the sides with the vertical pegs into the vertical slots on the support legs. (If your working on a Tri Level, I don;'t think it matters which you do) When they have good and dried, (about a half hour with the Tenax) flip it and do the same. then when that side is dry, put the whole thing in the slots on the car and apply Tenax to those slots. Accurail has in my experiance had exellent fitting parts. Unfortuneatly, mine said it was a Tri level, but the parts acted like a Bi Level. I'll dig up mine. Note though It's been painted for the RBBX.
Examples:
Prototype car:
PS: I cou;d be throttled for saying this, but for their looks and functionality, and how ell they go together, not o mention the price, the Accurail kits is one of the best out there.
-Morgan
My advice: dive right in. The kits look more daunting than they really are. That is, no one step is difficult, it is just more steps than your usual plastic kit. The sequence in the directions is the correct one, or at least I followed it and things worked out just fine. The only "tricky" thing is to make sure the verticle side braces are really "in." I did not try to rush any steps but gave the cement time to harden. So it took a couple of days. Next time I will build more than one at a time because you get into a "zone" where the steps get really easy just about the time you are done with that step.
The one issue is weight. I replaced the steel weight with sheet lead of the correct thickness (which I always paint with latex paint so that there is no exposed lead to touch later) and I wash my hands very thoroughly after touching bare lead). But even with lead the car is underweight for its length. This has been touched on before in these Forums: add autos to the car and it might be top heavy. Maybe heavier autos on lowest level, lighter autos on top -- better for weight BUT lighter autos tend to be more toylike or not look as good and it is the top autos you'll see.
Dave Nelson
I've built several of these. The recommendations to use Tenax or a similar plastic bonder are good. The only thing I can add is to use the Tenax with one of the needle type dispensers to allow easy placement of just enough to bond things together.
It's been awhile since I built mine and I'm away from home so I can't look things over to refrersh my memory. I do remember that the instructions were pretty straightforward and assembly went well when they are followed. There may be a trick or two as others have advised in the order in which you attach the decks, but it's a less intimidating kit once you've done one. If you have multiple kits to build, I suggest starting with a bi-level rack first. Then the tri-levels aren't so bad to build.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
riogrande5761 wrote:I picked up a couple of the Accurail 89' auto rack kits (AT&SF bi-level and SP tri-level) at a train show a couple years back. I would like to tackle building them but they don't seem like your easy shake in the box kit or even straight forward like a Proto 2000 kits etc.To special concerns. 1) glue & 2) mounting the side braces and decks square and flush.Has anyone built these kits and what kind of glue would you recommend firt of all? There is your regular super glue, there is gap filling super glue (my guess would be that one) and there is Testors model glue (dries very slow, messy too). Others I haven't named?Is there any method to gluing on the verticle braces so they are perfectly perpendicular to the 89' flat car base? How bout order of gluing parts together? middle deck upper deck etc. I'll need these for late 60's - mid70's short fast frequent freight trains I'm watching on my DVD. Will need to make a few examples with side panels too for late 70's - mid 80's mixed in with the fully enclosed racks.Thanks
I built one a couple of years ago. You get a choice of building a two level or a tri level car out of the same kit. This can cause confusion because some of the pieces have notches and mounting holes for BOTH configurations of the car. I wanted a tri level for the coolth of the thing. I found out that the tri level lacked the headroom on the lower decks to accept a load of pickup trucks. That delayed building the car until I found a load of sedans which would fit into a tri level.
I don't remember taking any special steps to assemble my car. Just cut the thinnish side braces free from the sprue without breaking them. I use those sprue nippers, but you can do it with a sharp new #11 Xacto blade. Was I to make some more of them I might try to invent a jig to hold the three decks parallel to each other while fitting the side braces. Perhaps some blocks of wood of just the right size fitted inbetween the decks during assembly. The X braces attach to all three decks, so you have to get all the decks lined up just right and then cement on the X braces.
I always use styrene cement for styrene models. It dries quickly and makes a bond as strong as the original plastic. Plastruct Plastic Weld is one brand. There are others just as good. It's a clear watery liquid, comes in a glass bottle with a brush in the cap. Chemically it is just methyl ethyl ketone (MEK) and it works by dissolving the plastic and then evaporating, which allows the plastic to harden again. Take precautions against spills, the stuff will dissolve a lot of things so a spill can make quite a mess. There was a time we spilled some on a linoleum tile floor.... Stickiness never did go away... Words were exchanged...
I used some plastic molded sedans from LifeLike for a load. They came three cars per package and I got them at a train show for like a buck a package. The autorack needs fifteen sedans to fill it up. You could use die cast model cars but 15 of 'em would be awful heavy. The Lifelike sedans made better looking loads after I gave them opaque black paper bottoms. As they came out of the package you could look in the windshield of the sedan and see the deck of the autorack.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
dstarr wrote: The Lifelike sedans made better looking loads after I gave them opaque black paper bottoms. As they came out of the package you could look in the windshield of the sedan and see the deck of the autorack.
That's an excellent idea and solves the very problem I had with the cheap cars I am using. Thanks.
I have Tenax 7R (which is MEK) on hand but I didn't consider using it because I've only used it on kits I could brush the glue on from the inside of joints where any crazing from the glue would be hidden. I've used it on two kinds of kits so far: 1) Walthers ADM grainery (worked really good!) and Eel River 62' "beer" PC&F box car, which is built from flat parts. It worked excellent on that too. Both kits I could brush the glue on from a joint from the inside.
My two Accurail autorack kits do not appear to be the type which can have either a bi or tri-level built from it. The bi-level has verticle braces with "one" slot for the 2nd rack only, and the tri-level has the braces with two slots for 2 decks. Thats how these kits are set up. I do plan on getting mostly the RTR from now on, but these two kits appear to be common types seen in western freight trains.
riogrande5761 wrote: I have Tenax 7R (which is MEK) on hand but I didn't consider using it because I've only used it on kits I could brush the glue on from the inside of joints where any crazing from the glue would be hidden. I've used it on two kinds of kits so far: 1) Walthers ADM grainery (worked really good!) and Eel River 62' "beer" PC&F box car, which is built from flat parts. It worked excellent on that too. Both kits I could brush the glue on from a joint from the inside.My two Accurail autorack kits do not appear to be the type which can have either a bi or tri-level built from it. The bi-level has verticle braces with "one" slot for the 2nd rack only, and the tri-level has the braces with two slots for 2 decks. Thats how these kits are set up. I do plan on getting mostly the RTR from now on, but these two kits appear to be common types seen in western freight trains.
brushing on the joint will work for the bottom, and you can apply a small dab on either the slot on the vertical post, or on the peg that goes in it.
I have found that Tenax, MEK or Liquid testors to evaporate much too quickly for these long joints. Faller Xpert and Model Masters will have more open time and still produce a penetrating bond. Faller w/ the long needle applicator works the best for me. It also can be removed from a painted surface within a few seconds w/o any damage. It was invaluable for doing the ME viaduct and assy of dozens of Central Valley girder assys. Testor's Model Master is a close 2nd.
I find that rubber bands, clamps and blocks of wood all aid in these types of assemby.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
bogp40 wrote: I have found that Tenax, MEK or Liquid testors to evaporate much too quickly for these long joints. Faller Xpert and Model Masters will have more open time and still produce a penetrating bond. Faller w/ the long needle applicator works the best for me. It also can be removed from a painted surface within a few seconds w/o any damage. It was invaluable for doing the ME viaduct and assy of dozens of Central Valley girder assys. Testor's Model Master is a close 2nd. I find that rubber bands, clamps and blocks of wood all aid in these types of assemby.
I've noticed that about MEK also, it evaporates fast. Makes sense I guess since its probably classified as a volatile organic compound (VOC in my line of work).
How about "square" mounting of the vertical braces vs the deck and flat car? Or do those braces pretty much force in a good geometry by the part fit?
riogrande5761 wrote: bogp40 wrote: I have found that Tenax, MEK or Liquid testors to evaporate much too quickly for these long joints. Faller Xpert and Model Masters will have more open time and still produce a penetrating bond. Faller w/ the long needle applicator works the best for me. It also can be removed from a painted surface within a few seconds w/o any damage. It was invaluable for doing the ME viaduct and assy of dozens of Central Valley girder assys. Testor's Model Master is a close 2nd. I find that rubber bands, clamps and blocks of wood all aid in these types of assemby.I've noticed that about MEK also, it evaporates fast. Makes sense I guess since its probably classified as a volatile organic compound (VOC in my line of work).How about "square" mounting of the vertical braces vs the deck and flat car? Or do those braces pretty much force in a good geometry by the part fit?
If you attach them to the upper deck first, everything should slip in pretty well and dandy
Watch the slots in the up rights like dstarr said. Ez to confuse them. I've built 3 with Testors liquid cement. Sets up quick(5 minutes) and holds strong.
Note-All the up rights are NOT the same. 2 are marked R and 2 are marked L. (these go on the very ends with the ladders and latches) The rest are the same. If your doing the 2 level, the "X" braces are a little tricky. (you don't use them for the tri-level)I found it easiest to glue 4 uprights to the base deck first. One in each corner but NOT the very outer ones.(come in one hole from the very ends) I then glued the second and third decks to these four uprights. You have the basic decks glued together at this point and you can then take your time and glue one upright in at a time. Do all of one side and then flip it and do the other. Be VERY, VERY careful when you cut the bridge plates and latches off the sprues!!! These break REAL EZ! Good luck with those! They are the hardest part of the kit.
See Accurails web site for proper placement of the road name placards. These are road name and model specific.
Save all your left over sprues. They make great down spouts and piping for your buildings.|Good Luck! They are real nice kits.
All helpful suggestions!
Be VERY, VERY careful when you cut the bridge plates and latches off the sprues!!! These break REAL EZ! Good luck with those! They are the hardest part of the kit.
Thats why I got my sprue nippers at a train show about 9 years ago. I got tired of breaking those tiny parts that came in Proto 1000 and Intermountain kits. They are wonderful!
riogrande5761 wrote:I have Tenax 7R (which is MEK) on hand but I didn't consider using it because I've only used it on kits I could brush the glue on from the inside of joints where any crazing from the glue would be hidden. I've used it on two kinds of kits so far: 1) Walthers ADM grainery (worked really good!) and Eel River 62' "beer" PC&F box car, which is built from flat parts. It worked excellent on that too. Both kits I could brush the glue on from a joint from the inside.My two Accurail autorack kits do not appear to be the type which can have either a bi or tri-level built from it. The bi-level has verticle braces with "one" slot for the 2nd rack only, and the tri-level has the braces with two slots for 2 decks. Thats how these kits are set up. I do plan on getting mostly the RTR from now on, but these two kits appear to be common types seen in western freight trains.
Tenax is good, I've used it too. Same stuff really. I use whatever brand my local hobby shop happens to carry. They must have had Plastic Weld last time I bought, 'cause that's what I have in my drawer right now. Capillary action will make the stuff suck up into the joint. On the auto rack I seem to remember putting a drop on the uprights and braces, and another drop on the deck and then popping/snapping them together. For really fine work, I sometimes use a fine artist's paint brush rather than the brush in the bottle cap.
Funny that your kits should be specialized bi level or tri level. Intrigued me enough to dig out the box and look at the instruction sheet on mine. It shows only two levels in the exploded view, but the kit is sitting in my display case right now with three levels all loaded with sedans. Instruction sheet says "9200/9300 Series Open Auto Rack" and "1999". The box is marked " B & M #9310 tri-lvl auto rack". I seem to remember the uprights having notches for both versions, but I built it in November of 2005, memory might have faded, and I don't plan to take the finished car apart to check.
loathar wrote:I have both bi and tri and the only difference was the tri came with 2 upper decks instead of one.
Ok... now that I think about it, it would be the same (kits are in the closet atm), just a deck mounted at the tope of the brace as well as the middle for tri-levels.
riogrande5761 wrote: loathar wrote:I have both bi and tri and the only difference was the tri came with 2 upper decks instead of one.Ok... now that I think about it, it would be the same (kits are in the closet atm), just a deck mounted at the tope of the brace as well as the middle for tri-levels.
You don't use the X braces for the tri level and the decks mount in different slots on the uprights depending on which version your building.
I have built four of these kits for my layout (two tri-levels, two bi-levels) and they are one of the easiest large kits I have ever assembled. I start by assembling all of the vertical supports, cementing them with 3M Super Glue Gel in small drops. After the vert supports are dry I then insert them into the slots on the flat car deck and glue them. Then I add my first row of cars on the flatcar deck (for large cars they loaded 4 per level, mid-sizes were 5 per level, and compacts 6 per level)- then I carefully glue the lower deck of the tri-level in place (or the top deck of the bi-level)- the lowest tab slot is the one you need to use for the middle tri-level deck. The middle tab is the bi-level's deck tab and the top tab is for the top deck of the tri-level. I also add the safety rails to the middle deck of the car and the automobiles (it's alot easier than cramming them in there after it's glued) and secure them to the deck with small drops of Elmer's White Glue. After that I add the top deck, scratchbuilt railings and cars. It should also be noted that there were versions of the bi-level Paragon (the rack type Accurail modeled) that did not use the X-brace either, check a photo reference if possible before installing the braces (on the PC rack I modeled- the prototype didn't have the X-braces).
The cars that I use for my loads are the Fresh Cherries HO scale die-cast cars- contrary to popular belief- these cars do not make the rack too heavy- nor do they make the car top heavy when loaded. The car will weigh about 13.5 ounces loaded with 18 cars- while the empty rack weighs in at a spindly 6 ounces. My bi-level is loaded with the Malibu Reel Rides die-cast Chevy trucks- same story there. For less than 2.50 apiece these cars are well worth it for your loads.