New DCC user
I bought the Digitrax Zephyer and never did get it to work right. the first one went up in smoke. The second quit working almost immediately. Digatrax put a new mother board in one. The fourth time i sent it back, i ask for and received my money back.I also bought a PM42 with the same results. It would never auto switch the reversing loop.
Also the Zephyer would not start up with three locos on on the tracks.
My next purchase was an NCE power cab. I took it home, plugged it in and never had to change anything.The NCE fires up with five loco'sThe reversing loop is controlled with a DPDT switch.
I have never understand why one brand would work so well and the other would not work at all. Any one else have problems like this?
Yankee Flyer
Nope. I got a Zephyr when it first came out several years ago, and have not had any problems like you describe. I operate weekly on my 25' x 50' HO layout with three operators, 3 DT400R radio throttles, a UR91 radio receiver, and up to 8 locos running at one time. I have no circuit breakers or reverse loops as it's all one block for my 3-yard, 2-terminal, double track railroad.
I am also the assistant electrical chairman at my 60+ member club, and we've been using the Digitrax Chief since 1999 on what will be our 6300 sq. ft. HO layout. Our layout is only 1/3rd built, but we already have 8 BDL168 block detectors, 1 PM42 (for a wye, two diamonds, and a turntable), 13 DS54 stationary decoders, 1 DS44 stationary decoder, and 8 DB200 boosters.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Never had any troubles with mine.
Maybe the dogs you got were all from the same bad batch.
Craig
DMW
Yankee,
Although I'm a happy Power Cab user, I find it very surprising that you'd have that much trouble with a Digitrax Zephyr. They make a good product.
Sorry I have to ask an obvious question: Are you positive that you had everything wired up correctly before you turned on your Zephyrs?
BTW: to the forum! Good to have you aboard!
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Yeesh. Either something didnt get wired right or the dog units escaped from the assembly facility.
I run the Chief and dont have any issues despite challenging portable environment.
Thanks for the input. when i bought the digitrax i had heard it was good.what has me stumped is that i changed nothing when i plugged in the NCE.
My layout is very simple 5'x18' twice around with a rail yard and one reverse loop off the main,but i am eyeing another 30' of basement wall though.
When i had the Zephyr problems, i resistance checked every run several times. Many years ago and far far away i was trained as an electronic tech. The basics i know but on this DCC i have a very very high learning curve. In fact the entire hobby is new to me. I just can not understand what i could have missed.
TA462 wrote: davidmbedard wrote: You issues leads me to think that your outlet in the wall is giving you too much juice. There is NO way you went through 4 Zephyrs, NO WAY. The odds of 4 units going bad is astronomical. David BI agree, funny your very first post is nothing more then another "Anti Digitrax" post.
davidmbedard wrote: You issues leads me to think that your outlet in the wall is giving you too much juice. There is NO way you went through 4 Zephyrs, NO WAY. The odds of 4 units going bad is astronomical. David B
David B
Well, it may be that he doesn't like the system or the way it works, I can understand that being an owner of a Radio Chief system - you need cheat sheets because of the computer techie/electrical engineer approach to programming and running it. Or it may have been something else.
What he appears to be addressing is the likelyhood of 4 units all being bad from the factory. Highly unlikely. I like the power outlet theory but who knows. Maybe someone had a bad day at the digitrax factory!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
That wall outlet theory isnt so far off. I protect my computers with UPS'es and so far they have kept the power smooth.
rigrande
you may have something there. NCE did say because my loco's have sound "there is a surge to charge them" when the system is turned on.
I have no bias because i am new to the game, although after using the NCE i am happy with it and now prefer it.
At present i have P2K SW8, 4-8-2, 2-8-0 Spetrum and an ALCO PA1A PA1B, P2K.There comes a new learning opportunity.The DCC in the "A" unit is motor only,because there is no room for speaker, the dcc in the "B" unit has Soundtrax, so speed matching is taking alot of time.
This forum is also new to me. I have been observing for several week and maybe when i learn more i will be able ask accurate questions.
The more you learn the more you realise how little you know.
Yankee flyer
TA462 wrote: riogrande5761 wrote: Well, it may be that he doesn't like the system or the way it works, I can understand that being an owner of a Radio Chief system - you need cheat sheets because of the computer techie/electrical engineer approach to programming and running it. Or it may have been something else.I have the Zephyr and the Radio Super Chief and I don't need cheat sheets. I find both to be very easy and simple to use.
riogrande5761 wrote: Well, it may be that he doesn't like the system or the way it works, I can understand that being an owner of a Radio Chief system - you need cheat sheets because of the computer techie/electrical engineer approach to programming and running it. Or it may have been something else.
Back when I was learning and reading up on the systems, and since then too, I have read many comments about the way Digitrax is operated. It isn't intuitive for many people the button sequences and method of operation. I know from my college computer programming days that computer manuals have often been difficult for lay people to follow because the thought processes of computer and engineer folks is "different" than those of average folk.
Keeping the above in mind, it comes as no surprise that you don't need cheat sheets etc to remember the keystrokes for commonly used functions. Also, the newer large controller may minimize this (I don't own it yet). If you read MRG regularly in the late 90's, you'll recall Jim Mansfield had a regular series where he documented his experiences setting up a Digitrax system on his sizable layout following the Santa Fe. He discussed the cheat sheets he had to use so that he and his operators could remember and use the system. I agree'd with him as I read the articles and the benefits of it.
I'm not a fanboy of any system. I researched NCE and Digitrax when I bought my Chief back in the late 90's and found both to be very nice, but decided on Digitrax partly because I think I got a little more features for the cost of the system - plus it had radio capability sooner than NCE. As it turned out it went into storage after I had to dismantle my layout following a separation. Since then, NCE has added features and cost has moderated a bit. When it comes time to build again, I may re-evaluate and go NCE. Maybe. I think operability is a strong factor and it is widely considered that NCE is more "accessable" to the lay person than the more techie approach Digitrax uses. There are alot of techie minded people and so Digitrax works well for those for operation.
TA462 wrote: Once you punch in a loco all you need to do to operate the loco is turn a dial, you can even double click the dial to reverse the locomotive. Its not that hard. Same goes for programming, I can't for the life of me understand how people just don't understand it, its so simple. Samething with MUing loco's, I can MU 4 loco's in less then a minute. All I've ever owned is Digitrax and I've used friends NCE systems. I find the NCE systems confusing because I don't have enough practise with them yet but like anything with a little time and practise I'm sure I can master it as well. Get yourself a DT400 throttle though, it makes programming a lot simpler then using the DT300, I'm assuming thats the one you have.
I don't know. I remember reading the manual when I got my chief system and thinking I'd never remember alot of the steps they mentioned. I don't have the DT400 either, nor do I still as its been in storage and I'm hesitating on investing more into the system until I build another layout.
All I can say is, whats easy for some people isn't easy for others. Its a consistant issue I've heard people comment about Digitrax over the years so I don't think it is imaginary. Gotta remember that people have issues with programming VCRs too! I can do that - its not hard. We all have our "Mental blocks". Like you said, the DT400 is supposed to simplify keystokes so I'll have to evaluate that when I break the system back out.
I've had a Radio Super Chief for 10 years of great operation. I also bought an Empire Builder because I needed a booster and it was less expensive to buy a starter set with the DB150 and another throttle. A few years ago I bought a DT400 throttle as I thought that it would make things easier to program. I never use it as I was so used to programming with my DT100. Now I use Decoder Pro. I am waiting for the new Digitrax Duplex Radio System which is due out some time next year.
JIM
Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.
Mavrick00
When I bought the Zephyr and pm42, I was all set to run all Digitrax equipment. When the first Zephyr smoked, I sent it back and Digitrax replaced the motherboard. The second Zephyr operated erratically, so I again sent it back; and they sent me a whole new unit. The third Zephyr would not fire up with two sound-equipped locos and a searchlight flatcar on the track. It seemed like it lacked power. I had to tilt one of the locos until it fired up, and then it would operate. At the time, it never dawned on me that the transformer could cause these kinds of problems. I do not remember sending the transformer back. This Zephyr became erratic also. That was enough for me - I returned it and got my money back.
It's possible the transformer was at fault, but Digatrax mentioned they were having problems when they switched from lead to tin solder on their circuit boards.
The NCE power cab runs 4 or 5 locos, an extra throttle and the light car.
yankee flyer wrote: When I bought the Zephyr and pm42, I was all set to run all Digitrax equipment. When the first Zephyr smoked, I sent it back and Digitrax replaced the motherboard. The second Zephyr operated erratically, so I again sent it back; and they sent me a whole new unit. The third Zephyr would not fire up with two sound-equipped locos and a searchlight flatcar on the track. It seemed like it lacked power. I had to tilt one of the locos until it fired up, and then it would operate. At the time, it never dawned on me that the transformer could cause these kinds of problems. I do not remember sending the transformer back. This Zephyr became erratic also. That was enough for me - I returned it and got my money back.It's possible the transformer was at fault, but Digatrax mentioned they were having problems when they switched from lead to tin solder on their circuit boards.The NCE power cab runs 4 or 5 locos, an extra throttle and the light car.Yankee Flyer
I've been keeping an eye on this thread, as I too use Digitrax (Empire Builder), and this is the first mention of anything other than a Loco being on the track. It makes me wonder, as I am not familiar with NCE systems.
What is the Amp rating of your NCE system?
If it is MORE than the Zyphers 2.5 A, your comparing Apples to Oranges, and your Seach Light Car may have been causing too much of an in-rush current. I mean if you think about it, unless you put a decoder for on/off control, and resistors or something on the Search Light, it is the path of least resistance for the current going thru the tracks, and thus could send too much current through the Zyphers Signal Generator section.
That being said, I can not explain why the NCE then WOULD work, unless it is higher amperage, with circutry designed to handle the larger return current. ????
Side note; I am very happy with my Digitrax. I find it fairly easy to use, and very reliable. the only issues I've had/have are with the lack of "read-back" ability, and one, what I call, flaw in that I have one loco that is only 28 step speed control that my DT-400 throttle resets to 128 step (in the throttle)when I unplug the input power for more than a day. I have to "reset" the throttle to 28 step for that loco before it will operate.
Steve,
The NCE Power Cab comes with 1.7A of total output.
tstage wrote: Steve, The NCE Power Cab comes with 1.7A of total output.Tom
WOW...That's not much at all then, huh? I'm surprised that it would run more than (2) sound equipped locos at 3/4 A each.
The other issue from the OP that I don't recall being discussed was whether or not the Power Supply was the Digitrax recommended Power Supply, or some other brand/amperage?
King Conrail76
yes, the power thing was why i bought the Digitrax in the first place. The Zephyr, PM42 and power plug were all "DTrax" from Docs caboose in "KC". Our club is DC but some of the guys have NCE and were happy with it. One had (MRC?) but switched to NCE. One member has a layout that covers his entire basement completely and runs Digittrax. Also I have watched one power cab run six locos light on a couple hundred feet of track. But this is water under the bridge. I have NCE now and i dont see any reason to change.I suppose i just got a bad run. I appreciate everones comments.
Why are people who own Digitrax so defensive? I could care less what brand i use as long as it works. I had no trouble operating the Zephyr, and the factory even said they had some issues with the new solder. One of the Zephyrs would go bezerk at odd times,even when tested on the club track. I just wanted to know how many others had trouble, if any. When i buy something and have trouble with it i'm not going to hide the fact.
yankee flyer,Why are Digitrax owners defensive? It's because our product of choice is always being attacked, that's why...especially by NCE users. You won't find too many Digitrax owners criticizing NCE, but you will find plenty of NCE users who criticize Digitrax. I've seen it many times both here and on the Atlas Forum over the years.
You'll see NCE users complain about the manuals (even tho' they've been vastly improved from 10 years ago), you'll see 'em complain about how sad the DT100 throttles are (even tho' they've been out of production for years), you'll hear 'em complain about having to plug in to aquire locos with a radio throttle (but not one complaint about the short range of NCE throttles, nor the fact that Digitrax radio throttles were out years before NCE came out with theirs). And so on. Digitrax users are defensive, that I'll grant you. But then, we have reason.
I think its more people jumping on the "I hate Digitrax" bandwagon than anything.
Well, there is that whole genre, but I have largely stayed out of DCC topics for the last 6 or 7 years so I haven't followed the "I hate Digitrax" brew ha. I was just recalling my experiences researching the systems in 1997 and 1998 before I bought my Chief and reading Jim Mansields series in MRG and him having to make the cheat sheets. Seriously, I didn't give one thought to the "I hate Digitrax" thing when I brought up the techie style of operation. I noticed it somewhat myself when I read the manual - yes, I really did! and the MRG series and some anecdotal comments during that time frame. I'm not going to dump my Chief system, I'll wait until I get a layout if I get a house or basement within my life time and can start building a layout again. Its been really depressing stuck in a cracker box apartment for the last 7 years after having nearly build two layouts. Grrrr.
I'm a retired systems programmer and software engineer with 30-some years experience developing military systems. Some months ago, I bought both a Digitrax Zephyr and NCE PowerCab because I couldn't tell from my reading which I would like better. I thought I would favor the Digitrax if only because of its big "prototypy" (That's a word?) speed and reversing controls. Now I use the Zephyr for break-in runs on a loop track and NEVER for programming. I can see no reason why I should have to bit-fiddle when there is a computer "under the hood" which can do it for me. I know that it is just a marketing ploy, but I resent the fact that Digitrax has taken out the programming support built into its high-end models just to "encourage" me to upgrade. I have small layouts and operate solo, so have no need for the greater power-handling of a Super Chief, but Digitrax won't sell me a decent programming interface in a low-power package. The PowerCab is intuitive (That's a subjective judgement.) and simple to program with. By comparison, programming with the Zephyr is strictly in the "hobbyist" category: no programming motor CVs by name, no programming CV29 by named bits. In 2007, this is like making fire by rubbing two sticks. As a bonus, the PowerCab also provides precise low-speed control for yard operations - and I happen to model the IHB's Norpaul yard.
In fairness, I think the Digitrax is much better as a transitional system, for someone who is converting an existing moderate-sized layout to DCC. It will run a DC locomotive and allows two DC controllers to be used as throttles. So if you had a working DC 2-cab layout to convert, you could support 3 operators right out of the box and continue to get some use out of your DC locos. The PowerCab doesn't offer either of these features. And Digitrax does offer a clear upgrade path. But the Zephyr is strictly entry-level and its main purpose seems to be to sell additional Digitrax hardware: "Add this component and add that, and for a few hundred dollars more, you'll have the DCC system you really want." While the PowerCab gives me everything my small layout needs in a single package. (And those extra dollars can go for other stuff for the layout....)