In the past 5 years, I have noticed that Athearn Locomotives and Frieght cars that are not in the Genisis Line have become more sofisticaed.
I recently got a Southern Pacific SD45T-2 in the Kodachrome scheme, and compared with my Older blue box SD40T-2 in Rio Grande Paint, I have seen a drastic Improvment in running quality, Paint Quality and Detail Quality. I espically like the fact that gone is the light bulb in the cab....makes everything so much better when running!
I am sure some items are missing from the newer Athearn models, like MU connection hoses and some other minor details, but in my opinion, they have really gotten serious and put more effort into their models.
What are some of your opinions on the improved quality of the new athearns
Russell
My only gripe is the whole pre-order, limited production thing. Good luck trying to find a D&RGW SD40T-2 now
Maybe they'll do another production run sometime soon
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Artur wrote:Yes I like the new Athearn engines but unfortunately they kept those awful motors, I have the new SD40 with the highly detailed plastic gas tank but I had to junk that motor it's noisy and it draws way too many amps. I replaced it with an Atlas motor what a difference.
Artur, is that also applicable to the engines from the Genesis line ?
I can say Athearn has given us models that has never been offered in plastic RTR such as the CF7,GP40X,SD45-2,high hood SD40-2,SD38,SD40 SD60,GP60M,GP60B and I dare say the SD60.
Some of the newer RTR freight cars are finely detailed to include Photo-etched roof walks on certain covered hoppers.
I am really sold on their new trucks with metal wheels.
While I don't mind Athearn using their old reliable motor(can't kill it-it slowly wears out with years of heavy club use as in my GP7 case.) I wouldn't mind a Rocco motor upgrade at a reasonable minimal cost.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
stokesda wrote: My only gripe is the whole pre-order, limited production thing. Good luck trying to find a D&RGW SD40T-2 now Maybe they'll do another production run sometime soon
I was real lucky to get 5371 in the U.K. I hunted for days, even U.S websites without success and then found 1 over here. 2 days after it arrived, the shop where i ordered it had sold out aswell. There are litteraly none in the U.K now thats for sure!!
Im sure Athearn will re-run these, they are so popular now. I will re-motor this one aswell as my S.P ones (SD45T-2) with A-Line motors when time and money permits. Acouple of bucks worth of A-line parts on the pilots and there very nice models.
Juanfran2 wrote: Artur wrote:Yes I like the new Athearn engines but unfortunately they kept those awful motors, I have the new SD40 with the highly detailed plastic gas tank but I had to junk that motor it's noisy and it draws way too many amps. I replaced it with an Atlas motor what a difference.Artur, is that also applicable to the engines from the Genesis line ?
The Genesis motors are different and much better. Athearn had no choice, the old motors are not very DCC friendly and sound horrible when wired with a decoder.
TA462 wrote:I don't think Athearn had a choice in improving their products. With the big push for RTR stuff and seeing the quality of Proto, Atlas etc they had to step up or get run over.
There is no doubt Athearn is in a game of catch the pack leader-Atlas.However,I fully believe Athearn will do so while keeping the cost affordable.Of course the pack leader (Atlas) had to introduce a more affordable line of cars and locomotives-The Trainman Line.Of course Walthers already had the Trainline and now has the P1K at affordable prices.
Of course this is a win-win for the manufacturers and for those of us that has a limited hobby budget.
Indeed this is one of the most exciting times to be in the hobby!
Well, I did pre-order the Athearn SD40T-2 D&RGW with my pusher to guarantee some. In addition, I purchased 3 unnumberd D&RGW tunnel motors from here:
http://www.drgw.org/projects/T-2.shtml
Last I heard, they still have some left so I guess you can say "good luck" just happened!
I've gotten 7 of the new D&RGW tunnel motors and 1 of the SP, they are sweet! Also 3 SD50's and a couple of the GP40-2's. The SD45 is supposed to ship with plow and low nose light just like the SD40T-2's.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
bump for bnsfkline,
Did you ever try the Rio Grande Modeling & Historical Society for the SD40T-2? I received an email last week saying they still had their unnumbered D&RGW in stock.
To be honest I don't know why Atlas came out with their Trainman line. Its like they lowered their standard just to sell Train Set quality products. I guess they see a growth in that market.
Absolutley! There is a need for lower cost but good quality model trains to encourage beginners or people with limited disposable income to join in the hobby. The cost of the higher end stuff probably causes sticker shock to beginners and kids, so I think its great Atlas is helping to provide for that market. And quite frankly its shrewd too, as it helps to preserve and grow the hobby in hopes that some stay and become customers of the higher end products in due time.
Atlas I believe is at the top of the plastic food chain, followed by Kato, Proto 2000 and then Athearn taking up the rear.
I'd agree that Atlas is at the top of the plastic food chain. I don't think I'd put Athearn at the rear - not with the prototypical details appearning on the more recent RTR line of SD45T-2's and SD40T-2's and SD45's. No way! Only the lack of a better motor now keeps Athearn RTR line from equaling Atlas or rising nearby! Of course Athearn Genesis is up there with Atlas and only in the quality control dept does Athearn still have long standing issues.
Well here's what Atlas has to say about the Trainman line..Apparently its a money maker and a wise decision.
You will need to scroll down the page.
http://www.atlasrr.com/News/petermarriotinterview.htm
Here's a quote.
Has your budget priced Trainman range proved to be a successful innovation for Atlas?
The Trainman® range has so far either met or exceeded our expectations. The question was, would our very discriminating customers accept it? Because the quality is so high and the products so detailed for the price range, they have been very well received, not only by our "regulars" but also by the new people we are constantly seeking to bring into the hobby who might not be able to afford our higher-priced items. For those who already are Atlas fans, Trainman® provides an opportunity to add items they tell us they feel are compatible and equal in quality. Given the current economic concerns in the US and elsewhere, Trainman proved to be just the right thing at just the right time.
===============================
Proto was a late comer that had teething problems and still have detail errors according to the locomotive gurus.
BRAKIE wrote: TA462 wrote:I don't think Athearn had a choice in improving their products. With the big push for RTR stuff and seeing the quality of Proto, Atlas etc they had to step up or get run over. There is no doubt Athearn is in a game of catch the pack leader-Atlas.However,I fully believe Athearn will do so while keeping the cost affordable.Of course the pack leader (Atlas) had to introduce a more affordable line of cars and locomotives-The Trainman Line.Of course Walthers already had the Trainline and now has the P1K at affordable prices.Of course this is a win-win for the manufacturers and for those of us that has a limited hobby budget.Indeed this is one of the most exciting times to be in the hobby!
I disagree. Theres no way Athearn is going to catch Atlas anytime soon. Although their recent offering of rolling stock has been very good in my opinion, their locomotives are not. I purchased a GP-35 #91768 Blue Box Soo Line loco and have had nothing but motor problems with it. I am going to replace the motor with a mashima I have lying around. Yes, the detailing is waaaay better than the old blue box stuff but still sub par compared to Atlas. I will not purchase another Athearn Locomotive.
And don't forget the MRC decoder debacle. Thats a whole other thread.
I think the quote Larry put above is a good one!
You can't put lower cost but good quality in the same sentence. I've seen the Trainman line and like I said, they are Train Set quality products. A far cry from their regular line in detail and quality.
I completely disagree. Maybe there is a big difference in detail - especially separately applied details (the major difference), but the quality is still way up there. I've got a few examples of Trainman items (the Railbox box car, and the 3-bay coal car) and these are not your daddy's train set train cars. (cheap trucks, plastic wheels, truck mounted couplers, molded on roof walks, paint that is not opaque in many cases, crude molding and detail. uh uh!).
They may get more people into the hobby but in the long run they will probably end up in a box somewhere if the owner was going to get more involved in the hobby.
I've been in the hobby since being a teen in the 70's. I own most of the major plastic brands (Atlas, KATO, P2K, Genesis etc) and some brass. I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday and I am fairly descriminating. I simply disagree that Atlas Trainman are at the level you are discribing. End up in a box some where? Excuse me? These are fairly good representations of real freight cars - just minus the separately applied grab irons and extra fine end cages etc. They are worthy of upgrading for those who really want it, and still need a "correct" freight car that isn't available by any of the "higher" lines of plastic models.
Same goes for Athearn Blue Box loco's. Just because Athearn is starting to get into more detailed RTR loco's doesn't mean they get to move up the food chain right away. Lets see what else they have in store, Atlas and Proto have been in the game a lot longer then Athearn RTR and they have already proven to be winners.
Lets examine those assertions. Proto has "issues" mechanically - Joe Fugate has bemoaned the fact that off all the major brands, they spend the most time consistantly on the work bench. Don't get me wrong, we need SD7s SD9s GP7s GP20s PAs and GP30s but the aren't up there with Atlas and Genesis. Proven winners? P2k have proven to have major issues despite thier nicely detailed shells. Athearn in my book has been moving up with the newly detailed and more prototypically accurate engines in the past couple years. If they improved their motor, then they would be moving right up there, and for the price, they are doing well. Proto's food chain game has been about 15 years. I think only Walthers taking over P2k is going to turn things around - if the F7 is any indication.
I think I"ll have to politely disagree with your generalizations and I think the examples I gave back me up.
Theres no way Athearn is going to catch Atlas anytime soon. Although their recent offering of rolling stock has been very good in my opinion, their locomotives are not. I purchased a GP-35 #91768 Blue Box Soo Line loco and have had nothing but motor problems with it. I am going to replace the motor with a mashima I have lying around. Yes, the detailing is waaaay better than the old blue box stuff but still sub par compared to Atlas. I will not purchase another Athearn Locomotive.
Athearn has a long way to go only in the quality control dept with respect to Atlas, which has it down pretty well. However, Athearn is upping the bar hugely and its Genesis line competes very well with Atlas loco's and freight cars. Yes. The RTR freight car line is in many cases just about on par wtih Atlas freight cars now a days. The RTR loco's are a couple notches below definitly and mostly because of the motors. The shells are catching up fast.
From what I have seen with Atlas Customer Service, its down right poor. I purchased two of their MP15's, and have been missing parts, Air Horns and a snow plow. I thave contacted Atlas NUMEROUS times and have never even gotten a reply about it, I tried calling and they said they would send them out right away, that was two months ago and guess what, no parts.
Fo Athearn, the Customer Service is great, I was missing a part for a Santa Fe Blue Box F45, they said they would get it right out to me. Guess What, they Sent the parts Next Day Postal, and I got them the very next day.
I'm sure everyone can tell varying experiences with customer service, parts, etc. I happen to have always had good service from Atlas, less than good with Athearn, but I haven't bought a lot of Athearn in the last few years. I got sick of them in the 60's and 70's, so tend to steer a path around them.
Bob
Artur wrote:I'm glad that Atlas came out with the trainman locomotives, the whole frame and drive train is identical to the high end stuff. On ebay I just bought an Atlas trainman GP38-2 for $40 and a Atlas GP40-2 shell for about $20, the shell fits right onto the frame and I have a new loco for $60, you're lucky if you find an Atlas GP40-2 for a $100. Hopefully they will come out with other trainman locos.
Huh? Atlas never made a GP40-2, but if you can drop an Athearn GP40-2 onto an Atlas Trainman frame? Cept it isn't really the right length is it? The GP40-2 was lengthened over teh G040 IIRC.
with Athearn, but I haven't bought a lot of Athearn in the last few years. I got sick of them in the 60's and 70's, so tend to steer a path around them. Bob
Obviously you have n't needed SD40T-2s or SD45T-2s! My guess is if you did, you'd be buying them in droves like I have.
I'll make this point and drive it home, it all depends one what loco's and rolling stock you need. You can turn your nose up or not depending on that, basically.
pastorbob wrote: I'm sure everyone can tell varying experiences with customer service, parts, etc. I happen to have always had good service from Atlas, less than good with Athearn, but I haven't bought a lot of Athearn in the last few years. I got sick of them in the 60's and 70's, so tend to steer a path around them. Bob
I know what you mean Bob..I gave up on anything P2K.
I am boycotting Kato simply because they could do much better in HO and chooses not to and I never did receive a answer to my e-mail I sent what three-four years ago now?
So,as I mention many times before if its not a Athearn or Atlas product I no longer interested.O f course this doesn't apply to freight cars other then P1K or P2K.
I thought we were just talking about Trainman loco's? OK, sure the Trainman cars are a step up from my "daddy's" cars but still they are not even close to a Intermountain, Athearn Genesis, Proto 2000 and the regular Atlas line in detail. They perform well and are a great buy to build a fleet quickly but they still scream for more detail, sorry but its true. Put a Trainline car beside a Genesis, Proto, Intermountain and they will lose EVERY TIME.
Well, the origianl Topic was "Thoughts on the New Athearn" and then some folks were making comparisons to them, including Atlas Trainman. Atlas Trainman includes loco's and freight cars. I don't own the GP38 since Rio Grande never had any, but by all reports the drive is quite good, and obviously the shell is pretty basic. Probably a tad better than Athearn blue box, but with a better drive. They are "sans many details" just like Athearn blue box. A good starting point of one has less money and more time and can add those details.
Now, let me offer a very important comment about Atlas Trainman freight cars. I'll start by asking you a question. Do you want a well rounded fleet of freight cars for your era? Does representing a real railroad in model form become more realistic if you can offer a wider variety of freight cars? (Real railroads have a HUGE variety). Well, I want that. Guess what? That means we can draw upon the offerings of many different brands and lines of plastic freight cars to achieve that goal. Atlas Trainman happens to offer the only accurate ACF Railbox 50' box car right? Athearns has the "wrong roof" - I'm assuming you care about prototypical details including actual body features and not just separate grab irons and see through roof walks etc.
Other Athearn Trainman freight cars are also very good copies of prototypes that are not available from other manufacturers. Personally, I'd like to add a few of those cars to my roster so I can move toward a model RR that appears to approach the level of variety that the real thing does, AND use models that aren't "bogus". So what do I do, I do some research with the Morning Sun Book series and try to identify models from Athearn, Accurail, MDC, LBF, E&C, Genesis, Intermountain, Walthers, Proto 2000, Atlas etc etc. Its up to the modeler to decide if he is willing to tolerate having a few models rolling around which don't have separate grab irons, break release bars, ladders etc etc, or etched metal roof walks. Frankly if you have a fleet of hundreds of cars, its a challenge to bring every one up to that level of detail - even if it is a worthy goal.
I too was into trains back in the 70's and I'm a very descriminating buyer. I don't buy garbage and I look for detail, the more the better. Like you I own the higher end loco's, put a Proto up against a Trainmam line loco and the difference is huge. I can't see how you don't see it. You said they are worthy of upgrading? Didn't I already say that? They scream for more detail and make a great starting point I believe is what I said.
Again, the Trainman loco doesn't fit my RR. I'll stand on my above discussion and just say I too have a large fleet now of Genesis and Intermountain freight cars. But, I'm not going to deny myself a few CF4600 covered hoppers since Accurail is the only company making them in plastic and replacing that molded on roof walk is neigh impossible. Or I'm not going to deny myself a correct ACF Railbox box car because it doesn't have separately applied grab irons. You can shave them off and replace them at some point since it is screaming for more detail. I don't buy garbage either. But sometimes you have some models which are the ONLY example of a prototype car so you have to take a "sows ear" and make as silk purse from it - like the Front Range/McKean 62 foot center beam (its the only act in town for that car). I think the Atlas Trainman are alot better than many lower cost cars, and they do provide a very good basis for detailing since the basic model is pretty accurate and pretty well molded.
Everybody knows about the Proto GP's cracked gear problem and how it is now a non issue.
Yes, its a horse beaten to death and easy to fix.
Just because Joe Fugate has bemoaned the fact that off all the major brands, they spend the most time consistantly on the work bench doesn't mean anything. With no disrespect to Joe that is only Joe's experience,
No? I respect Joe because he and bunch of other guys who operate with him, represent many hours of hard operation and his is a good test case of how well certain brand loco's hold up. The cracked gear problem is just the most talked about issue. How about Proto 2000 using very different gear rations in a number of different engines? I'm just taking issue with you generalization that Proto 2000 are "proven winners" when in actuality, they have mulitiple issues arrising from multiple models. Gears cracking, odd gear ranges for speeds that don't allow MUing between just any locos, weird side frame dimensions on the SD50/SD60 locos. The PA units had motor problems on the first run or two. Don't get me wrong, I own them and need them just like I own and need Atlas Trainman. I'm just saying they are only glorified Athearns in many ways, and about 5-10 years ahead of Athearn in providing an RTR well detailed shell, with a drive copied from Athearn and improved upon. Proto 2000 even used the crappy coupler mounting system that I hate! But I still like them over all and own a bunch.
We can agree to disagree but I really can't see how ANY Atlas Trainman locomotive or car matches up with Atlas, Kato, Proto or the Genesis line in quality and detail. Maybe I need to drink some beers first, lol.
Maybe, but it sounds like your above statement has moderated from the original one and is almost putting words in my mouth. I'll just quote your original comment for truth (QFT)
"You can't put lower cost but good quality in the same sentence. I've seen the Trainman line and like I said, they are Train Set quality products. A far cry from their regular line in detail and quality. ... They may get more people into the hobby but in the long run they will probably end up in a box somewhere if the owner was going to get more involved in the hobby."
I never claimed Atlas Trainman freight cars (for example) "matched" Atlas, Genesis or Proto in quality AND detail. I think Atlas Trainman provide tremendous quality for the price, and even approach the quality (care in molding, paint, assembly, and fidelity to prototype) of those higher lines, but obviously the level of detail isn't there - plain to see with my 48 year old eyes which can still focus at 12-14 inches BTW without reading glasses. I'll just end the Trainman discussion by refering back to my above earlier comments. You need some of those if you want to represent those prototypes on your layout and they match your era. They fill in important gaps of models that aren't available in other brands. I have always argued over at Atlas forums that you can't exclude certain brands if you are going to have a well rounded roster. Some lines carry models representing prototypes which - hey - they are the only game in town until someone else offers a better example.
Anyway, the original topic was Athearn... LOL
TA462 wrote: riogrande5761 wrote: Anyway, the original topic was Athearn... LOLThat it was, lol. Like we both said, the Atlas Trainman line is a good starting point to make yourself a nice looking car, then again so is Athearn Blue Box kits. The original topic was based on Ready To Run and as much as we can agree to disagree you can't deny that the Trainman line compared to other RTR stuff is lacking in detail. Sure they are cheap to buy and they look OK from a distance but up close you can clearly see the difference in a Proto or Genesis car for example compared to the Trainman car.
riogrande5761 wrote: Anyway, the original topic was Athearn... LOL
No doubt the detail isn't there. No one can deny that. Perhaps your railroad is of an era and location which didn't typically see such box cars as the American Car and Foundary Railbox box car in trains, or some of those Evans 52' gondolas? Variety is lost if you deny yourself these models. They are basically accurate and just need grab irons if you really have to have that level of detail on every car. Some have pointed out that weathering your fleet blends things and when you look at a freight train as a whole, you aren't always going to be bothered by the molded on grab irons. Personally, I'm more bothered by running "bogus" freight cars that never existed - and even Atlas and Intermountain offers them - just few compared to Accurail and Walthers. High level of detail, but fantasy model.
They look like trainset quality cars compared to the others in my opinion.
I guess train set cars have improved a great deal in quality over the years. I had some old Tyco stuff laying around for a while, and it was in a completely different class than Atlas Trainman, or Athearn blue box or Accurail or MDC - which to me are roughly of the same detail give or take. I realize Walthers and Athearn offers better quality train sets, but go into KB Toys and tell me those train sets are similar to the stuff Atlas Trainman makes. I don't think so.
Everybody has standards in this hobby, some peoples standards for detail are different then others and thats ok. Some people need the durability of Trainman cars because of their "fat fingers" but just because they make a few "fairly" accurate cars but with little or no detail doesn't make them a good quality product. Quality in my opinion is accuracy and detail at an affordable price. In my opinion the Trainman line doesn't meet my standards so I guess we can still agree to disagree.
I agree, everyone has a different level of standards. You can't deny that your roster will be thinner and in a sense, less realistic, by denying yourself prototypically accurate/close models because of some missing detail that you can add with a minimum of effort. Atlas's new Trainman CF4750 Thrall covered hopper is a prime example. Your fleet will be missing this type of covered hopper (unless you fill in with brass - I'm not that rich) if you deny yourself this:
The roof walk is pretty gross looking but the rest is very decent and the end cage looks pretty good for a "trainset quality" model" *cough cough*. I'd imagine Plano will be helping us out and once the Plano etched mental roof walk is painted and mounted, this will be a worthy addition. Yes, its our own railroad and we have to please ourself, but I like having that accurate MDC 52' Railgon gondola which is very common on real railroads and damn if I'm going to not have some in my freight trains. Same with the Athearn/MDC FMC covered hopper. Its an accurate and correct car. Too close to train set quality? for a few maybe, but I believe a model railroad is more realistic including a large number of "correct" models despite a lower level of detail.
Just think, if you limited yourself to Genesis, Intermountain and Proto 2000 freight cars, you'd be missing potentiall 1/2 to 2/3rds of available "correct/close models on the market. Walthers makes a some very correct freight cars that came in kit form which are quite frankly in the ball park of Atlas Trainman and yet are very good copies of the prototype, even if lacking some of that fine detail. Here is an example of fairly accurate plastic models I would deny myself that the D&RGW rostered if I used Intermountain/Genesis as my standard:
-LBF/E&C Gunderson 50' hi-cube-Athearn 86' Greenville auto parts box car-Walthers 50' FGE RBL boxcar-MDC 52' Thrall Railgon gondola-Walthers 52' Thrall gondola (very close but not exact match to one class of D&RGW cars)-Walthers 65' Thrall gondola-Atlas Trainman 40' AAR welded 70-ton tripple coal hopper (again, not exact but close)-Walthers Bethlehem 100-ton 4-bay coal car (admittedly this car detail is close to Atlas Trainman - but a HUGE signature fleet car for the D&RGW)-Athearn PS CF4740 covered hopper (recently offered in super detail form by Tangent but not painted as of yet for D&RGW)-MDC FMC CF4700 covered hopper-Walthers 100-ton Airslide covered hopper-Athearn 57' mechanical reefers PFE/UPFE/SPFE-Accurail CF4600 covered hopper (correct for other railroads but not D&RGW - kit bash 4-bays and replace the roof walk with a plano part and its a great replacement for the Athearn CF5200 4-bay grain/plastics hopper)Those just a sampling from memory of some cars my roster would be missing, glaringly missing if I kept my standard as high as you. But the big trade off is ALOT of missing freight cars - and therefore less realism in that regard.
I'll just close this epside by pointing out that I've read article after article after article in MR, RMC, RMJ, and MRG magazine written by modelers who have studied the prototype and discovered through research which available plastic freight cars match prototype cars of interest to them so they can include them on their model RR. A great many of these cars were of the Athearn blue box, Walthers kit, Accurail kit, and MDC kit form, which had a low level of detail similar to Atlas Trainman. First of all, they idenified which prototypes these cars were good copies of, and second of all, they often would offer ways of improving them. Not all of us have the time to bring every model up to the Intermountain/Genesis level of detail - only in an ideal world where we are retired and can spend most of our waking hours. But, with some weathering the less well endowed models (which are otherwise prototypically accurate or close) still fill out freight trains to make them look like those we observed or are featured in our library of train books.
Maybe
BRAKIE wrote:For the uninformed the Trainman line uses the same Atlas drive as the higher price Classic, Silver and Gold series.They just lack the basic details that the average modeler can add.
Thanks Larry!
I was looking at pictures on the website and quite fankly, they look pretty darn good! They might even be better than the good ol standard blue box Athearn shell which was lacking detail too, but would dress up quite nicely if you added the details.
riogrande5761 wrote: BRAKIE wrote:For the uninformed the Trainman line uses the same Atlas drive as the higher price Classic, Silver and Gold series.They just lack the basic details that the average modeler can add.Thanks Larry!I was looking at pictures on the website and quite fankly, they look pretty darn good! They might even be better than the good ol standard blue box Athearn shell which was lacking detail too, but would dress up quite nicely if you added the details.
Should dress up quite nicely..You can use the Atlas GP38s mu hoses and grabs..Far cheaper then the DW or DA grabs and hoses-see Atlas's GP38 part list for prices.
The shell is straight forward similar to the Athearn GP38-2.The newer Athearn RTR GP38-2s comes with grabs.
The best twist is the air filter box is different.I believe the Atlas is a late GP38-2 which of course is good if your road had both types of air filters.
Cool!
There are alot of N-scalers on another forum. I think it ironic that I've been discussing Atlas Trainman cars with a couple different people, here and at Atlas forums, and how they are talking them down like they are crude train set freight cars. I bet if you shrunk that Atlas TM Thrall CF4750 hopper down to N-scale, it would look like a Genesis model compared to most N scale cars except for the roof walk. There is a discussion on alot of people chosing N or Z if they could switch but to my eye, most N and Z scale trains look crude in comparison to HO. I realize it is mainly because of the difficulty in molding and producing accurately scaled models at those tiny dimensions! I suppose that people like me and cljohns and our Canadian friend here could never model in N scale due to these issues.
Anyway, getting back on topic, I can honestly say that Athearn's RTR line includes some very nicely rendered models. The upgraded MDC Ornter and Thrall coal cars are really nice and yet economical to outfit a coal train with relative to the cost of Genesis and Intermountain freight cars. I got one of the 65' gondolas and it is very nice. There are so many I haven't purchased yet but seen at train shows. The new SD's really raise the bar on prototypical details and I'm just extatic about the tunnel motors coming with correct plows and nose signal lights, leslie roof antenae, correct fuel tank, see through air grills! Saweet!
The trainman cars are far from junk..I place them with the Athearn,Accurail and Walthers cars..A dang good buy for the price especially at street price.
Crude train set cars? Not likely.
Look to Tyco,Bachmann,IHC and Model Power for true train set cars.
As far as N Scale cars there are the Red Caboose cars and of course the Micro Train(MT) cars that is fairly decent.
Even Athearn's N Scale cars isn't that bad.
Another thing that Atlas Trainman series has is a much better cab mold than Athearn Blue Box stuff. The Atlas windows are more flush and rounded than the Blue Box Square windows. Im a stickler for stuff like that, and those SOO GP38-2s that Atlas did are pretty good looking, and could use a bit more detail in the grab irons and horn department, but overall they look nice. My RTR Athearn SOO SD60s are OK runners now, but not anywhere NEAR the quality of my Atlas/KATO/Proto Stuff. Im sure with some oil and run time they will turn out to be quieter and less jerky, but right now its a bit annoying. But one cant deny the great detail to those SD60s, the etched walkways are a great addition, as with the flush windows.
Only thing Athearn could do better with is numberboards, they still look like fakey. Atlas and P2K have the best looking numberboards in my opinion, and have them on non gloss surfaces, plus correct fonts. Im really looking forward to these Athearn SD45s though, I just hope they all run together nicely, because Athearn units seem to be up and down once in a while. My SOO Line SD60s dont run perfectly together, but like I said, Im sure I can get them to be decent after some work. That is an area that P2K,Atlas, and KATO have been proven in, multiple unit lashups, they all run like a swiss watch.
Alec(Who is with Dave on P2k, great locomotives)
TA462 wrote:I too was into trains back in the 70's and I'm a very descriminating buyer. I don't buy garbage and I look for detail, the more the better. Like you I own the higher end locos, put a Proto up against a Trainmam line loco and the difference is huge. I can't see how you don't see it. You said they are worthy of upgrading? Didn't I already say that? They scream for more detail and make a great starting point I believe is what I said.
This quote says it all. If you like all the nit-picky little details, then the Trainman locos are not for you.
I have four Atheran RTR GP35s. The detail is fine, but I bought them because the cab looks more prototypically correct than the blue box version and the hood is scale width. I could care less about little things such as grab irons, lift rings, and all that other stuff that is hard to see from three feet away.