This is an open comment to the MR staff and to everyone. MR does a great job, IMHO, of giving us modelers some great ideas and incite into making our modeling worlds look more like the real thing. Especially when it comes to industries using railroads. My only gripe is, most of the time, the suggestions they make are for industries that will only fit on some gigantic basement or out-building layout. How about helping us guys with 12 x 12' bedroom layouts? The majority of my industries have to be basically flats, since I just don't have the room to devote to massive steel plants, coal mines, grain elevators and the like. What I have a hard time in finding are articles that show us how to make credible structure models that are only 2 or 3 inches deep, but still allow us to park 2 or 3 cars at the freight doors. A recent article by Paul Dolkos did have some tips on modeling the backs of warehouses. But that was just the tip of the iceberg. Please MR, give a little more thought to us small layout modelers!
Thanks very much
John
The Dames Point Industrial Railroad
http:\\dpirr.blogspot.com
Yes, I think that would be a great idea for an article, actually.
In the meantime, check Walthers and search for "Background Buildings." That's the name Walthers uses for its "Cornerstone" series of flats. I took the "Arrowhead Ale" building and made my own decals for it, changing it into the "Strumpet Brewery."
They make a number of others, too. Quite a few are like this one, with the rear view of the building being the face presented. While you're on the Walthers site, sign up for their monthly sale catalog, or pick one up at your LHS. Pretty much every month, one of these is put on sale for a few dollars off the regular price.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
when you think about it theres really no wrong way to model the back of factory or warehouse ( unless youre modeling strict prototype) using parts from DPM and cornerstone you can pretty much replicate any business. Next time youre out in the fields, just pay attention ot the way the loading docks are. Chances are youll notice they pretty much share the same type construction with minor variant. some will have roof, other lighting, some might have a couple of table and chair ( for breaktime) , sometime youll see the occasional dropped load.
If you're also want to increase your traffic but dont have the space for a for big industry, rember your 3 biggest source of incoming and outgoing traffic. Freight depot , team track , interchange. if youre modeling the steam era all the way to transition era every town should have either a team track and a freight depot ( or both) . almost any type of car can be spotted there (hopper might look kinda weird though) and both will produce at least a car load or two of outgoing product
interchange on the other had are even more versatile as theyll take any and all type of car and will output the same. if your layout has at least one large town and a a medium size one, you should have 2 interhcnage. an interchange is just a simple track leading off the to edge or end of your layout to simulate connection to other railroad. As long as u can spot 2 or 3 cars and the other railroad would have access to that spur then youre pretty much all set. interchange dont require any special structure but a little shed might be nice ( for the sake of switching crews)
First, a source of information for the kind of structure you're looking for:
Since you haven't indicated WHEN you are modeling, this will be somewhat general. Grab your camera and sketchbook and cruise the industrial-commercial part of town (or the nearest large city.) Photograph and note approximate dimensions of appropriate structures, concentrating on the side with rail access (if any) and loading platforms. (If anyone asks what you're doing, tell them you're getting raw data for a modeling project, and point out that you are NOT recording addresses.)
Then, put on your scratchbuilder's hat and build them. Or do some Photoshop magic and then put the result on the backdrop, with a siding right in front of the paste-up. If you plan to wait for the hobby manufacturers to produce all the things you want you will have a long grey beard years before you have a 'finished' layout.
In my case, due to my choice of prototype, there is exactly ONE structure kit in my inventory. Everything else will have to be built from raw materials. (That one kit will build up into a nice 1:80 scale five-tiered pagoda, and I already have a place planned for it.)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Well all good responses and I have actually done many of the things suggested. In fact I enjoy scratchbuilding copies of models of buildings. Several of the Cornerstone models are on my layout as scratchbuilt copies. I have scoured the internet looking for pictures of the backs of industries hoping to get some inspiration. What I was suggesting is that MR do a series or a book on just that subject. Doesn't have to be very large. I know they have several books on "Industries you can Model". But like I said most are gigantic structures that take up a whole lot of space. The January issue has an article on building a shelf layout and I had hoped it might have some smaller background type structures. But even that layout has several full size industries.
JB
Well, as has been stated, Flats are common on layouts for good reason (we really don't need to model an entire gigantic plant site, just the portion along the rail siding).Aside - I know background flats have been around for decades, but I don't remember as-designed background flat kits until (I guess) the late 1990s - before that the modeler would just cut up a regular building kit, often using the other 'back' side wall to expand the length of the flat if the walls were all the same pattern. Does anyone remember when purpose-built background flat kits became available (some kit in the 1960s perhaps?) and when they become common (I guess someone had some series before the wave of Walthers flats) - note, flats != background building paintings & images, which have been around forever.
Hmm, I'm thinking of 'Flats' for Chemical Plants & refineries - siding(s) & unloading rack, a line of piping, tanks, stacks etc behind that, and perhaps photo background of a refinery/plant behind that? Big tanks cut in half, positioned against front relective mirrors (which in turn are seemlessly integrated into the backdrop). Diffusely lit to prevent shadows from the piping/stack line? The piping/stack line has to be dense enough to be hard to see through (act as a viewblock so the background image is obstructed somewhat and thus more realistic). Somebody (manybodies!) must have done this - are you out there, and can you post images of the results?
Finally, now that we have some decent (if pricey) model chain link fence, I request the next step - chain link privacy fence (chain link w/ large aluminum/plastic slats woven in, mimicing the opacity of a solid vinyl fence), which is pretty common around these parts (and has been for decades) - this would be great to view block the 'alleys' between large industry flats (and they are fairly common in the real world), so viewers don't see the alley is really 2inches deep and dead ends at the backdrop. Only catch is I'm not that dedicated or good a seamstress...seamster? to weave 100s of thin paper pieces between the metal chain link mesh.
jbu50 wrote: My only gripe is, most of the time, the suggestions [the magazines] make are for industries that will only fit on some gigantic basement or out-building layout. How about helping us guys with 12 x 12' bedroom layouts?
My only gripe is, most of the time, the suggestions [the magazines] make are for industries that will only fit on some gigantic basement or out-building layout. How about helping us guys with 12 x 12' bedroom layouts?
jb:
What's odd is this: go back to 1938 or so, and the scale-railroad scene is a lot like today's in many ways, including this one. You'd see a lot of emphasis on building equipment, but also on replicating the prototype physical plant, and if you didn't have the space for that, you were stuck with a shortline, or you were out of luck. (In fact, in the realm of modeling prototype /track arrangements/, I think they were way ahead of us.) None of us really have enough space for that, though. My 4x8 is 6 scale acres. The small factory I work at would almost take up half of my table, and that wouldn't be much fun.
At some point, I'm not sure how or when, the idea was born that a small railroad could be a lot more fun if the industries were compressed somewhat. This idea doesn't get as much respect as it used to, but I think we should consider it again. (This isn't to say that the Walthers kits aren't already compressed. Frankly, if the very fine Walthers steel mill was built in real life, my long-departed grandfather might have looked at it and said, "Is not steel mill, is son of b___ing coffee mill.")
When the emphasis is on big industries, about the only practical small railroad is the kind with a scenic divider and some big Walthers product on each side. This plan is getting a little tired, but apart from that, these big structures have an undesirable effect of making a small table look even smaller. A number of small structures would not do that.
What you do want to avoid, though, is a small structure that *looks* small. An industry doesn't actually have to be big enough for practicality, but it does have to look the part. Unfortunately, the past geniuses in this field have retired or passed on, and have not generally been replaced, and until they are, the bedroom-layout owners are going to have a hard time.
Who's going to replace them? Why don't you? Get a bunch of back issues, and find out how to make a small industry that looks big. E. L. Moore and Art Curren were good at this. Then write up an article and everybody can benefit.
This building has no backside & is only about 6in deep.
I like to mix two or three buildings together to make a company & I try different combination of buildings.
Some buildings are ok by themselves
Here is a link to a couple of threads about small industries.
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/757090/ShowPost.aspx
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Don't forget that a yard can play host to several small "industries" -- sand for the sanding towers, diesel fuel, coal and so forth all need to be delivered to various points around the yard and cinders need to be hauled away.
I, for one, am determined to finally finish this weekend a kit-bashed Walthers Ice House that I have at one end of Caruth Yard -- yet another "industry" to work!
Craig
DMW
Any building kit can be made into one, or more, low-relief models for the layout. As a general rule, I always site them at an angle to the backscene to make them appear a bit more convincing.
Jon
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tomkat-13 wrote:This building has no backside & is only about 6in deep.
That reminds me of my girlfriend in high school...
But seriously, folks...
There's lots of smallish industries that get rail traffic. A rail unloading facility for heating oil and propane is a good example. Build a siding that handle 4 or 5 tank cars, then fill a yard with long horizontal tanks for propane storage, and a bank of vertical tanks for fuel oil.
A smallish lumber reload can be modeled with a track for 4 or 5 cars and a good size open yard where material is stacked. A reload is where carloads of lumber are stocked for distribution to local lumber dealers by truck. You'd only need a mobile trailer or a small shed for an office.
Of course, the obvious choice is to move to N scale, where you can spread out a little and have more room for railroading in the space you have.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
ranchero wrote: If you're also want to increase your traffic but dont have the space for a for big industry, rember your 3 biggest source of incoming and outgoing traffic. Freight depot , team track , interchange. if youre modeling the steam era all the way to transition era every town should have either a team track and a freight depot ( or both) . almost any type of car can be spotted there (hopper might look kinda weird though) and both will produce at least a car load or two of outgoing product
Note that an "interchange" does not have to be with another "common carrier" railroad. It can be with a private carrier intraplant switching line. One does not need to model the industry. Just provide an interchange track/yard and put up a sign.
Also note that one can often get away with modeling just the loading and/or unloading facilities for an industry. The industry can be in the aisle or reached by conveyors.
Finally, look at industries such produre loading facilities where the goods are simply transferred between transportation media.
Have fun
Small.........
Creameries.
Fuel dealers. Coal and/or Diesel.
Small waterside mills. Textiles...etc....
Specialty manufacturers. Furniture, machine shops.....
Local produce and meat packers. farmer Co-ops.
For small concentrate more on the receiving end of logistic chains/ industries.
Steamage,
What you've done is right in line with what I suggested above. Nice modeling.
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the ancient cliche trick: Track disappears behind low hill or another building (could be a flat.) The only sign of the 'industry' being served is a smokestack, either modeled half-round or painted on the backdrop, with or without an industry name or logo.
One model railroad club, on a now-closed air base, painted "Plant 42" on the stack. It generated some very interesting loads.
jbu50 wrote: This is an open comment to the MR staff and to everyone. MR does a great job, IMHO, of giving us modelers some great ideas and incite into making our modeling worlds look more like the real thing. Especially when it comes to industries using railroads. My only gripe is, most of the time, the suggestions they make are for industries that will only fit on some gigantic basement or out-building layout. How about helping us guys with 12 x 12' bedroom layouts? The majority of my industries have to be basically flats, since I just don't have the room to devote to massive steel plants, coal mines, grain elevators and the like. What I have a hard time in finding are articles that show us how to make credible structure models that are only 2 or 3 inches deep, but still allow us to park 2 or 3 cars at the freight doors. A recent article by Paul Dolkos did have some tips on modeling the backs of warehouses. But that was just the tip of the iceberg. Please MR, give a little more thought to us small layout modelers!Thanks very muchJohn
I'd recommend Model Railroad Planning.
Browse list of contents: http://index.mrmag.com/tm.exe?tmpl=tm_mrp
A few highlight re industries for small layouts:
MRP 1998Linda Sand: "Industrial switching in N and HO" - track plans for big industries on a shelf.
MRP 1999Linda Sand: "Big-city Railroads don't require big spaces"Linda Sand: "Big Industries in small places" (using corners, multiple spots)
MRP 2003Paul Dolkos: "Industrial sprawl in limited spaces" (modelling just the start of the spur leading to a large industry, implying rest of industry hidden behind something)Don Mitchell: "Backdrop bias" (Building flats at an angle)
MRP 2005:Scot Osterweil: "Lots of switching, small space" (very compact shelf layout, using flats, letting tracks go behind buildings)
This is just a few of these articles. For planning tips, definitely get MRP.
Ordering back issues: http://kalmbachcatalog.stores.yahoo.net/model-railroading-model-railroad-planning.html
I also looked up "flat" and "Model Railroader" in http://index.mrmag.com/ and found a few in back issues - probably are a log more, just didn't get a hit on keyword "flat".
Building Sweeney Manufacturing Model Railroader, May 2002 page 76 Techniques for scratchbuilding industrial building flats Jonathan Jones
Landscaping by guess and by gosh Model Railroader, August 1998 page 82 Four scenes showing how to blend three-dimensional modeling into the backdrop Bill Henderson
Building flats as background structuresModel Railroader, June 1980 page 88David Messer
Smile,Stein
tomikawaTT wrote: I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the ancient cliche trick: Track disappears behind low hill or another building (could be a flat.) The only sign of the 'industry' being served is a smokestack, either modeled half-round or painted on the backdrop, with or without an industry name or logo.One model railroad club, on a now-closed air base, painted "Plant 42" on the stack. It generated some very interesting loads.
TTT:
Plant 42's slogan can only be "Solutions for Life, The Universe, And Everything".
The invisible-industry trick is a neat one. The reason I haven't used it is that I think industry models are a lot of fun to build and look at. I like 'em. Maybe this is how other people feel, too, since we don't see the invisibility ploy used nearly as often as we see it suggested. It could be a good way to make a visible building seem like a portion of a larger plant, however. We don't see a lot of foreground-backdrop interaction. Where's the Hotel Gotham hack, waiting at the station, or the City Ice Co. Plant 2?