I dabble too, and find it enjoyable, but as others have said, it doesn't involve touch or "real" construction. If it's the only alternative, then virtual modeling is a wonderful thing but it is still only a two dimensional approximation.
I prefer my models to require lots of different levels of creativity beyond the artistic and to give tactile pleasure as well as visual and aural. And there is a bit of smell involved to. (Not just the occasional burning component but warm ones as well.) A layout room also has a certain whole body ambience that a computer screen cannot begin to approximate.
Karl
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
marknewton- G'day! I have had experience with two RR simulators, both owned by Norfolk Southern. They didn't have (to my knowledge) any simulators of steam, only diesel and only new computer controlled diesels. I would agree that a simulator of a steamer would be a pale comparison, as running a real steamer is such a sensory experience. But when I was on a month old ES44AC a few weeks ago, it absolutely struck me that the engineer's job was quite similiar to a 'puter train game. Comfortable seat, quiet, and a nice computer console to make the engine go. So we might be in more agreement in this area than I previously thought.
But I still stand by the "playing with trains" statement, no matter how realistic the toys are. I don't say this in a bad way, either, just trying to cut through all of the smoke and mirrors and call it what it is.
Jeff-I never stated it was MODEL railroading, I merely compared it to "playing with trains" and in that way, it is absolutely related to the hobby of railroading. Railfanning, modeling a prototype RR, scratch building live steamers, garden railroads based on Disney characters, and running v-scale trains over Bozeman Pass are ALL related, and that was the point I was shooting at. I agree with the general concensus of the respondants that whatever works for each person is fine and dandy. It was the dismissive attitudes, not the valid opinions, that I took issue with.
And I absolutely agree with those that said MSTS could become alot like work, very quickly. In the 4-5 years I've had the game, I made the complete Marias Pass run exactly once. And I still can't figure out how to make the helper respond to the lead engines commands!
It's still the exchange of differing ideas that make this a great site. It's good to know that someone all the way over in Australia can take issue with this simple ol' Hoosier boy!
Take care, all!
Hey Phil, It is certainly a form of playing with trains. But the original poster wants to call it model railroading (which he can if he wants to), and I just don't see that. It's a different hobby, that also happens to involve trains. To take it into a totally different realm (in which my wife has participated from time to time), quilting and knitting are both fabrics arts (or crafts, depending on your point of view), but that does not make quilting knitting, or vice versa. Neither is superior, or inferior, they just are not the same thing.
Now I shall tread very lightly, because the rest of this involves reading WAY between the lines, and often that can be a serious mistake in this medium. I got the feeling from the original posters post that he feels that some people somehow consider his hobby to be 'below' model railroading. To combat this feeling, he'd like to have virtual railroading be model railroading, in a way seeking validation for his hobby. At some level, it feels like he is letting the values others place on his hobby influence the value HE places on his hobby. He needs to realize that his hobby doesn't need to make me happy, or his neighbor happy, or anyone but himself happy, in order to be the best hobby in the world, for him. Taking this thought farther, if model railroaders were too concerned about what 'other people' thought about their hobby (hermits in the basement, geeky nerds) there wouldn't be a hobby.
So, my point is this. Virtual Railroaders should be proud of their hobby, and should have no need to be validated by calling it madel railroading. It looks to me to be a great hobby that develops a great set of skills from research to geography to computer, and probably a lot more I don't even know. And Model Railroaders should have no reason to look down upon, or otherwise diminish a hobby that celebrates trains in a different way.
One final note on the future....I think that the two different hobbies may grow closer in the future, as we operate our model trains from virtual cabs using miniture cameras, etc. I think there will also come a time when we can operate trains on other layouts remotely through the internet. And I expect virtual operating sessions with multiple participants, both on virtualized renderings of physical layouts, imaginary layouts, and the real word. So the lines beween the hobbies may get very blurry. But in my mind, model railroading still needs a model, and to me the model is physical. It could be that the next generation will disagree with that, obviously some already do, but that's the definition that works for me, for now.
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
Jeff- I ALMOST went back and read the original post, glad you did! I pretty much agree with what you say, relying on others to validate your happiness, interests, or anything more than your parking tickets (that should show you how old I am!) is useless, if you like it, LIKE IT!
And the future of computers in MRRing, as in everything else on the planet, is sure to grow. Your concept of running on another person's layout is one worth exploring. And to sit in interactively (is that a word?) on a night of running would be a blast. "Hey Mr. Koester, mind if me and 40,000 of my closest friends come over tonight?"
Take care.