Mobilman44, I am a idiot and I figured out the wring. My bench had tow main lines one powred by a MRC 9500 and other one by a MRC 2400. Had plactic joiner's where the two line hooked to each other at the cross overs. Each line had it own power blocks for the feeders. All I did was hook wires to the blocks to my power booster and off they went! I do not have any reversing loops, more than likely you do. Mrc and other companys make auto reversers that will change the polatry on it own. Think the MRC is around $34.00 or so.
If you like to go sound for under $150.00 try the Blue Line by BLI. I have a GE AC 6000 UP and it sounds great! I got mine from K-10 Trains for $120.00 and a Digitrax DN143IP decoder for $27.95. $147.95 for a sound engine is not bad.
Before it is pointed out it's a N-Scale deoder I know that. It was one of 4 BLI had listed for the engine. Tight fit where the decoder goes.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
tstage wrote:Greg, I think you missed the point of Lionel's book. It's meant as a elementary explanation and primer of how DCC works in very understandable terms - particularly for those who don't have a background in electronics and/or would struggle with manuals that are "heavy" on terminology. I can't tell you how many books I've read where the author begins simply enough...then all of a sudden shifts into third and leaves you in a cloud of dust because he or she "assumes" too much from the reader. I actually found "DCC Made Easy" refreshing. I wish authors did a better job of filling the reader in on basic ideas and concepts before expounding on them.Tom
Greg,
I think you missed the point of Lionel's book. It's meant as a elementary explanation and primer of how DCC works in very understandable terms - particularly for those who don't have a background in electronics and/or would struggle with manuals that are "heavy" on terminology.
I can't tell you how many books I've read where the author begins simply enough...then all of a sudden shifts into third and leaves you in a cloud of dust because he or she "assumes" too much from the reader. I actually found "DCC Made Easy" refreshing. I wish authors did a better job of filling the reader in on basic ideas and concepts before expounding on them.
Tom
Perhaps I did misunderstand the book.
I did think that it would expand on the basics as presented in the basic wireing book, but, to me, all it did was take what was in one chapter and streach it out to fill a book.
I honistly thought that it would give enough info to help me decied between the different systems - and in that regard I felt it left me more confused than ever.
Good Morning!
Thank you all for your comments and opinions - and believe me, I value them all.
The book "DCC made Easy" was a major help to me, giving me some much needed basic knowledge. The fellow at the LHS told me it was out of date, but for my purpose it was just fine. In short, I find the basic premise of DCC easy to understand, but for a layout of size with reverse loops, etc. it can be much more complicated.
My existing DC layout is progressing, with only about 20 ft2 scenery to finish, including roads and people and some additional structures. I am going to "complete" it, and enjoy it until I decide to rebuild - which may be within 12 months or so. The rebuild will either be DCC operated, or wired for DCC but hooked up as DC. Goodness, in 12 months there may be many changes out there to make the decision easier.
Again, thank you all!!!!
ENJOY,
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44:
My own DCC experience is with the AtlasMaster and MRC Prodigy Advance systems. Both work as well as advertised. After considering a purchase of the Digitrax Super Empire Builder to upgrade from the AtlasMaster system (which my son still uses to operate his Lego trains), I found that the Prodigy Advance system promised almost all of the same features but at a price that would allow me to by the entire system plus a second Prodigy Advance handheld for the same price as the Digitrax SEB starter system less a power supply.
As far as operating the system, the Prodigy Advance could hardly be more simple. Should you want to select a locomotive, press the "LOCO" button, enter the desired address, the press the "ENTER" button. You are now in control of the desired locomotive. Need to program a four digit address? Press the "PROG" button once to program on a separate program track, twice to program on the main line. Enter the number of the locomotive you wish to reprogram and press "ENTER". Now enter the new address (2, 3, or 4 digits) and press the "ENTER" button. Your loco now has a new address, even on the main without reprogramming any other locos on the main. The system manual is very brief compared to other systems and the major instructions are printed right in the back of the handheld. You don't need to be computer literate to operate this system. My kids find the system fun and easy, too!
While I can't comment on other systems, I have found the MRC Prodigy Advance system to be everything I need.
Hornblower
Greg H. wrote:I almost did as you thought and at the last minute I decieded to read the one at the library first.I'm very happy I did - after I was done reading the copy at the library, I felt that I realy didn't know much more than I did before I read the book - almost as if it was designed to give a taste of DCC, but, not enough to realy make a good choice and make the reader feel the need to obtaine another book about DCC for more info.
I'm very happy I did - after I was done reading the copy at the library, I felt that I realy didn't know much more than I did before I read the book - almost as if it was designed to give a taste of DCC, but, not enough to realy make a good choice and make the reader feel the need to obtaine another book about DCC for more info.
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Greg H. wrote: mobilman44 wrote: Hi,Just got back from a LHS and got to play with their Prodigy unit that runs a sizeable store layout. I liked the display and the rotary throttle, but was not thrilled with the handheld unit as it seemed awkward (not a showstopper however).After hearing my "requirements", he seemed to think the NCE was my best bet. The store handles NCE, Digitrax and Prodigy. Anyway, I picked up Kalmbach's "DCC Made Easy" book and will use that to get more educated on the subject.I almost did as you thought and at the last minute I decieded to read the one at the library first.I'm very happy I did - after I was done reading the copy at the library, I felt that I realy didn't know much more than I did before I read the book - almost as if it was designed to give a taste of DCC, but, not enough to realy make a good choice and make the reader feel the need to obtaine another book about DCC for more info.
mobilman44 wrote: Hi,Just got back from a LHS and got to play with their Prodigy unit that runs a sizeable store layout. I liked the display and the rotary throttle, but was not thrilled with the handheld unit as it seemed awkward (not a showstopper however).After hearing my "requirements", he seemed to think the NCE was my best bet. The store handles NCE, Digitrax and Prodigy. Anyway, I picked up Kalmbach's "DCC Made Easy" book and will use that to get more educated on the subject.
Hi,
Just got back from a LHS and got to play with their Prodigy unit that runs a sizeable store layout. I liked the display and the rotary throttle, but was not thrilled with the handheld unit as it seemed awkward (not a showstopper however).
After hearing my "requirements", he seemed to think the NCE was my best bet. The store handles NCE, Digitrax and Prodigy. Anyway, I picked up Kalmbach's "DCC Made Easy" book and will use that to get more educated on the subject.
I almost did as you thought and at the last minute I decieded to read the one at the library first.
The problem I think you'll find with any book is that it will be outdated before it is even complete. The foundation stays the same, but the implementations change almost daily. And the implementation is what differentiates the systems. Which leaves wod of mouth, forums, and reviews as the main unbiased sources of information. The other place I utilize to learn about the different systems is the manuals for each system, which are usually available on the manufacturers' web sites. It is not unbiased information, but I find that it helps my understanding about each system, as well as DCC in general. I also look at the NMRA specs now and then, but I have to admit to being a it of a geek.....
Jeff But it's a dry heat!
mobilman44 wrote: Hi,Just got back from a LHS and got to play with their Prodigy unit that runs a sizeable store layout. I liked the display and the rotary throttle, but was not thrilled with the handheld unit as it seemed awkward (not a showstopper however).After hearing my "requirements", he seemed to think the NCE was my best bet. The store handles NCE, Digitrax and Prodigy. Anyway, I picked up Kalmbach's "DCC Made Easy" book and will use that to get more educated on the subject.As someone once said on tv........ "I'm soooo confused.........." Thanks,Mobilman44
As someone once said on tv........ "I'm soooo confused.........."
Thanks,
I've used the prodigy throttle before and do find it awkward. The problem is they put the potentiometer down the bottom, so it takes two hands to run the engine and blow the whistle. It also feels cheap.
riogrande5761 wrote: Glad most resisted the troll comments.
Glad most resisted the troll comments.
The only one commenting on trolls in this thread is you.
If I didn't know any better I'd say you miss those trolls
ami6 wrote: One important thing is, Buy a system with a computerinterface, and download DecoderPro. It makes everything easier to use and easier to understand.
One important thing is, Buy a system with a computerinterface, and download DecoderPro. It makes everything easier to use and easier to understand.
I disagree. For those who just want to simply switch over to DCC and run trains, throwing a computer interface and a software program and having to buy some cheap computer to run it all only makes it more overwhelmingly complicated. You're going to scare those off who are computer illiterate.
A) Buy a starter system
B) Run trains
Tstage, thanks for the info!
"Dumb" question............. If one has a Digitrax (or NCE or Lenz) system, do you have to use the decoders from that particular company? If not, what are the advantages?
Like some other "old guys" in model railroading (I'm 63), I'm pretty good with the mechanical aspects of the hobby (benchwork, tracklaying, design, and DC wiring, etc.). But the new-fangled electronics has just never been easy for me to grasp. Obviously, that has held me back from converting to DCC.
What I need is a "DCC Made Simple for Idiots" book. Do you know of any????
Thanks again,
Remember, a brain is a dangerous thing........................
mobilman44 wrote:One question, I will obviously need a number of similar decoders as I have a lot of Stewart and Proto 2k locos. Where can you get them "in bulk" - from Digitrax or ???
Mobilman,
Empire Northern Models is a very good place to pick up bulk DCC supplies. Tim has some of the best prices around. He can also give you some great advice on how to best wire these up.
For my Stewart FT A-Bs, I installed a Lenz Gold series decoder. Since it comes with BEMF (or Back EMF), it's absolultely crawls at speed step 001.
jfugate wrote: But adding sound to your locos is addictive, so be careful! Once you get used to sound, your non-sound locos just aren't nearly as much fun to run.
But adding sound to your locos is addictive, so be careful! Once you get used to sound, your non-sound locos just aren't nearly as much fun to run.
Aint that the truth.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
Thanks Rio Grande, that certainly makes sense.
I just got off of the Digitrax web sight and figure the whole kit & kaboodle (super chief premium and power supply and handful of decoders) will run about $1k and probably more. But, considering I have been playing with trains for 55 years or so, and hope to do so for another 15 or 20, that is not too bad.
One question, I will obviously need a number of similar decoders as I have a lot of Stewart and Proto 2k locos. Where can you get them "in bulk" - from Digitrax or ???
Do "you all" put one decoder in a unit of locos that you always keep together (i.e. FT A&B)?Thanks,Mobilman44
Do "you all" put one decoder in a unit of locos that you always keep together (i.e. FT A&B)?
You can put a decoder in say, an F7A and then run the wires to the F7B unit. This is possible if the decoder has the amp capacity to handle two motors - and that is probalby possible with such loco's as Stewarts which draw lower current. You would have wires running between the units to hide and could make a plug apparatus so they could be separated. But for another $15 you could just outfit the B units with their own. I doubt many people run two "tethered" loco's off one decoder anymore. Back in the days with Decoders cost 60-80 dollars each, and if money was tight, it very well may have made more sense.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
jfugate wrote:But adding sound to your locos is addictive, so be careful! Once you get used to sound, your non-sound locos just aren't nearly as much fun to run.
Now when I run a non-sound-equipped loco I feel very sharply that I'm getting only a mediocre experience - especially when I want to blow the whistle at the station! Needless to say, my sound-equipped locos run a LOT more than my silent ones.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Folks,
Again, I thank you all for the very useful advice! As I wrote earlier, your advice and comments mean more to me than what I hear from dealers or read in ads. I suspect that I will convert (likely when I do a rebuild of the existing layout) and you all have narrowed it down in my mind to Digitrax, Lenz, or NCE.
I am an advocate for "more power", and a 5 amp system (or more) seems to be the way I will go. Of course like all the electronic gizmos we have today, they will all change and improve (hopefully) and will probably make life easier for the "converts".
One thing I have done to prepare for this eventuality is to sell off all my Athearn and Rivarossi and other older locomotives and upgraded to "DCC ready" locos like the Stewarts, P2K, Bachmann Plus, Atlas, and BLIs. I suspect that will make life easier.
There are three commonly avaliable "high-end" systems, Digitrax, NCE and Lenz. All are good systems and everything, well almost, that you can do with Brand A can be done with Brand B.
I have used Lenz Set100 for several years but switched to Digitrax recently. And to be honest I have more fun operating my layout with the Digitrax DT400 than with the Lenz LH100. But there are features that I miss from Lenz.
simon1966 wrote:Mobilman, you could use 1 decoder, but it would be a pain to wire and would really limit your use. You would also have to be careful about overall current flow. A 4 unit lash-up may well draw enough current to fry a 1 amp limit decoder. Really you should figure a decoder for each powered unit and then run them as a consist.
Another advantage to running them as a consist (besides that you can take them apart) is that you can tune them individualy to run well together. For similar locos it might not matter, but sometimes it may. Also, you could put sound in one of the group. I think the one decoder idea may have had merit at one time, but as decoders have gotten smaller and less expensive the benefits of individual decoders wins out.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
David,
You question marked my "10 locomotives at once"............ Let me clarify that.
The 10 locos is really 3 trains. In example, I like to run an ATSF ABBA FT with all four units powered, and an F3 ABBA, also with all four units powered. For yard work, I often run two Alcos connected as one. And I guess this brings about another question........
Great summary Joe Fugate and having grown up in Davis and Sacramento California - SP is near and dear to my heart! I watched lots of tunnel motors and SD45's run parallel (more or less) to hwy 80 all the way up to Donner Pass and SD9's as well. Beet gons ran right by my house in north Davis up toward Woodland CA.
Anyway, great advice and summary on DCC. I have no layout at present but was building on in the late 90's and did alot of research at the time. I boiled down to Digitrax and NCE. Ended up with a radio Chief but after doing more reading etc, and fiddling, the Chief is very tecno geeky and less intuitive and easy to operate. Mansfield in MRG magazine did alot of cheat sheets to help ease that aspect of operations. I'm thinking I'd go NCE if I had to switch.
The factor that I think is important for anyone to consider are the controllers. Do you like the way the operate, fit in your hand, the throttle nob etc. I liked rotary throttles and that is why it was Digitrax. NCE was thumb wheel at the time and I wasn't enamored with that. Lenz is mostly push button - phooey on that.
Boy this is a can of worms that comes up a lot. I was a hold out for some time for DC only. But when I got my first BLI with sound that ran on DC I was hooked.
Only reason I went DCC was for the sound. Guessing your bench has DC cabs so you can run more than one engine on a line at a time. If you don't care about sound then I would not change to DCC. If you want sound then go DCC.
Down side is a DCC decoder with speakers cost more than some of the engines may be worth. But there is the fun side of the up garding as well. I have a 30 year old War Bonnet FP-45 that I up graded (runs backwards for some reason but I am over that part) and I love seeing this old engine draging freight.
Thanks to T-stage I went DCC with a Bachmann E-Z command. It has it short comings but at around $60.00 off E-bay it was a good start. What I like is it is simple to use. That really means you have less of a chances of pushing the wrong button and mess up your Decoder. Down side is when your decoder messes up on there own, you cannot change the CVs and fix it.
One draw back was it 1 amp power supply when I made the A Line and B Line DCC, for most of the time the A Line was DC powered by a MRC 9500. But thanks to this great site I found a simple and afforable answer. MRC Power Station 8 power booster, for $120.00 I got a 8 amp power booster that will work with any DCC system inc my Bachmann E-Z.
Biggest reason I did not get the Digitrax Zepher was it 2.5 amp power supply. I have big plains and was afraid the 2.5 amp supply would be to little. I will be getting a Zepher next year and and will have the power of a Super Cheif Digitrax 8 amp system.
Want to get your feet wet try the DCC E-Z, need more power Power Station 8.
Have fun and let us know.
simon1966 wrote: This is classic Crandell at his best. This response needs preserving and placing in the On-line-forum-response-hall of fame!
This is classic Crandell at his best.
This response needs preserving and placing in the On-line-forum-response-hall of fame!
Well, if you're right, Simon, I had better hurry back to it and fix that nasty typo (abosolutely) first.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
selector wrote: This is just a theory. If you were to take 20 new and 20 experienced, but DC-familiar, railroad modellers and assign them randomly to brand new systems ranging in what was available in 1997 to what is currently available, and then asked them to be as honest as possible in evaluating the utility of their assigned systems, you would find that the neophytes would have mastered and been quite content with their various systems something like 17-19 times out of 20. Those who had been using DC would probably run the same statistic when all was said and done.When you synthesize all of the responses on the plethora of threads over the years, you find that the greatest variable either alluded to, or that is anecdotally offered as instrumental, is how the user adapts to the demands of the user/equipment interface. From system to system, it is the predisposition, orientation, intelligence, attitude, personality, or the persistence of the operator that determines how likely that user is to defend the virtues of his chosen system in these types of threads.Simply, the systems all do a good job. It abosolutely is incumbent upon the prospective user to find out if one is more utile for one's needs, whether that be the throttle's fit in one's hands or the size of the buttons, the numbers of serviced functions, power supply, and so on.
This is just a theory. If you were to take 20 new and 20 experienced, but DC-familiar, railroad modellers and assign them randomly to brand new systems ranging in what was available in 1997 to what is currently available, and then asked them to be as honest as possible in evaluating the utility of their assigned systems, you would find that the neophytes would have mastered and been quite content with their various systems something like 17-19 times out of 20. Those who had been using DC would probably run the same statistic when all was said and done.
When you synthesize all of the responses on the plethora of threads over the years, you find that the greatest variable either alluded to, or that is anecdotally offered as instrumental, is how the user adapts to the demands of the user/equipment interface. From system to system, it is the predisposition, orientation, intelligence, attitude, personality, or the persistence of the operator that determines how likely that user is to defend the virtues of his chosen system in these types of threads.
Simply, the systems all do a good job. It abosolutely is incumbent upon the prospective user to find out if one is more utile for one's needs, whether that be the throttle's fit in one's hands or the size of the buttons, the numbers of serviced functions, power supply, and so on.
Simply, the systems all do a good job. It absolutely is incumbent upon the prospective user to find out if one is more utile for one's needs, whether that be the throttle's fit in one's hands or the size of the buttons, the numbers of serviced functions, power supply, and so on.