I saw this car online by accident and I'm wondering if it might be a perfect candidate for a simple kitbash. It's a Santa Fe "combine" by IHC. Here's what it looks like:
Pretty crude, I know. But I'm looking for a very simple job, and nothing that will take too much time. I'm also looking for a car that could work on tighter radius curves. When I saw this IHC car my mind was saying this looks similar to the dorms used on the Hi-Level El-Capitan, specifically the Pullman version, #3482. Here's what that car looked like:
Not too bad a match. Plug a few windows, alter the baggage door a bit. Add a radio antenna on top, and of course I'd have to get the Hi-Level adapter too. Give it a new shiny paint job. And add decals, which I already have so that's a plus.
But I don't know a thing about IHC cars. What do I need to know about them? Can the couplers be changed out to Kadee's easily? Or are they like the old Rivarosi cars? Should I replace the trucks, or are they good enough? Are the couplers truck mounted so they can take tighter curves? Anyone know the length of this IHC car? The real Santa Fe 3842 was 79'10" long.
Any other ideas or advice about this IHC car, and my potential conversion project?
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
May I suggest that you use the sides from the Santa Fe historical society. I used them and was very happy with them. I have already painted and lettered the car, along with adding a few more details, and will try to get some updated pics up tonight...
Thanks for the info Smitty. The brass cars sides are definitely on a future to do list, depending on what Con-Cor does with their supposed El Cap set. Although I really wish the brass sides were of cars 3480 and 3481 or 3482, and not 3477-3479. I've never really been a fan of the baggage door position on 3477-3479 or the 85" length. But your version still looks great
Anyway, right now I'm looking for a cheap and quick conversion. Hoping the IHC car might fill the void for a while. I'm sort of sick of my long ago converted Athearn baggage car, it just never looked right
I completely forgot, I also was wondering what I could use to simulate the bluish tinted windows on the Hi-Level cars. I'm thinking of some blue/clear plastic behind the windows, but I'm not sure what to use or even where to find it.
Most of the photos used for reference were all black and white. I never realized how blue green the windows were until I looked at some color photos. Take a look:
I have been trying to find a cheap and easy way to to the timting for years. I found a site that had a Pantone strip you could print off on to transperancy paper, but that would turn into more of a hastle than it is worth. Plus the transperancy paper for printers is VERY expensive. I don't think that any of the paint manufacturers that offer the clear paints offer anything close to that shade. If I can find that site, I will post it for you if you want to fool with it.
I am just the opposite of you as far as my taste in the baggage dorms. I always preferred the baggage door being set further down the side. Like I said, just watch out for that transition top.
For the tinting I was thinking of cutting up a clear/blue Report Cover into 2 long strips and gluing it to the window backs. I bet I could do a whole train and them some with just one, but then again the material is probably too thick.
I'd like to see the Pantone site. I have some printer transparency paper that's been sitting around for years and a color laser printer. Might be worth a try.
IHC-Trucks and wheels are crap. They'd have to go. They need weight. (no big deal) Couplers are truck mounted. McHenry makes a drop in but since your going to chuck the IHC trucks, try and go with the Athearn ones. They are cheap and also have truck mounted couplers for tighter radius.(some models) They really don't have much underside detail. (don't know if that matters to you) The IHC windows are just a rectangular box that is glued to the roof. You could probably buy a roll of automotive window tint to do those. (I've seen that green color before)
That's all I got...
... I'm also looking for a car that could work on tighter radius curves...
80' passenger cars are too long to run well on sharp radius curves. Part of your kit bashing should include shortening, to make a 72' car (10.5"). or adding 10" to your layout width to allow 36"r curves.
IHC's are cheap imitations of Rivarossi's cars. You might see what the new owner has planned to reissue. (My Opinion): IHC's original OEM trucks are pretty poor.
Trucks are definitely out. I've been reading the old threads here about them and they seem to be horrible.
Will Athearn trucks fit? I have some extras. But I'm worried since I'm familiar with those dang Rivarossi style trucks that clip/snap in and have no screws. With the hole already there it might make for a more difficult change out then I'd like to bother with on a temporary car.
I wonder if Walthers trucks, or even Train Station Products will fit, without much work. I have some of these too for spares. Unfortunately not exactly the right type, but again being a temp car, I'm not super worried about that.
I'm also not too concerned with any end doors since it will always be hidden by a Hi-Level on that end.
Don Gibson wrote:80' passenger cars are too long to run well on sharp radius curves. Part of your kit bashing should include shortening, to make a 72' car (10.5"). or adding 10" to your layout width to allow 36"r curves.
I'm not exactly sure what the tightest radius curve is, but the 85' Hi-Levels work fine. Actually any truck mounted coupler passenger car will work. So I'm not super tight. Unfortunately the layout was built by my dad way back in 1973. Athearn cars is all that ran on it for years. I've been able to widen certain sections, but one cut through the desert section would require too much work to widen. I've always hinted to him that I'd love to start from scratch with 36" as a minimum, I'd actually like to go with 40 as a min since I prefer to run passenger trains. But first things first.
Just to show the goods, I am posting some pics of the completed car. The last pic is the colors I was talking about, but the site I got this page from is gone. I believe it was from the San Diego Model RR club.
BTW, I am going to do another car so I can get the cowling just right. As you can see, things got crazy with the Squadron putty.
csmith9474 wrote: Just to show the goods, I am posting some pics of the completed car. The last pic is the colors I was talking about, but the site I got this page from is gone. I believe it was from the San Diego Model RR club.BTW, I am going to do another car so I can get the cowling just right. As you can see, things got crazy with the Squadron putty.
Hey, Chris, the car is looking good. FYI, the ATSFRRH&MS has new ACF car sides available. They are the smoothside ACF RPO and smoothside baggage. The windows were/are tinted in a blue green shade. Your best bet is to use Tamiya's clear green mixed w/just a hint of clear blue.
Charlie
MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub
Nice job, Smitty. Those transistion cars are always hard to make look right.
Matt, I agree with Loathar's recommendations. Kadee has a replacement coupler that fits the talgo arm of the Athearn passenger car trucks if you don't want to body mount the coupler. If I remember correctly that dorm car was a slightly non-standard in length, about 76', but I don't think that will really matter. The IHC passenger cars I've seen have the trucks held in place with a pin. You can remove the pin and then fill the hole with putty. When dry, posistion the Athearn truck, checking for coupler clearance, and drill and tap a 2-56 screw hole. You don't need too long a screw, one a little longer than the standard Athearn truck screw will do fine.
I use bullet shapped fishing weights that I CA to the insides of the car, two per side. They are below the window line and seem to provide good balance and tracking.
Without a Pantone to match exactly the window tinting, I think any sort of bluish-green tint will look good enough. I'd get a can of Testor's Transparent Blue paint and give the windows a light spray. It's easy to do this since the whole inside is clear plastic and you only see the plastic where there's a window opening. Combined with some window shades or venetian blinds, I think the effect will be perfect for what you're trying to acheive with a temporary car.
Thanks for all the advice. And Smitty that car looks awesome.
I should clear one thing up though. The temp cars windows will stay the same. I'm going to do the tinting on my Hi-Levels, not the dorm. Sorry for the confusion. From the few photos I have, it doesn't look like the dorms got tinted windows when they were supped up for the El-Cap.
I sent an email to AMB (the makers of laser cut Hi-Level windows), to see if they might do tinted windows in the future. Not sure of the chances, but doesn't hurt to ask.
Update:
Smitty, thanks for that pantone sheet. I found a .pdf online of the whole article and more window sheets. Man Google is great. Here's the link:
Tinted Windows
Southwest Chief wrote:For the tinting I was thinking of cutting up a clear/blue Report Cover into 2 long strips and gluing it to the window backs. I bet I could do a whole train and them some with just one, but then again the material is probably too thick.
I've been using that technique on C&O-prototype streamlined cars for a couple of years now with very nice results. For example, on Walther's streamlined coaches, I glue a single strip behind each side's windows, holding it in place with silicone RTV caulk. The thickness of the report cover material is not apparent, and doesn't detract from the appearance, at least not to my eyes.
-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.http://www.pmhistsoc.org
Southwest Chief wrote: Thanks for all the advice. And Smitty that car looks awesome.I should clear one thing up though. The temp cars windows will stay the same. I'm going to do the tinting on my Hi-Levels, not the dorm. Sorry for the confusion. From the few photos I have, it doesn't look like the dorms got tinted windows when they were supped up for the El-Cap. I sent an email to AMB (the makers of laser cut Hi-Level windows), to see if they might do tinted windows in the future. Not sure of the chances, but doesn't hurt to ask.Update:Smitty, thanks for that pantone sheet. I found a .pdf online of the whole article and more window sheets. Man Google is great. Here's the link:Tinted Windows
That is the PDF that I got the sheet from. I don't know why the link I have for it in my faves doesn't work anymore. The article itself in quite interesting as well. Thanks for finding the working link so I can update!!
And thanks for the compliment on the baggage/dorm. It was attempt #3.
fmilhaupt wrote: Southwest Chief wrote: For the tinting I was thinking of cutting up a clear/blue Report Cover into 2 long strips and gluing it to the window backs. I bet I could do a whole train and them some with just one, but then again the material is probably too thick. I've been using that technique on C&O-prototype streamlined cars for a couple of years now with very nice results. For example, on Walther's streamlined coaches, I glue a single strip behind each side's windows, holding it in place with silicone RTV caulk. The thickness of the report cover material is not apparent, and doesn't detract from the appearance, at least not to my eyes.
Southwest Chief wrote: For the tinting I was thinking of cutting up a clear/blue Report Cover into 2 long strips and gluing it to the window backs. I bet I could do a whole train and them some with just one, but then again the material is probably too thick.
I use MicroScales Kristal Klear to attach shades and Venetian Blinds to my windows. Works really well, is extremelly stong and is water soluable if you need to remove and replace any type of window treatments. I've used Tester's Clear Blue in the paint bomb and prefer to air brush the tinting on my windows. You might want to try Railway Classics as they have the window tinting in sheet form.
Ch
www.railwayclassics.com
loathar wrote: IHC-Trucks and wheels are crap. They'd have to go. They need weight. (no big deal) Couplers are truck mounted. McHenry makes a drop in but since your going to chuck the IHC trucks, try and go with the Athearn ones. They are cheap and also have truck mounted couplers for tighter radius.(some models) They really don't have much underside detail. (don't know if that matters to you) The IHC windows are just a rectangular box that is glued to the roof. You could probably buy a roll of automotive window tint to do those. (I've seen that green color before)That's all I got...
Re: IHC passenger cars
EASIEST UPGRADE is IHC (yes) metal trucks and McHenry or Kadee 'Whisker couplers. LONGER couplers help negotiate a 22 " radius.
BETTER is Body mounted Kadee 30 series with wider curves. (I use #38/33 combination with #6 turnouts and 26"r).
BEST is 36" wheeled trucks, Kadee body mount couplers, JB coupler pads, and weighting to 6 3/4 oz. PROBLEM is the reluctance to invest $$ in a $7 cheap piece of painted plastic.
IF you have 18" curves and 'Snap track' switches: you will have problems with long cars. SO BUY Athearn passenger 'shorties' with Talgo type trucks).
PS: The BAGGAGE DORM carS ATSF converted for their Super Chief/El Capitan was unique to Santa Fe. 'Tonnage' suppliers such as Athearn cannot sell enough of this single item to justify their costs, so modeler have to do what the Santa Fe did - modify an existing car.
UPDATE:
Before I go and waste money on my proposed IHC conversion, I wanted to run a test of an old Rivarossi "Blue Goose" observation I had sitting around to see if it made my curves.
The trucks are pretty junky. I replaced the plastic wheels with 36" metal Intermountain wheels. Big improvement. The brake shoes had to come off, but who really cares. The talgo horn hook coupler gave me the most issues. I had to dig though my coupler box to see if I had any horn hooks so I could run this stupid car. Found one and used an idler car with a Kadee on one end and horn hook on the other just so I could run the car. After several times around I saw no radius problems or derailment issues what so ever, even without adding much needed weight.
I'm guessing my curves are closer to 23" at the tightest spot. There isn't much overhang (but there is some) from these 85' cars like I've seen on 18".
Are IHC trucks the same as Rivarossi (actually AHM...what my box says)? I didn't notice any wobble that I've seen reported on IHC cars.
Also, avoid reaming the trucks with the "tool". It ate through one end. The trucks were fine without the reaming. Now I wonder if I screwed things up by using the "tool" on such thin trucks.
The Santa Fe "El Cap" dorms were not that unique a car, as Don pointed out. All Santa Fe did was take existing baggage/dorm/coaches and converted them to straight baggage dorms. The Hi-Level adapter and radio antenna were the biggest external changes, sans a few windows blocked out.
Here's a photo of 3482 before any "Hi-Level" modifications:
And the IHC model again:
Not a perfect match by any means, but the closest I've seen in plastic HO models so far. Interestingly, the number IHC uses, 1380, is from a Budd Baggage/Dorm/Lounge dating to 1937. Not only is the IHC roof not a Budd roof, but 1380 also carried a name in the center name board (1380 = San Miguel). They molded the two side number boards where 1380 should go, and the center where San Miguel should go...IHC for you. The window arrangement is pretty bad when compared to the real 1380. I think 3482 would have been a better # choice given the smooth Pullman style roof.
Here's a folio of the real Santa Fe 1380 (San Miguel)...Way to go IHC :
Yet another question
On a whim I converted the trucks on the AHM observation with some extra Train Station Products outside swing hangers I had. What a difference. Wow the car tracks great. I also added some Athearn style weights. Helped a lot too. But they take up too much room.
So if I do go with the IHC car I'm definitely going with my TSP trucks. But I'm wondering about weights. Has anyone seen these weights made for IHC cars?
IHC Weights
I am with the TSP trucks all the way!! That is all I use. I should have mentioned them before. Nice, ain't they. If you use Kadee wheels, you will have to use a truck tuner on them. I don't know how the Intermountain wheels work with the TSP trucks. On my next project, I am going to use the IM wheels, so I will find out then.
Anyhow, have you considered the Palace Car Company interiors? That is who TSP and Intermountain use for the hi level interiors. They are simple and relatively inexpensive interiors. You may want to try Red Cap, but it sounds like you are going to use this as an "interim" car until something better comes along, so I don't know how much time and money you want to sink into it.
I would ditch the Athearn weights and go with the weights like A-Line sells (the ones with the two sided tape). They don't take up a lot of room, and install quick. Below are examples of how I hid them in a Palm and Regal sleeper...
Thanks Smitty. I didn't even think about the A-Line weights. Yeah those should work perfectly. I agree, Palace interiors are nice, and Red Cap are the best. But like you said, not sure if I want to sink anything into a temp car. But I suppose an interior could be used over again in a better car. So might be worth it to get a good interior now.
As for the trucks, do you or anyone else know if TSP makes trucks like the ones found under the real 3482? (see the photos I've posted in this thread) They look like standard GSC leaf spring trucks with Timken bearings. But I'm not sure what the technical name is.
I have Kadee, TSP, and Intermountain wheels. The Intermountain, at least I think they are Intermountain work the best. They are silver color, 36", and fairly heavy. They came on the Intermountain ready to run Hi-Levels...so not sure if Intermountain or maybe NWSL. TSP wheels (brass) are pretty good too. Kadee are light but do look great when the tread is polished. And yes TSP trucks must be tuned for the Kadees to track well.
The Coach Yard makes the type of trucks that the 3482 rode on but, they are expensive, 45.00 for a set.
I built up a 6 car train of IHC streamliners painted for the B&M. I went with body mount Kadee #5 couplers. A couple of bits of strip styrene to shim the coupler boxes flat and a #2 self tapping screw to secure the coupler box in place. The resulting train could handle 18" snap track curves. Another way to go is McHenry, they make a long long shank coupler that will clip into the IHC truck mount.
I mail ordered interiors and metal wheels from IHC. For weight I used sheet lead roof flashing, cut to size and laid down under the floor of the interior.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Well I went ahead and ordered the IHC combine, along with the trans top. I had a lot of other little items and detail parts that I had been meaning to get so I went ahead and ordered the car too. I think I'll take photos as I go along with this project and post them here. Sort of a quick and dirty how to make a temporary car.
But in the mean time I'm seriously considering lighting my Hi-Levels via track power. A simple flicker free lighting unit is in the works, and I already have some surface mount super bright white LEDs. I'll have to get or make some axel wipers for the trucks. But the biggest problem is trying to figure out what size screws come with TSP trucks? They are pretty big. Normally the light wires are connected to the truck screw. But the TSP screws, apart from being wood screws, not machine, are kind of short and do not go through the frame all the way. I've been considering changing to longer machine screws with a washer and nut to hold it against the frame. But I just can't figure out the size of the TSP screws. Might be a 5-40, but I'm not sure.