She's all painted and lettered, and looks better then I'd ever expected. Here are a few photos:
Height comparison. Because of some tight curves I have to use longer shank Kadee's (26) on the Hi-Levels, which means the diaphragms will never touch
Under normal room lighting.
Same area, but using a flash.
Oh, and here is a teaser photo showing some interior lighting tests I've been working on. This has three super bright white surface mount LED's. I got a pack of 50 on eBay for $7.00! I'll probably go with four to have more evenly distributed light. But as a test I think it shows promise. I'm using axle wipers from some very old Jay-Bee light kits originally used on my old Athearn cars. Unfortunately they are not long enough for the diner. There is a flicker free assembly in there too and works really nice with DCC.
I'm very pleased with this IHC car conversion. Not bad for a car that started out under $10. Adding up all the accessories, upgrades, and paint it's now slightly over the typical price of a Walthers car. Still not bad. And it was fun to build too.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Arjay1969 wrote:I haven't actually put the antenna on it yet, but I was planning on using the handrail stanchions I had left over from the old Athearn Blue Box locomotives.
Robert, the Warbonnet (Santa Fe Historical/Modeling Society Magazine) article on modeling Hi-Levels suggests the short Athearn stanchions for these dorm car antennas. So you're right to use the Athearn stanchions.
csmith9474 wrote:I happen to have a bunch of those eye bolts laying around. I also have some wire so I will give it a shot.
I used a #80 bit for the eyebolt holes on the roof. The wire was slightly larger, can't remember exactly, maybe a #72. The whole process was kind of tricky. Lining up the small holes was tougher then I had expected. And the whole thing would sag or rise at certain spots until I glued it in place. But once it's done it looks pretty neat. I'm wondering if I should brush a light primer on the wire...not sure if the airbrush will completely cover it when I get to that point.
Chris, you used bright silver on your cars right? I have stainless steel and Santa Fe silver in the paint box, but I'll likely go and get bright silver. It seems to be the standard for shinny cars without going the metalizer (Alclad) route.
Southwest Chief wrote:The antenna is .019" round brass wire. I used Detail Associates eye bolts for supports. They are a little short compared to the real thing but were the best thing I could find at my local hobby shop.
I happen to have a bunch of those eye bolts laying around. I also have some wire so I will give it a shot.
BTW, I had "my guy" see if he could get his hands on some DA hi level detail kits. You had asked about the end yokes, and that is the only way that I know to get them. He was able to get the detail kits before even when Walthers wasn't able to. I need some myself for my upcoming Sunset Limited project (I need the end yokes for the TSP Budd core kits), although I believe I mentioned that previously. Sorry for repeating myself.
Nice work!
I built one of the Union Station Baggage/Dorm kits and fitted it with the TSP roof adapter a while back. Now I'm tempted to get one of the IHC cars too!
Oh, and I haven't actually put the antenna on it yet, but I was planning on using the handrail stanchions I had left over from the old Athearn Blue Box locomotives. They almost always put more in the package than was needed, so I ended up with quite a collection of them.
Robert Beaty
The Laughing Hippie
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The CF-7...a waste of a perfectly good F-unit!
Then it comes to be that the soothing light at the
end of your tunnel, Was just a freight train coming
your way. -Metallica, No Leaf Clover
That is coming along REALLY nicely. Looks like a little bit more than just a "temporary fix". I wished you wouldn't have shown one of your hi level cars with shades. That just reminds me that I really need to get the shades started on mine, which is a project that I have been intentionally putting off. It is going to be a real pain since the windows have the split panes/shades.
Speaking of glazing, I am going to get your glazing and gate in the mail either today or tomorrow. I did find one Budd style gate in my "stash". I had meant to do it earlier, but I have been a little sick.
BTW, what did you use for the antenna? That looks pretty good, and as you can see, I need to add that detail myself. I called the Walther's parts dept about getting the "Pleasure Dome" antenna assembly seperate, but that was a no go. I think it may ba little too tall anyhow.
I was busy this weekend
The IHC car and other parts came in Friday. So I spent the weekend bashing up Santa Fe dorm 3482. All the fabrication work is done, which included:
Blanking three side windows, changing baggage doors to 2 window instead of 3, addition of radio antenna, add name boards, blank out front vestibule window, cut out rear vestibule door, add basic interior, change out trucks, add weights, and add a corridor window bar.
What's left to do:
Lower the airfoil adapter to match Hi-Level height, putty around airfoil adapter, windows, etc..., paint and letter, add window shades, and possibly look into interior lighting.
Here are a few photos of the car in progress:
I was surprised at the quality of the IHC car. Of course the trucks were garbage, but the change to TSP trucks was easy. I also ordered the weight set by Adair Shops that was mentioned in an earlier post. It was only $5.14 and is a nice set of multiple flat weights that make the total a little over 7 oz. She's a heavy brute now and tracks superbly. I love that the weights are thin so adding an interior couldn't be easier.
The other details and additions were more than I initially planned on, but the car turned out better then I'd expected and it will likely be running a lot longer then as an interim car.
In one of the photos I placed the new car next to the old Athearn baggage that was my dorm car for the longest time. The airfoil adapter on that car was from Union Station products (they don't make the adapter anymore). It was a nightmare to work with and needed substantial plastic support and putty just to get close to the right shape. The TSP airfoil is far superior.
I was also surprised to see in the accompanying information with the TSP adapter mentioning to use the IHC combine. Also mentioned were brass cars sides, and a Union Station kit.
I'd be glad to answer any questions from anyone interested in attempting a similar project.
About that window tinting. Here is what the "sheets" I'm using look like after cutting:
Not bad, and really easy to do.
They come from a set of transparent color tab dividers found at Walmart. The product name is Wilson Jones 5 polly insertable color tab dividers. You get 5 sheets, clear, blue, green, orange, and yellow. The blue is pretty good for Hi-Level window tinting. And the green is also good for that style of tinting. The other colors, well I suppose the clear could be used for thin window glazing...not much train wise you can do with orange and yellow. The whole set costs $1.00.
I cut strips 1/2" wide, and left the 11" length. The material is really thin and about the same thickness as a piece of paper. I trimmed the length to fit the length of the Hi-Level windows, which is just slightly under 11" (about 10 13/16"). You can do around 9 cars, depending on how well your cuts are. I goofed and cut the length too short on four strips
Once glued in place the tinting is very subtle. I'd love to see what the tinting looks like with interior lighting. Photos of the cars with tinting installed will be posted later on (likely the weekend), just been too busy.
csmith9474 wrote: Charlie wrote: csmith9474 wrote: I am not sure what I am gonna do about lighting for the hi levels. I have been trying to figure the same thing out for a while now. I though about wipers, but as you know the Super/El Cap is a fairly long passenger train, and I want as little as possible resistance on the wheels. If you go with the "Easy Peasy" lighting, keep us posted. That may be the ticket. Chris, have you thought about using Rapido's lighting kit? Might be worth looking into. I will be adding several to my cars. You should come to my neck of the woods. I know where you can actually see a 400 series Superintendents car.ChThe Rapido lighting is what I was talking about. I believe they refer to their lighting kits as "Easy Peasy". I haven't seen them myself but I have heard they look more like flourescent lighting. I have considered flourettes, but that would be a major chore.As far as the division super cars, I was a member of the Texas Tranportation Museum for many years and I spent quite a chunk of my time doing restoration work on the 404. That is why I chose that road number when I pre-ordered one. I know that car like the back of my hand. I have also been through the 401 that is located in Seguin, TX. Unfortunately that car is better suited for the scrapper's torch. It is in very bad shape. We tracked down the owner of the 401 and asked if he would consider donating it to us (we wanted some parts such as the trucks). He said he would only let the car go to somebody if they agreed to restore it to running condition which in everybody's best estimate will never happen. The interior is trashed from years of vagrants living in it, and there are no more interior fixtured left (I really was hoping to find some cove lights in there). I also believe the diesel generator is still in the 401, which we really wanted for the the 404. In general I think that the shorty's are great cars!! I also made it through the 407 that is located in Brownwood, TX, and it is in really good shape. Last I heard the fella that owned it donated it to the city of Brownwood. That car still had the original dining room table, chairs, and buffet in it. WOW!!!!!! That is one heck of a table.Which car is near you? I used to have a pretty good track of where all the remaining cars are, but forget the locations of a few. I really hate what the museum in Galveston did with theirs, but at least they are taking good care of it. Do you have access to the car near you? If so, it may be worth the drive from here to check it out.
Charlie wrote: csmith9474 wrote: I am not sure what I am gonna do about lighting for the hi levels. I have been trying to figure the same thing out for a while now. I though about wipers, but as you know the Super/El Cap is a fairly long passenger train, and I want as little as possible resistance on the wheels. If you go with the "Easy Peasy" lighting, keep us posted. That may be the ticket. Chris, have you thought about using Rapido's lighting kit? Might be worth looking into. I will be adding several to my cars. You should come to my neck of the woods. I know where you can actually see a 400 series Superintendents car.Ch
csmith9474 wrote: I am not sure what I am gonna do about lighting for the hi levels. I have been trying to figure the same thing out for a while now. I though about wipers, but as you know the Super/El Cap is a fairly long passenger train, and I want as little as possible resistance on the wheels. If you go with the "Easy Peasy" lighting, keep us posted. That may be the ticket.
I am not sure what I am gonna do about lighting for the hi levels. I have been trying to figure the same thing out for a while now. I though about wipers, but as you know the Super/El Cap is a fairly long passenger train, and I want as little as possible resistance on the wheels. If you go with the "Easy Peasy" lighting, keep us posted. That may be the ticket.
Chris, have you thought about using Rapido's lighting kit? Might be worth looking into. I will be adding several to my cars. You should come to my neck of the woods. I know where you can actually see a 400 series Superintendents car.
Ch
The Rapido lighting is what I was talking about. I believe they refer to their lighting kits as "Easy Peasy". I haven't seen them myself but I have heard they look more like flourescent lighting. I have considered flourettes, but that would be a major chore.
As far as the division super cars, I was a member of the Texas Tranportation Museum for many years and I spent quite a chunk of my time doing restoration work on the 404. That is why I chose that road number when I pre-ordered one. I know that car like the back of my hand.
I have also been through the 401 that is located in Seguin, TX. Unfortunately that car is better suited for the scrapper's torch. It is in very bad shape. We tracked down the owner of the 401 and asked if he would consider donating it to us (we wanted some parts such as the trucks). He said he would only let the car go to somebody if they agreed to restore it to running condition which in everybody's best estimate will never happen. The interior is trashed from years of vagrants living in it, and there are no more interior fixtured left (I really was hoping to find some cove lights in there). I also believe the diesel generator is still in the 401, which we really wanted for the the 404. In general I think that the shorty's are great cars!! I also made it through the 407 that is located in Brownwood, TX, and it is in really good shape. Last I heard the fella that owned it donated it to the city of Brownwood. That car still had the original dining room table, chairs, and buffet in it. WOW!!!!!! That is one heck of a table.
Which car is near you? I used to have a pretty good track of where all the remaining cars are, but forget the locations of a few. I really hate what the museum in Galveston did with theirs, but at least they are taking good care of it. Do you have access to the car near you? If so, it may be worth the drive from here to check it out.
Chris, the car is right off of HWY 56 and is coupled to ATSF 1348 (PSCM LWT Lounge and a ATSF PSCM Topeka built baggage car.) I think the car is 402-403 or 405. The Great Overland Station here in Topeka is scheduled to get the car I think. The car is owned by a gentleman named Marvin Roberts who owns JMJ trucking. I think the car is in the ATSF green w/silver roof. It's been a while since I saw the car.
MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub
Southwest Chief wrote: csmith9474 wrote:BTW Chief, If you need any more of the AMB glazing for replacing the IM glazing in the hi levels, let me know. I have a lot of extra sets and don't want to fool with trying to sell them. I saw you did the diner already so you probably did the rest of your cars, but I put the offer out just in case. I could definitely use a few more sets (I had to cannibalize my existing TSP fleet), send me an email at SouthwestChief@gmail.comI found something that might work for window tinting, cheap and easy too. I'll post some photos later on.
csmith9474 wrote:BTW Chief, If you need any more of the AMB glazing for replacing the IM glazing in the hi levels, let me know. I have a lot of extra sets and don't want to fool with trying to sell them. I saw you did the diner already so you probably did the rest of your cars, but I put the offer out just in case.
I could definitely use a few more sets (I had to cannibalize my existing TSP fleet), send me an email at SouthwestChief@gmail.com
I found something that might work for window tinting, cheap and easy too. I'll post some photos later on.
I thought about selling them on eBay, but I watched some sets a while back and they didn't fetch much. I don't even want to fool with the listing fees.
Check your e-mail.
Edit: I am just trying to pass on Charlie's good will.
csmith9474 wrote:I am not sure what I am gonna do about lighting for the hi levels. I have been trying to figure the same thing out for a while now. I though about wipers, but as you know the Super/El Cap is a fairly long passenger train, and I want as little as possible resistance on the wheels. If you go with the "Easy Peasy" lighting, keep us posted. That may be the ticket.
Lighting. Always fun to do, always looks good. I have tried a number of things. Hoping to eliminate the flicker problem, I fitted a type N dry cell battery under the car, hid a tiny slide switch in one of the undercar fittings and two 1.5 volt bulbs inside the car. It works, but the battery lights just ain't bright enough, no one can see the lights unless the room is darkened a lot. Then I tried a 0.47 Farad super capacitor. This required a full wave rectifier, a 5 volt regulator, three diodes and an npn transistor. It works, and fits inside cabooses, but fills up a lot of space inside the car making it tough to do an interior. The capacitor holds enough juice to keep the lights on for 20 seconds after track power is removed, which is plenty to eliminate flicker. I have a caboose with marker lights using this circuit, but it was too much trouble to do a fleet of passenger cars with this circuit.
The final solution is a Walthers made constant brightness lightbar, Catalog number 933-1049 or 933-1058, $10.98 in the 07 Walthers book. These can be adapted to fit non Walther's cars. They are a little expensive but they look good. For power pickup you want axle wipers, wheel wipers have too much friction and will stall out your train. Wipers should be cut from phosphor bronze, brass isn't springy enough. I cut mine from a piece of weatherstripping and secured them to the trucks with 2-56 machine screws.
The roofs of many passenger cars tend to glow all over from internal lighting. I use shiny bright Christmas ribbon stuck to the ceilings of the cars to keep the roof from glowing and reflect as much light as possible out the car windows. Painting the car interior a light color also helps brighten the lights as the typical black plastic interior is a black hole. Weighting the car up the NMRA standards helps keep the lights from flickering while moving.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Hey, the diner looks great!! I haven't done shades yet, and am not gonna do figures in my diner. I decided it is not going to be meal time since I would have to stock two diners in the same train. It cost me enough to do the chair cars, sleepers, and dome. I am just putting off doing the shades in the hi levels because of the chair cars. That is going to be and uber pain in the rear. I know once I get to doing it I will have a blast though.
BTW Chief, If you need any more of the AMB glazing for replacing the IM glazing in the hi levels, let me know. I have a lot of extra sets and don't want to fool with trying to sell them. I saw you did the diner already so you probably did the rest of your cars, but I put the offer out just in case.
Smitty,
My current concern with "easy peasy" is the length and brightness. The Hi-Levels are unique with full length lighting on the top section, but easy peasy is intended for a single level car with restrooms and vestibules, not all seating. And some reviews suggest they could be brighter. Sort of a negative when compared to this excellent night shot of the El-Cap at Barstow:
Note the intense and full lighting in the dorm (baggage section), diner, lounge, and sleepy time in the dark coaches. But "easy peasy" installation is a big plus factor. So I'm still debating what option to choose.
I'll keep you all posted with what method I eventually go with.
I posted these over in the weekend photo fun, but figured some might like to see these (if they missed them) interior closeups of my finished Hi-Level diner...although not finished since I want to add lighting now.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Well I went ahead and ordered the IHC combine, along with the trans top. I had a lot of other little items and detail parts that I had been meaning to get so I went ahead and ordered the car too. I think I'll take photos as I go along with this project and post them here. Sort of a quick and dirty how to make a temporary car.
But in the mean time I'm seriously considering lighting my Hi-Levels via track power. A simple flicker free lighting unit is in the works, and I already have some surface mount super bright white LEDs. I'll have to get or make some axel wipers for the trucks. But the biggest problem is trying to figure out what size screws come with TSP trucks? They are pretty big. Normally the light wires are connected to the truck screw. But the TSP screws, apart from being wood screws, not machine, are kind of short and do not go through the frame all the way. I've been considering changing to longer machine screws with a washer and nut to hold it against the frame. But I just can't figure out the size of the TSP screws. Might be a 5-40, but I'm not sure.
I built up a 6 car train of IHC streamliners painted for the B&M. I went with body mount Kadee #5 couplers. A couple of bits of strip styrene to shim the coupler boxes flat and a #2 self tapping screw to secure the coupler box in place. The resulting train could handle 18" snap track curves. Another way to go is McHenry, they make a long long shank coupler that will clip into the IHC truck mount.
I mail ordered interiors and metal wheels from IHC. For weight I used sheet lead roof flashing, cut to size and laid down under the floor of the interior.
The Coach Yard makes the type of trucks that the 3482 rode on but, they are expensive, 45.00 for a set.
Thanks Smitty. I didn't even think about the A-Line weights. Yeah those should work perfectly. I agree, Palace interiors are nice, and Red Cap are the best. But like you said, not sure if I want to sink anything into a temp car. But I suppose an interior could be used over again in a better car. So might be worth it to get a good interior now.
As for the trucks, do you or anyone else know if TSP makes trucks like the ones found under the real 3482? (see the photos I've posted in this thread) They look like standard GSC leaf spring trucks with Timken bearings. But I'm not sure what the technical name is.
I have Kadee, TSP, and Intermountain wheels. The Intermountain, at least I think they are Intermountain work the best. They are silver color, 36", and fairly heavy. They came on the Intermountain ready to run Hi-Levels...so not sure if Intermountain or maybe NWSL. TSP wheels (brass) are pretty good too. Kadee are light but do look great when the tread is polished. And yes TSP trucks must be tuned for the Kadees to track well.
I am with the TSP trucks all the way!! That is all I use. I should have mentioned them before. Nice, ain't they. If you use Kadee wheels, you will have to use a truck tuner on them. I don't know how the Intermountain wheels work with the TSP trucks. On my next project, I am going to use the IM wheels, so I will find out then.
Anyhow, have you considered the Palace Car Company interiors? That is who TSP and Intermountain use for the hi level interiors. They are simple and relatively inexpensive interiors. You may want to try Red Cap, but it sounds like you are going to use this as an "interim" car until something better comes along, so I don't know how much time and money you want to sink into it.
I would ditch the Athearn weights and go with the weights like A-Line sells (the ones with the two sided tape). They don't take up a lot of room, and install quick. Below are examples of how I hid them in a Palm and Regal sleeper...
Yet another question
On a whim I converted the trucks on the AHM observation with some extra Train Station Products outside swing hangers I had. What a difference. Wow the car tracks great. I also added some Athearn style weights. Helped a lot too. But they take up too much room.
So if I do go with the IHC car I'm definitely going with my TSP trucks. But I'm wondering about weights. Has anyone seen these weights made for IHC cars?
IHC Weights
UPDATE:
Before I go and waste money on my proposed IHC conversion, I wanted to run a test of an old Rivarossi "Blue Goose" observation I had sitting around to see if it made my curves.
The trucks are pretty junky. I replaced the plastic wheels with 36" metal Intermountain wheels. Big improvement. The brake shoes had to come off, but who really cares. The talgo horn hook coupler gave me the most issues. I had to dig though my coupler box to see if I had any horn hooks so I could run this stupid car. Found one and used an idler car with a Kadee on one end and horn hook on the other just so I could run the car. After several times around I saw no radius problems or derailment issues what so ever, even without adding much needed weight.
I'm guessing my curves are closer to 23" at the tightest spot. There isn't much overhang (but there is some) from these 85' cars like I've seen on 18".
Are IHC trucks the same as Rivarossi (actually AHM...what my box says)? I didn't notice any wobble that I've seen reported on IHC cars.
Also, avoid reaming the trucks with the "tool". It ate through one end. The trucks were fine without the reaming. Now I wonder if I screwed things up by using the "tool" on such thin trucks.
The Santa Fe "El Cap" dorms were not that unique a car, as Don pointed out. All Santa Fe did was take existing baggage/dorm/coaches and converted them to straight baggage dorms. The Hi-Level adapter and radio antenna were the biggest external changes, sans a few windows blocked out.
Here's a photo of 3482 before any "Hi-Level" modifications:
And the IHC model again:
Not a perfect match by any means, but the closest I've seen in plastic HO models so far. Interestingly, the number IHC uses, 1380, is from a Budd Baggage/Dorm/Lounge dating to 1937. Not only is the IHC roof not a Budd roof, but 1380 also carried a name in the center name board (1380 = San Miguel). They molded the two side number boards where 1380 should go, and the center where San Miguel should go...IHC for you. The window arrangement is pretty bad when compared to the real 1380. I think 3482 would have been a better # choice given the smooth Pullman style roof.
Here's a folio of the real Santa Fe 1380 (San Miguel)...Way to go IHC :