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Rare TYCO Brass???

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Rare TYCO Brass???
Posted by loathar on Friday, September 14, 2007 12:20 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Brass-HO-Scale-Train-by-Tyco_W0QQitemZ190151669167QQihZ009QQcategoryZ78178QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Is this true? I'm not aware of Tyco making any brass locos. Or is this just another case of a seller that's going to plead ignorance after the buyer complains?
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Posted by secondhandmodeler on Friday, September 14, 2007 12:23 PM

I like the aerial shot of the item.  I wonder if he hit his head on the ceiling fan when he shot this picture.

Corey
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Posted by PA&ERR on Friday, September 14, 2007 12:31 PM

Rare... TYCO... Brass...

Laugh [(-D]    Laugh [(-D]    Laugh [(-D]

George

"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."

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Posted by loathar on Friday, September 14, 2007 1:05 PM
I guess that's 2 votes for no? $50 for a Mantua 4-8-2 Mountains not too bad if it was built right. What's he referring to? The brass tender wheels??Confused [%-)] I love the $40 shipping charges for a 2-3 pound loco too.
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Posted by CAZEPHYR on Friday, September 14, 2007 1:19 PM

 loathar wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Brass-HO-Scale-Train-by-Tyco_W0QQitemZ190151669167QQihZ009QQcategoryZ78178QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Is this true? I'm not aware of Tyco making any brass locos. Or is this just another case of a seller that's going to plead ignorance after the buyer complains?

 

You have to be kidding??????????????

 

I like the some assembly required statement.  This item is from the 1960 era and is still awaiting assembly??   Must have been a real jewel!!!   I believe the old Tyco's all had brass wheels to ensure the model would not make electrical contact with brass rails and not run after a week or so.   

If this was imported as a Brass model, it was probably cast brass with all the wonderful detail that the normal Tyco normally ommitted.

Cheers

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Posted by UP2CSX on Friday, September 14, 2007 1:25 PM
Looks like the seller is a female and she doesn't have much experience selling trains. That being said, this is a prime example of an e-bay ripoff. We all know that Tyco never made brass engines, especially in kit form, which the seller claims this to be. The $40.15 shipping is theft, plain and simple. Even if I wanted this engine, I'd never pay such an outrageous shipping charge.
Regards, Jim
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Posted by cacole on Friday, September 14, 2007 1:49 PM
I think Tyco made white pot metal boilers, frames, and tender floors back in the early 1960's, and that's probably what this one is.  Certainly not brass, except for the tender wheels.
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Posted by loathar on Friday, September 14, 2007 2:07 PM

 cacole wrote:
I think Tyco made white pot metal boilers, frames, and tender floors back in the early 1960's, and that's probably what this one is.  Certainly not brass, except for the tender wheels.

Correct. I knew they made those. I beleive they were actually all made by Mantua. They are not that bad if you can get them for $30-$40. (and not pay $40 S&H!Shock [:O]) There's quite a few of these un-built kits on E-Bay every week.

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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Friday, September 14, 2007 2:43 PM

I cannot find any reference, in any of my Tyco or Mantua information (by no means comprehensive), of a 4-8-2 locomotive - brass or otherwise.    However, in my information about "Mantua Metals" I do find many brass locomotives and references to the switch from brass to zinc alloys (zamak) in post WWII production.  This would be starting in 1947 and getting progressively more zincish as time goes on.

I know that Atlas Tool Company (today Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.) either imported or produced some brass locomotives in the 1950s and possibly as late as 1964.  Something in the back of my mind has the name "Akaine" associated with this.<?> Any other old timers out there remember if that was the same or a different thing?  Anyway many vendors besides the commonly known ones like PFM, Keystone, and Sunset experimented with brass imports during this time period.  Post war Japanese labor was cheap. The bottom line is that I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Tyco tried this too.

What is keeping me from bidding just out of curiosity to find out what this is all about is the outrageous shipping charge!

 

 

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Posted by IRONROOSTER on Friday, September 14, 2007 3:30 PM

I like the C10 mint condition rating. 

From the miserable picture it appears this unit has a very poor/damaged paint job or some heavy duty corresion or both.

Enjoy

Paul 

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
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Posted by SteamFreak on Friday, September 14, 2007 3:43 PM

I don't think the seller has any idea what he or she is selling. It looks like they got a brass loco with Tyco instructions, and through exhaustive research came to the conclusion that it's a brass Tyco. Dunce [D)]

You can see the universal plastic cab Mantua used in the illustration. $50 is a good price for brass, but who knows what the condition really is. Why do so many buyers take blurry photos from 20 feet away?

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Posted by Gandy Dancer on Friday, September 14, 2007 3:47 PM
 SteamFreak wrote:
I don't think the seller has any idea what he or she is selling. It looks like they got a brass loco with Tyco instructions, and through exhaustive research came to the conclusion that it's a brass Tyco.
It is a very Mantua looking Tender.  Seems to be just like the ones they use on the 2-8-2 and 4-6-2s.
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Posted by Cox 47 on Friday, September 14, 2007 3:54 PM
If I remeber right Mantua did have a Brass engine back in early 50's it was a small engine maybe 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 and i think it was a eastern road maybe B&M but the Ebay engine is not Brass....Cox 47
ILLinois and Southern...Serving the Coal belt of southern Illinois with a Smile...
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Posted by gmcrail on Friday, September 14, 2007 4:11 PM

 Cox 47 wrote:
If I remeber right Mantua did have a Brass engine back in early 50's it was a small engine maybe 2-6-0 or 4-6-0 and i think it was a eastern road maybe B&M but the Ebay engine is not Brass....Cox 47

 

Mantua did indeed make two brass locos in the late 40s and early 50s.  A nice little 4-4-0 they called "Belle of the Eighties", and a 2-6-0 they nnamed the "8-Ball Mogul."  They both shared the same basic boiler.  There was a neat article in MR back in the mid-Fifties on detailing the 4-4-0.

 Far as I know, those were the only brass locos they made.  Never as large a locomotive as is on the eBay auction.  And Tyco NEVER made brass.  The loco may be an old Varney.  Varney made some large, cast brass steam, including, I believe, a Consolidation, a Mike, a Mountain and a Northern.   Their large tenders looked a lot like the later Mantua die-cast ones. 

 

---

Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com

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Posted by SteamFreak on Friday, September 14, 2007 4:18 PM
 gmcrail wrote:

Mantua did indeed make two brass locos in the late 40s and early 50s.  A nice little 4-4-0 they called "Belle of the Eighties", and a 2-6-0 they nnamed the "8-Ball Mogul."  They both shared the same basic boiler.  There was a neat article in MR back in the mid-Fifties on detailing the 4-4-0.

Far as I know, those were the only brass locos they made.  Never as large a locomotive as is on the eBay auction.  And Tyco NEVER made brass.  The loco may be an old Varney.  Varney made some large, cast brass steam, including, I believe, a Consolidation, a Mike, a Mountain and a Northern.   Their large tenders looked a lot like the later Mantua die-cast ones. 

Here's the Mantua literature page from HOSeeker, which shows everything from the early 50's to the present day Mantua Classics. There was never any large brass produced, and certainly no brass under the Tyco name.

http://www.hoseeker.net/mantuainstructions.html
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Posted by loathar on Friday, September 14, 2007 4:44 PM
I wonder if they mixed up 2-8-4 and 4-8-2? It's definitely longer than a Mikado.
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Friday, September 14, 2007 7:20 PM

 Gandy Dancer wrote:

--snip--

Atlas Tool Company (today Atlas Model Railroad Co., Inc.) either imported or produced some brass locomotives in the 1950s and possibly as late as 1964.  Something in the back of my mind has the name "Akaine" associated with this.<?> Any other old timers out there remember if that was the same or a different thing?

I'm not sure who the US importer was, but "Akane" was the brainchild of a single Japanese modeler who decided that there was a niche for brass USRA locomotives and set out to produce them.  They were of excellent quality (I have fond memories of a 2-6-6-2 Mallet that I sold to a Chessie fan when I decided to go to Japanese prototype.)  IIRC, Akane found itself acting as a training ground for workers who were then snapped up by the Japanese electronic industry.  I don't know what eventually happened to the company.

What is keeping me from bidding just out of curiosity to find out what this is all about is the outrageous shipping charge!

Agree!!  The shipping charge is almost certainly more than the original LHS price of a pristine kit.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by Soo Line fan on Friday, September 14, 2007 7:56 PM

Why are you guys ridiculing this poor ebayer? Laugh [(-D]

"This is a rare HO scale train piece made by Tyco. Made in the 1960's this piece is now a rare collectible, and can be yours (for a price of course)."

If it was made in the 60s then it must be a rare "piece". We all know that.Dead [xx(]

But wait theirs more!

" Included a brass Missouri Pacific Line Mountain 4-8-2 Locomotive. There are also blue prints and some assembly is required."

Those blue prints are a valuable addition; as I am still looking for blue prints to go with my engines. Here they are included! And people want to know why its called idiotbay.

We need to get her together with the 1.2K Athearn BB engine guy.

Jim

Jim

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Posted by river_eagle on Friday, September 14, 2007 7:58 PM

I'm just wondering, how many, if any, of you bothered to ask the seller for more information?,

a more detailed description?,

a clearer, close-up picture of the loco and/or the paperwork?,

or the reason for the high shipping fee with included insurance?,

before passing judgement on the seller as a crook, or as to the quality, condition, and identification, of what is being offered for sale.

 

Ashamed [*^_^*]

doesn't that just make you proud.

Anybody?.....Nobody?.... Bueller?.....Bueller?....Bueller?

Sigh [sigh]

When in doubt, rule #1 applies  Central Missouri Railroad Association cmrraclub.com
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Posted by don7 on Friday, September 14, 2007 8:23 PM
I checked out the e-bay add on E_Bay Canada and the S&H charges are 18.95 US, a bit high but not outrageous as some are saying. I notice on e-bay quite often the S&H charges are in error.
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Posted by loathar on Friday, September 14, 2007 8:55 PM
River-Eagle- I sent the seller an E-Mail asking for more details before I started this thread this mourning. I asked how they knew it was a brass Tyco since none where made let alone with that wheel configuration. No responce yet.Whistling [:-^]
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Posted by SteamFreak on Friday, September 14, 2007 9:51 PM

 loathar wrote:
River-Eagle- I sent the seller an E-Mail asking for more details before I started this thread this mourning. I asked how they knew it was a brass Tyco since none where made let alone with that wheel configuration. No responce yet.Whistling [:-^]

I sent her a message after reading this advising her to relist it with clear, closeup photos of the entire loco, including the underside so that any manufacturers name will be visible. No response either. I guess she figures we're trying to cheat her out of her rare Tyco.  

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Posted by loathar on Friday, September 14, 2007 10:06 PM
She also has a bunch of "RARE" Aurora model kits for sale. (look pretty cheap and old) $40 shipping on each of those too.Sigh [sigh]
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Posted by river_eagle on Friday, September 14, 2007 10:39 PM

somethings gone wrong with shipping calculator!!!

from Dover, DE

to NYC ZIP 10001 $14.25

ST LOUIS ZIP 63101 $40.15

CALIFORNIA ZIP 92328 $69.10

insc included priority mail, the price difference east coast vs west coast, should be only a dollar or so

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Posted by Darth Santa Fe on Friday, September 14, 2007 11:06 PM
I wonder if it's a brass BOWSER 4-8-2 that got mixed up with a Tyco tender? It does look an awful lot like Bowser's model to me, and I believe they were sold with the tender separate from the engine. I wonder if the seller ever looked at the "blueprints" to make sure they went with the model?

_________________________________________________________________

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Posted by jimrice4449 on Friday, September 14, 2007 11:24 PM
Assuming honest ignorance on the part of the seller, I'd go W/ Darth Santa Fe's guess.   Bowser did maKE A BRONZE (NOT BRASS) 4-8-2 that was sold w/o tender.   It was a sand casting and closer to 1/8" scale than HO.   Immedietly post WWII Mantua (Tyco predessor) had, in addition to the Mogul and Belle of the 80s, brass (boiler & cab) and zamac (chasis, tender etc.)kits for a Reading 4-6-2 and camelback 0-4-0 but no Mountain.
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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:54 AM
Funny how a model described as "mint" appears to have neither rods nor trailing truck. I reckon she's trying it on.
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Posted by marknewton on Saturday, September 15, 2007 7:02 AM
 river_eagle wrote:

I'm just wondering, how many, if any, of you bothered to ask the seller for more information?,

a more detailed description?,

a clearer, close-up picture of the loco and/or the paperwork?,

or the reason for the high shipping fee with included insurance?,

before passing judgement on the seller as a crook, or as to the quality, condition, and identification, of what is being offered for sale.


Anyone who advertises items like this, and decribes it with arrant nonsense like "rare" and "collectible", deserves to cop a flogging!

The expression "caveat emptor" is very popular for a reason...

Cheers,

Mark.
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Posted by ndbprr on Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:13 AM
When I was very young right after WW2 I can remember drooling on a store window every chance I got to look at the Mantua brass kit engines and believe me they were kits!  I don't think the average guy could have assembled one of those things they were so crude but it was the state of the art.  At the most they were six wheeled engines and the ones I remember were all little four wheel engines like a saddle tank and a mother hubbard.  As I recall the first 8 wheel drive engine introduced was the American Flyer one followed by Varney and Tyco but that was the latter half of the 50's.
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Posted by richg1998 on Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:12 AM

I sent an eMail also stating that some people were discussing this engine. No response yet.

I downloaded and enhanced the photo and it looks like there are driver rods. Trying to sharpen the photo starts to cause some distortion. Not 100% sure though.

I know some people who sell on eBay and many sellers use terms that may not b e correct but will show up in an eBay search. A example I have seen more than once, a steam engine is "engine train car or "engine train tender coal car". Throw in "rare" or some other term. 

Rich 

If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.

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