doc manago wrote:I want a KATO company more active in the HO field, with more diesel and specially STEAM locos, DCC & sound factory equipped. They have the "know how", and their models are in the best range at the market: so, WHEN??? What do you think?. Thanks.
When???
When a WHOLE BUNCH of Japanese model railroaders let the Kato management know that they want the same things.
As American model railroaders, we tend to forget that Kato is a Japanese company, catering mainly to the wants of their Japanese customer base. In this day and age, that means N scale models of Japanese prototype multiple unit passenger equipment.
We also tend to forget that Kato is not Toyota. They are a small, niche company that hardly rates a wiggle on the seismograph of Japanese commerce. Their resources are finite, limited and not likely to be expended on filling the desires of a few modelers on the far side of a rather wide ocean.
Let Kato USA know about your wishes and concerns, by all means. Just don't expect a lightning-fast reaction - or any reaction at all.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
You'll probably have to take this up with KATO, because I don't think there's much we can really do about it here.
People have complained on this forum off and on for a while now about the lack of production of HO stuff from KATO. They seem to cater more to N-scale, and I believe in Japan, most people use N-scale... not sure if that has anything to do with it. They either don't have the means, or the desire to do more HO stuff. Maybe they've decided the return on investment isn't enough for them, or maybe they think the competition is too stiff.
I don't have much experience with Kato locomotives, but lots of people rave about them (their mechanisms, at least). I only own a single SD70MAC, which I haven't run that much, so I can't really speak to the running ability compared to my P2K locomotives, which are more detailed and seem to run just as well.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor
Thier N scale line is pretty hefty. Especially the track.
Some of thier switch controls etc are pricey and can be replaced with a single DS64 throwing 4 of them and a spool of wire.
Every time they toss something onto the USA, people stampede. So.. I think they are doing ok.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
this comes up about once a year from either the HO or the N crowd, as Kato's focus seems to switch one way or the other about every 18 months or so.
Recent HO offerings include
SD38, 40, 70, 80, 90
AC 4400
F40
commuter, superliner, MHC, and hopper cars
recent N
SD 40 70, 80, 90
AC4400
NW2
stack cars, several passenger consists
reruns of f units, P42s amd the mike
new daylight, and broadway with locos
during the time that the HO items were arriving there was basicly nothing for N, now it's the other way around.
there will probally always be more Kato N products than HO, but that the nature of Kato's world market.
I just wish that they'd come out with more options in HO Unitrack. Even just, for goodness sake, replicate some of the crossovers and bridges and stuff they off in N.
I guess you have to go over to Japan and "make them an offer they can't refuse". I hear their owner does like horses...
doc manago wrote:I want a KATO company more active in the HO field, with more diesel and specially STEAM locos...What do you think?.
marknewton wrote: doc manago wrote:I want a KATO company more active in the HO field, with more diesel and specially STEAM locos...What do you think?.You want more Kato HO steam? They already make a C56 2-6-0 and a C11 2-6-4T, and have just announced a model of the preserved D51 498 - what more do you want?
An E10 2-10-4T
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - needs a beefy pusher)
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
riogrande5761 wrote:The reason is KATO's biggest market is in Japan and European countries where space is much more limited than in the US - therefore N scale is the model scale of choice.
that may be true for Japan, but it's certainly not the case for Europe. HO is most certainly the most popular scale in Europe, go to any hobby shop in Europe and you will find it packed with HO stuff while there usualy is only a small section (no pun) reserved for N. the only exception being the British with their OO scale.
The reasson Kato is mainly focusing on N, IMO is that they are really well know for their N products, and have build quite a name among N modelers, which simply isn't the case for HO. not to mention the fact that the HO market is seriously crowded in comparison to N so that means they have to compete against a few well established HO manufacturers like Atlas, Athearn and Walthers/Life Like among others. I personaly have never bought a Kato unit, mainly because I find their units pricey, while they aren't any more detailed then the top of the line Proto units...which in most cases are a bit cheaper and run verry well.
anyway, just my .02$
GE,
I don't actually know what KATO's sales figures are in Europe and I'd imagine Japan and the orient are their biggest market. I was only guessing from my four extensive trips to Europe and observations about limited space that N would be popular there where there isn't much room for a layout. I'm sure Japan is much more restrictive than Europe tho.
Riogrande,
I hope I didn't offended anyone, as that was not my intention, I just wanted to throw in my own experience, as I'm an European myself. and you are right, space is usualy a bit more tight around here but we still have enough room to make a small to midsize HO layout (I'm building a midsize layout myself). for Japan tough...you could be right I've never been really interested in Japanese railroading. I did notice however that they, just like the british, have a slightly different gauge then HO there, I believe it was 1:80, which is obviously due to the fact that most japanese railroads are narrow gauge.
No worries. While I was in Germany - the place I spent the most time visiting friends and traveling - I saw an HO layout someone had built in an upstairs attic. It a fairly decent size. I'm thinking more Japanese live in small dwelllings and appartments so N would be much better for those high population density areas. I do recall how narrow streets were in Germany and other surrounding countries, how cars are much smaller as a rule (gas prices I'm sure!) and yes, dwellings too.
I'm pretty amazed at the amount of space that Electrolove is able to dedicate but Sweden may be a little more like the US in terms of space.
I am one of very few in my area into Kato HO. That is probably why I am active in sharing my experiences with these tracks so that maybe Kato will see the revenue in expanding the HO line to at least the same as the N scale... but not any time soon.
I have gone on very much about the switches from Kato, the only unknown is the life of these motors. That is why I chose the DS 64 because I have burned out some coil machines as a kid by standing on those itty bitty slide switches too long with the Atlas units.
O scales you can throw them all your life time and they never fail. Unless you leave a light on those and run a constant current through them.
BRAKIE wrote:Its common knowledge that Kato could do much better in the HO field but,for unknown reasons choose not to !!...
tomikawaTT wrote: marknewton wrote: doc manago wrote:I want a KATO company more active in the HO field, with more diesel and specially STEAM locos...What do you think?.You want more Kato HO steam? They already make a C56 2-6-0 and a C11 2-6-4T, and have just announced a model of the preserved D51 498 - what more do you want? An E10 2-10-4T Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - needs a beefy pusher)
When KATO came to the USA market, ending the ´80, it was a revolution. A that time, Athearn was a king, but after KATO, every manufacturer knew (and learned?) what was to make an excellent model, with superb slow motion and extreme quietness, never seen before in the plastic range. I have RS-3s ATLAS/KATO from 1990, and they run as the first day without almost any care (only some oil in the axles form time to time). If some time KATO choiced the USA market for their HO products, any reason should had! Why hasn´t any incentive today? Evey model was a success, and, for example, USA steamer with DCC&sound factory installed should be a best seller. Bye
mark newton wrote: BRAKIE wrote:Its common knowledge that Kato could do much better in the HO field but,for unknown reasons choose not to !!...There's nothing "unknown" about the reason Kato concentrates on N, it's quite simple. The Japanese domestic market is where they make most of their sales, and the dominant scale in Japan is N. Their HO range of non-Japanese models is no more than a sideline, and always will be. You might think that US prototype HO modelling is the centre of the universe - but it ain't! Cheers,Mark.
Mark,I just don't buy into that lame excuse..Kato has supplied drives for several manufacturers over the years so,they have a handle on the HO market.I firmly believe Kato could be come a top hitter if they entered the HO market full time.They have a loyal customer base-just say something bad about Kato on any forum and watch the fur fly.
Cheers!
Of the over 200 diesels on or around my layout, a goodly number are Kato. I still believe that of all the various manufacturers, the Kato chassis (barring the old SD40-2) is about the best and smoothest running. So I would like to see more Kato in HO. They may not be the best detailed of some, but give me a smooth chassis and I can add the eye candy.
Currently have one each of the new SD40-2's in Santa Fe on order. I would gladly trade about all of the P2K I have in for Kato.
Bob
The xenophobic turn this thread has taken is regretable. No wonder people talk about the "ugly American".
Look, I model in HO, too, but you guys come off like a bunch of spoiled whiners. We have many more sources of engines and stuff in HO than in N scale ... and you guys have nothing better to do than complain about the _one_ supplier who does a little more for N scale? Get a grip.
I am disappointed in some of the posts here.
If I was to ever consider N scale, Kato has already done all the necessary work to make it painless. They are adequate in HO scale and equiptment/models is quality when they do release it.
Easy does it.
While bashing Kato for having presumed "Japanese business characteristics" is so clearly wrong, it's undeniable that Kato is not Toyota, in either scale or business sense. It's a small, closely held company, so I guess that there's a limit on what to expect.
I think they've done a lot of interesting things; hey, I'm a Unitrack and Kato loco fan. But it's also undeniable that when it comes to communication, Kato (or at least their US office) is either thick as a brick, or there is definite cultural divide. I think they do little in the way of customer engagement, support or listening. How much bigger would Unitrack be if they had something approaching the communications and instructional support of, say, Atlas? I love their web site that proclaims in places "New in 2005!" What does it take to update what is a pretty basic website? Good communicators they are not. Luckily however, good engineers they are. It's simply an engineering-led business that could grow a lot with some more effective marketing.
Hey, maybe I grumble because I think the track line is really good and I just wish they offered some more HO options or looked like they intended to at some time. So I'm admittedly a grump on the subject. Maybe someone can educate me on this, but if you have the basic engineering done for a N scale track crossover, for example, is it much more expensive to replicate it in HO?
The locos are first rate. I have no quarrel for them on locos, because unlike with Unitrack where you more or less commit to their line of products, with locos any contribution from Kato is a welcome addition and augment to a wide field of other options. I think their locos are excellent value for the money.
I walked into a hobby shop today on way home from work. There on the counter in front of the N scale area is a complete Kato N scale track planning template for use in graph paper. It includes all (That I could see) of the Kato N track segments.
I have been working on my wye which has grown to become a Junction. I managed to solve the 90 degree crossing problem by thinking in terms of degrees of curvature instead of radius. Two kato 22.5 degree sections = 45 degrees. Two sections of 45 degree curved track more = 90 degrees.
But alas, Im in HO which means the Kato bridges are not availible. No problem. I plan the Atlas Bridge with flex track and cork. I will have to engineer a solution to keep everything "Level" at the railhead but then again.. I love to solve problems.
Anyone can run a railroad up a mountain, but cannot come back down without a bridge. LOL.
Of course, if Kato woke up out of thier slumber and issued HO scale bridges, dropping one into the trackplan is... well... cheating aint it?
alco_fan wrote: The xenophobic turn this thread has taken is regretable. No wonder people talk about the "ugly American".Look, I model in HO, too, but you guys come off like a bunch of spoiled whiners. We have many more sources of engines and stuff in HO than in N scale ... and you guys have nothing better to do than complain about the _one_ supplier who does a little more for N scale? Get a grip.
I went back over the posts before yours and found ONE that stepped over the line into non-model-railroad political opinion. I have no way of knowing whether that individual has the kind of up close, personal knowledge of Japanese culture that I acquired through years of living there, but it rather sounds like he was simply parroting some off-Forum propaganda sources.
If a realistic assessment of Kato's business model sounds xenophobic to you, well, maybe you should adjust your sensitivity meter.
As for calling either yours truly or Mark Newton xenophobic (or, especially, anti-Japanese,) that's rather like calling the Pope anti-Catholic!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - using data gathered on the spot, by the modeler)
tomikawaTT wrote: I went back over the posts before yours and found ONE that stepped over the line into non-model-railroad political opinion.
I went back over the posts before yours and found ONE that stepped over the line into non-model-railroad political opinion.
I found two, myself, but that one was certainly enough. There was also an earlier reference to sakuraniku that I thought was a bit heavy-handed and probably not made with benign intent.
The major point of my post was not the xenophobia, but the way we HO'ers (who enjoy most of the production of models in the hobby) throw an absolute hissy-fit when one company dares to serve another part of the industry more than it does HO. Comical, really, like an over-stuffed little boy who throws a fit because Mommy gives little sister the bigger slice of pie after dinner.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
alco-fan & R. T. POTEET,You both should know by now that people are people no matter what, and people like to complain. For example, you'd think that rich people would have less to complain about then poor people, right? Well, they complain just as much but about different things (just read the sports pages).
I've seen many an N-scaler complain about what's offered in HO-scale, just like on this thread one can see HO-scalers complain about what's offered in N-scale. All groups whine and complain when they see something offered to another group that isn't offered to them. It's basic human nature. I don't see why the pair of you are taking only HO-scalers to task when every group does it. IOW, I hope you are this vigilant when the next N-scaler or O-scaler posts on a thread about how something in HO-scale isn't offered to them. I eagerly await your dual reprimands, comparisons to little boys' temper tantrums and the sarcastic bile of "Boo-Hoo-Hoo!!!!"
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Actually the wee scale-I can say that because I also model in N Scale-has come a long way over the years.I don't think anybody is bellyaching as much as you think..I suspect most HO modelers wonder why Kato doesn't do better in the HO field.