TheK4Kid wrote:Maybe 5 years ago, I ordered some things online from IHC, and they took several months to "partialy" fill my order, when I got my partial order, the rest of it was on "back order", though they showed on their site that they had the items in stock.Then one day about 3 years later, I got a kit I ordered from them, but had forgot about it.The rest of my order on the new receipt was "still" on backorder.I haven't ever ordered anything from them since and never will again!They have absolutely the "WORST SERVICE" of any online hobby business I have ever dealt with!!!!
Maybe 5 years ago, I ordered some things online from IHC, and they took several months to "partialy" fill my order, when I got my partial order, the rest of it was on "back order", though they showed on their site that they had the items in stock.
Then one day about 3 years later, I got a kit I ordered from them, but had forgot about it.
The rest of my order on the new receipt was "still" on backorder.I haven't ever ordered anything from them since and never will again!
They have absolutely the "WORST SERVICE" of any online hobby business I have ever dealt with!!!!
K4, great example of how to make something with nothing! Looks like all that was made here was an upset, highly dissatisfied customer. Joe Daddy had the exact same issue with Internet Hobbies, only it took just 90 days to fill my order. Lesson learned!
Joe
BRAKIE wrote: Falls Valley RR wrote: Some of you proclaim speedy purchase and fast delivery of items are most important. I must be living in a slow part of the USA where I send in a order to the Hobby Shop and it might be a month or 6 before it arrives. But it usually arrives without errors and in good condition without additional hassle of paying shipping or tracking the product. It boils down to the on line shop(s) you use..The 3 that I use my order gets here in 4-5 days by UPS.There are some shops that takes 10 days just to process the order..Even Horizon and Atlas got my parts order to me in 5 days.Neither of the not so local hobby shops can do that.As a side note I usually order on Sundays so my order can be process Monday.
Falls Valley RR wrote: Some of you proclaim speedy purchase and fast delivery of items are most important. I must be living in a slow part of the USA where I send in a order to the Hobby Shop and it might be a month or 6 before it arrives. But it usually arrives without errors and in good condition without additional hassle of paying shipping or tracking the product.
Some of you proclaim speedy purchase and fast delivery of items are most important. I must be living in a slow part of the USA where I send in a order to the Hobby Shop and it might be a month or 6 before it arrives. But it usually arrives without errors and in good condition without additional hassle of paying shipping or tracking the product.
It boils down to the on line shop(s) you use..The 3 that I use my order gets here in 4-5 days by UPS.There are some shops that takes 10 days just to process the order..Even Horizon and Atlas got my parts order to me in 5 days.Neither of the not so local hobby shops can do that.
As a side note I usually order on Sundays so my order can be process Monday.
Most of my orders are advanced reservation items. Sometimes it took two years of waiting like it did for a PCM P7 class pacific. I canceled that one and use the funds towards a set of E units from Proto availible now or nearly so.
Everyday items like paints etc those are availible at either store or very soon after asking for it.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Ted Marshall wrote:For me, hobby shops are fun to visit, get ideas and advice and to kill time (when I have it). But to buy from, I don't think so. I'm sorry, but I have numerous reasons not to buy from the LHS which echoes those of others previously posted. First, I agree that there are certain items that buying them from the LHS makes perfect sense. Usually they're inexpensive items like paint, brushes, glue, etc. But when it comes to higher priced items like rolling stock, engines, DCC systems and the sort, I find that I can get them cheaper and faster from online stores. That's the bottom line. Cheaper because of lower overhead costs incurred by online vendors. Yes, some online vendors charge inflated shipping costs to compensate for the discounts they offer but a little research goes a long way. I have a short list of online vendors that I can choose from that I know will combine shipping on everything that I buy from them. When totaled, the final price is usually well below what the LHS would've charged me.Faster because my LHS doesn't carry many of the items that I like. In fact, they don't keep very much in stock at all anymore. An example of this is Atlas RTR Pressureaide Centerflow hoppers in my favorite roadnames, they simply don't carry them. They will however order them and mark up the price, of course. I can just as easily order it myself, can't I?LHS's are great for impulse buyers when they actually have something that you "just gotta have right now". But aside from that...Sorry. I really like TheK4Kid's idea however, 17 posts back. But, I'm not sure that would even be enough for an LHS to survive today's proliferation of maistream e-commerce.
For me, hobby shops are fun to visit, get ideas and advice and to kill time (when I have it). But to buy from, I don't think so. I'm sorry, but I have numerous reasons not to buy from the LHS which echoes those of others previously posted.
First, I agree that there are certain items that buying them from the LHS makes perfect sense. Usually they're inexpensive items like paint, brushes, glue, etc. But when it comes to higher priced items like rolling stock, engines, DCC systems and the sort, I find that I can get them cheaper and faster from online stores. That's the bottom line.
Cheaper because of lower overhead costs incurred by online vendors. Yes, some online vendors charge inflated shipping costs to compensate for the discounts they offer but a little research goes a long way. I have a short list of online vendors that I can choose from that I know will combine shipping on everything that I buy from them. When totaled, the final price is usually well below what the LHS would've charged me.
Faster because my LHS doesn't carry many of the items that I like. In fact, they don't keep very much in stock at all anymore. An example of this is Atlas RTR Pressureaide Centerflow hoppers in my favorite roadnames, they simply don't carry them. They will however order them and mark up the price, of course. I can just as easily order it myself, can't I?
LHS's are great for impulse buyers when they actually have something that you "just gotta have right now". But aside from that...Sorry.
I really like TheK4Kid's idea however, 17 posts back. But, I'm not sure that would even be enough for an LHS to survive today's proliferation of maistream e-commerce.
Hi Ted,
Thanks for your support of my idea.We now have only ONE LHS in this area, well actually two, as one is quite small and trains only.Yet the larger LHS which has been here a long time, and even though the owner is a super nice guy, he is not a train guy.Much of his train stock is OLD, I mean at least 12 to 20 years old, and very little in newer train stock.Most of anything Walthers carries, you would have to special order from him.The same MR stock has been on his shelves and in display cases forever, and sometimes overpriced, even with a discount.He sells more than just trains,RC planes and cars, and it's become more like a toy store, every time he returns from some hobby expo, or show, he comes back with all sorts of knick-knack toys that are JUNK!!!This particular owner has offered to "sale his LHS to me, but it has so much old "junk stock" in it, and so many items that really aren't hobby related, I would be stuck with a lot I probably couldn't market even at COST! And he continues to borrow money to keep his doors open. Anything I might want like Walthers turntable, or Atlas track, or Walthers ready to run freight or passenger cars, I would have to order, and it usually takes longer than if I get it online.Sadly, andother LHS, Hobbyland, which still has a website, closed, and the store manager wasa GREAT GUY to deal with, he often had special sales, in-store specials, and sometimes even BEAT online prices! I purchased my Walthers 130 foot HO turntable from him BELOW the BEST PRICE I saw online! I purchased a lot of my HO rolling stock from him, as he always had "new stock" on the shelves every time I went in to his store.Sometimes, he'd see me looking at an item, and would approach me, and tell me he could give me a "better price" on it, and I never had to "barter" with him.9 out of 10 times he BEAT or MATCHED online prices, and even after state sales tax, I was often within pennies of what I would have paid online, and I had it right then and there, no waiting etc.
When I go in the now existing LHS, I hardly ever see any new stock of any kind.Though he does well in RC cars and helicopters and some RC airplanes.The sad thing is I would like to continue to support him, but it's a 20 mile drive into town for me, and he hardly ever has anything new on his shelves.I can stay home, save gas, save time, and order online, and get most of what I want not only quicker than ordering through the LHS, but most of the time at less cost.I see the problem with this LHS as being mismanaged in a time of a changing enviroment. I used to be an over-the-road truck driver and I often visited hobby shops in distant cities, and have seen some really great shops, and kind of took ideas from all of the best of them, and had great conversations with the owners and sales folk in many of them.I usually always bought something in every one of them.As a result I now have all kinds of items on my workshop shelves to choose from to put on my layout I am building, actually more than I'll probably need, but each item has a story behind it.But I think my idea for a LHS might just succeed which I spoke of earlier in this thread.I feel that in order to survive, a LHS has to care about it's customers, offer good service, have friendly and knowledged sales personell, and be able to adapt and change with a changing business world.I don't feel that online hobby dealers will do LHS's in, but a well managed LHS will survive in a "brick and mortar store".
The internet is not going to kill all LHSs, just the weaker shops that will not adjust a little.
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As I have stated in the past I will not pay full price when I can it the items I need cheaper.Now IF a hobby shop wants my hobby dollars he must have a discount-even 10-12% would make me a customer after all I still like to deal with a "live" person far more then a cold computer screen.
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I will not sell on the internet. I'm a "small" one person shop. I do one thing and try to do it well, and that is to have a good local shop. You can't serve two masters. I can't devote the time to keeping my brick-and-mortar shop in decent shape if I am also selling on the net. And these idiots selling new products on the net from a "real" shop for slightly over cost are shooting themselves in the head in the long run.
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I fail to understand your logic..They paid for their stock and its theirs to do as they will..When I was a part time train show dealer my price was 10-15% above costs and I still made money.
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I also applaud the distributors who will not sell to basement operators.
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Its a hungry world out there.The smart ones make money by selling to "basement operators"..After all we pay with cash and not credit
And when I find out that a distributor IS selling to a basement operator, then they get no more business from me.
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To bad..I guess there's no room for small operators in your business world.That's sad as we need both.After all some may be supplementing their retirement incomes.
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About a year or so ago, a distributor made a mistake. They sent my box to another account. They sent me the other account's invoice.
I noted on the invoice that this guy was receiving a better wholesale discount than me...kinda ticked me off a little. But when my box arrived and the other account's address came from a UPS residential zone....well that was it for that distributor. I was doing 20 - 25,000 dollars a year with them. (I know, in the greater scheme of things, that's not much business.)
So this guy is selling out of his basement and he gets a better discount than me???
We both know if you pay cash you get a better discount..We both know the "deals" that can made by buying by the case lot if one has the cold cash for such"deals".Is it fair? I don't think so because that puts the smaller hobby shops and "basement operators" at a disadvantage with the bigger dealers that has thousands of dollars to spend on a weekly bases.
Think of it like this..Where a small operator may order a case or two the bigger operators may order 10 or 12 cases..Guess who the distributor is favoring with a better discount?
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There's some hobby shop rage from the other side of the counter.
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When I use to go hobby shop hopping I knew several of the owners.Many knew I was a basement operator and train show dealer..Still we would talk openly about the hobby shop business and how one can not get rich owning a shop that deals with peoples free time and hobby dollars.
Dustin wrote:Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there.
Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there.
Competition is fine, but only when there's a level playing field.
Take a good, hard look at those ebay prices. The super discount prices are almost always for products from a handful of companies that sell directly to certain mail order places at far below standard wholesale pricing. Walthers, Horizon, Portman, Branchline, and the other distributors that sell the same lines generally offer the same (+/- a point or two) discount. This discount is based on the MSRP, which in the case of at least one manufacturer, is artificially inflated.
When you can find a locomotive with a $171 MSRP selling for less than $50 on a regular basis, there's no reasonable way a brick and mortar shop can compete. Also, take a look at how many spots are offering these prices, which have been saved in many a favorite's list. There's only one or two for each manufacturer. How is this "competition"?
I'm not against online business, especially hobby shops. Online shopping opens up the entire world for products that may not be available at all to the consumer locally. But online shopping can't replace the hobby shop completely. Maintaining the status quo has gotten a negative connotation over the years, but for the hobby industry, there's good reason not to destroy the business model overnight just so a handful of newcomers can make a quick buck.
The way I do business with LHS's/online suppliers is the following, & I'm sure many do the same.
There are 4 LHS's within a 30 mile radius of me (to my knowledge). The closest one (in town here) is quite small & varied with hobby products. Their model train line has very little to choose from, virtually all stuff of the starter train set variety, & I don't even bother with them.
The 2nd is about 10 miles away, & I usually go to him for Poly Scale paint,Microsol/Microset/Solvaset (when he has them in stock). He has a few Walthers kits, but mostly Athearn BBs, some of which have been on his shelf for years. (He's a good fella to deal with, but his shop is in an affluent city, & gets most of his business with his Thomas line, which a lot of well off parents patronize-I can't blame him-go where the money is.)
The 3rd is about 30 miles away, & exclusively trains. Some kits Walthers/Athearn, but a treasure trove for detailing parts. (also has a model RR in the shop) Great fella to deal with-I was in need of a Red Caboose detail part this past winter, & when I went on the website to order, they had a $20 minimum order as I recall. The owner said, NP, he put it in for me from the shop. (still waiting though (grr) Red Caboose is spinning it's wheels as to getting more parts put out from what he told me on my last visit) But a good shop to deal with-also does DCC work, etc-just wished it wasn't so doggone far away.
The 4th is "ok"-model RR specializing (& a layout in the basement) but their selection is very "so-so". (kinda like the 2nd above)
So what I guess I'm trying to get at is this. If I can get it quicker & easier from an LHS, I'll do so. If not, I'll order online. I maybe getting a bit OT here, but just my 2 cents.
I used to spend more at my LHS, but like others I've found the prices were alot higher and on top of that I would have to order most of what I like because the stuff I like isn't normally stocked. I also sold alot of stuff on consignment and then bought stuff there with the profits. One day the owner said it wasn't worth his while to sell the consigned stuff and refused to do it anymore stating that I didn't buy enough stuff and apparently was mail ordering instead. My interpretation was he resented the fact that mail order was taking away business from him so he wasn't going to "help" me anymore. What he did was shoot himself in the foot because everything I consigned, sold. All the profits were spent at the shop. That may have not been huge amounts but it was something. At the time my income was low so I had to save where I could. Since then I my income has dramatically risen and so has my expenditures. I have learned to sell on Ebay so I my proceeds are higher from the sales than otherwise at the LHS.
Sure, its nice to be able to browse stuff on the shelf, but ultimately for me, the LHS looses its appeal when the prices are alot higher, things I like aren't regularly stocked, and the people you have to deal with often have attitudes which turn you away rather than encourage you to do business. Not all places are like that. The place I regularly deal with now for several years has a store front in another state, and has nice prices too. So it IS possible to have a brick and mortor store and offer nice prices.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there. Selling well-priced items in a volume is how large chains make their money. It may be worth it for the dealer to consider selling only one item that is set at a pricepoint that just covers cost and has marginal profit and be so competitively priced that everyone wants to buy it off of them. This then creates lots of revenue which can be used to offset lowering the cost of the other items in his store, thus causing those items to be attractively priced and increasing sales there as well.
You can sell anything for the right price. We just sold our condo in only 8 hours on the market. We needed a quick sale and so priced accordingly... it cost us about $15,000 to do this in lost profit, but the $30,000 that we ended up taking away paid the down payment on our current house which we wouldn't have gotten if we waited to sell at a higher price. The three other similar units for sale sold months after us because they wanted more $.
If I knew of a vendor that sold something very cheaply because he sold lots, then I'd buy it that way. If that vendor was the LHS, then I'd buy it from him.
So, in conclusion , I support both types of business. In this day and age just doing the status quo won't be enough. It takes some ingenuity to stay ahead of the competition and if it means using the internet then so be it. I challenge any hobby shop to do better, internet or otherwise. If you do what you've always done, then you will have what you've always had. If you do different, then you will have different (Dr. Phil!).
Just my 2 or 3 or 5 cents!
jktrains wrote: The internet only, eBay type sellers are what is killing the local hobby store with a physical location. It's even more of a threat than people who are train show only vendors. As a prior post said, the local hobby shop with a physical location has made a significant investment and put capital at risk. They have rent, utilities etc that must be paid that you won't incur creating an unfair advantage. Those people who continually post on this forum about how they will never pay 'retail' for anything because they can get it cheaper online are truly damaging this hobby and many hobbies in general. As a young teen I can remember planning the 'big' trip to the hobby store when I would ride my bike to the local shop. I spent my hard earned money on Athearn & MDC shake the box kits and other things like plastic models or model rockets and engines. Nowadays, kids can't do that. The brick and mortar stores are few and far between, having been slowly killed off by e-stores that don't have to pay the same fixed costs.
The internet only, eBay type sellers are what is killing the local hobby store with a physical location. It's even more of a threat than people who are train show only vendors. As a prior post said, the local hobby shop with a physical location has made a significant investment and put capital at risk. They have rent, utilities etc that must be paid that you won't incur creating an unfair advantage. Those people who continually post on this forum about how they will never pay 'retail' for anything because they can get it cheaper online are truly damaging this hobby and many hobbies in general. As a young teen I can remember planning the 'big' trip to the hobby store when I would ride my bike to the local shop. I spent my hard earned money on Athearn & MDC shake the box kits and other things like plastic models or model rockets and engines. Nowadays, kids can't do that. The brick and mortar stores are few and far between, having been slowly killed off by e-stores that don't have to pay the same fixed costs.
I do a lot of model railroad shopping by email, but price is not usually the issue. Instead I find that my LHS usually does not have that particular item that I'm looking for. There are only two hobby shops near where I live that specalize in model trains. And they mainly stock HO and O27 equipment, with a smattering of N scale, because that's where the market is. Usually what they have on the shelf is not what I'm looking for.
And yes, they will order it for me, but my experience has been that I can find it and get it from an Internet HS faster than they can get it from their supplier. Case in point, last summer I wanted to order an N-scale track cleaning car and asked my LHS to order it for me. After a month it still hadn't shown up. The clerk checking the (handwritten) order ticket consulted his microfiche and discovered the order had rejected because the specific road name I'd requested was out of stock. So we reordered it with an alternate roadname and after another 2 - 3 weeks it finally came. I do continue to patronize my LHS, for paint, glue, common tools, etc. But more often than not if I need something particular, it's out to the web for me.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
Ive seen Hobby Shops get grumpy but rage? Not yet.
Usually the thunder and lightning comes from the spouse, HOW MUCH FOR THAT TINY THING?!
I'll play the music to ease the pain of honey do jobs lol.
I used to work as a Cashier years ago and understand sometimes customers who come into the store with plans to be very difficult. No more cashiering for me. I remember the last time... Credit Card taken, 10 dollars please, do you have another credit card or cash?
Boy do they fly into a rage when 10 people waiting in line thinks this one is too poor to pay 10 dollars in gas.
on30francisco wrote: pilot wrote:I shop where I get what I want, when I want it, at the price I want. All venues are open to me. LHS, wholesaler, Ebay, train shows, any and all venues. I buy the "best" without any artificial rules about "who to support" where it is made or nonsense like that. Just find what I want, wherever it is, and buy it.RIGHT ON! As I stated in an earlier post "I feel that I am under no obligation to support a LHS or any other business that is incapable of supporting my needs."
pilot wrote:I shop where I get what I want, when I want it, at the price I want. All venues are open to me. LHS, wholesaler, Ebay, train shows, any and all venues. I buy the "best" without any artificial rules about "who to support" where it is made or nonsense like that. Just find what I want, wherever it is, and buy it.
RIGHT ON! As I stated in an earlier post "I feel that I am under no obligation to support a LHS or any other business that is incapable of supporting my needs."
The above best read with the Star Spangle Banner playing loudly on your iPod.
And no matter how outrageous the claim, nor how eloquent the plea, do I feel any sense of need to support some faceless, nameless, serviceless website. As for me, I consider my local hobby shops a destination; one worthy of my loyalty and business. Just because I can save 3 or 4% on the internet is not enough justification for me to miss seeing or experiencing the joy of visiting my local hobby shop. After all, line for line, item for item, my LHS is one of the most competitive sites on the web too.
But then, I live in Colorado, where we are blessed to see the Rocky Mountains to the west and live among such a large collection of superior hobby shops.
So to those who live in those other parts of the world. Where the only local hobby shop is some guy like you or me who is trying to make a living by providing a service and access to quality railroading supplies. Treat him like you will and by all means place your bid on eBay so you can complain when you get sniped.
As for me, if I happen to travel through your town, I'm going to stop at your LHS and take a look see, even visit with the guys. Seems I learn new stuff that way, and might even find a bargain there on the shelf. It is sad sometimes, when the lonely shop owner tells me that I am the only customer he has seen all day. There is always room for a little something in my bag, if I can get by the TSA!
just my 2 cents, certainly worth not a penny more!
One of the interesting things about the model railroading market is the way wholesaleing seems to work.
I had always thought that wholesale prices were given because the retailer bought a lot and the more he bought the better his wholesale price.
But apparently many distributors are willing to sell at wholesale prices in very small quantities. Then to "protect the LHS" they turn around and demand that the buyer be a certain type of retail operation.
Frankly, if a wholesaler is willing to deal in very small quantities then he should go retail.
Enjoy
Paul
One Track Mind wrote:The internet is not going to kill all LHSs, just the weaker shops that will not adjust a little.I will not sell on the internet. I'm a "small" one person shop. I do one thing and try to do it well, and that is to have a good local shop. You can't serve two masters. I can't devote the time to keeping my brick-and-mortar shop in decent shape if I am also selling on the net. And these idiots selling new products on the net from a "real" shop for slightly over cost are shooting themselves in the head in the long run.I also applaud the distributors who will not sell to basement operators.And when I find out that a distributor IS selling to a basement operator, then they get no more business from me.About a year or so ago, a distributor made a mistake. They sent my box to another account. They sent me the other account's invoice. I noted on the invoice that this guy was receiving a better wholesale discount than me...kinda ticked me off a little. But when my box arrived and the other account's address came from a UPS residential zone....well that was it for that distributor. I was doing 20 - 25,000 dollars a year with them. (I know, in the greater scheme of things, that's not much business.)So this guy is selling out of his basement and he gets a better discount than me??? There's some hobby shop rage from the other side of the counter.
One Track,
I'd be a regular if I still lived in LR. (moved out in 1969). And for the record, I COMPLETELY agree with your points. I am a regular customer of Mizell's and the Caboose here in Denver. They get 80% of my hobby dollar.
When I became a part time Train Show dealer all I needed was:
1.A small business license
2.Ohio Tax number
3.Cash.
You see all I had to do was to go to a hobby distributor sign up and commence shopping.I suppose that was to easy since anybody can get a small business license and tax ID and buy their models at discount.
Oh sage and wisest of all the forum worms, tell me true and tell me quick. Just how does any internet hobby shop exist without a brick nor mortar too? Oh wise and intelligent one, please tell me quick, for I must really know this secret of the perverse. How does one do something with nothing?
Oh, and wise one, please, oh please, tell me quick, where are all the bargains to be found? Where is that golden fleece iShop that sells all for 40% off and free shipping?
Oh and sage, dare not to inform me that it be the e of Bay, for I know then though to be a false sage, that one we call oh dim of witt.
Will the net kill the LHS? Just my opine!
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Another thing to consider is that many "brick and morter" hobby shops are ALSO internet retailers! One of my favorite small local shops has a giant internet store that probably accounts for 90% of their buisness!
So this "great evil" (the internet retailer) that is "killing the LHS" is also keeping many LHS's alive!
if they choose to take advantage of it..
Scot
Support your LHS? That is a great idea, but in reality, it isn't a wise choice. Although internet shopping and mail order have there drawbacks, especially for enticing new people to the hobby, the facts can't be ignored, either.
Where I live (in Canada), the LHS is a WASTE OF MONEY. My entire experience with Canadian hobby shops has been a big rip-off in comparison to U.S. vendors, even after figuring in currency exchange, shipping, and customs charges. I am not talking about prices from the big U.S. discount stores, either.
A while back, a U.S. modeler (in Ohio) had asked if I could get any of the out of production Ertl H.O. freight cars locally. I said sure, at regular price $20 CAN each, plus 14% tax. He laughed, and said even the local gougers with old stock in his area were only asking $7 U.S.! So, I started listing some common product (atlas track, athearn cars, etc...) prices at the local stores, and comparing them to his LHS prices. Typically, I was paying two or three times what he was. When I asked the local shop owners why, they got defensive and downright nasty. In other words - the reason is basic greed. One shop tried to explain their ridiclously high prices by saying they had to mark up 50% over (addvertised) U.S. prices so they could make a profit! Like as if I didn't know they get a minimum 20% discount on product already! I even had one shop owner try to charge an additional 25% fee for ordering from the Walther's catalogue, above his already inflated prices! With policies like that, they won't be getting much business from me.
bearman wrote: riogrande5761 wrote:The irony is that so many of the brick and morter stores have closed or are closing because of the difficulty in making it. The hobby dealers that do survive have to use mail order and internet sales to survive.There's at least one bricks and mortar place in this town that is doing very well without mailorder or internet sales, and it is not a hobby store, just a train store. It will honor Walther's sales prices and gives a 10% discount for every 100$ spent at the place. 18 months ago it tripled it's floor space, so business can't be too bad.
riogrande5761 wrote:The irony is that so many of the brick and morter stores have closed or are closing because of the difficulty in making it. The hobby dealers that do survive have to use mail order and internet sales to survive.
There's at least one bricks and mortar place in this town that is doing very well without mailorder or internet sales, and it is not a hobby store, just a train store. It will honor Walther's sales prices and gives a 10% discount for every 100$ spent at the place. 18 months ago it tripled it's floor space, so business can't be too bad.
Is that "An affair with trains" on Bethany Home rd? I have been there several times it is a nice shop.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Yes the LHS scene is changing everywhere.
Brick and mortar stores have more expense.
So let me pose a question here.What would be anyones opinion of a LHS that sold trains, RC cars and model aiplanes,helicopters etc?
But let's do things a little differently.You walk through the LHS door and inside you find anywhere from one to maybe several train layouts built and maintained and run by a local model train club or clubs, and these layouts in various scales, let's say for example, "O" scale, "HO" scale, "N" scale.
Now not only yourself but the general public can see what a finsihed layout looks like, and how it operates.The club has a place to keep their layout, and run their trains.But they also can help the LHS dealer by showcasing some of his equipment, and hopefully draw a larger number of customers through the door, and people would hopefully be more willing to purchase from this LHS, and if its sales volume stayed high, it could afford to offer lower prices.
Perhaps the club could work out a low cost rental deal with the LHS, because at the same time, the LHS has a layout or layouts his customers can see, watch, and possibly participate in.
Hopefully the LHS would increase his sales through such a plan.
But not just that, the personal service that internets sales lacks.
If you purchase on the internet, plus shipping, and if something is wrong with the product, you have to send it back. More shipping costs plus the time involved , and you are without this piece of equipment until a replacement arrives.
A LHS can handle this kind of service more effectively, and usually quicker, if they have another unit in stock.
Now let's also say that the dealer offers the club a lower price on what they but,but by being able to "show and tell" the public , the LHS sales volume goes up.
People that come through the door can now see more than just trains in display cases or in boxes, and maybe the train club will be able to effectively recruit more members into it's ranks.
But at the same time this LHS also has internet sales, and does an effective business.
But at the same time, this LHS also stays up with the latest changes in RC airplanes, cars, helis, etc.
I think my approach might just work.
I welcome other opinions and ideas.
TheK4Kid