Ive seen Hobby Shops get grumpy but rage? Not yet.
Usually the thunder and lightning comes from the spouse, HOW MUCH FOR THAT TINY THING?!
I'll play the music to ease the pain of honey do jobs lol.
I used to work as a Cashier years ago and understand sometimes customers who come into the store with plans to be very difficult. No more cashiering for me. I remember the last time... Credit Card taken, 10 dollars please, do you have another credit card or cash?
Boy do they fly into a rage when 10 people waiting in line thinks this one is too poor to pay 10 dollars in gas.
For me, hobby shops are fun to visit, get ideas and advice and to kill time (when I have it). But to buy from, I don't think so. I'm sorry, but I have numerous reasons not to buy from the LHS which echoes those of others previously posted.
First, I agree that there are certain items that buying them from the LHS makes perfect sense. Usually they're inexpensive items like paint, brushes, glue, etc. But when it comes to higher priced items like rolling stock, engines, DCC systems and the sort, I find that I can get them cheaper and faster from online stores. That's the bottom line.
Cheaper because of lower overhead costs incurred by online vendors. Yes, some online vendors charge inflated shipping costs to compensate for the discounts they offer but a little research goes a long way. I have a short list of online vendors that I can choose from that I know will combine shipping on everything that I buy from them. When totaled, the final price is usually well below what the LHS would've charged me.
Faster because my LHS doesn't carry many of the items that I like. In fact, they don't keep very much in stock at all anymore. An example of this is Atlas RTR Pressureaide Centerflow hoppers in my favorite roadnames, they simply don't carry them. They will however order them and mark up the price, of course. I can just as easily order it myself, can't I?
LHS's are great for impulse buyers when they actually have something that you "just gotta have right now". But aside from that...Sorry.
I really like TheK4Kid's idea however, 17 posts back. But, I'm not sure that would even be enough for an LHS to survive today's proliferation of maistream e-commerce.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
jktrains wrote: The internet only, eBay type sellers are what is killing the local hobby store with a physical location. It's even more of a threat than people who are train show only vendors. As a prior post said, the local hobby shop with a physical location has made a significant investment and put capital at risk. They have rent, utilities etc that must be paid that you won't incur creating an unfair advantage. Those people who continually post on this forum about how they will never pay 'retail' for anything because they can get it cheaper online are truly damaging this hobby and many hobbies in general. As a young teen I can remember planning the 'big' trip to the hobby store when I would ride my bike to the local shop. I spent my hard earned money on Athearn & MDC shake the box kits and other things like plastic models or model rockets and engines. Nowadays, kids can't do that. The brick and mortar stores are few and far between, having been slowly killed off by e-stores that don't have to pay the same fixed costs.
The internet only, eBay type sellers are what is killing the local hobby store with a physical location. It's even more of a threat than people who are train show only vendors. As a prior post said, the local hobby shop with a physical location has made a significant investment and put capital at risk. They have rent, utilities etc that must be paid that you won't incur creating an unfair advantage. Those people who continually post on this forum about how they will never pay 'retail' for anything because they can get it cheaper online are truly damaging this hobby and many hobbies in general. As a young teen I can remember planning the 'big' trip to the hobby store when I would ride my bike to the local shop. I spent my hard earned money on Athearn & MDC shake the box kits and other things like plastic models or model rockets and engines. Nowadays, kids can't do that. The brick and mortar stores are few and far between, having been slowly killed off by e-stores that don't have to pay the same fixed costs.
I do a lot of model railroad shopping by email, but price is not usually the issue. Instead I find that my LHS usually does not have that particular item that I'm looking for. There are only two hobby shops near where I live that specalize in model trains. And they mainly stock HO and O27 equipment, with a smattering of N scale, because that's where the market is. Usually what they have on the shelf is not what I'm looking for.
And yes, they will order it for me, but my experience has been that I can find it and get it from an Internet HS faster than they can get it from their supplier. Case in point, last summer I wanted to order an N-scale track cleaning car and asked my LHS to order it for me. After a month it still hadn't shown up. The clerk checking the (handwritten) order ticket consulted his microfiche and discovered the order had rejected because the specific road name I'd requested was out of stock. So we reordered it with an alternate roadname and after another 2 - 3 weeks it finally came. I do continue to patronize my LHS, for paint, glue, common tools, etc. But more often than not if I need something particular, it's out to the web for me.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there. Selling well-priced items in a volume is how large chains make their money. It may be worth it for the dealer to consider selling only one item that is set at a pricepoint that just covers cost and has marginal profit and be so competitively priced that everyone wants to buy it off of them. This then creates lots of revenue which can be used to offset lowering the cost of the other items in his store, thus causing those items to be attractively priced and increasing sales there as well.
You can sell anything for the right price. We just sold our condo in only 8 hours on the market. We needed a quick sale and so priced accordingly... it cost us about $15,000 to do this in lost profit, but the $30,000 that we ended up taking away paid the down payment on our current house which we wouldn't have gotten if we waited to sell at a higher price. The three other similar units for sale sold months after us because they wanted more $.
If I knew of a vendor that sold something very cheaply because he sold lots, then I'd buy it that way. If that vendor was the LHS, then I'd buy it from him.
So, in conclusion , I support both types of business. In this day and age just doing the status quo won't be enough. It takes some ingenuity to stay ahead of the competition and if it means using the internet then so be it. I challenge any hobby shop to do better, internet or otherwise. If you do what you've always done, then you will have what you've always had. If you do different, then you will have different (Dr. Phil!).
Just my 2 or 3 or 5 cents!
I used to spend more at my LHS, but like others I've found the prices were alot higher and on top of that I would have to order most of what I like because the stuff I like isn't normally stocked. I also sold alot of stuff on consignment and then bought stuff there with the profits. One day the owner said it wasn't worth his while to sell the consigned stuff and refused to do it anymore stating that I didn't buy enough stuff and apparently was mail ordering instead. My interpretation was he resented the fact that mail order was taking away business from him so he wasn't going to "help" me anymore. What he did was shoot himself in the foot because everything I consigned, sold. All the profits were spent at the shop. That may have not been huge amounts but it was something. At the time my income was low so I had to save where I could. Since then I my income has dramatically risen and so has my expenditures. I have learned to sell on Ebay so I my proceeds are higher from the sales than otherwise at the LHS.
Sure, its nice to be able to browse stuff on the shelf, but ultimately for me, the LHS looses its appeal when the prices are alot higher, things I like aren't regularly stocked, and the people you have to deal with often have attitudes which turn you away rather than encourage you to do business. Not all places are like that. The place I regularly deal with now for several years has a store front in another state, and has nice prices too. So it IS possible to have a brick and mortor store and offer nice prices.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
The way I do business with LHS's/online suppliers is the following, & I'm sure many do the same.
There are 4 LHS's within a 30 mile radius of me (to my knowledge). The closest one (in town here) is quite small & varied with hobby products. Their model train line has very little to choose from, virtually all stuff of the starter train set variety, & I don't even bother with them.
The 2nd is about 10 miles away, & I usually go to him for Poly Scale paint,Microsol/Microset/Solvaset (when he has them in stock). He has a few Walthers kits, but mostly Athearn BBs, some of which have been on his shelf for years. (He's a good fella to deal with, but his shop is in an affluent city, & gets most of his business with his Thomas line, which a lot of well off parents patronize-I can't blame him-go where the money is.)
The 3rd is about 30 miles away, & exclusively trains. Some kits Walthers/Athearn, but a treasure trove for detailing parts. (also has a model RR in the shop) Great fella to deal with-I was in need of a Red Caboose detail part this past winter, & when I went on the website to order, they had a $20 minimum order as I recall. The owner said, NP, he put it in for me from the shop. (still waiting though (grr) Red Caboose is spinning it's wheels as to getting more parts put out from what he told me on my last visit) But a good shop to deal with-also does DCC work, etc-just wished it wasn't so doggone far away.
The 4th is "ok"-model RR specializing (& a layout in the basement) but their selection is very "so-so". (kinda like the 2nd above)
So what I guess I'm trying to get at is this. If I can get it quicker & easier from an LHS, I'll do so. If not, I'll order online. I maybe getting a bit OT here, but just my 2 cents.
Dustin wrote:Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there.
Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there.
Competition is fine, but only when there's a level playing field.
Take a good, hard look at those ebay prices. The super discount prices are almost always for products from a handful of companies that sell directly to certain mail order places at far below standard wholesale pricing. Walthers, Horizon, Portman, Branchline, and the other distributors that sell the same lines generally offer the same (+/- a point or two) discount. This discount is based on the MSRP, which in the case of at least one manufacturer, is artificially inflated.
When you can find a locomotive with a $171 MSRP selling for less than $50 on a regular basis, there's no reasonable way a brick and mortar shop can compete. Also, take a look at how many spots are offering these prices, which have been saved in many a favorite's list. There's only one or two for each manufacturer. How is this "competition"?
I'm not against online business, especially hobby shops. Online shopping opens up the entire world for products that may not be available at all to the consumer locally. But online shopping can't replace the hobby shop completely. Maintaining the status quo has gotten a negative connotation over the years, but for the hobby industry, there's good reason not to destroy the business model overnight just so a handful of newcomers can make a quick buck.
The internet is not going to kill all LHSs, just the weaker shops that will not adjust a little.
------------------------------------------------------------
As I have stated in the past I will not pay full price when I can it the items I need cheaper.Now IF a hobby shop wants my hobby dollars he must have a discount-even 10-12% would make me a customer after all I still like to deal with a "live" person far more then a cold computer screen.
-------------------------------------------------------------
I will not sell on the internet. I'm a "small" one person shop. I do one thing and try to do it well, and that is to have a good local shop. You can't serve two masters. I can't devote the time to keeping my brick-and-mortar shop in decent shape if I am also selling on the net. And these idiots selling new products on the net from a "real" shop for slightly over cost are shooting themselves in the head in the long run.
----------------------------------------------------------
I fail to understand your logic..They paid for their stock and its theirs to do as they will..When I was a part time train show dealer my price was 10-15% above costs and I still made money.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I also applaud the distributors who will not sell to basement operators.
--------------------------------------------------------
Its a hungry world out there.The smart ones make money by selling to "basement operators"..After all we pay with cash and not credit
And when I find out that a distributor IS selling to a basement operator, then they get no more business from me.
-----------------------------------------------------
To bad..I guess there's no room for small operators in your business world.That's sad as we need both.After all some may be supplementing their retirement incomes.
----------------------------------------------------
About a year or so ago, a distributor made a mistake. They sent my box to another account. They sent me the other account's invoice.
I noted on the invoice that this guy was receiving a better wholesale discount than me...kinda ticked me off a little. But when my box arrived and the other account's address came from a UPS residential zone....well that was it for that distributor. I was doing 20 - 25,000 dollars a year with them. (I know, in the greater scheme of things, that's not much business.)
So this guy is selling out of his basement and he gets a better discount than me???
We both know if you pay cash you get a better discount..We both know the "deals" that can made by buying by the case lot if one has the cold cash for such"deals".Is it fair? I don't think so because that puts the smaller hobby shops and "basement operators" at a disadvantage with the bigger dealers that has thousands of dollars to spend on a weekly bases.
Think of it like this..Where a small operator may order a case or two the bigger operators may order 10 or 12 cases..Guess who the distributor is favoring with a better discount?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's some hobby shop rage from the other side of the counter.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I use to go hobby shop hopping I knew several of the owners.Many knew I was a basement operator and train show dealer..Still we would talk openly about the hobby shop business and how one can not get rich owning a shop that deals with peoples free time and hobby dollars.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Ted Marshall wrote:For me, hobby shops are fun to visit, get ideas and advice and to kill time (when I have it). But to buy from, I don't think so. I'm sorry, but I have numerous reasons not to buy from the LHS which echoes those of others previously posted. First, I agree that there are certain items that buying them from the LHS makes perfect sense. Usually they're inexpensive items like paint, brushes, glue, etc. But when it comes to higher priced items like rolling stock, engines, DCC systems and the sort, I find that I can get them cheaper and faster from online stores. That's the bottom line. Cheaper because of lower overhead costs incurred by online vendors. Yes, some online vendors charge inflated shipping costs to compensate for the discounts they offer but a little research goes a long way. I have a short list of online vendors that I can choose from that I know will combine shipping on everything that I buy from them. When totaled, the final price is usually well below what the LHS would've charged me.Faster because my LHS doesn't carry many of the items that I like. In fact, they don't keep very much in stock at all anymore. An example of this is Atlas RTR Pressureaide Centerflow hoppers in my favorite roadnames, they simply don't carry them. They will however order them and mark up the price, of course. I can just as easily order it myself, can't I?LHS's are great for impulse buyers when they actually have something that you "just gotta have right now". But aside from that...Sorry. I really like TheK4Kid's idea however, 17 posts back. But, I'm not sure that would even be enough for an LHS to survive today's proliferation of maistream e-commerce.
Hi Ted,
Thanks for your support of my idea.We now have only ONE LHS in this area, well actually two, as one is quite small and trains only.Yet the larger LHS which has been here a long time, and even though the owner is a super nice guy, he is not a train guy.Much of his train stock is OLD, I mean at least 12 to 20 years old, and very little in newer train stock.Most of anything Walthers carries, you would have to special order from him.The same MR stock has been on his shelves and in display cases forever, and sometimes overpriced, even with a discount.He sells more than just trains,RC planes and cars, and it's become more like a toy store, every time he returns from some hobby expo, or show, he comes back with all sorts of knick-knack toys that are JUNK!!!This particular owner has offered to "sale his LHS to me, but it has so much old "junk stock" in it, and so many items that really aren't hobby related, I would be stuck with a lot I probably couldn't market even at COST! And he continues to borrow money to keep his doors open. Anything I might want like Walthers turntable, or Atlas track, or Walthers ready to run freight or passenger cars, I would have to order, and it usually takes longer than if I get it online.Sadly, andother LHS, Hobbyland, which still has a website, closed, and the store manager wasa GREAT GUY to deal with, he often had special sales, in-store specials, and sometimes even BEAT online prices! I purchased my Walthers 130 foot HO turntable from him BELOW the BEST PRICE I saw online! I purchased a lot of my HO rolling stock from him, as he always had "new stock" on the shelves every time I went in to his store.Sometimes, he'd see me looking at an item, and would approach me, and tell me he could give me a "better price" on it, and I never had to "barter" with him.9 out of 10 times he BEAT or MATCHED online prices, and even after state sales tax, I was often within pennies of what I would have paid online, and I had it right then and there, no waiting etc.
When I go in the now existing LHS, I hardly ever see any new stock of any kind.Though he does well in RC cars and helicopters and some RC airplanes.The sad thing is I would like to continue to support him, but it's a 20 mile drive into town for me, and he hardly ever has anything new on his shelves.I can stay home, save gas, save time, and order online, and get most of what I want not only quicker than ordering through the LHS, but most of the time at less cost.I see the problem with this LHS as being mismanaged in a time of a changing enviroment. I used to be an over-the-road truck driver and I often visited hobby shops in distant cities, and have seen some really great shops, and kind of took ideas from all of the best of them, and had great conversations with the owners and sales folk in many of them.I usually always bought something in every one of them.As a result I now have all kinds of items on my workshop shelves to choose from to put on my layout I am building, actually more than I'll probably need, but each item has a story behind it.But I think my idea for a LHS might just succeed which I spoke of earlier in this thread.I feel that in order to survive, a LHS has to care about it's customers, offer good service, have friendly and knowledged sales personell, and be able to adapt and change with a changing business world.I don't feel that online hobby dealers will do LHS's in, but a well managed LHS will survive in a "brick and mortar store".
Some of you proclaim speedy purchase and fast delivery of items are most important. I must be living in a slow part of the USA where I send in a order to the Hobby Shop and it might be a month or 6 before it arrives. But it usually arrives without errors and in good condition without additional hassle of paying shipping or tracking the product.
Falls Valley RR wrote: Some of you proclaim speedy purchase and fast delivery of items are most important. I must be living in a slow part of the USA where I send in a order to the Hobby Shop and it might be a month or 6 before it arrives. But it usually arrives without errors and in good condition without additional hassle of paying shipping or tracking the product.
It boils down to the on line shop(s) you use..The 3 that I use my order gets here in 4-5 days by UPS.There are some shops that takes 10 days just to process the order..Even Horizon and Atlas got my parts order to me in 5 days.Neither of the not so local hobby shops can do that.
As a side note I usually order on Sundays so my order can be process Monday.
BRAKIE wrote: Falls Valley RR wrote: Some of you proclaim speedy purchase and fast delivery of items are most important. I must be living in a slow part of the USA where I send in a order to the Hobby Shop and it might be a month or 6 before it arrives. But it usually arrives without errors and in good condition without additional hassle of paying shipping or tracking the product. It boils down to the on line shop(s) you use..The 3 that I use my order gets here in 4-5 days by UPS.There are some shops that takes 10 days just to process the order..Even Horizon and Atlas got my parts order to me in 5 days.Neither of the not so local hobby shops can do that.As a side note I usually order on Sundays so my order can be process Monday.
Most of my orders are advanced reservation items. Sometimes it took two years of waiting like it did for a PCM P7 class pacific. I canceled that one and use the funds towards a set of E units from Proto availible now or nearly so.
Everyday items like paints etc those are availible at either store or very soon after asking for it.
Maybe 5 years ago, I ordered some things online from IHC, and they took several months to "partialy" fill my order, when I got my partial order, the rest of it was on "back order", though they showed on their site that they had the items in stock.
Then one day about 3 years later, I got a kit I ordered from them, but had forgot about it.
The rest of my order on the new receipt was "still" on backorder.I haven't ever ordered anything from them since and never will again!
They have absolutely the "WORST SERVICE" of any online hobby business I have ever dealt with!!!!
TheK4Kid wrote:Maybe 5 years ago, I ordered some things online from IHC, and they took several months to "partialy" fill my order, when I got my partial order, the rest of it was on "back order", though they showed on their site that they had the items in stock.Then one day about 3 years later, I got a kit I ordered from them, but had forgot about it.The rest of my order on the new receipt was "still" on backorder.I haven't ever ordered anything from them since and never will again!They have absolutely the "WORST SERVICE" of any online hobby business I have ever dealt with!!!!
K4, great example of how to make something with nothing! Looks like all that was made here was an upset, highly dissatisfied customer. Joe Daddy had the exact same issue with Internet Hobbies, only it took just 90 days to fill my order. Lesson learned!
Joe
pilot wrote:I shop where I get what I want, when I want it, at the price I want. All venues are open to me. LHS, wholesaler, Ebay, train shows, any and all venues. I buy the "best" without any artificial rules about "who to support" where it is made or nonsense like that. Just find what I want, wherever it is, and buy it.
Dustin wrote: Competition is what drives a successful economy. In order to stay one step ahead of the competition one has to be creative and think outside the box. The guy who sells me a piece of 30" atlas code 55 flex-track for $3.75 for example will likely go out of business if he continues to do so. If Internet sales are cheaper, then that is where my dollar will go. If the local hobbyshop offers a decently set price-point on an item then I'd get it there. This is an expensive hobby for sure and every $ saved can definately be used somewhere else on the layout. Now, if the hobby shop dealer lowered the price of the flextrack by $1.00 a piece I would get more for my dollar at his store and would thus buy something else with my savings at the store while I was there. Selling well-priced items in a volume is how large chains make their money. It may be worth it for the dealer to consider selling only one item that is set at a pricepoint that just covers cost and has marginal profit and be so competitively priced that everyone wants to buy it off of them. This then creates lots of revenue which can be used to offset lowering the cost of the other items in his store, thus causing those items to be attractively priced and increasing sales there as well. You can sell anything for the right price. We just sold our condo in only 8 hours on the market. We needed a quick sale and so priced accordingly... it cost us about $15,000 to do this in lost profit, but the $30,000 that we ended up taking away paid the down payment on our current house which we wouldn't have gotten if we waited to sell at a higher price. The three other similar units for sale sold months after us because they wanted more $. If I knew of a vendor that sold something very cheaply because he sold lots, then I'd buy it that way. If that vendor was the LHS, then I'd buy it from him. So, in conclusion , I support both types of business. In this day and age just doing the status quo won't be enough. It takes some ingenuity to stay ahead of the competition and if it means using the internet then so be it. I challenge any hobby shop to do better, internet or otherwise. If you do what you've always done, then you will have what you've always had. If you do different, then you will have different (Dr. Phil!).Just my 2 or 3 or 5 cents!
I skipped the the 2 center pages so what I am posting more than likely will have no meaning. But SUPPORT YOUR LHS!
LHS is a dieing breed, I see it at my HLS one of the best in the U S I will add. K-10 Trains mark up is so little I feel bad about paying what I do at times. I finaly think I got him to start selling on the internet. I gave him my E-bay acoount to use as his own so he can buy and watch what is selling. I will do the packing and shipping for free (not the cost just the labor) just to make sure this great LHS does not go under. Owner has helped so much on my quest I feel I owe him.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken wrote: I skipped the the 2 center pages so what I am posting more than likely will have no meaning. But SUPPORT YOUR LHS!
Ken,
You really haven't missed much; the last few posts tells the tale pretty clearly. Your post has as much meaning as anyone elses.
LHS is a dieing breed, I see it at my HLS one of the best in the U S I will add. K-10 Trains mark up is so little I feel bad about paying what I do at times. I finaly think I got him to start selling on the internet. I gave him my E-bay acoount to use as his own so he can buy and watch what is selling. I will do the packing and shipping for free (not the cost just the labor) just to make sure this great LHS does not go under. Owner has helped so much on my quest I feel I owe him. Cuda Ken
I respect and admire the support you show for your LHS and it's owner and I'm sure everyone else here does as well. LHS's ARE a dying breed. It's sad but true. Same goes for hardware stores, pet stores, etcetera. Suggesting the internet to him and offering your ebay account was probably the best thing anyone could've done for this man although helping him set up his own account is IMO, better for him with regard to building a solid selling reputation for himself. I know that if it was me, I'd be very grateful to you.
In my case, where I live, there are four [serious] hobby shops, each specializing in something different. Only two of them have a decent, somewhat complete selection of HO mrr stuff, the other ones specialize in RC cars, planes, helicopters and boats. The train shops are 100+ miles from me. I live in Naples and they are in Fort Lauderdale (look at a map). There's about 76 miles of swamp between here and there.
The LHS here in Naples is a train shop, but not HO. Yes, they carry some HO items, but most of what I prefer would have to be ordered. Maybe, I'd buy from them if they carried the things that I like and was looking for, but they don't. They'll be alright though, they sell a lot of RC and Lionel.
BTW, where have you been hiding? I haven't seen a post of yours in awhile. Not to suggest that you haven't been logged in anytime lately, just that we haven't shared the same thread in quite some time. It's good to see you're still around and seemingly doing well.
Well there are certainly a lot of short-sighted folks in the world.
This thread kinda got off topic from the OP, and admittedly I didn't help that any.
If you want to hear it, I can address many of the issues brought up about LHSs right here in this thread, or I can start a new post.
However, I have to be ever mindful that anything I say abour a local train shop is of course going to be mainly based on what I see in my own store...and I am always aware that it's hard to explain some things without that explanation coming off as advertising.
I'll be glad to tell you all why LHSs need to survive, and it's got nothing to do with me needing an income from this store.
But quite frankly, I sliced my finger open this morning, it's still throbbing...and so I imagine this is all I'm gonna post for today! Be careful with those axes boys!
One Track Mind wrote: Well there are certainly a lot of short-sighted folks in the world.This thread kinda got off topic from the OP, and admittedly I didn't help that any.If you want to hear it, I can address many of the issues brought up about LHSs right here in this thread, or I can start a new post.However, I have to be ever mindful that anything I say abour a local train shop is of course going to be mainly based on what I see in my own store...and I am always aware that it's hard to explain some things without that explanation coming off as advertising.I'll be glad to tell you all why LHSs need to survive, and it's got nothing to do with me needing an income from this store. But quite frankly, I sliced my finger open this morning, it's still throbbing...and so I imagine this is all I'm gonna post for today! Be careful with those axes boys!
I suspect you and I could exchange a lot of hard facts from both sides of the counter..
cudaken wrote: I skipped the the 2 center pages so what I am posting more than likely will have no meaning. But SUPPORT YOUR LHS! LHS is a dieing breed, I see it at my HLS one of the best in the U S I will add. K-10 Trains mark up is so little I feel bad about paying what I do at times. I finaly think I got him to start selling on the internet. I gave him my E-bay acoount to use as his own so he can buy and watch what is selling. I will do the packing and shipping for free (not the cost just the labor) just to make sure this great LHS does not go under. Owner has helped so much on my quest I feel I owe him. Cuda Ken
Ken,That is a two way street that many LHS owners has made into a one way street...I been in shops that had excellent service and discount prices..I been in full price hobby shops where the owner was grumpy,rude and could care less if I bought anything.
Then theres the shop I shall call "Bubbas".
You walk into his shop and you are greeted by old "Fido" that makes you feel welcome by jumping up on you and by standing on his hind legs he looks you in the eye just before he/she plants a slobbering kiss on your face.Then you proceed to look over the stock and some prices could range from $5.98 to 6.49 for the same item..You see "Bubba" didn't bother to update his prices.You ask "Bubba" if he has this or that item in stock and without removing his eyes from the ball game on the 13" TV he merely points(usually with the hand holding the beer) and mutters "over there".One time he pointed at me or through me..
When you pay for your items,he puts down his beer gives your total his 10% discount returns your change,bags your goods mumbles his "Thanky" and returns to the TV.
Old Bubba closed his small(but,well stocked) shop and retired in 2005 and died last year at the age of 75.He was one of a kind.
BRAKIE wrote:...Then theres the shop I shall call "Bubbas".You walk into his shop and you are greeted by old "Fido" that makes you feel welcome by jumping up on you and by standing on his hind legs he looks you in the eye just before he/she plants a slobbering kiss on your face.Then you proceed to look over the stock and some prices could range from $5.98 to 6.49 for the same item..You see "Bubba" didn't bother to update his prices.You ask "Bubba" if he has this or that item in stock and without removing his eyes from the ball game on the 13" TV he merely points(usually with the hand holding the beer) and mutters "over there".One time he pointed at me or through me..When you pay for your items,he puts down his beer gives your total his 10% discount returns your change,bags your goods mumbles his "Thanky" and returns to the TV.Old Bubba closed his small(but,well stocked) shop and retired in 2005 and died last year at the age of 75.He was one of a kind.
...
I have been in a couple of shops like that. I love 'em. It's like a museum some of the merchandise is so old.
Enjoy
Paul
The reality is that a successful B&M store will be more successful with an internet presence. The other reality is that a poorly run store will fail, whether on the corner or on-line.
Walther's has an interest in supporting LHS's, but it's first obligation should be to get product into the hands of consumers. The Internet isn't going away. It's getting bigger by the minute, and WKW would be damn fools to cut off an e-tailer. What they should do is request a business plan, and maybe even assist with the development of same.
I live a fair distance from any decent hobby retailers. By the time I calculate the cost of gas, I'm better off paying shipping. When I calculate not having to pay Maryland their pound of flesh sales tax, I'm way better off shopping in California from the comfort of my office chair.
But there are times when I'm in the middle of a project, and I have to go get some rail joiners or a bottle of glue, so off to the local for some basic supplies. As much as I hate paying $4 for something I know I can get for $2.50, that's a small pill to swallow when the need is immediate. The same shop has some nice stuff, but all of it is at list price, so there it sits. Then the owner complains that no one buys N scale, or no one buys model cars. Actually, everyone's buying them, just not from HIM!
I guess the bottom line is Walther's needs to retool their policy to meet the demands of a changing market.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
I agree with On30fransisco about poor supply.
Its also hard to support your LHS when its 90miles (or more) away, sadly for most modelers living outside major urban areas, there simply are no hobby shops, and even in the urban areas, the ones that do exist are often in reality poorly stocked, if at all. In my scale G, its even worse, for most large scalers that live the rural lifestyle, its internet, or nothing. I can actually count the major large scale supply stores in the entire country on both my hands, so for us the LHS scene is always going to be sparce at best.
We (large scalers) for the most part have just accepted the internet as the primary source for point of purchase, it has been such since the earliest days. Some hardcore HO/N LHSs just simply wouldnt carry any of it early on. Any that did only carried LGB, no other brands.
I'm lucky enough to live close enough (10-30minute drive) to either a hobby shop that stocks some large scale stuff or an online seller who also has a storefront operation, but the one dedicated LHS train store closest to me (a famously HO/N place) has a pitiful supply of large scale, all LGB and full MSRP at that! It just sites there. Why would I pay full MSRP when for a short drive I can buy from a store that will match any advertised internet price? Now the LHS does get an awful lot of my $$ for scratchbuilding stock/detail parts/books/paints/etc.
The other LHS (major R/C place) near me has the crappiest selection of the most generic bland bottom feeder Bachmann/Lifelike/ModelPower HO/N crappola stuff I've ever seen...
...yet amazingly they think they are "well stocked".
Have fun with your trains
I'm sure we'll all enjoy the below wholesale prices at your eventual going out business sale.
One Track Mind wrote:The internet is not going to kill all LHSs, just the weaker shops that will not adjust a little.I will not sell on the internet. I'm a "small" one person shop. I do one thing and try to do it well, and that is to have a good local shop. You can't serve two masters. I can't devote the time to keeping my brick-and-mortar shop in decent shape if I am also selling on the net. And these idiots selling new products on the net from a "real" shop for slightly over cost are shooting themselves in the head in the long run.I also applaud the distributors who will not sell to basement operators.And when I find out that a distributor IS selling to a basement operator, then they get no more business from me.About a year or so ago, a distributor made a mistake. They sent my box to another account. They sent me the other account's invoice. I noted on the invoice that this guy was receiving a better wholesale discount than me...kinda ticked me off a little. But when my box arrived and the other account's address came from a UPS residential zone....well that was it for that distributor. I was doing 20 - 25,000 dollars a year with them. (I know, in the greater scheme of things, that's not much business.)So this guy is selling out of his basement and he gets a better discount than me??? There's some hobby shop rage from the other side of the counter.
Newyorkcentralfan wrote: I'm sure we'll all enjoy the below wholesale prices at your eventual going out business sale. One Track Mind wrote:The internet is not going to kill all LHSs, just the weaker shops that will not adjust a little.I will not sell on the internet. I'm a "small" one person shop. I do one thing and try to do it well, and that is to have a good local shop. You can't serve two masters. I can't devote the time to keeping my brick-and-mortar shop in decent shape if I am also selling on the net. And these idiots selling new products on the net from a "real" shop for slightly over cost are shooting themselves in the head in the long run.I also applaud the distributors who will not sell to basement operators.And when I find out that a distributor IS selling to a basement operator, then they get no more business from me.About a year or so ago, a distributor made a mistake. They sent my box to another account. They sent me the other account's invoice. I noted on the invoice that this guy was receiving a better wholesale discount than me...kinda ticked me off a little. But when my box arrived and the other account's address came from a UPS residential zone....well that was it for that distributor. I was doing 20 - 25,000 dollars a year with them. (I know, in the greater scheme of things, that's not much business.)So this guy is selling out of his basement and he gets a better discount than me??? There's some hobby shop rage from the other side of the counter.
That is a tad harsh there friend. I happen to go to this store locally and find no reason for him to be going out of business any time soon.
vsmith wrote:I agree with On30fransisco about poor supply. Its also hard to support your LHS when its 90miles (or more) away, sadly for most modelers living outside major urban areas, there simply are no hobby shops, and even in the urban areas, the ones that do exist are often in reality poorly stocked, if at all. In my scale G, its even worse, for most large scalers that live the rural lifestyle, its internet, or nothing. I can actually count the major large scale supply stores in the entire country on both my hands, so for us the LHS scene is always going to be sparce at best.We (large scalers) for the most part have just accepted the internet as the primary source for point of purchase, it has been such since the earliest days. Some hardcore HO/N LHSs just simply wouldnt carry any of it early on. Any that did only carried LGB, no other brands.I'm lucky enough to live close enough (10-30minute drive) to either a hobby shop that stocks some large scale stuff or an online seller who also has a storefront operation, but the one dedicated LHS train store closest to me (a famously HO/N place) has a pitiful supply of large scale, all LGB and full MSRP at that! It just sites there. Why would I pay full MSRP when for a short drive I can buy from a store that will match any advertised internet price? Now the LHS does get an awful lot of my $$ for scratchbuilding stock/detail parts/books/paints/etc. The other LHS (major R/C place) near me has the crappiest selection of the most generic bland bottom feeder Bachmann/Lifelike/ModelPower HO/N crappola stuff I've ever seen......yet amazingly they think they are "well stocked".
Well said. Although I live in San Francisco, our LHSs, with the exception of one in Santa Clara, stock very little Large Scale and are skimpily stocked - even on common items. I get many of my incidental supplies at arts and crafts stores that are very well stocked and are much less expensive that our LHSs. Ridge Road Station, Trainworld, Coronado Scale Models, and Caboose Hobbies are my main online stores - and each one is a brick and morter establishment.
Ted I have been here and the layout section with the new bench still looking for a plain. Guess one of the reson you don't see me posting as much is I am starting to master this hobby a little. I am to the point if I have a engine problem I tear it down and figuer it out. I had to open by last two PCM's (Big Boy and a Y6-b) but they run great now. Less problems less postings. I am not the child I was last year thanks to this great site and K-10 trains my LHS.
I am helping Ken (the owner of K-10 Trains) this Sunday to set up his own E-bay account. He is very well stocked with HO (1 wall about 20 feet long of Engines from Kato, PK2's, PK1's, BLI, Atlas, Athearns Blue Box to Genies and others. Plus RC Cars, Boats and RC Planes. Boy I hope I nere go to planes. But there was this 13' long P-47 and P-51 that looked sweet. He all so has a good stock of O scale inc a Y6-B
He all so spent $40,000.00 on a drit track with banks so RC Racers had a places to run.
Far has his HO track?
Just say I am blessed to run his 60' X 80 foot bench any time I want. Plus he is a mer 2 miles from my houes.
As far as my account, not bad with only one - comment after around 230 transactions and that was from a none answering none shipping seller.
His first goal is to sell stock that has not moved for some time. He has a new MRC Command 2000 DCC system, how old is that? Heck he has a Bloody Nose SD-45 Athearn Blue box for $24.99? Still not sure why I have not bought that yet?