This is rich, I guess they did not meet the lowly Chinese standards, just exceeded them maybe?
China rejects US pacemaker shipment, citing quality20 Aug 2007 11:59:43 GMTSource: ReutersBEIJING, Aug 20 (Reuters) - China has sent back a shipment of pacemakers imported from the United States because of quality problems, the country's standards watchdog reported on Monday, in the latest tit-for-tat measure over product safety.Entire news article here: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SP114047.htm
GAPPLEG wrote:And I saw an article this morning that was about chinese textiles containing high amounts of formaldehyde , Now we have to go naked while we avoid eating our trains. New Zealand had kids pajamas catch fire (chinese of course) and pajamas are supposed to be flame retardant for children.
Same here in Australia, its all over the Radio, TV and Papers, cotton shirts and pyjamas seem to be the problem over here, seems formaldehyde can cause cancer, between Paint, Toys, Clothes and Food makes one wonder what is next?.
loathar wrote:Pathfinder-Do you know what dog treats? I've got those on my shopping list for tommorow.
This is from the news article:
Company spokeswoman Deisha Galberth said Tuesday that 17 tests confirmed the presence of the industrial chemical in Chicken Jerky Strips from Import-Pingyang Pet Product Co. and Chicken Jerky from Shanghai Bestro Trading. The pet food was not sold in Canada.
Hope it helps. The entire article is here: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/08/22/walmart-petfood.html
loathar wrote:They recalled a bunch of Sponge Bob stuff today for the same reason. A Chinese official was quoted as saying-"If America wants low prices, they have to learn to deal with inferior products"
Maybe Chinese officials will have learn to deal with their inferior products rotting in containers on their docks when no one wants them imported anymore.
Nelson
Ex-Southern 385 Being Hoisted
loathar wrote:They recalled a bunch of Sponge Bob stuff today for the same reason.
And more Thomas as well as Curious George. And WalMart US is recalling a bunch of dog treats that have chemiclas in them.
Sadly, we joke about not putting our trains in our mouths, but given the litigious society we live in, have you checked out the warnings on products lately?
On gas pumps:
At fast food restaurants: coffee is hot and may cause burns. This one after a woman put a cup of coffee between her legs while driving. Not to mention suing the same fast food restaurant for making a customer fat (Dude, I got news for you 3 Quarter-Pounders at a time will do that to you.
Just thinking about the chemicals we use in our hobby, there's plenty of potential danger there. But, we don't leave them lying around for the little ones to get into.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Jerry SP FOREVER http://photobucket.com/albums/f317/GAPPLEG/
Wonder what this will do?
Prime Minister Stephen Harper and his fellow North American leaders wrapped up their summit in Montebello, Que., on Tuesday with an agreement to block the import of unsafe goods.
The move follows a spate of safety scares linked to the "Made in China" label worldwide. Unsafe food additives, toothpaste and toys from China have all been in the international spotlight in recent months.
Harper said the leaders agreed to strengthen protections for North American consumers, including a crackdown on "non-secure products entering our nations, particularly those going to our children."
The Canadian prime minister, U.S. President George W. Bush and Mexican President Felipe Calderon also agreed to ensure that security measures imposed in the future do not hurt trade between the countries.
It appears manufacturers are taking notice. Look at the big yellow words on the top, you can't miss it.
http://precisioncraftmodels.com/store/index.cfm
Teditor wrote:I was just sucking away on one of my Z scale Micro-Trains boxcars and happened to notice the warning about a chemical being in the product that can cause cancer and birth defects, along with other reproductive harm, but its OK, I don't live in California, just sunburnt Australia, melanoma's are much safer.I think the same warning is prevalent on Kato products, made in the USA, made in Japan, maybe all the plastic comes from China anyway.Please. Please, don't recall all my Kato and Micro-Trains in a state of panic.Does this mean that my State Series of Micro-Trains has an environmentaly safe California Car?Teditor
I was just sucking away on one of my Z scale Micro-Trains boxcars and happened to notice the warning about a chemical being in the product that can cause cancer and birth defects, along with other reproductive harm, but its OK, I don't live in California, just sunburnt Australia, melanoma's are much safer.
I think the same warning is prevalent on Kato products, made in the USA, made in Japan, maybe all the plastic comes from China anyway.
Please. Please, don't recall all my Kato and Micro-Trains in a state of panic.
Does this mean that my State Series of Micro-Trains has an environmentaly safe California Car?
Teditor
Everyone seems to have conveniently passed over my comments, I worked in the Asbestos Industry for nine years hand making race car disc brake pads, I think a little lead is the least of my worries, think back on a lot of things you have done by choice. It's only legislation that makes us worry now.
SteamFreak wrote: grayfox1119 wrote:In the meantime, don't lick your locomotives, cars, or vehicles, don't even kiss them goodnight!!Not to worry. I stopped doing that after I showed up at work with a grab iron between my teeth. Boy, was my face red. I think the primary concern is the lead content of the toys, since children are more apt to put things in their mouths, and more susceptible to its effects. The lead content of model railroad items are the least of my concerns. Heck, the locos I had as a kid had giant lead weights in them, and I'm sure I had toys with lead-based paint, and yet I turned out perfectly... On second thought, maybe we should be afraid.
grayfox1119 wrote:In the meantime, don't lick your locomotives, cars, or vehicles, don't even kiss them goodnight!!
In the meantime, don't lick your locomotives, cars, or vehicles, don't even kiss them goodnight!!
Not to worry. I stopped doing that after I showed up at work with a grab iron between my teeth. Boy, was my face red.
I think the primary concern is the lead content of the toys, since children are more apt to put things in their mouths, and more susceptible to its effects. The lead content of model railroad items are the least of my concerns. Heck, the locos I had as a kid had giant lead weights in them, and I'm sure I had toys with lead-based paint, and yet I turned out perfectly...
On second thought, maybe we should be afraid.
Of course I just wonder if the lead thing is just the tip of the iceberg sort of idea, who knows what else may be coming at us?
I think the primary concern is the lead content of the toys, since children are more apt to put things in their mouths, and more susceptible to its effects. The lead content of model railroad items is the least of my concerns. Heck, the locos I had as a kid had giant lead weights in them, and I'm sure I had toys with lead-based paint, and yet I turned out perfectly...
As long as the Chinese don't cash in on all the American debt they own, we should be able to continue our lifestyles and import all we desire. If the Saudis continue to ship us oil, of course.
The financial capitals of the world are shifting to Hong Kong and Dubai. Wonder why that is.
riogrande5761 wrote: So if Mattel had problems, Athearn stuff is even more likely to have lead paint based on the above assumptions.
Not at all. In the U.S. lead-based paint has been banned for most applications for years and those products that can legally contain lead must have clear warnings about the lead content. However, this ban does not extend to other countries and it falls on the company importing and marketing the goods, such as Athearn, is responsible for compliance. Athearn, in turn, has to look to its OEMs to ensure the products they use in manufacture are safe and meet legal requirementsand they have to obtain certification from their suppliers.
If everyone is playing by the rules, there's no problem. The certifications are on file and can be displayed upon request.
By the way, it's unlikely that Zhang Shuhong, the president of Lee-Der Industrial, would have been executed or even received much of a prison sentence, if any. Zheng Xiaoyu, the Chinese official who was executed, was convicted of taking bribes of nearly a million dollars to approve several drugs he knew were bad, including one that killed ten people. However, Zhang was probably ruined financially and had no prospects of being able to stay in business. It's likely this is what caused him to kill himself.
Most model railroad products are not classified as toys and therefore must meet a different set of standards.
So if Mattel had problems, Athearn stuff is even more likely to have lead paint based on the above assumptions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm keeping my Athearn RTR stuff and I'm not going to peel any of the paint off and eat it!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Most model railroad products are not classified as toys and therefore must meet a different set of standards. However, I know of at least one Chinese model manufacturer that is already in the process of getting lead-free certifications from all their paint suppliers. This is even though its scale models are classified by ASTM standards for ages 14-plus. Its supplier specifications call for lead-free paint because it also supplies components for toys that are classified for children 8-plus.
I would be looking for more Chinese companies to do the same. For one thing, there will be fierce competition for the business that formerly went to Lee Der (that's the company whose owner committed suicide) and I am sure Mattel will have very strict standards and conduct lots of unannounced inspections on any new vendors. These recalls will cost Mattel millions of dollars, not just in refunds, etc., but in lost business. They could also face review of some of their licenses (though I doubt they will actually lose any) because some of the properties, like Dora the Explorer, are very sensitive to stuff like this.
Truth be told, even if companies wanted to bring production back to the U.S., there would be problems because American tooling companies generally do not want scale model projects; they are too precise. A friend of mine developed some structure kits a few years ago and then spent a year trying to find someone who could make the tooling. I don't think there would be a problem with other areas; it would probably be fairly easy to find women who could handle fine assembly (not being sexist; on average, women are better at it than men). This isn't to say it couldn't be done, it would just take some time. And assembled models would be more expensive because they have to be hand-assembled; there is almost no machinery involved in any of the production steps after molding, paint and print. How much of a price difference I couldn't say because even in China, it requires more skilled assemblers and they are paid higher wages and receive housing because their services are in demand. Besides, we shouldnn't forget that American workers are still some of the most productive in the world.
tatans wrote:Just read where you would have to eat or inhale 350 toys to detect the slightest danger from these toys, how about the hundreds and hundreds of above ground atomic bomb tests in Nevada in the 50's and 60's ? Naaahh, that couldn't be harmful, could it???
As far as property taxs, I live in California and we have a prop. 13 that sets tne property tax at 1% of the buying price with a 1-2% increase a year (almost all do 1%). much better than in maryland were one year they decided to double the property tax in one year.
I was still living in CA when Prop 13 passed! That was a long time ago! LOL
I do wish NY state had a prop 13 because the property taxes here are driving people out of the state. On my former home worth about 90-100k they are between 4.5 and 5k annually. Thats closer to 5%!!!
Greg H. wrote: BRAKIE wrote: Greg,I am not not saying they/we are not working harder for things they/we want..They/we are paying more for our status symbols.You know the van,SUV,motorcycles,$175,000 home,boat,model trains and other adult toys.So,that wide vision TV comes from Japan like our computers,stereos etc.Its a matter of finding the best deals for our toys and if it comes from China,Japan or ten buck two so be it..After all our van,SUV motorcycles,little Johnnies $450.00 bicycle,little Susie's play pretties and apparel and other needful things comes first because of our status symbol in keeping up with the Jones and Smiths..No wonder it takes both parents working jobs and shopping at the big box stores just to stay even..I still disagree.Just to have the same things that our parents had, and give our kids the same things that we had when we were kids, it's costing more than it did back then.I currently live in the house my folks bought after my dad retired from the military, and with bonuses the wife makes just a little more per month than dad did while he was in, we have only 2 kids while I grew up in a family of 6, and we are having a diffacut time of it just because the cost of living is so much higher.I have found old utility bills, that show that I'm paying 3 to 3 1/2 times as much for a little less electricity & water, as my parents did, when they owned the same house. My parents never had to worry about a storm water tax - I do. My parents never had to worry about a scaled water bill ( a higher price for each cu/ft of water used beyond a certian amount ) - I do. My parents didn't see a restructering of the tax code that changed the way the property taxes were caculated so they saw the property tax recaculated every 7 years, I see it recaculated every 2-3 years, with a bigger alowable increase. Do I worry about keeping up with the Jones's and the Smiths? No way, I have my own problems, and could care less about hireing lawn care service to come in twice a week - I mow 1 1/2 - 2 weeks and if the neighbors don't like it tough. Forget about keeping up with the Jones's and the Smiths - even for just basic services, the generation of today has to work harder to get as far as their parents or grand parents did at the same stage of their lives.
BRAKIE wrote: Greg,I am not not saying they/we are not working harder for things they/we want..They/we are paying more for our status symbols.You know the van,SUV,motorcycles,$175,000 home,boat,model trains and other adult toys.So,that wide vision TV comes from Japan like our computers,stereos etc.Its a matter of finding the best deals for our toys and if it comes from China,Japan or ten buck two so be it..After all our van,SUV motorcycles,little Johnnies $450.00 bicycle,little Susie's play pretties and apparel and other needful things comes first because of our status symbol in keeping up with the Jones and Smiths..No wonder it takes both parents working jobs and shopping at the big box stores just to stay even..
Greg,I am not not saying they/we are not working harder for things they/we want..They/we are paying more for our status symbols.You know the van,SUV,motorcycles,$175,000 home,boat,model trains and other adult toys.So,that wide vision TV comes from Japan like our computers,stereos etc.Its a matter of finding the best deals for our toys and if it comes from China,Japan or ten buck two so be it..After all our van,SUV motorcycles,little Johnnies $450.00 bicycle,little Susie's play pretties and apparel and other needful things comes first because of our status symbol in keeping up with the Jones and Smiths..
No wonder it takes both parents working jobs and shopping at the big box stores just to stay even..
I still disagree.
Just to have the same things that our parents had, and give our kids the same things that we had when we were kids, it's costing more than it did back then.
I currently live in the house my folks bought after my dad retired from the military, and with bonuses the wife makes just a little more per month than dad did while he was in, we have only 2 kids while I grew up in a family of 6, and we are having a diffacut time of it just because the cost of living is so much higher.
I have found old utility bills, that show that I'm paying 3 to 3 1/2 times as much for a little less electricity & water, as my parents did, when they owned the same house.
My parents never had to worry about a storm water tax - I do. My parents never had to worry about a scaled water bill ( a higher price for each cu/ft of water used beyond a certian amount ) - I do. My parents didn't see a restructering of the tax code that changed the way the property taxes were caculated so they saw the property tax recaculated every 7 years, I see it recaculated every 2-3 years, with a bigger alowable increase.
Do I worry about keeping up with the Jones's and the Smiths? No way, I have my own problems, and could care less about hireing lawn care service to come in twice a week - I mow 1 1/2 - 2 weeks and if the neighbors don't like it tough.
Forget about keeping up with the Jones's and the Smiths - even for just basic services, the generation of today has to work harder to get as far as their parents or grand parents did at the same stage of their lives.
grayfox1119 wrote: The owner of that factory that used lead paint even though he knew it was illegal in the U.S. and many other countries, did indeed commit suicide. The Chinese government was really p***** and he would have landed in jail for a long time or worse. Now, for those of us who are old enough to remember the 50's and 60's, do you remember how many goods were made in Japan and sold here? And what did we call many of the items made in Japan at that time?Then, Dr. Deming went to Japan and introduced Statistical Process Control, and Zero Defects, etc. etc. and the quality of products manufactured in Japan became second to NONE in the world, and they still are today. Will China follow in those same footsteps? I am betting they will. China is just like America at the turn of the 20th century, we were changing from Agriculture to Manufacturing, just as China is today. Millions of Chinese are leaving their farms and coming to the cities for the lure of better living and more money, just as American did 100 years ago. The Chinese people are very hard working, and very intelligent people, but, just like any country, they have their cheats and slime balls who will try to get away with anything they can until caught.As for model railroad products made in China, Atlas, Athearn and all the other companies, are keeping a close watch on the quality that they demand and will take whatever steps are necessary to correct any deviance. Will there be some faulty products that get through? You had better bet they will, but I also know that Atlas, Athearn and the rest of the big boys will make it right for their customers.In the meantime, don't lick your locomotives, cars, or vehicles, don't even kiss them goodnight!! LOL Some of the MRR's on this forum are nutty enough without getting more lead in the brains.
The owner of that factory that used lead paint even though he knew it was illegal in the U.S. and many other countries, did indeed commit suicide. The Chinese government was really p***** and he would have landed in jail for a long time or worse.
Now, for those of us who are old enough to remember the 50's and 60's, do you remember how many goods were made in Japan and sold here? And what did we call many of the items made in Japan at that time?
Then, Dr. Deming went to Japan and introduced Statistical Process Control, and Zero Defects, etc. etc. and the quality of products manufactured in Japan became second to NONE in the world, and they still are today.
Will China follow in those same footsteps? I am betting they will. China is just like America at the turn of the 20th century, we were changing from Agriculture to Manufacturing, just as China is today. Millions of Chinese are leaving their farms and coming to the cities for the lure of better living and more money, just as American did 100 years ago. The Chinese people are very hard working, and very intelligent people, but, just like any country, they have their cheats and slime balls who will try to get away with anything they can until caught.
As for model railroad products made in China, Atlas, Athearn and all the other companies, are keeping a close watch on the quality that they demand and will take whatever steps are necessary to correct any deviance. Will there be some faulty products that get through? You had better bet they will, but I also know that Atlas, Athearn and the rest of the big boys will make it right for their customers.
In the meantime, don't lick your locomotives, cars, or vehicles, don't even kiss them goodnight!! LOL Some of the MRR's on this forum are nutty enough without getting more lead in the brains.
3railguy wrote: trainfreek92 wrote: Buy Micro Trains good old american made =). Don't forget Athearn blue box. Well they were made in USA last time I looked (which was recently).
trainfreek92 wrote: Buy Micro Trains good old american made =).
Buy Micro Trains good old american made =).
Don't forget Athearn blue box. Well they were made in USA last time I looked (which was recently).
Speaking of Athearn, I would assume much of what they have made (maybe most or all) is made in China. I've purchased quite abit of Athearn Genesis and RTR stuff and I'm wondering has Athearn had any comment regarding lead paint? I'd hate to think there would be a recall on any of this stuff, but maybe we could at least be aware of the situation.
tomikawaTT wrote:I, too, would like to see a lot more production in the United States, but there are facts that seems to be getting overlooked in this discussion:The unemployment rate in the United States is rather low.There are jobs here that are looking for workers.Most Americans today wouldn't put up with the conditions found in overseas/3rd world factories.So, if all the things presently made in China were to be made in USA, where would the workers come from - no matter whether it was an 800 person factory using pre-WWII technology or a 21st century automated, computer controlled, roboticised operation getting the same production out of 25 highly skilled technicians?Why, we'd have to import workers - aka immigrants - to take up the slack.If you think I'm going to open that bucket of worms, think again!Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
I, too, would like to see a lot more production in the United States, but there are facts that seems to be getting overlooked in this discussion:
So, if all the things presently made in China were to be made in USA, where would the workers come from - no matter whether it was an 800 person factory using pre-WWII technology or a 21st century automated, computer controlled, roboticised operation getting the same production out of 25 highly skilled technicians?
Why, we'd have to import workers - aka immigrants - to take up the slack.
If you think I'm going to open that bucket of worms, think again!
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Tomikawa and Selector published the tips of ice bergs that deserve further exploring.
The core issue on jobs and manufacturing, however, is that, yes, Tomikawa, there are not enough skilled workers to fill the jobs that are now open. And thanks to Selector, we realize that many people specialize and those who specialize in desireable skills earn more.
I believe the United States has an ample labor supply that is misused. Reading the Wall Street Journal, I understand that Chinese students are very good at memorization and regurgitation of technical knowledge, but lack creativity or the ability to adapt their knowledge to new applications.
Americans, on the whole, do the later rather well over time. But, American students (and I was one of them) are told to follow their heart and do "what makes you happy."
Following "the dream" without guidance doesn't pay the bills. And it doesn't leave high school or college students with the skill sets they need to earn a living. Math needs to be taught more intensively.
I couldn't have failed more miserably in high school triginometry and still pass, but I should have stuck to it or gotten a kick in the pants from someone who knew better -- and not just admonitions from the belching, gold-chain wearing Vietnam War draft dodger of a math teacher I had.
Now, I am struggling at calculus and choking down accounting skills to someday become an accountant, because my BA in political science keeps me below the poverty level.
The grand point, is that manufacturing can and should return, in part, to the United States when we have enough technically skilled workers to accomodate it. I believe it is doable and soon, say 5 to 10 years.
As an aside, I also happen to agree with NAFTA and WTO but with reciprocity.
If wealthy Chinese businessmen have the ability to come to my home town and buy a house on the lake or build a subdivision in my hometown, I should have the exact rights in China. Same goes for Mexico ... Or, until I have those rights, they should be denied to foreigners in the U.S. (sorry to the folks from Australia ... I don't want you to buy any more parking ramps or U.S. Interstates until I open an exotic fish farm on the Barrier Reef.)
It's all about free movement of CAPITAL, GOODS, SERVICES and LABOR. Not just a couple of these when someone feels like it.
I've said enough.
Ignatius
And a lot of Bowser's stuff is made in the USA according to their ads.
Too bad I don't need a lot of what they make and Micro Trains is the wrong scale and what can I say about Blue Box?
tatans wrote: how about the hundreds and hundreds of above ground atomic bomb tests in Nevada in the 50's and 60's ? Naaahh, that couldn't be harmful, could it???
At least they learned early on that blowing millions of tons of radioactive dirt into the sky via underground tests was VERY BAD.