Informal Poll: Current generation of modelers, competent?

[Anonymous]

Reading the strings having to do with various apsects of the hobby I am led to wonder whether the current generation of model railroaders is as competent in their modeling skills as the generation active in the '70s and '80s?

I, of course, have my view but I would like to hear what others think and
why.

Randy

[Roadtrp]

Judging from the lack of customers at the Hobby Shops I visited this weekend, I think the hobby needs every current generation modeler it can get... competent or not so competent. If the interest is there, the skill will eventually follow.

[dave9999]

So I dont have to type this all again, I copied this from the Pet Peeves topic:
Pet peeve,
Manufacturers taking the model out of model railroading with all the RTR rolling stock and locos. Pre-built and lighted structures, EZ-track. I know that nowdays people have less time to do everything,but let's face it, the more we buy the pre-built ,RTR, EZ stuff, the manufacturers are going to shy away from kit products. I pesonally like to sit down in front of the television with a quality kit, paints, glue and make a structure look the way I want it to. I could just as easily take a pre-built and paint and weather it, but that doesn't feel right. Myself, I get a certain satisfaction from knowing I turned a bunch of loose parts into that great looking drug store or roundhouse. I think the younger "modelers" are getting off way to EZ.
Hell, the generation before me probably thinks the same about kits. They had to build just about everything from scratch. Now days it's hard to find scratch building materials at the LHS. Soon kits will vanish as well. Just a thought. Dave

[Jetrock]

One thing I'd suggest is that most modelers who get past the introductory stages of model railroading eventually start building kits. A big concern in the industry right now is not enough beginning model railroaders--and RTR equipment is what brings them in, since they are at the low end of the learning curve. If we get a good-sized influx of model railroaders into the hobby, eventually those folks will get more involved and interested in building kits and scratchbuilding and whatnot--and hobby companies will respond in kind.

I see no shortage of scratchbuilding supplies or kits at the hobby shops I frequent. There is plenty of both, and I see plenty of people buying them. Some folks stay around the trainset aisle and RTR cars sections--but if they keep coming back to the hobby shop, eventually they'll end up in the aisle with the basswood and start imagining interesting things to do with them...

[Anonymous]

well im only 17 and i have won best in show for my models (engines) the past 2 years so i think i represent this generation pretty good. im on my first layout 18.5x10 and i have had many members of my club say its very good. so i think i have the modeling thing down.

[IRONROOSTER]

Very few of us start out competent, we develop skills over time. So be patient with the newer younger folks. Second, as surprising as this might be, alot of people are in this hobby because they like trains, not because they like kit building. There are a whole lot of folks having a whole lot of fun with Lionel.

Part of the fun of this hobby is doing it your own way. I use alot of RTR not because I can't build kits, I can and have and still do. I have also done some scratch building in the past and plan to do more in the future. But in the meantime I am getting the layout up and running.

Frankly, RTR is what this hobby needs to survive. If everyone had to build it all from kits, we would be in serious decline. Case in point is S scale, this used to be the "scratch builders" scale and was in such serious decline that I skipped it in the 70's because I was afraid it would die before I could get started in it.. Now it is the RTR scale. American Models has dropped the kit versions of their rolling stock for RTR and Showcase Line has always been RTR. This keeps S alive and allows the kit makers to have a market and allows me to work in the scale knowing that basic stuff will be available in the future.

Finally, who cares if they are competent. I am in this hobby to have fun - not pass a test.

Enjoy
Paul

[orsonroy]

Personally, I feel that the current generation of modelers is MORE competent than any previous batch. (assuming, of course, that we're really talking about MODELERS here, and not toy train players or RTR addicts). Current modelers are cranking out model railroads that, freelanced or proto, are far more realistic than anything done 20 years ago.

Check out the resin freight car series in Craftsman to see what resin modelers are coming out with, and compare it to NMRA contest winning cars from the 1970s or 1980s. Resin kit builders are blowing away anything built even ten years ago. Look at scenery on most model railroads featured in MR 20 years ago versus what's being featured now, and it's obvious that modern layouts are for the first time truly looking like the great outdoors.

True, much of this is due to the availability of good materials available today, but it's also due to many modelers caring what their models look like. The acceptance of prototype modeling into the mainstream has done nothing but improve all aspects of this hobby, and has allowed the average modeler to produce superior model railroads (even if they're freelancing).

[Anonymous]

I could approach the question from another direction. I believe anyone who has the desire, dexerity and time will excel at this hobby.

With that said, I myself have learned from other members of the family by watching them work. And later in life other people giving small presentations and simply buying a kit and trying to build it. Sometimes it turns out well other times the results were pitched into the parts bin.

Regarding the availiablity of scenery and products designed to fill out a scene really is awesome and makes it possible to build a convincing kit with out too much labor.

I would look at some of the very old issues of MR at some of the photos of scratchbuilt kits or even just raw materials by both average and skilled builders and really see no difference in the final result. However I would think that a proper number of sheets on a toilet roll hanging on a wall of a privy is a bit much. Even so, I applaud and celebrate anyone of any age who builds things in this hobby.

Lee

[Anonymous]

With all of the advances in materials and tools, I think that the quality of models today is vastly superior to those of thirty years ago. However, I think that the modelers of a generation ago had to have a greater skillset and be better craftsmen than we have to be today. The skill set needed today differ from those needed thirty years ago.

There are a lot of competent modelers in the hobby today.

[Hawks05]

as you know i just started. i was nervous to buy kits because i didn't want to screw up a perfectly good kit with my poor skills of putting them together. so what do i do, i started out and bought all RTR stuff. then i bought two P2K locomotives with a little assemble like putting the shell on. so i bough a couple kits. and now i'm starting to put them together. they may not look that great but as long as they turn out decent and can run i'm happy.

i'm not the most competent modeler out there but i think over time i'll begin to get a lot better at building kits and buildings.

[CP5415]

Competent? i guess that you would have to define competent.
The question is, with all the technology & sports available to people these days, the question should be asked "Is there anyone out there who has the time to spend on an excellent skill to learn & hone?"
I know I don't, not right now.
Maybe when my kids are in university, in about 16 years.

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Well, I'm 13 and just getting started. I personaly like EZ track becuase then I don't have to put down roadbed, etc. I'm mainly buying RTR's now but maybe when I'm older I'll try a kit. I've not done one yet becuase, like Hawks05, I don't want to mess up a perfectly good kit with my poor skills.

[Anonymous]

As the last post said, it depends on your definition of competent. I would say that there are as many competent modellers now as there have ever been. What I have noticed is a seeming reluctance (at least in the UK) of older modellers to use the new techniques and equipment. For example, there seem to be very few takers (at least in magazine articles) for the new close coupling systems which to my mind make a massive improvement in appearance. I've seen one article about creating an express passenger train for a large exhibition layout where the modeller acknowledged the existence of this equipment and went on to say that they hadn't tried it!

[Anonymous]

Once the Atlas forum is back up and running (the staff is on holidays), check out Sunday Nite Foto Fun in both the HO and N scale forums to get an answer to your question.

I also agree with the poster above who said that on average the current layouts are visually vastly superior to layouts of old. Part of that is due to Woodland Scenics coming along and helping us out, part is do to higher expectations, and lastly there are better techniques available now. I never did like dyed saw dust for grass, for example.

[Anonymous]

Competence, like wisdom, comes with time and experience. A person is not a competent driver the day they get their drivers license nor are they competent in their job the day they are hired. However, given time and experience a person will become a competent driver and a comptent worker.

With time and experience modelers become more competent, gaining wisdom from their achievements and failures.

QUOTE: ...I am led to wonder whether the current generation of model railroaders is as competent in their modeling skills as the generation active in the '70s and '80s?

Yes, modelers with 20-30 years experience are wiser and more competent than the "current generation" with only a few months or years of experience.

As defined, modeling is to produce a representation or simulation of something and competent is having adequate ability or qualities. During the process of producing a representation of something, i.e. modeling, we develop our abilities becoming more competent. When I read posts on the various forums, what I see is the wisdom and competence gained from positive or negative experiences.

IMO using "out of the box" RTR rolling stock and pre-built structures & scenery is not modeling it is simply putting together a scale RR. Not everyone in this hobby is in it to become a competent modeler, rather they are in it for the operations aspect or to watch a train roll along tracks in a fantasy world.

Reading the posts I find that the majority of us buy RTR motive power as we don't have a machine shop to create the neccessary parts. However, modelers take the RTR loco and detail it so that it fits their era and road to as close to prototype as posible.

The learning experiences of our now novice, "current generation", modelers builds the foundation for the competent modelers of the future. Check back on this forum in 20+ years and you'll most likely find the teens and newbies that are here now will be the voices of competence and wisdom.

Although I have been modeling one thing or another for 40 years I find new methods and techniques every time I come to the forum. Bless those that share there wisdom and teach others to become competent.

[sparkingbolt]

I met a guy i a LHS who built his first ever attempt model railroad, scenery and all. He did it for something to do while out of work on an injury. He invited me over to see it. Now you could see his apparent lack of knowledge (or care) in general regarding real railroads on this layout, such as he was running modern cars with steam loco's. I didn't critique, that's not why he invited me there.

But at the same time, for a first layout, I was very impressed. the scenery was great, with lots of forest and rock moldings, the roads appeared to be plaster or something that he applied by hand, not some pre-fab street stuff. The overall effect was quite nice, all this by someone who never made any such attempt before. I gave plenty of sincere credit or praise. I even picked up a few ideas. I was modeling in the late '70, and in the '80s

So the point being, don't under estimate the potential and current skill of the new set.
Dan

[Anonymous]

The question is rather snobish and arrogant don't you think? I'm rather offended by it. It implies you think they are not or you wouldn't of posted it. Maybe if the current self proclaimed masters would share their knowledge rather than being condesending us younger people would be better in the skills? It's like a couple months ago I got an old unpainted tarnished brass FT shell. I posted on this forum how to prep and paint it. I to date have recieved zero, I repeat, zero, 000, replies. I posted how to weather wood to get a warm gray tone and got no good usable replies. I got use this or that but none gave the results I asked about. I found the answers to both my questions at a LHS. So why don't you know-it-alls share instead of criticising? Help us instaed of acting superior? FRED

[Anonymous]

FRED,

You did get an answer to your FT shell, http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6416.
You did get a lot of very good advice on your how to weather wood question. You just didn't seem happy with their help.

If you got better info to your questions at your LHS then why don't you share the info and post it back to your original posts and help us?

Do you want to be one of the "know-it-alls", keeping the info to yourself, and won't share, just criticise?

BTW, how do you weather basswood to look like old sun bleached never been painted oak?

[on30francisco]

I believe the current generation of modelers is as competent or maybe more competent than us oldtimers. There is room in this hobby for both RTR and kitbuilders. The hobbiests of today have more choices and can opt to persue those aspects of the hobby that gives them the most enjoyment such as scratchbuilding, kitbuilding, operation, layout design etc. I buy some items RTR because assembling a kit for those items - especially ones with zillions of parts and a lot of tedious assemblies (eg. truck frames) - is not my idea of fun. I get much more enjoyment out of scratchbuilding than assembling a craft train kit. There is a much bigger selection of scratchbuilding supplies available today than there was in the past. It is true that many LHSs don't stock a lot of scratchbuilding supplies or certain items, but there's always the internet and the arts and craft stores where you can find a tremendous selection compared to most LHSs - and at much more reasonable prices.

[AntonioFP45]

Times have changed and we are operating with a different, faster paced mindset today.

While scratchbuilding is not as widespread as it once was, the art has not dissappeared. Many modelers on this forum still show off photos of models that they've kitbashed or improved.

The technology today that makes DCC and sound possible is incredible. I find it intimidating and yet, for kids like my teenage nephew, it's a breeze.

Today's generation is "competent" and capable of leading modelrailroading forward. Perhaps in different areas or disciplines of this hobby but yes......very much so!

Big 10-4 on that!

[Anonymous]

Antonio,

What's the story resurrecting these topics from a year ago? Kind of annoying to have to scroll though all the old deadwood to find something new.

I notice some of the other "insiders" doing this as well. Is this suposed to be funny? I think it would be more interesting to start a new topic so we didn't have to wade through all the old stuff ... but maybe I'm just too unhip to understand why this is cool.

Jon

[TrainFreak409]

Well, I use the RTR stuff and EZ track for now because my "layout" is on the floor. But once I start building my layout, I want to stray away from them over time to hone my skills. And then comes scratchbuilding...which I have high hope of doing one day.

Oh wow, this thread IS old. This was posted a little while after I joined.

[DrummingTrainfan]

Being in the new generation I can't say who's more competent. I will say that the lack of kits does disturb me...but not for the reasons stated. I hate the new RTR trend becuase the cost of stuff then doubles. At my LHS he has bunches of old athearn and MDC kits that are about 8-10 bucks a piece...I then look at the RTR stuff (some of which is just the kits that have been built) that are 15-30 bucks a piece. Which do you think I'm gonna buy? Which is starting to go out of production? my dad says this and I agree..."It's no wonder the hobby is dieing...how can a kid affort to spend $20 on one car?" The same applies to locomotives. I can get a powered Athearn AC4400 BB for about $40-50...the same Athearn RTR or P2K will cost me at least $80-100.

[2c]

[Anonymous]

Here are my thoughts:

Traditionally, people entering the hobby had two choices: toy trains or modeling. People chose one or the other for a variety of reasons. Both had paths had certain skills and financial investment needed to pursue the hobby. (Even if you were in Lionel you needed benchwork, wiring and a minimum amount of scenery.) Those who chose the model railroad route had many additional skills they needed to master to make a decent layout. The payoff was increased realism, more prototypical operations and the right to call one's self a model railroader. Even if all we have is a small shelf layout we take a certain amount of pride, especially if we have some scratch built structures or detailed and weathered our rolling stock ourselves.

I think some of the resentment is the perception that people can buy their way into a better layout (and the fraternity) without mastering the skills. Why take the time to study the prototype and detail a caboose when for thirty dollars Atlas will do this for you?

My feeling is that everyone is better at some of the skills than others. Those who are buying highly detailed, ready to roll equipment may be very talented in the area of layout design. Also, some people, as they age, can no longer do the detailing they used to especially if they have Parkinsons or some other condition.

Most who start off with EZ Track eventually bite the bullet and learn how to lay flex track. It is the only way to a decent layout.

[dehusman]

I guess "competent" is a subjective thing.

I think there is a lot more information out there now that is easier to find than there was 30 years ago. There are a lot more specific models out there now and modelers are more discerning on what they want.

So on one hand the awareness is much higher in the general population and the people that are doing fine modeling, modifying resin kits, etc, are producing better models. And with the better plastic and resin kits you can assemble cars that rival the work of the best scratchbuilders from the 50's, 60's and 70's.

On the other hand, I see a higher number of people wanting instant gratification. RTR instead of kits. The death of undecorated models. Plug an play instead of hard wire. People buying weathered cars. People wanting their layouts to be designed for them. People wanting a 1 page summary on how to operate with train orders.

What I see is not a lack of competancy, but a stratification of the hobby. 30 years ago everybody was in the same boat. Scratchbuild or buy a kit. Now there are more options. I see the hobby stratifying. There will be a group that are more like "collectors" who buy RTR and assemble the pieces into a model railroad and then a layer of "craftsmen" who spend their time building models. A really rough analogy would be the difference between the O tinplate crowd and and the O scale crowd.

The model manufacturers need to recognize that and be able to market to both groups. The lack of plastic kits and undecorated models is liable to drive the "craftsmen" out of the plastic model market and into scratchbuilding or resin kits.

Dave H.

[Anonymous]

That depends on which area of MRRing you're referring to. As far as scratchbuilding goes, maybe, maybe not. True, it isn't as necessary as it once was, with built-up kits, etc. As far as the digitalization of MRRing goes, I think the current generation is definitely ahead, both in openness to new technology and computer knowledge and skill.

Personally I think the question is kinda snobbish. At the same time though, I do understand the concern about the loss of certain skills in a drive-thru, need-it-yesterday society. But isn't that what this forum is for?? Sure, there are Model RR clubs, but not everyone has one near them, and some, like the one near me, have a reputation for being cliquish (if you're not a Lionel man, yer nothin! kinda mentality).

So find an "incompetent" modeler, and be a pal. Pass on what you know. But try not to come off as a know it all.

[MisterBeasley]

This is my second time around. No, not re-incarnation, but maybe it's re-in-train-nation. My layout was in boxes for 40 years, and now it's back. Not the brass track, not the belt-drive Athearns, but the rest is there.

I'm more competent than ever. I've got more patience, and better tools to do the job. I've got better materials, and better guidance. I'm having a second childhood building my layout, and I'm constantly inventing techniques for my models and scenes. I don't require instant gratification, and if it takes a month to build a scene, well, it takes a month.

I look at the Weekend and Mid-Week Photo Fun threads. If there is any doubt that the MR-types of this generation are true craftsmen, check them out and lay those doubts to rest.

[JohnT14808]

Yes, with today's electronics, DCC, tv on a flat car...I'd say modellers today are more competent. They also have more to play with!! More opportunities to try something new, experiment with weathering powders....and they do!!! Scratch build like the 'G' layout that is currently in series in the October MR. I USED to think you buy a building kit and then build the building. It's like Tony K. doesn't WANT the bulding, so he kitbashes most of the structures on the layout! That's modeling at it's best, and I'd like to think that we all do a very competent job of it....and have fun too!!

[dgwinup]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan

Antonio,

What's the story resurrecting these topics from a year ago? Kind of annoying to have to scroll though all the old deadwood to find something new.

I notice some of the other "insiders" doing this as well. Is this suposed to be funny? I think it would be more interesting to start a new topic so we didn't have to wade through all the old stuff ... but maybe I'm just too unhip to understand why this is cool.

Jon

Jon,
I don't remember when I joined this forum, but it was probably less than a year ago. That being the case, I don't mind much when someone bumps an old thread to the top. Many of them are of no particular interest to me, but in most cases, I like to read the origins of the thread so I have a better understanding of the topic under discussion.

I don't find it difficult to scroll through the deadwood. There a many posts that are only weeks old and I have already read them from the beginning, so since each post is dated at the top, it is easy to scroll down to the newest date and pick up from there.

As to modeling skills, mine have improved considerably over the years. I started out with a Lionel layout my Dad put together. Just a green sheet of plywood and spaghetti tracks, but for a kid, it was fun. Later I discovered HO and even later, N. I was always into building something so I bought and/or received lots of kits as a kid. Didn't matter what the kit was, train, plane, boat or car, I loved building them. Stick-built planes with tissue paper wings, to metal bodied cars and boats, to motorized anything, I had fun and learned a lot in the process!

Model railroading has become an extension of my youthful pastimes. I love the kits, build almost anything (but mostly railroad-related now) and have a soft spot for buildings in particular. Most of the buildings are modified (kit-bashed) in some way which makes them unique to my layout.

So I like the history of the threads most of the time, and I find great satisfaction in building a layout and using or acquiring all the attendant skills necessary to do so. That's what I find so enjoyable about this hobby.

The only problem I have with old threads is that by the time you read through them, the original topic has changed to something different. I think those should be restarted with new threads, but sometimes the change is so gradual that finding the place to restart is difficult.

I just try to get enjoyment out of the hobby any way that I can. Not all of it has the same interest to me. I just keep looking, skipping around and finding stuff to absorb.

Am I a world-class modeler? Heavens, NO! Am I competent? Yes, for as much as I need to be to please myself. Do I rank up there with the best? Of course....in my mind!

Hope you find better enjoyment in these discussions. There's a lot there. Sometimes you have to wade through the swamp to find the best fishing hole.

Darrell, too wordy, but quiet...for now

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alco_fan

Antonio,

What's the story resurrecting these topics from a year ago? Kind of annoying to have to scroll though all the old deadwood to find something new.

I notice some of the other "insiders" doing this as well. Is this suposed to be funny?

Why in the world would you think that this is supposed to be funny?

I bring back interesting topics whenever I see that we have a batch of new members on the forum. They, IMHO, may find the topics interesting. So rather than posting a new topic repeatedly, it's easier to have them look at one that was posted already.

Deadwood? I've never viewed the scores of replies as "DeadWood"! There have been topics that I've seen in the back pages that I actually never got to read. I check it out and if the info is interesting, I bring it up to page one as my thinking is that others here will find it interesting as well.

What is the big deal? If one doesn't find the topic interesting.......bypass it and move on.

QUOTE: I think it would be more interesting to start a new topic so we didn't have to wade through all the old stuff

Wade?! Through what? With all respect to you...if this bugs you.....Then start a topic!

QUOTE: but maybe I'm just too unhip to understand why this is cool.

Never thought about it being cool..........my thought is sharing intelligent info with my fellow modelers. Can't be any plainer than that![:)][:D][;)][8D]

As always, Peace and High Greens.[;)]